Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[DemonHybrid]

I'm deciding whether Antihero or Nikanor's replacement needs to die next.

Give me a bit to look over some stuffs.

Do you have a recent case against Nikanor? I need some updates.

[Glork]

so you're listening to glork blindly?

Listening to Glork blindly can be a pretty effing good idea. It worked for UK D2 in Sly Cooper, and it clearly worked yesterday when I told everyone that LMP was scum and they blindly followed me to his lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Antihero

LMP tunneled him pretty hard all game. I don't feel right about him. His vote on LMP is a pretty evident bus. My second (now first...) scumread past Xine.

If there's something I'm missing or you want to know from me, please ask me. I feel a tad out of the loop even with all of the skimming and pseudo-catching up and need a kick in the ass to get things going.

[Lowell]

Hahah. I take it back. Jack is hilarious.

vote anti

. I want to follow glork blindly but he's hitting on me, I think. I'll wait until he stops.

[Empking]

Vote: Anti

Why have you chosen this, rather than voting for one of the people who were trying to discredit the LMP wagon? (ie, Haylen and RedCoyote)

Glork said Anti was scum (I'd easily be willing to go with RC though.)

so you're listening to glork blindly?

I wouldn't say that but yes.

[RedCoyote]

I should note here that I feel pretty good about Haylen as town now. It took me a while to come around to it, but I think the LMP/Haylen thing from earlier wasn't distancing.

I want to go back to a couple of LMP's earlier posts though.

Unvote
Vote: Nocmen

Your buddy Antihero is for tomorrow.

I'm fine with Antihero wagon. Nocmen can wait to tomorrow, apparently some people are fooled by his "look at all this catchup stuff, aren't I pro-town (nevermind that it is completely contrived and full of contradictions/falsehoods)".

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

@VV: Your AGar case is not at all as damning as you think it is.

I don't think we should lynch Nacho or UK. Antihero is still a better lynch.

Based on the speed of that lynch, I guarantee you there is 2 scum on the back end. That puts 2 scum (possibly 3) in {Xine, Empking, RedCoyote, Lowell, Eldarad}.

[...]

Antihero is also a great lynch if we still want to go that way.

When I'm gone look at the people on my list from the UK wagon, Antihero, and sadly, Jack if you all decide to pull your heads out of your asses and actually hunt scum.

(Note: The above would be Jack, AGar, RC, Lowell, Xine, and Empking)

LynchMePls - 8 - Jack, AGar, Empking, VasudeVa, Lowell, Nocmen, RedCoyote, LynchMePls

LMP pushed Antihero hard. Very hard. Almost too hard. He pushed him before his wagon gained steam and after. I want to write off distancing here. I think it's a dead end. I think it was totally misleading. Post after post LMP wants it known that Antihero is his target. He really wants this lynch. Nocmen, on the other hand, is tagged on towards the end. Perhaps in a "crap, I better bus a scumbuddy" move.

Nocmen, Empking, Eldarad, Lowell, and AGar all catch some flak from LMP over the course of the day.
Vas and AGar are both defended by LMP over the course of the day.

Of this big group, I'm largely going to ignore Empking, Vas, and Eldarad due to my pretty good townreads on them at this point in the game. Together with my reads over the course of the game, I'd say two scum would be either Nocmen and AGar or Lowell and AGar. AGar mostly gets his own category because he's the only player that LMP was inconsistent on. In post 673, before UK was lynched, LMP tries to dissuade people from voting AGar. In post 875, AGar is now a potential suspect because he voted UK and LMP. That change in heart seems peculiar because AGar is thrown into a group of seven potential suspects. He also didn't list these suspects like he did in post 823. AGar and Jack are the new players that LMP includes in the jump from post 823 to 875, and Jack is town. I just do not like the connection between these two players.

Vote: AGar

I'll also accept a Nocmen wagon given how nearly every post that LMP made was "Nocmen needs to die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (...but lets vote Antihero first...)" or a Lowell wagon given that he's most likely to be scum from post 823.

[RedCoyote]

Thanks for replacing, DH. I look forward to playing with you again. I don't think you're in a good slot though. I need to go back, but Nikanor and LMP were bundled together quite a bit back in D1 when LMP caught some major heat.

[Nocmen]

RC: How am I suspicious because of my vote on LMP? I've stated since the beginning of the game that I suspected him. Yet I'm suspicious because I scum hunted and questioned others, but joined a wagon on someone who I had found suspicious since I joined?

[Glork]

Oh yeah, RedCoyote is super suspicious, too.

[DemonHybrid]

Thanks for replacing, DH. I look forward to playing with you again. I don't think you're in a good slot though. I need to go back, but Nikanor and LMP were bundled together quite a bit back in D1 when LMP caught some major heat.

Not a problem. I can't speak for Nikanor, but I'll do my best here.

LMP pushed Antihero hard. Very hard. Almost too hard. He pushed him before his wagon gained steam and after. I want to write off distancing here. I think it's a dead end. I think it was totally misleading. Post after post LMP wants it known that Antihero is his target. He really wants this lynch. Nocmen, on the other hand, is tagged on towards the end. Perhaps in a "crap, I better bus a scumbuddy" move.

I would actually say that early-game arguing is indicative of a scumbuddy relationship. There is just something way too fishy about Anti's vote on LMP...it doesn't seem natural in the least, and he was in the perfect position to bus. I think LMP just tried too hard to get Anti lynched, ready to say "Hey! He was scum, I told you so!"

In post 875, AGar is now a potential suspect because he voted UK and LMP. That change in heart seems peculiar because AGar is thrown into a group of seven potential suspects. He also didn't list these suspects like he did in post 823. AGar and Jack are the new players that LMP includes in the jump from post 823 to 875, and Jack is town. I just do not like the connection between these two players.

Actually, I don't think his vote on UK tells us anything. Voting for a claimed SK is a town and scum-motivated action, so what makes it more scum motivated to you?

Also, for how long did you believe the Haylen vs. AGar argument was town vs. scum? Did you believe this at all?

And why is AGar voting for LMP indicative of him being scum, but Antihero voting him in a bussing position not?

[Glork]

Vote: RedCoyote

Great placeholder vote; still waiting on Nachomamma.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, methinks RC and Anti are buddies, but I'm giving RC time to answer. I'd like either's lynch.

Unvote

[Nocmen]

Vote: Lowell

for actively lurking, and his votes have been on the last two wagons, and the claimed cop, and now on what seems the most popular wagon again. He's following and not contributing.
Or Anti too. Lowell/Anti, how about you just tell us your other scum buddy and make it easier for us?

[AGar]

VOTE: Haylen

Third time's the charm?

Question to Noc - why target Lowell/Anti for alurking but not Haylen?

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: Haylen

Third time's the charm?

Question to Noc - why target Lowell/Anti for alurking but not Haylen?

What is your opinion on Anti? You must have something to say.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP @AGar: RedCoyote as well, etc.

[RedCoyote]

RC: How am I suspicious because of my vote on LMP?

You (and possibly DH as well) misunderstand. I'm coming from LMP's perspective. He claimed you were suspicious because you voted him and UK. He pushed Antihero too hard, and then threw your name in later on after his wagon started to gain steam. That, coupled with my opinion of mothrax, the only scumread I had when I replaced in that hasn't been proven wrong, leads me to believe that you could very possibly be LMP's partner.

---

I would actually say that early-game arguing is indicative of a scumbuddy relationship. There is just something way too fishy about Anti's vote on LMP...it doesn't seem natural in the least, and he was in the perfect position to bus. I think LMP just tried too hard to get Anti lynched, ready to say "Hey! He was scum, I told you so!"

And, naturally, this would lead me to believe that Nocmen is a townread for you then, right? I took the time to go back and find this post. I'm unimpressed. I already thought I would be because I didn't noticed it during my original read through of the game after replacing. Antihero had a clear lead up to voting LMP, and he had voted different people prior.

I also see that his last post was on 11/27 though, so I think

he's way overdue for a prod

if he hasn't gotten one yet.

Actually, I don't think his vote on UK tells us anything. Voting for a claimed SK is a town and scum-motivated action, so what makes it more scum motivated to you?

[...]

And why is AGar voting for LMP indicative of him being scum, but Antihero voting him in a bussing position not?

As I said above, I'm coming at this from LMP's perspective, not mine. You and Nocmen misunderstand. I'm trying to gauge what he's saying that's true and what he's saying that's completely concocted. At first LMP wanted us to focus on the back of the UK wagon (this didn't include AGar), then, at the last minute, he says the people who were on both his wagon and the UK wagon (this did include AGar). His name is slipped into the mix despite the fact that he was trying to cool people to joining an AGar wagon the day prior. It's inconsistent.

As far as Haylen goes, the LMP flip just triggered it for me (hence the word "now"). Prior to this, I was unsure about Haylen, but warm to the meta argument about her.

[AGar]

My view on AH is he's all but not posting thus far. If he posted, I'd be able to commit more to things like "Oh he's posting, but not putting out anything really" or "You guys are fucktards." As far as I'm concerned, he should be force-replaced at this point. Haylen on the other hand is like "Ohhh I'll post." "Ohhh I'm gonna do this" and never does. Almost every post she's made is just delaying her putting out any kind of stance. Even D1 when she was called out on it, she denied it, but refused to provide reads.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no interest in sharing an investigation at the moment.

My five favorite wagons:
Nocumen
RedCoyote
Antihero
eldarad
Lowell

My Five Least Favorite Wagons:
Glork
Xine
DemonHybrid
AGar
Haylen

Reasons come later.

[Nocmen]

AGar: Because Lowell's votes are suspicious and following the wagons more than Haylen, who hasnt really voted much at all.

RC: I understand that a bit better now. I felt at first that LMP was trying everything to argue why I thought he was scum, but comparing to his attack on anti, i see the similarities.

[Lowell]

Vote: Lowell

for actively lurking, and his votes have been on the last two wagons, and the claimed cop, and now on what seems the most popular wagon again. He's following and not contributing.
Or Anti too. Lowell/Anti, how about you just tell us your other scum buddy and make it easier for us?

Some games need followers. Especially if we happen to be right. We don't need opportunists, though.

[Glork]

IMO, we should lynch RedCoyote and investigate Antihero tonight. If Antihero's protown, we let the scums nightkill his useless llurking ass. If he's scum, we lynch him next.

[Glork]

And yes, I'm idrecting the cop. Fuck you all.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: RC

[DemonHybrid]

As I said above, I'm coming at this from LMP's perspective, not mine. You and Nocmen misunderstand. I'm trying to gauge what he's saying that's true and what he's saying that's completely concocted. At first LMP wanted us to focus on the back of the UK wagon (this didn't include AGar), then, at the last minute, he says the people who were on both his wagon and the UK wagon (this did include AGar). His name is slipped into the mix despite the fact that he was trying to cool people to joining an AGar wagon the day prior. It's inconsistent.

Even though a lot of emphasis is put on the pathway to finding scum, the end product is what counts. I don't agree with your end statements, despite of how it looked from LMP's point of view. He was mafia. You can't trust his point of view.

Knowing that he is mafia, wouldn't it make sense to push a constant case against a buddy all game in order to distance? He's pretty good as a mafioso, so I don't understand why you'd believe so fully that mafia pushing a case against someone all game is indicative of the pushee being town and someone being defended slightly is indicative of being scum. LMP isn't that inexperienced.

My view on AH is he's all but not posting thus far. If he posted, I'd be able to commit more to things like "Oh he's posting, but not putting out anything really" or "You guys are fucktards." As far as I'm concerned, he should be force-replaced at this point. Haylen on the other hand is like "Ohhh I'll post." "Ohhh I'm gonna do this" and never does. Almost every post she's made is just delaying her putting out any kind of stance. Even D1 when she was called out on it, she denied it, but refused to provide reads.

I, for one, believe you both are town, despite the active lurking from Haylen. There is just much scummier behavior going on that Haylen isn't a priority for me at the moment. What are your opinions on the possibility that Antihero was bussing LMP?

@Nacho: I have a feeling that I should follow your reads.

Glork, your reads are valuable, so keep them coming.