Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[Mariyta]

Because he is.

[gandalf5166]

I don't like that xvart says I would cave under pressure, but other than that he's a null.

And I just realized that I never answered xvart's second question for me. I don't particularly have a read on tans either way, but that's pretty irrelevant to the fact that Mariyta's scum.

[Ythill]

Activity seems to be waning already. More posting, please.

• Vote Count
  
  4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)
  3 ~ tanstalas (nocase, VP Baltar, Exe)
  1 ~ Vi (Uite)
  1 ~ VP Baltar (mothrax)
  
  Not voting: xvart, Mariyta, tanstalas

• Notes
  
  
• With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
  
• Deadline is December 21st, 22:00 PST (GMT-8).

[Exe]

Seems odd to me that Xvart and Tans both aren't voting anyone although it seems as though both of them have suspicions on players.

I'm still comfortable with my vote on Tans. Mariyta isn't a bad lynch however, and the "I have no idea what to do," attitude is crap. Town rarely have trouble finding

something

to pursue, whereas scum are afraid of following the wrong path. Same applies to Xvart really though: I'd say both Mar and Xvart need to stop faffing about and take a stand.

FoS

on both.

[tanstalas]

Tans jump on Nocase seems contrived: Vote-hopping is not really a tell--even late game it's weak--

That's an opinion - there was the vote hop, but the real reason why I found it odd was the reasoning behind it - he voted for me just because I did not comment on Vi's case on Mariyta.

and it really seems more like Tans doesn't like being voted for.

Should I like being voted for? I'm not an attention whore.

His questioning of VPB shows this as well.

Which questioning? Where I am trying to defend myself/find out what he was thinking?

Seems odd to me that Xvart and Tans both aren't voting anyone although it seems as though both of them have suspicions on players.

Of course I have suspicious of players. I am going to make this post about you, I also have suspicions of others. In games when I get voted for when playing as town I seem to focus on those people more so in an attempt to find a hole in their 'case' on me.

In your eyes I am scum because:
a)I think that vote hopping might be a tell
b)I don't like being voted for
c)I question people as to why they voted for me

I'm still comfortable with my vote on Tans.

Until you find another wagon that looks promising you mean?

I truly do think you are an opportunistic scum Exe.

Vote: Exe

[nocase]

we are lynching tanstalas and we are lynching him right now.

[inHimshallibe]

we are lynching tanstalas and we are lynching him right now.

Disagree.

I've not played with him, to answer previous questions, but I will divulge some more later.

You should totes vote Mariyta.

[nocase]

then at least post something meaningful. i've been waiting all game.

[Mariyta]

Tans' (non-existant) case on Exe is just awful. I don't like Exe, but I still think he's likely town.

VOTE: Tans

P-edit: inHim doesn't post much that's meaningful. He's a guerrilla poster. He comes on, makes quick, short posts with little content, and disappears into the night.

[Zorblag]

@Uite, I ask about Exe as you seem to have been giving him some thought so I figured you might have an opinion about it. It was also an attempt to provide you a route to a topic of discussion which was different than the ones you seemed to be entrenched in; you seem largely to be fielding things addressed to and about you (my question was at least about something new) and I'd like to see what you do in a broader context.

I'm a bit happier with the Mariyta vote than an Exe vote now because I'm sure that Mariyta's lack of contribution to scum hunting is scummy (though the latest vote is interesting.) With Exe it's a matter of trying to figure out his motives. If he's sincere about his belief that tanstalas is scummy for his actions rather than playing to what I current expect is a playstyle then the vote's just fine; I think he's reading the player wrong but I often think that of other players. On the other hand, if he's going for an easy target and ignoring the likely play expectations it's a scummy move to have piled on the biggest, easy wagon and overstated his feelings about it. There are other possible motivations for what he did but he should probably either be town and trying to scum hunt or not town and going for a mislynch.

@xvart, you're right, it was gandalf5166. He was also the only player that I'd said anything of any not about and I think that it's pretty surprising that you'd not pick up on the context there (there wasn't all that much going on yet.) This game is showing that I shouldn't make as many assumptions for some players along such lines but I still find it an odd thing to wonder about on your part.

Why essentially no comments on how scummy the two main wagonees are? Are both wagons bad ones if you're not considering either as a place to put your vote?

@Mariyta, how strong do you expect cases from tanstalas to be as town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mariyta]

@Mariyta, how strong do you expect cases from tanstalas to be as town?

I expect him to post strong cases. Will I get them (as either town or scum)? Probably not.

[gandalf5166]

I actually like tans' post on Exe. I'm not sure why.

[gandalf5166]

@Mariyta, how strong do you expect cases from tanstalas to be as town?

I expect him to post strong cases. Will I get them (as either town or scum)? Probably not.

You literally said,"I expect strong cases, but I don't expect them"

What you really mean is "I WANT him to post strong cases"

[Zorblag]

@Mariyta, yeah, let me rephrase that. Is making weak cases a scum tell for tanstalas? And in particular is it really the scummiest thing that's happened thus far this game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[inHimshallibe]

Tans' (non-existant) case on Exe is just awful. I don't like Exe, but I still think he's likely town.

VOTE: Tans

P-edit: inHim doesn't post much that's meaningful. He's a guerrilla poster. He comes on, makes quick, short posts with little content, and disappears into the night.

Hoo boy, a woman scorned and all that.

Now, I see one thing that would constitute a vote, and one that wouldn't. The way you've ordered them makes me think you're trying to use both as reasoning to vote tanstalas. Let me show you Craplogic 101:

I don't like Exe, but I still think he's likely town.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

[inHimshallibe]

OK, so the case for tanstalas.

He's quickly falling into what I've been calling the "Everything's a Tell Fallacy." This is both good (for us) and bad (for him). This is town-motivated scumhunting, throwing any and everything out there for the town. Especially on Day 1. Everyone wants to be a super-Townie and get their darling scumpick lynched.

Read his posts. He believes in his pursuit.

[inHimshallibe]

And by the good/bad: good for us because he's revealing his alignment, bad for him because even if he might luck out on a scum, his scumhunting won't improve much because of it.

[xvart]

There's a lot more to it than that though, as I've explained in subsequent posts.

I believe you are overstating "a lot more to it." Your case on Vi is based on his reaction to your questioning of Troll's methods and Vi's defense of Troll. Normally I would agree with you about people answering questions for others, but in this situation it seems rather silly. From what I've gathered, the whole conversation essentially stems from in all their games Troll has been scum and Vi has been town. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't really a valid scum case so it is more comments for the lulz of it, so what does it matter who answers? (Not to mention that thinking Troll thinks Vi is a threat based on scum/town distribution in past games is a pretty big leap, even when taken literally). It wasn't like Vi came in saying "I'm sure Troll was thinking X, Y, and Z when he voted for so-and-so" which I would consider scummy. Also, your nitpicking and questioning of Troll's methodology is something that scum do to pick apart something trivial to look like scumhunting, when in reality it is nitpicking something that it is a null tell regardless.

As for your case on VP, you even said it yourself: whether intentional or not, he misrepped you. Does it matter if it was intentional or not? I think it would, and what do you think? Was it intentional? If you think it was, you would have a valid suspicion, but as it stands, your suspicion is based on something you haven't thought about.

And what justification do you have at this point that I'm scummy for this?

Because you cast a wide net of suspicion over three people, one of which was by relation to someone else, over trivial things.

VOTE: Uite

Because he is.

Actually, this is pretty interesting because I haven't really done anything this game. I can't imagine anyone having a town read on me right now. Why do you have a town read on me?

I don't like that xvart says I would cave under pressure, but other than that he's a null.

It is nothing personal. And if you are scum and did it, my apologies and props. You said you had been doing it a lot recently, and I don't think I've ever been in a game where you were scum. Have you ever faked a day cop as scum in RVS?

@xvart, you're right, it was gandalf5166. He was also the only player that I'd said anything of any not about and I think that it's pretty surprising that you'd not pick up on the context there (there wasn't all that much going on yet.) This game is showing that I shouldn't make as many assumptions for some players along such lines but I still find it an odd thing to wonder about on your part.

One thing that drives me nuts is when things aren't clear on who is talking to who or who is referencing what. I can't stand it when people don't cite quotes to their authors or don't quote and respond to people without referencing that person. I wasn't trying to say HEY SCUMZ for that comment. It was just bothering me.

Why essentially no comments on how scummy the two main wagonees are? Are both wagons bad ones if you're not considering either as a place to put your vote

Like I said about tans in my previous post, I haven't been able to garner a solid read on him other than his play emulates that of what I remember of the previous game I was in, but he was town in that game and I rallied a lynch around him.

Hey

nocase

:

nocase

- from your posts I'm reading that you routinely just wagon for the sake of wagoning with your entry vote (or thereabouts) so if there had been another vote cast is a safe assumption that you would have wagoned one of them? Would gandalf's claim have any effect on picking which wagon to wagon?

xvart.

[gandalf5166]

I've only faked a daycop once other than this game. I fake dayvigs as both scum and town all the time though. I find it very useful for two reasons: 1. As scum, it leads people to believe I'm town, even if I never prove my ability, so long as I give good reasons for why I faked it later. 2. As town, it makes people listen to me a lot more attentively, since they think that I can kill them. I particularly fake it a lot as bulletproof or scum faking bulletproof. The daycop, however, was really just a clever way of putting down a random vote, as Troll said.

[inHimshallibe]

I've only faked a daycop once other than this game. I fake dayvigs as both scum and town all the time though. I find it very useful for two reasons: 1. As scum, it leads people to believe I'm town, even if I never prove my ability, so long as I give good reasons for why I faked it later. 2. As town, it makes people listen to me a lot more attentively, since they think that I can kill them. I particularly fake it a lot as bulletproof or scum faking bulletproof. The daycop, however, was really just a clever way of putting down a random vote, as Troll said.

:gandalftown:

[Mariyta]

@gandalf: You are correct. That is what I meant.

@Mariyta, yeah, let me rephrase that. Is making weak cases a scum tell for tanstalas? And in particular is it really the scummiest thing that's happened thus far this game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I don't know. I've only played with him the once, and he got himself lynched pretty quick. I haven't re-read yet, so I can't really answer question #2. I wasn't paying a lot of attention the first couple pages (yes, I know, I deserve to be crucified for that, blah, blah).

inHim, stop making it seem like I'm just being a bitch. Do you deny that you have a tendency to come in, make short little accusatory posts, then go AWOL for a bit? Cause if you do, I'll gladly go find recent examples, both scum and town examples.

@xvart: Your posts are logical and solid. You seem to care about actually finding scum. To me, that says you're town.

[inHimshallibe]

Ah, but nocase never really opened up the floor for discussion. And here you come along and try to turn nocase's view of me sour. That's not playing very town-like.

[Mariyta]

Ah, but nocase never really opened up the floor for discussion. And here you come along and try to turn nocase's view of me sour. That's not playing very town-like.

Translation: Be a good girl and only speak when spoken to.

[inHimshallibe]

'Tis the way of the gypsies, lass.

[nocase]

you're both being anti-town. now let's hold hands and lynch tans.