Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[PogoStick]

@ BV - smar said AtE is a scum tell, what do you think about this?

oh wait, here I will point it out to you, this was taken from bv in a mafia discussion thread about scum tells

Those are just buzzwords people like to throw around to seem smart, in my experience. I don't see how AtE is more likely to come from scum than town.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2625413

while we are talking about aTe, let's go around mafiascum and see what we come up in the maifa discussion forum shall we

Appeal to emotion usually signifies that the person has a "gut feeling" and not an actual reason to vote someone out.

I'd say it's not a scumtell at all

unless it's the only thing used and it's used repeatedly.

You know that an acronym is poorly understood across the site when even site veterans don't know what it means.
AtE is Appeal to Emotion.

Appeal to Emotion is not a universal tell one way or another. It is certainly NOT a "noobtell," as I know countless veterans who use it from time to time. Heck, I've started wearing my emotions on my sleeve at times, and I'd hardly call myself a noob. Emotion is used to convey the urgency or adamancy of what you're saying. As such, it MUST be taken contextually. There's really not much more to say on the topic. Take it case by case and look at all the circumstances regarding somebody's profane-laced tirade or appeal to hugs and rainbows and butterfly kisses.

It's anti-town and scummy...

...

But not a scum tell

. It's not an indication of alignment, rather, an indication of how emotionally fit that player is to be in the game. True, I have seen it used more often by town players, but said players also used it when scum. Null and void, really.

and I have not really OMGUS'd anyone because I have found reasons to vote each person I have voted for, even if people disagree the reasons were valid and were not "oh my god you voted me so I must vote you" which is what I think of OMGUS is

[smargaret]

So that's the only thing you want to respond to, Hop?

[PogoStick]

no I am working on your more recent post now, I posted that before your last post

[PogoStick]

1. Everything I mentioned happened since you went to L-1 because I don't feel like wading through your posts with Empking right now and you've committed 3-4 scumtells since then that surprise surprise, happen to be fresher in my memory. Also, see my first content post of the game. There's plenty of pre-L-1 scumtells on you there.

so you NEVER made a case for voting me and you put me at L-1? seems very opportunistic if you ask me. lazyness is anti-town

2. Your claim is not a scumtell, it is scummy. As Zang said, it is a safe thing for scum to claim, and the only (possibly) verifiable part of it doesn't confirm your alignment.

ok your lazyness and lying are worse than my claim which you say is scummy but i say is the truth

3. Your reaction to being at L-1 is a scumtell because of the delay in claiming, the sudden insistence that "I am clear!" and all the AtE and OMGUS since then (you don't consider them scumtells, I do, deal with it).

I have been told on this site that you wait to be asked before claiming, so I waited until I was asked and I claimed.

4. Which post contains your case against emp? All I saw was a bunch of "You're scum!" "No, you're scum!" "No, you are!"

here it is http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2643035

5. Suspicion of everyone is a scumtell because it is leaving your options open - you can see how everyone else reacts before committing.

but I have provided reasons why they did something to make me suspicious. I don't know who scum yet

6. So wait, I can't decide you're scum once you're at L-2? Now, that's not the case because I'd already said I was null-leaning-scum on you, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone's read to change over the course of the day.

you agreed with me TWICE on the stuff I was saying about emp, and the information you provided about why you changed your view just doesn't make any sense. I had provided a STRONG case and he provided a WEAK (your words) case

7. No, I don't think you genuinely believe emp is scum because I think YOU are scum.

than stop being lazy and make a case on what has gotten you to think I am scum because you were on my side agreeing with me and nothing I posted since you flopped to emp's side in my opinion did anything to warrant that change.

EBWOP: Hop, the mafiascum link didn't look relevant. I was skimming google results, the second link had the word "commuter" in it, the first one didn't.

REALLY? the mafia scum link that took you to the list of ALL ROLES ON MAFIA SCUM wasn't relevant? especially since OMG we are playing on mafia scum

[PogoStick]

damn bold fail on a few of those

[PogoStick]

Hop: Please differentiate your statements from mine.

apologize, had problem with the quotes

[smargaret]

You're doing the same thing you did yesterday: "Okay, I wifom'd, but Furc's wifom is worse!" I don't buy it any more than I would have day 1. And you're still ignoring the fact that I had a null-scum read on you from the start of the day, so my vote was hardly out of nowhere.

[Empking]

I can't believe that Hop decided to quote Zerofang and Mastin to prove his point and then left Glork to the middle.

Hop:
1. Your case was amost completely untruths (That's what I meant by "Bull", "Quotes please" and "Evidence Plerase".
2. You tell me how to prove the (truthful) statement "despite find the same players scummy, early D2 DB and Hop refused to vote for the same player" and then I'll prove my arguments.

[PogoStick]

I can't believe that Hop decided to quote Zerofang and Mastin to prove his point and then left Glork to the middle.

Hop:
1. Your case was amost completely untruths (That's what I meant by "Bull", "Quotes please" and "Evidence Plerase".
2. You tell me how to prove the (truthful) statement "despite find the same players scummy, early D2 DB and Hop refused to vote for the same player" and then I'll prove my arguments.

why don't you ask DB, because I voted for everyone I found scummy

I voted for you, zang, smar, SV, and even BV so I had no problem voting for people. I believe your assessment on DB is probably the most accurate, I think he is teh one trying to not seem so suspicious, cause it's clear that I have no problems with my actions or how it makes me look. I am being accused of looking scummy and I don't give a fuck cause I know I am town.

If I remember correctly somebody told me scum doesn't like to draw attention to themselves and they definitly care about how they appear, so using that I am either the worst scum in the history of mafia or I AM NOT SCUM.

All I am asking for is give me one more day because there is more than enough reasonable doubt that I am not scum.

Zang's case on me has merit but none of it are scum tells

Smarg refuses to make a case on me because she is too lazy to go back, yet she puts me at L-1 but if I recally she was calling you out emp for not making a case, so seems smarg is being a bit hypocritical also

you made a case on me a while back but sorry to say most of your case just didn't make sense. I honestly didn't realize scum could day talk, I was distancing from town when mafia normally distance from each other. If i was scum I would most likely be defending furclow til the end but I didn't,

this just goes back to the point I am trying to make, you guys all suspect me of being scum but you can't find any REAL examples of tru scum tells, plus with the information TM has provided it shoudl be enough to try and find somebody else to lynch, somebody who has had real scum slips.

I actually would be more willing to lynch Smar because I have busted her on actual lies and her reasons for them have not been convincing enough, and like I said if you are pro-town there is no reason to lie.

[PogoStick]

oh and I don't know who they are, I just pulled random quotes from that thread, there are way more people who also say AtE isn't a scum tell.

[PogoStick]

here are some things I don't like about smargaret

Okay, so my first question: If we have a vig, WHY ARE HOP AND SV STILL ALIVE?

That is why we have a sk,

not a vig, because VIs/annoying PRs are vigbait and any decent vig knows this.

Setup speculation as his 2nd post of the game is very odd considering this statement

A quick word about setup speculation: It's not inherently bad or scummy.

There are times when it can be quite useful to town, such as when trying to figure out who's fakeclaiming in a massclaim scenario, or when trying to get a slow game started up. While I think it's worth considering sk/vig, we shouldn't get too distracted that we forego scumhunting.

she later doesn't think we should no be distracted of a sk/vig cause it would distract from scum hunting but she posts the concept of it first.

Agrees with what i am saying about emp - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2639336

even accuses emp of tunneling -

Empking, how is that philosophy not tunneling? There is at least one other scum out there.

smarg says this

3. Empking needs to post a case on at least one other player. There are three scum out there, you have four scumreads, and you've revealed who they are - saying why you think so for one of them isn't going to take too much time and will give us all something new to discuss. I'm sorry, but I just got out of a game where lack of discussion led to an easy mafia victory, and I'm kicking myself over it.

but hasn't posted a single case yet herself, especially she says lack of discussion led to an east mafia victory, and she is refusing to provide a scum case on me because she is too lazy, this is hypocritical of her

Zang has some good points about Hop, and I need to reread him (yuck), but I want to ask something first -
.

yet she never does a re-read on me

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2650280

this is where I really feel like smarg is trying to protect zang for some reason and this quote in particiular

If this is the case, why should we keep you around? It's pretty clear that this is Zang's playstyle, and if you are too lazy to respond to his points, how are you any better than Empking refusing to build cases? At least Empking has a reason for denying the town information, even if it's not one I agree with.

1. I have not refused to build a case
2. withholding information from town is not helping town and saying it is okay is also not pro-town

and than all of the other posts is when she starts siding with empking, personally I think this is when she and her scum buddies realize that they can get me lynched so she starts defending emp (again this is just my own speculation)

and on top of all this she has lied I believe 3 times in this game which has no town motivation to lie.

[Doombunny9]

DB, just being picky, but Hop said that, not me.

That was a mistake on my part XD

I am being accused of looking scummy and I don't give a fuck cause I know I am town.

You were practically begging people to take their votes off of you. I don't think that's "not giving a fuck"

I actually would be more willing to lynch Smar...

Then why aren't you voting her?

[PogoStick]

I don't give a fuck how I look is what I mean, I know town and I can rationally explain my actions and in not afraid of the pressure on me

I want people to unvote cause I don't think a mislynch with 3 dead townies is the way to help town win

I actualyy already voted her once, I can do it again but what's the point?

Nobody else seems to care she lies and has admitted she is to lazy to make a case on me, or explain with logic what happened overnight that one night that had her voting for emp to putting me at L-1

Those behaviors are suspicious yet everyone is taking get side it seems

I personally think The reason nobody is listening to me is because you all think I'm a VI, because the points I pointed out, if done by someone with more credibility , you would be more willing to listen

I basically have nothing to gain by lying, I am at L-1 and can be lynched any tine, I'm just trying to get people to stop and discuss these other actions for a bit and determine if it's something to look into

I asked people to make a case

1. Smar is too lazy
2. Zang's is decent but not really scum tells
3. Emp won't til I answer why DB and I have not voted the same, like I can read DB's mind (cause I have proven I'm not afraid to vote my suspicions) And DB and I ARE voting the same player now so this point is invalid
4. Bv is not here again, checks in after 7 days, at the least until he reads up he should unvote cause he has no clue what is going on in this game

Are these 4 votes on me town motivated? Doesn't seem like it to me

[PogoStick]

Top line should be I know I'm town

[Empking]

3. Emp won't til I answer why DB and I have not voted the same, like I can read DB's mind (cause I have proven I'm not afraid to vote my suspicions) And DB and I ARE voting the same player now so this point is invalid

Bull.

2. You tell me how to prove the (truthful) statement "despite find the same players scummy, early D2 DB and Hop refused to vote for the same player" and then I'll prove my arguments.

[PogoStick]

But we are voting the same person
I can't tell you why DB isn't voting for people but I have voted all my suspicions. I have voted for like 5 people this day phase
Does he even find the same people scummy that I do?
You still are not posting your case on me

Again, bull is such a crap response to anything

[PogoStick]

One more thing, this game is to catch scum so I vote people I suspect is scum because votes put pressure on people to get them to talk, how is this anti-town behavior?

[Empking]

One more thing, this game is to catch scum so I vote people I suspect is scum because votes put pressure on people to get them to talk, how is this anti-town behavior?

If that's directed to me then when did I say that?

[PogoStick]

It's directed at whoever said my accusing everyone is scummy

I don't remember who said it

[Doombunny9]

I can't tell you why DB isn't voting for people but I have voted all my suspicions.

I don't know what you mean here. I do beleive that I am voting for people.

I actualyy already voted her once, I can do it again but what's the point?

You answered this yourself: "votes put pressure on people to get them to talk"

Besides, "smar probably isn't going to get lynched today so there's no reason to vote her" is a poor reason.

Bull.

1. Kool arguement there.
2. What's bull about it? The fact that HOMJ isn't a mind reader (At least I don't think he is) or the fact that me and HOMJ aren't voting the same person (read the vote count)?

[Empking]

DB:
1. Which of the following two facts are true: You are scum with Hop OR you don't know what "early day 2" means?
2. Which of the following two facts are true: You are scum with Hop OR you don't know what "how to prove" means?

[PogoStick]

@ emp, when i flip town, who will be your suspects for scum and why

[Empking]

@ emp, when i flip town, who will be your suspects for scum and why

You're not going to flip town.

[PogoStick]

sadly you are mistaken

but okay in your mind, use hypothetical

[PogoStick]

I am still waiting for you to post your case on me like i have asked already