Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[Vi]

you're both being anti-town. now let's hold hands and lynch tans.

Better idea: Lynch Mariyta instead.

Tanstalas should get some kind of reprieve for changing to a better av if nothing else.

@xvart: Your posts are logical and solid. You seem to care about actually finding scum. To me, that says you're town.

[

citation needed

]

[mothrax]

4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)

There be scum on this wagon!

$20 on gandalf
Reasons:
A1) his vote on Mariyta is pure 100% hipocracy: He claims she has done nothing of note other than complain about his fakeclaim (not disputing that), yet if you look at his iso, 8 of 14 posts are about his fake claim.
B2) The rest of his posts are throwing out suspicions of 4 different players yet doing nothing to back them up. Town make cases as to why someone is scum, not just sit there and say "Person A is scum" and ride the wagon. Hell, even nocase has presented more of a case at this point.
C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

therefor:

Unvote; Vote: gandalf5166

Mod edit: Fixed the quote tag.

[Ythill]

• Vote Count
  
  4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)
  4 ~ tanstalas (nocase, VP Baltar, Exe, Mariyta)
  1 ~ Vi (Uite)
  1 ~ Exe (tanstalas)
  1 ~ Uite (xvart)
  1 ~ gandalf5166 (mothrax)
  
  Not voting:

• Notes
  
  
• With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
  
• Deadline is December 21st, 22:00 PST (GMT-8).
  
• If my color choices look odd to you, try Sepia.

[tanstalas]

C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

I was actually wondering about this point as well, but for a different reason, between his "I'm going to check Mariyta's ISO" and his "Vote" post 3 minutes elapsed, which I thought kind of quick. Granted gandalf could be a speed reader and typist, but 3 minutes to read the posts, think about the posts, come to a conclusion then the post where he votes...

[Mariyta]

4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)

There be scum on this wagon!

$20 on gandalf
Reasons:
A1) his vote on Mariyta is pure 100% hipocracy: He claims she has done nothing of note other than complain about his fakeclaim (not disputing that), yet if you look at his iso, 8 of 14 posts are about his fake claim.
B2) The rest of his posts are throwing out suspicions of 4 different players yet doing nothing to back them up. Town make cases as to why someone is scum, not just sit there and say "Person A is scum" and ride the wagon. Hell, even nocase has presented more of a case at this point.
C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

therefor:

Unvote; Vote: gandalf5166

Mod edit: Fixed the quote tag.

This are all gandalf-town play, from my limited experience with him.

Whoops. Sorry. Didn't mean to speak out of turn.

[VP Baltar]

Are we sure nocase and tanstalas are not brothers? I've heard many of our older company point this out on many occasions. Both of them are quick to react and have no fear of pointing fingers. They butt heads with each other but aren't afraid to call out to others.

What from tanstalas gave you the sense that he wasn't "afraid to call out to others"? One of my issues with him is how he tempers all of his attacks. As far as his comment on nocase's "his", well it looks very poor, but I don't see how that is an indication of town.

My experience with mothrax (one game in which I was scum and he was town) was that I found him pretty attackable for many of the things that he did. I'm inclined to think that he plays a somewhat scummy game by default. He needs to do a bit more but I'll wait till he's had a chance to deliver the post he promised before judging too much.

What prompted you to make this comment?

Daykill: Trollblag

Somone give this guy some fuckin orange juice!

I think tanstalas had a point concerning nocase

What exactly was tanstalas' point that you agreed with?

I think I was in this game and I can attest to basic agreement to this. I'll have to go back and look specifically at his play as we progress as I was one of the people lobbying for his lynch. I do remember him being defensive and erratic, but nothing else specific.

Was he wishy-washy?

I think nocase did vote based on gandalf's claim; whether he believed the claim or just wanted to wagon is another matter

I can't tell if this is just town tunneling on something completely terrible or if it's scum clutching to what little argument they've made in the game.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

que? You actually do need to give a reason for this read, because I don't really see anything town from xvart at this point.

in fact,

Unvote, Vote: xvart

This is partly because I think your attack of Uite is odd. In all fairness, I did miss that part of Uite's post and I was wrong, so it's not completely unreasonable that he'd be bothered by that. His suspicions of Vi and Troll are much less grounded, but he really just comes across as wound far too tight for his own good rather than scum looking for a mislynch. Furthermore, I really get a feeling things out vibe from your posts rather than a 'I'm looking for scum' vibe.

I also want to lynch mothrax before this game is over.

[Exe]

C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

I was actually wondering about this point as well, but for a different reason, between his "I'm going to check Mariyta's ISO" and his "Vote" post 3 minutes elapsed, which I thought kind of quick. Granted gandalf could be a speed reader and typist, but 3 minutes to read the posts, think about the posts, come to a conclusion then the post where he votes...

It's not like this is a 20 page thread though...if it takes you more than 3 minutes to read anyone's posts at this point, I would suggest you go back to Hooked on Phonics.

In your eyes I am scum because:
a)I think that vote hopping might be a tell
b)I don't like being voted for
c)I question people as to why they voted for me

Let's rephrase this, shall we?

I think you are scum because:
a) You made a tell out of nothing, aka trying to throw suspicion on someone
b) You don't like being voted for, because you are afraid of dying...because you are scum
c) You spend more time questioning people as to why they voted for you than actually scumhunting. In fact, your only case on me now comes from me voting you.


In other reads:
Gandalf seems slightly more pro-town than usual.
@Zorblag: You do a whole lot of analysis in your posts. However, a lot of it is very safe: questioning, rather than accusing or pressuring. Are you afraid of taking too strong a stand?
Mothrax gains scumbuddy points if Mariyta is scum for trying to blatantly derail the mariyta wagon.

[Mariyta]

I think nocase did vote based on gandalf's claim; whether he believed the claim or just wanted to wagon is another matter

I can't tell if this is just town tunneling on something completely terrible or if it's scum clutching to what little argument they've made in the game.

How is this tunneling? I was asked about it, so I answered.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

que? You actually do need to give a reason for this read, because I don't really see anything town from xvart at this point.

Already did.

[Uite]

@Zorblag:

Why did you dodge my question about your false dichotomy, and are instead trying to deflect my attention?

@Mariyta:

Post #123 is just bad. AtE, ad hominem, the works. Please tell me why Tanstalas' case on Exe is awful. And please give a real answer to Vi's question.

@xvart:

Apparently you misunderstand my points. I've already retracted my issue with Zorblag and Vi based on Vi's answering for him. My other issue with Vi was him jumping to conclusions. As for VP Baltar, I'm suspicious because he apparently wasn't aware of what I had said, yet he was willing to vote me for it. That's scummy, and it's something you are guilty of as well, and to a greater degree. I certainly don't think these are trivial things.

@VP Baltar:

I agreed with his discussion of the worth of a vote. A vote is a powerful tool, and even non-serious votes can play a part in a lynch. The accusation of fluff-posting that accompanied it rings true with me.

At this point, I'm not sure who deserves my vote most, but it's certainly not Vi, so for now:

Unvote

[Vi]

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

que? You actually do need to give a reason for this read, because I don't really see anything town from xvart at this point.

Already did.

@xvart: Your posts are logical and solid. You seem to care about actually finding scum. To me, that says you're town.

[

citation needed

]

in fact, Unvote, Vote: xvart

This is partly because I think your attack of Uite is odd.

[...]

His suspicions of Vi and Troll are much less grounded, but he really just comes across as wound far too tight for his own good rather than scum looking for a mislynch. Furthermore, I really get a feeling things out vibe from your posts rather than a 'I'm looking for scum' vibe.

I also want to lynch mothrax before this game is over.

All of the above.

[Mariyta]

I'm not going to quote all his posts. Go read them. He's made 3. The first one has nothing of value in it, but the last two are fine. He makes some valid points and asks some good questions.

[Uite]

When are you going to actually answer the questions asked and provide something useful?

VOTE: Mariyta

[Mariyta]

Apparently never.

[inHimshallibe]

mothrax-Zorblag team seeming more and more likely... Hmm, are they partners with Mariyta, though.

Claimense, chica.

[VP Baltar]

Answering why you think he's town does not require you to "quote all of his posts". And speaking in vague qualifiers like "he's made some valid points" doesn't cut the mustard. Which points are "valid" and which questions are "good".

Mariyta-xvart scumteam. Good call on that one, Vi.

[gandalf5166]

4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)

There be scum on this wagon!

$20 on gandalf
Reasons:
A1) his vote on Mariyta is pure 100% hipocracy: He claims she has done nothing of note other than complain about his fakeclaim (not disputing that), yet if you look at his iso, 8 of 14 posts are about his fake claim.
B2) The rest of his posts are throwing out suspicions of 4 different players yet doing nothing to back them up. Town make cases as to why someone is scum, not just sit there and say "Person A is scum" and ride the wagon. Hell, even nocase has presented more of a case at this point.
C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

therefor:

Unvote; Vote: gandalf5166

Mod edit: Fixed the quote tag.

1. At the time, Mariyta had 7/8 posts about my fakeclaim. 7/8 vs. 8/14?
2. You've played with me SEVERAL times before, don't pretend you don't know how I play.
3.Yeah. I went to Mariyta's ISO, to see if the case had any merit. I looked at her ISO, and saw it had merit, so I voted. You just took something completely out of context and tried to make it look like something it definitely wasn't. Definition of misrep, bro. Nice chainsaw. We'll lynch you tomorrow.

C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

I was actually wondering about this point as well, but for a different reason, between his "I'm going to check Mariyta's ISO" and his "Vote" post 3 minutes elapsed, which I thought kind of quick. Granted gandalf could be a speed reader and typist, but 3 minutes to read the posts, think about the posts, come to a conclusion then the post where he votes...

She had a total of 1 post that was longer than like, two lines. I'm not a speed reader or a speed typist.

[Mariyta]

mothrax-Zorblag team seeming more and more likely... Hmm, are they partners with Mariyta, though.

Claimense, chica.

Vanilla. Juggler.

[Uite]

How do you explain the certainty with which you declared xvart town based on only two posts then?

[Mariyta]

Because he comes across as town to me. You don't have to agree.

[Uite]

Because he comes across as town to me. You don't have to agree.

I certainly don't have to agree, but that is another point entirely.

Post #123 is pretty extreme. I'm asking why you are defending him so vehemently, based on the extremely minimal evidence (at that point, only two posts, one of which you yourself dismissed) he provided.

[Mariyta]

I didn't intend post 123 to come across that extreme, but I was irritated (and I still am). I don't

know

xvart is town, but it's an educated guess based on what I know of him.

[VP Baltar]

I don't know xvart is town, but it's an educated guess based on what I know of him.

Which is what? I don't see why you are being so difficult about a simple question. If you don't have anything to back the read up, then just say so. If you do have something, then please explain so we can move on.

[Vi]

Doing this the verbose way because it seems necessary.

First xvart post is self-evident fluff.

Second xvart post:
*Saying gandalf wouldn't claim daycop as an RVS joke is a ludicrous pass for scumhunting. To quote EmpTyger, IT'S A JOKE!.
*Saying tanstalas is playing like he was in the previous game while explicitly making no alignment-based comments gets him/us nowhere.
*Pushing nocase for hopping onto gandalf's wagon in like post 5 is ludicrous for reasons I've mentioned previously and the extended questioning is likely to lead nowhere.
*Talking of which, he addresses you and your posts but clearly does not mention the obvious pressure against you in any way. I initially wondered if you were Masons with him for your reasonless defense, BUT I guess not.
*Suspicion on Uite for casting broad suspicion on me+VP Baltar+Troll has since been addressed, and furthermore if I were scum with unfamiliar good players the first thing I would

not

do is attempt to accuse all of them of being the scummiest people in the game (unless I were scum trying to bus, as Troll knows <___< ).

Third xvart post:
*Even xvart has no idea why you would have a Town read on him.
*More of the same from previous post.
*Continuing to press on nocase's first post over everything else in the game.

That's what everyone else sees.

[xvart]

I think I was in this game and I can attest to basic agreement to this. I'll have to go back and look specifically at his play as we progress as I was one of the people lobbying for his lynch. I do remember him being defensive and erratic, but nothing else specific.

Was he wishy-washy?

I just went back to that game and looked through it a little and one of the main contention points against tans early in that game was when Fate called him out on being contradictory when he said someone was scum and then said he was going to wait for someone to do something scummy in the same post.

This is partly because I think your attack of Uite is odd. In all fairness, I did miss that part of Uite's post and I was wrong, so it's not completely unreasonable that he'd be bothered by that. His suspicions of Vi and Troll are much less grounded, but he really just comes across as wound far too tight for his own good rather than scum looking for a mislynch. Furthermore, I really get a feeling things out vibe from your posts rather than a 'I'm looking for scum' vibe.

You think that calling someone suspicious while admitting that that suspicion is based on something that could possibly have been an honest mistake is a legitimate reason to say someone is suspicious? He was saying you were scum for a reason that might have been an accident. That seems like pushing a phony bologna case to me.

@xvart:

Apparently you misunderstand my points. I've already retracted my issue with Zorblag and Vi based on Vi's answering for him. My other issue with Vi was him jumping to conclusions. As for VP Baltar, I'm suspicious because he apparently wasn't aware of what I had said, yet he was willing to vote me for it. That's scummy, and it's something you are guilty of as well, and to a greater degree. I certainly don't think these are trivial things.

I'm guilty to a greater degree for jumping to conclusions? If that is scummy, why are you not voting for me? Chronologically speaking, at the time of your post, you said VP was suspicious for something that might have been an accident. I'm not jumping to any conclusions there because it is laid out in front of me: VP is scummy for something that might not be scummy.

I'm not going to quote all his posts. Go read them. He's made 3. The first one has nothing of value in it, but the last two are fine. He makes some valid points and asks some good questions.

But at the time of your read on me I had only made two posts, and the first one, as you said, had nothing of value to it. My second post didn't really have any real logic (like you said) but rather just some questions for the most part. So I don't see how you could have a solid town read at the point when I asked you to explain my read. More likely, you saw me taking heat and knew I would flip town if my lynch went through and was trying to get in front of my mislynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mariyta

xvart.

[gandalf5166]

OOH NICE BUS THAR