Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[Doombunny9]

@TM- Answer my question pretty please.

@Mod- Prod on Primate?

[PogoStick]

@HOMJ- You are NOT clear. Do NOT act like it. For all we know TM could have been roleblocked, he could be your scumpartner trying to save you etc.

Unless TM is cleared and we find out he was not roleblocked you are clear. But TM isn't clear and a roleblock is always an option. You. Are. Not. Clear.

Fine

1. Possible TM could have been role blocked but it's possible he failed cause I commuted last night
2. There is no way right now to clear Tony, but lynching me isn't going to clear Tony either. When I flip town you could easily turn on TM and say he was scum and he was trying to earn town cred, you guys throw out all these crazy scenarios, it's day 2 and this all started when emp went after me on essentially nothing and still hasnt provided a decent case on me.
3. The votes on me are weak

Emp - voted for me for essentially playing like furclow
Smar - agreed with me about emp, said emp made a weak attempt at a case that he doesn't necessarily agree with but he made the attemp and that changed his mind (WHAT?)
bv - comes out of nowhere promised to post a huge WOT and votes me cause ???
Zang - comes out of his hole every 2 days and posts huge walls of text and is the only one who makes sense, except he refuses to comment on my case on emp and why it's wrong

I'm sorry if I'm too aggressive for you guys but when I'm backed into a corner, i defend myself and I call things like I see it. None of you guys have provided good enough reason why I am scum

What I would Like I'd for you each to post 3 or 4 things I have done that are scum tells and explain why they ate scum tells to you

Thanks.

[PogoStick]

And can please one person un-vote me, DB is making me nervous cause he seems to be against me again

[PogoStick]

Whoever unvotes, it's just a coutesty un-vote til everyone provides a condensed case on me

[esuriospiritus]

Vote count/prods later today, promise. I'd do them now but I have a birthday party to go to.

[Doombunny9]

I'm sorry if I'm too aggressive for you guys but when I'm backed into a corner, i defend myself and I call things like I see it.

It doesn't look like agressiveness to me. Aggressiveness is fine as long at it doesn't get too extreme. It's more like you're pleading for people to unvote because you're "clear"

And can please one person un-vote me, DB is making me nervous cause he seems to be against me again

No need to worry. I have no reason to vote you over Emp right now. Besides, I'd like to see reasoning from other people as well.

[esuriospiritus]

ChannelDelibird replaces Shattered Viewpoint, effective immediately.

Also, I know I said I was going to try to avoid season 3 spoilers, but I can't resist using a quote from the most recent episode in this upcoming vote count...

[ChannelDelibird]

Hi guys. I'll be reading up over the next couple of days.

Unvote

if applicable.

[esuriospiritus]

[

VOTE COUNT 2.06

]

"She tricked my son with her carnal manipulations and he fell right into her vagenda."
" 'Vagenda'?"
"Like Mata Hari using her feminine wiles to accomplish her evil ends. And I too fell prey. She used my stomach to get through to my heart."

[

4

]

HopOnMyJoystick

- Empking, bv310, Zang, smargaret

[

3

]

Empking

- Doombunny9, TonyMontana, HopOnMyJoystick

Not Voting: Primate, ChannelDelibird

---

Day 2 will end on December 8th, 2010 at 10:30 PM EST (Countdown here.) or when someone is lynched.

With 9 present and alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

---

[

PRODS

]
Primate will be prodded.

[Zang]

4. did yo miss the word JUST, it wasn't JUST his 180. It was his lying also. 180 for no reason + bold face lying IS SCUM there is no way to say lying is pro-town, especially something so obvious of a lie and anyone trying to spin his lies as being pro-town is scum. notice she has not even commented on the lies or even tried to explain herself, you don't find that odd?

The JUST didn't clarify anything for me.

I believe Smargaret about the 180 and lie because she's my most town read.

5. I find it scummy that she said she used "THE WIKI", than claimed to Google it, than pointed a link to ANOTHER WIKI NOT RELATED TO MAFIA SCUM. so YES I find it scummy

Did you even check google? It's one of the first few results. 

And if you don't use the wiki, how are you supposed to know what it is?

7. no i don't consider him lying because I know for a fact that I am town, so anyone who can clear me is clearly not lying especially cause I commuted and mod confirmed all actions failed, he claims his action against me failed so he is most likely telling the truth.

But assuming you're town, couldn't TM be scum or an SK trying to get himself confirmed as town by buddying with you?

8. I signed up when I saw people saying / in for fringe. I never even saw the mod post in the thread about the game, I just said "OOH I like fringe so why not"

Ok, but you didn't look up what a bastard game is when you saw it in the rules?

9. the 2nd lie was the whole wiki thing. it was a lie you don't say I saw it in the wiki, oh I googled, oh I found it on another wiki not related to mafia scum, if you are telling the truth.

How was she supposed to know that it wasn't the mafiascum wiki?

11. well this is a bastard mod game so anything is possible, like mod said, we shoudl not try to out-guess the mod

So you do know what a bastard game is now?

And I know what the mod said. That's why I didn't post that when I first saw your claim.

I am sorry, emp has not done a single thing to help the town catch scum and you guys follow him

I'm not following emp. I've known that you are scum since day 1.

because in the game of mafia, you don't lynch a cleared person, and until somebody can come out and prove tony is lying with a CC or something, he is cleared. and he has cleard me so I am cleared,

Using that logic, scum could win just by saying that they cleared eachother.

he hasn't even really said what role he is so he could be vig, or cop, or something else and in every other game if somebody comes out with evidence that somebody is clear, that person doesn't get lynched.

But you did say what his role is. You said that someone tried to kill you last night when you commuted.

and I will repeat myself IN MAFIA YOU DO NOT LYNCH THE PERSON WHO IS CLEARED SO UN VOTE NOW IF YOU ARE TOWN

failure to unvote is admission of guilt IMO

Ok

Unvote
Vote: HopOnMyJoystick

1. I am more cleared than you or anyone else

So? You still have just as much of a chance of being scum.

Zang - comes out of his hole every 2 days and posts huge walls of text and is the only one who makes sense, except he refuses to comment on my case on emp and why it's wrong

I'm pretty sure I have or at least the major points of it.

What I would Like I'd for you each to post 3 or 4 things I have done that are scum tells and explain why they ate scum tells to you

I'm pretty sure I just did this-

1.Taking advantage of Furcolows vote for no lynch and saying that no lynch is always scummy.
2.Being reliant on unreliable statistics.
3.Changing the reasoning behind his vote on me day 2.
4.Thinking that insulting someone is scummy.
5.Calling himself a VI but thinking it's scummy when someone else does it.
6.Thinking that empking is still not scum hunting.

I'm also adding that he claimed commuter which is a safe claim for scum.

[smargaret]

Hop didn't say anything to convince me he wasn't scum overnight, so my vote stays.

[PogoStick]

Hop didn't say anything to convince me he wasn't scum overnight, so my vote stays.

why are you ignoring my request?

[PogoStick]

@ zang, your case on me.

you never explained how any of them are scum tells, because they aren't if anything they are just "bad player" tells

[PogoStick]

Hop didn't say anything to convince me he wasn't scum overnight, so my vote stays.

furthermore, after you comply to my request I want you to point out the specific thing empking said that changed your mind from agreeing with me to thinking I am scum now.

[PogoStick]

1.Taking advantage of Furcolows vote for no lynch and saying that no lynch is always scummy. -

No lynch is scummy to me because we as town do not learn anything from a no-lynch. the vote analysis is null because it isn't forcing anyone to make a tough decision like they do when they lynch somebody. there is no flip on a no-lynch so scum and town both benefit from a no-lynch, but scum benefit more because they get a free kill overnight without giving anything with their vote

2.Being reliant on unreliable statistics.

unreliable? the statistics I posted were from this site, games played on this site, games that showed when NL occured day 1, scum won more than 80% of the time. This isn't enough evidence to say "hmm maybe we should not "No lynch" anymore. Scum gets the advantage with a NL on day 1, because there is no vote analysis and late in the game, vote analysis can sometimes win the game for you, if you are town

3.Changing the reasoning behind his vote on me day 2.

sorry I just don't recall this, if you can point it out for me I would appreciate it, but how would me changing my reasoning necessisarily be a scum tell? are you saying town never changes their reasons when voting somebody? because smargaret agreed with me on empking and than later changed to thinking he was town and I was scum, this is sort of the same lines, is it not?

4.Thinking that insulting someone is scummy.

how is this a scum tell? granted I have insulted people and yes it is scummy play because there is no need to insult people, yes I do it so it makes me a hypocrite but scummy play =/= scum

5.Calling himself a VI but thinking it's scummy when someone else does it.

I agree this logic of mine is fucked up and probably wrong, but how is this a scum tell?

6.Thinking that empking is still not scum hunting.

he hasn't posted a real case, he did post a case on me and DB together, but I asked empking to provide links or quotes on the things he has made in his case and he has still ignored my request. here I will even point out my request for you - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2651167 now read from there and locate where emp has done so, I am pretty sure you will find he won't. Why would he not provide information to support his claims? I am more than willing to post links to point out scummy behavior or lies or whatever, why doesn't emp?

[PogoStick]

Mod can you add some spaces in this post ^ a space before each number would be appreciated.

Done.

[smargaret]

Hop, is the request you're referring to a request for an unvote? I'm not going to do that, because I think you're scum and I would be just fine lynching you. You've claimed, we've discussed it, we've established that it's not believable and you're not clear, what more do you expect to happen? Or are you scum hoping to take the chance to take the steam out of your wagon and redirect attention to a mislynch?

[PogoStick]

What I would Like I'd for you each to post 3 or 4 things I have done that are scum tells and explain why they ate scum tells to you

Thanks.

[PogoStick]

and that should say ARE scum tells

[smargaret]

The claim, your reaction to being at L-1, your behavior day 1 as described in my catch-up post (pretty sure there are 3-4 things in there), and your continual harping on about the "lies" and the "180" after I've responded to them/proven that they aren't. And that's just what comes to mind without slogging through your back and forth with Empking - oh, let's add suspicion of everyone to the list to, since now you think I'm scum too.

And that's leaving out the AtE and OMGUS that are scumtells but which you don't believe in.

[PogoStick]

The JUST didn't clarify anything for me. -

well guess we just going to disagree on this one

I believe Smargaret about the 180 and lie because she's my most town read.

so somebody who hasn't really scum hunted this game is your most town read?

Did you even check google? It's one of the first few results. 

why would I?, but to please you I just did. Google "commuter" and I get nothing. Google "Mafia commuter" and mafia scum is mentioned as the 2nd result, number 1 is some mafia II website that doesn't mention commuter role. I Google "mafiascum commuter" and I get the first result as being the wiki for this site. so not sure what she googled but the 3 most obvious choices I could think of to google, didn't lead me to that other wiki

And if you don't use the wiki, how are you supposed to know what it is?

did I ever say I never use the wiki? cause I am pretty sure I said this

when you look up something on "the wiki" do you use the mafiascum wiki? or do you use another one?

I use mafiascum wiki because that is where I am playing.

But assuming you're town, couldn't TM be scum or an SK trying to get himself confirmed as town by buddying with you?

it is very possible, yes this is the only thing that scares me but because he is telling the truth about me, I am hoping he isn't scum

Ok, but you didn't look up what a bastard game is when you saw it in the rules?

honestly no I didn't

How was she supposed to know that it wasn't the mafiascum wiki?

because it didn't say mafiascum anywhere on that site

So you do know what a bastard game is now?

yeah I decided to look it up on the mafiascum wiki

And I know what the mod said. That's why I didn't post that when I first saw your claim.

ok

I am sorry, emp has not done a single thing to help the town catch scum and you guys follow him

I'm not following emp. I've known that you are scum since day 1.

how could you possibly know anything on day 1? just because I played like a VI? well so did furclow and we see how that worked out.

Using that logic, scum could win just by saying that they cleared eachother.

fair enough, I guess I am not as clear as I thought I was even though I still think I am pretty clear, shocker I am in the minority

But you did say what his role is. You said that someone tried to kill you last night when you commuted.

no actually this is what I said

Omg you were gonna kill me

because my role PM said kill or kidnap, clealy we already had one kill and kidnap so I naturally assumed he was Vig, considering everyone secretly and not so secretly wanted the vig to take me out. we still don't know what role TM is but I learned later from the MOD that when I commute all actions failed so he could be something else all together.

Unvote
Vote: HopOnMyJoystick

So? You still have just as much of a chance of being scum.

in your mind I guess you have a point

I'm pretty sure I have or at least the major points of it.

I guess I will have to wade through your WOTs to see if you have

What I would Like I'd for you each to post 3 or 4 things I have done that are scum tells and explain why they ate scum tells to you

I'm also adding that he claimed commuter which is a safe claim for scum

well if you look at my past games you can see that I have been scum twice, once I fake claimed nothing and the other I faked claimed watcher, in a game with 2 watchers. this is gonna be a bit of WIFOM but when I am scum, I typically would clam something less likely to be lynched like a cop, something as meaningless as a commuter I would never claim but I guess giving this setup, it is possible scum could fake claim it. I know I keep saying it because it is true and yes I hope sometime soon somebody believes me but I am town, I am trying to help catch scum

[Doombunny9]

why would I?, but to please you I just did. Google "commuter" and I get nothing. Google "Mafia commuter" and mafia scum is mentioned as the 2nd result, number 1 is some mafia II website that doesn't mention commuter role. I Google "mafiascum commuter" and I get the first result as being the wiki for this site. so not sure what she googled but the 3 most obvious choices I could think of to google, didn't lead me to that other wiki

Or you could google "commuter mafia wiki" which is what smar said she googled

FYI- The mafia page she linked is one of the first few results (that aren't unrelated) you get.

[PogoStick]

The claim, your reaction to being at L-1, your behavior day 1 as described in my catch-up post (pretty sure there are 3-4 things in there), and your continual harping on about the "lies" and the "180" after I've responded to them/proven that they aren't. And that's just what comes to mind without slogging through your back and forth with Empking - oh, let's add suspicion of everyone to the list to, since now you think I'm scum too.

you missed the point, I was asking you to post your case as to why you thought I was scum to vote for me. everything you have posted happened AFTER you put me at L-1 but let's discuss what you posted.

My claim - is a scum tell how?

my reaction to being L-1 is a scum tell how? I am town trying to defend myself which is a typical response for town

To me the reason you gave for your switching from me to him was very weak, you even said emp's case was "weak and late, but is still a case" however I made a case against emp that was not weak and not late that you ignored completely.

how is suspicion of everyone a scumtell?

the fact is you have not posted a 'CASE" on me BEFORE you put me at L-1 and to use your own words.

These aren't firm definitions, there is some variation based on playerstyle, but as a general rule,

I consider a case to be more detailed than an accusation and to have the intention of pushing towards a lynch,

if not today then tomorrow unless the response is satisfactory. An accusation is more likely to have a shorter justification, maybe a one-liner, that the goal is reaction-fishing rather than lynching.

It's sort of like the difference between a vote and an FOS/IGMEOY, I guess. I'm not making much sense right now.

and one other thing bothers me, this is something you said

You're both being naughty boys for not posting cases; just Empking is being slightly less anti-town because I think he genuinely believes you to be scum and that posting a case on someone else would hurt the town.

you don't think I genuinely believe emp is scum?

[PogoStick]

why would I?, but to please you I just did. Google "commuter" and I get nothing. Google "Mafia commuter" and mafia scum is mentioned as the 2nd result, number 1 is some mafia II website that doesn't mention commuter role. I Google "mafiascum commuter" and I get the first result as being the wiki for this site. so not sure what she googled but the 3 most obvious choices I could think of to google, didn't lead me to that other wiki

Or you could google "commuter mafia wiki" which is what smar said she googled

FYI- The mafia page she linked is one of the first few results (that aren't unrelated) you get.

funny I just did that and guess what?

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff3 ... /mscum.jpg

[smargaret]

DB, just being picky, but Hop said that, not me.

Hop: Please differentiate your statements from mine.

1. Everything I mentioned happened since you went to L-1 because I don't feel like wading through your posts with Empking right now and you've committed 3-4 scumtells since then that surprise surprise, happen to be fresher in my memory. Also, see my first content post of the game. There's plenty of pre-L-1 scumtells on you there.

2. Your claim is not a scumtell, it is scummy. As Zang said, it is a safe thing for scum to claim, and the only (possibly) verifiable part of it doesn't confirm your alignment.

3. Your reaction to being at L-1 is a scumtell because of the delay in claiming, the sudden insistence that "I am clear!" and all the AtE and OMGUS since then (you don't consider them scumtells, I do, deal with it).

4. Which post contains your case against emp? All I saw was a bunch of "You're scum!" "No, you're scum!" "No, you are!"

5. Suspicion of everyone is a scumtell because it is leaving your options open - you can see how everyone else reacts before committing.

6. So wait, I can't decide you're scum once you're at L-2? Now, that's not the case because I'd already said I was null-leaning-scum on you, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone's read to change over the course of the day.

7. No, I don't think you genuinely believe emp is scum because I think YOU are scum.

EBWOP: Hop, the mafiascum link didn't look relevant. I was skimming google results, the second link had the word "commuter" in it, the first one didn't.