Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[SocioPath]

THAT IS WHAT MAKES THE MAGIC WORK.

[magnus_orion]

um... why wouldn't the actual vig counterclaim without you saying anything?

[SocioPath]

That is missing the point entirely and not what I was stating or implying at all.

[magnus_orion]

Explain.

[Jahudo]

It would be a bad idea to lynch DTM or Spy today. I dunno about balancing, we might not know about some roles that could factor into what looks like a powerful town role combo.

Jah, do you think vezok is town or scum.

Based on Rhinox, leaning town. Based on vezok's play, I'm beginning to understand that he's just being a proxy for Fate. So the reasons I had for finding him scummy (acting without reading the thread, so his actions are contradictory / opportunistic) look completely null now. So I don't consider him a good lynch choice today. Even thought I wish he'd change, I'm done trying to force it out of him.

I need to narrow down the bottom few, please hoooold more.

There's the PoE I've been waiting to see! When you're done looking at Rhinox, it'd be cool to see your UK/Magnus/Jahudo reads again. I agree there should be one scum in Rhinox's scum bracket, but I can't argue one right now

[Ellibereth]

WELL
It's you or mango. (why is he mango anyway????) cause I have UK as clear big town right now.
You don't have UK town?

[Ellibereth]

Jesus h fate I swear. Ellie too.

WHAT!?!?!?
I haven't even called you SCUM YET.

[Fate]

I know I haven't said why Spy is scum but its here and there

[Fate]

Ah FUCK SOCIO beat me to it. I guess he needed som/e ttown cred though too

[Fate]

Jesus h fate I swear. Ellie too.

WHAT!?!?!?
I haven't even called you SCUM YET.

*looks at ellies list*

.....

Maybe ellie should die not mango, but spy is common denom

[SpyreX]

ELLIE YOU SAID YOU NEEDED MORE INFO ON ME BEING TOWN AFTER I DONE SHOT A SCUM FFF

Here is a heads up.
If everyone was the role that they claimed, then it would pan out like this:

If scum wanted their second night, then they would have to kill DTM, who does nothing but grant a second night. Buy one kill get one free.

But that would give spy the "vig" 2 nights of killing before even worrying about not popping back up into the next day.

So lynching DTM would net this for the next cycle: 1 "liability" lynch, 1 vig kill, 1 scum kill.
So 1 net "town" controlled kill.
And 1 scum aimed kill.

NOT lynching DTM today would net: 1 lynch, 1 "liability" scum kill, 1 vig kill...second night: 1 scum kill, 1 vig kill.
Sooooo 3 net "town" controlled kills.
1 useless liability scum kill, and 1 actual scum aimed kill.

GEE.
Scum shooting DTM is actually worse off for them at this point, barring other outside factors.

Soooo...spy the "vig" is not really that vig at all, given the DTM push.

OR GET THIS I AM A ONE SHOT.

Jesus.

You jumped to "not a vig" and a mystical kill last night considering a counterclaim would be instant death?

So, with this new piece of information does lynching DTM make a whole lot more sense?

[Faraday]

Vote count 2.5

Ellibereth (2)

GammaGooey, Sociopath

magnus_orion (3)

Fate, AlmasterGM, Vezokpiraka

AlmasterGM (1)

DTMaster

DTMaster (1)

SpyreX

SpyreX (1)

UncertainKitten

Not voting (3):

Jahudo , Ellibereth, magnus_orion

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline's 17th of December at 3pm GMT.

[magnus_orion]

@Spyrex:
*cough*

if 1 shot vig:
town lynch dtm -1 town
scum kill -1 town
town lynch -1 person
scum kill -1 town
3 town death
0 scum death
1 additional


town don't lynch dtm -1 person
scum kill dtm -1 town
scum kill -1 town
town lynch -1 person
scum kill -1 town
3 town death
0 scum death
2 additional

[Gammagooey]

I'm gonna have

Limited Access

until Thursday evening- My 21st birthday is tommorrow and then I have exams Wednesday and Thursday to study for and take.

I don't want to lynch SpyreX given the vig claim.

I've read over the case on AGM and AGM's iso- It's not a bad case but I have a gut town read on AGM, and I don't think the case is as strong as Elli's uselessness + never mentioning Rhinoz once through all the VV/Rhinox debacle yesterday when both VV and Rhinox were scumgiants among men AND had connections to each other that I still can't completely wrap my head around.

OH HEY NINJAS.

If SpyreX is just a one-shot vig then DT might actually be the best play for today : /.
Bluh. Still want Elli dead but give me a minute to go over magnus's thing.

[Gammagooey]

So basically with 11 alive we lose a mislynch either way- I don't think DT would do this as scum so we either use a lynch on him now that could be used on scum or we lose a mislynch anyway with his death.

I'd rather lynch for realz now. Even if Vezok is town then we should still have at least one more power role out there that could make the extra night suck less, and if we lynch a scumz now and if we have a tracker/roleblocker then it'll make their job a lot easier. If Vezok ISN'T town then I'd guess two PRs out there that'll benefit more from the extra night than a lynch on DT.

[SpyreX]

I am a one shot vig lord. And that's not the important part.

DTM is:

1.) Telling the truth.
--- Lynching him is far better than having him killed (see the value of another person).
--- Realistically, he's not getting killed

tonight

. He's gonna be saved to force lylo a day early or cause a ruckus depending on how cards lay out.

2.) Lying
--- Is scum
--- SECRET REASONS AS TOWN
----- This better not be the case.

Now, while I doubt we're in scenario #2 I'm not a fan of keeping it around unless we've got some serious business today and have a real shot at scum.

So, we can look for #2 but a miss lays it at probably 9:(Probably 2 if DTM is telling the truth) with a BP left OR 8:2 with a double night. Considering team SpyreX is scum I'm not confident enough at the moment to think its gonna be a home run.

HOWEVER, I'll do a double take because I'm second guessing myself now on my reads (I -almost- shot Socio but that apparently would have been a bad idea if he's gonna be all town). The only one I could see swinging to without too much doubt would be AGM.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...to be honest? I'm not sure I believe SpyreX. This is going to sound stupid but...I think he capitulated to full claiming too easily. It's not like Spy to DO something like that. He'd get out of it without blowing the fact he only had one shot, or at least fight a little harder.

Now, of course, this raises the question of who shot who? I think there are a couple of possibilties. SpyreX could be an SK. There could be an SK out there who made the kill, and Spy is taking the credit (less likely unless he KNEW there was an SK). Finally, there's a vig out there that plans to shoot Spy in the face tonight (Also unlikely since that'd be a stupid risk for Spy)

So, I think Spy would more likely be SK than scum...that said, what do we? He can't shoot without blowing his cover.

[SpyreX]

Ohh UK I like your style this game (although the to be honest IS one of those things that gets me all paranoid).

I'm one shot. Why do you think I kept dancing the I am a vig dance because I wanted to eat the kill / rb. BUT, a new challenger approached which needs to be dealt with now AND that couldn't happen (see Socio's reasonable but wrong thought process) without coming clean.

[UncertainKitten]

I've been trying to stop using it because it's stupid filler that makes no sense. But I've been using it in conversation a lot lately, even if it's not applicable :S.

Well, regardless, you aren't the play today. Elli is starting to become more impressive too. DT also has an alibi at least, though he still might be the play.

I'm admittedly really, really lost and don't know who the scum are right now :S.

[Fate]

No shitt you wwere one shot. That was as trasnaprent as glass to scum. That/and ur dtm lulz made 2+2 anti town equals scum

[AlmasterGM]

god, wtf is going on now.

i'm an english major, this dtm + spyrex mathematics is making my head spin.

[magnus_orion]

@AGM: Fate's spewing nonsense, socio should know better, so socio might be scum, Spyrex and DTM are both town.

[Fate]

Lol nice content scum. Call the two obvclaims tlown WOOOO

[AlmasterGM]

K.

DTM has responded with walls. Lovely. I shall respond shortly IT'LL BE A NICE SIDESHOW to all this whoop-dee-fucking-do that's going on.

[Jahudo]

Vote: Ellibereth

I like this wagon enough to vote now that Elli has had plenty of time to comment on the claims but chose not to. It looks too cautious, like he didn't want to say something unpopular / something that might hint of scum insight or strategy.
+ How Rhinox treated him and PZ tell.
+ I feel good about the people on his wagon.

I believe Spy's modified claim that he's 1-shot. There were signs of it before DTM's claim, so it doesn't look like an adjustment at all. It also supports DTM-town. I don't see how Spy looks like SK though? Is there any case on his play or is it setup spec?

I also don't see the point in lynching DTM at all now. If we did we'd be out DTM + ProTownieTown1, then day. Best Case alternative we get rid of Scum2 + DTM + Townie1, then day. Worst case alternative SuspiciousTown1 + DTM + ProTownieTown1, then day. My rationale is that I think we can lynch a second scum before a DTM-powered lylo hits, based on the finite number of suspicious characters here.

I need to reread Magnus and UK.