Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Guderian]

Hello all. I know a scant few of you, look forward to playing with the rest

2+2=5

A warm greeting to

Vote: Thor665

[Guderian]

Not even a hello or anything?

[Guderian]

unvote

vote: blood queen

Never to early for gut.

[Guderian]

bloodqueen, I am suggesting you are scum based on a reaction I have gotten based on this very short game. I'm not sure why that needed clarification.

I got the feeling from just a few of your posts you seemed nervous, wanted to make friends and escape notice.

[Guderian]

Agar, you will need to rephrase your question, because as it stand I have no idea what it means or what it is implying.

What I think you're saying is if scum try and be pro-town prominent leaders? I think that works for some scum but not for others. For example, I read the one game thor was scum. Rather prominent scum. He did well. He lost eventually. So...

Why is it that you needed my opinion on that rather cryptic matter?

[Guderian]

Yeah I read that game, it was highly entertaining, two scum vs an entire village and one scum lynched day one. (who I guess was singersinger)

Thor did you mean to say 1/2 or 2/2?

singer what did you make of agars question? Actually, this question is open to all.

[Guderian]

agar, I dont think I ever said that scum would sit back and take a role of 'coasting'.

Your question is intrinsically flawed, because I don't know who is the scum until we either lynch them all or the game is over and so I wont know if they were scum and 'taking the attention' or town and 'taking the attention'. Personally, I dont really care how scum or town play their games.

(I'm not even quite sure what you mean by taking the spotlight. Do you mean post a lot, or have prominent cases, or lead lynches....)

Usually though, in my experience, scum teams boil down to this, whether through choice or nature:
A loud one
A thoughful one
A quiet one

Thor, are you implying I latched my vote on to some sort of VI or whatnot?

also, hi carrot! It looks like because his manly beard is so awesome, he can support many lynches. I approve.

preview: Both actually. Why did he make the question, what the question about, and you could answer it yourself if you want.

[Guderian]

because you were the post above me .

thats the one.

[Guderian]

Bam.

He then goes on to set up a specific meta-type for a 3 man scum-team's potential behavior.

It's sooooo scummy it hurts.

Bam.

He uses a one liner to make a case.

Its sooooo scummy it hurts /sarcasm.

What exactly is 'soooo' scummy about my post? Would you mind detailing it beyond one line.

[Guderian]

1. I begin by calling out bloodqueen for minor 'tells' I consider scummy.
2. Agar considers these 'non-scummy' or 'townish'.
3. Ask a question in which he tries to subtly suggest that in fact scum are very prominent members of the town
4. I respond 'incorrectly' to the question because Im not sure what point he was driving at.
5. I am called scum.

So, what we have is a discrepancy on how we believe scum could or do act. I believe some are quiet and some are loud. He assumes all are loud (?? still unsure) and states this.

rhinox, and thor, I opened agars particular question up to everyone. You don't have to answer, but I am interesting in seeing how would you respond to that question.

[Guderian]

Unvote

Vote: sims

[Guderian]

unvote

Vote: Thor665

I was looking forward to us both being town thor . Who are your scum buddies?

[Guderian]

hmm

unvote

Vote:singersigner

unvote

Vote:ConfidAnon

unvote

Vote:AGar

unvote

Vote:Powerrox93

unvote

Vote:Guderian

unvote

Vote:Rhinox

unvote

Vote:sims5487

unvote

Vote:Carrotcake

unvote

Vote:Seraphim

unvote

Vote:Blood Queen

unvote

Vote:Thor665

unvote

Vote:Reckamonic

Unvote
Vote: Thor665

[Guderian]

A+ for effort. However, -------> Mini 1094 <----------

Thor/recka/sims scum team. Though I do like agar as the SK.

[Guderian]

By page seven, it seems Thor is more interested in making friends than anything else. Jokes, silliness and just a general style talking. Gut feeling is that he want to be the 'good guy' of the town. I get distinct scum vibes when I read his posts.

[Guderian]

If you flip scum, he's next on my firing list. If you somehow flip town, I'll need to re-read him for behavior.

Cant miss this nugget from Agar. Setting up actions predicated on previous actions = scum. If X, and X is bad, does not mean we should do Y and then Z and then....

[Guderian]

sims5487 wrote:I don't trust Thor trying to be buddy-buddy but I don't know if I would say that's a scum tell just yet...

sims-thor distancing/faux argument noted.

[Guderian]

When and why did confid switch from sims is kinda newbie-- its all right--, to bloodqueen is kinda newbie, obvious scum?

[Guderian]

Why is thor an awful lynch from your point of view?

[Guderian]

The fact that you quoted my reason and still saw fit to post that is strange. I am getting the feeling that the lynch for your point of view must be simply anybody OTHER than thor. There are a couple reason I could think for this line of thought, and none of them good.

[Guderian]

I have pointed out what is scummy. Instead of sticking you fingers in your ears and yelling about, careful go back and look at thor. Then look at his interactions with sims. Check out confid's change in tune. Look at your own interactions with thor, and evaluate, "is this making me look scummy?"

Don't get angry/emotion, use logic. Then come back.

[Guderian]

I'd rather not go on, because clearly you don't want to listen, but you almost just admitted to being a useless part of the town, by being unable to actually look through and think and question things. I'm asking you to look for yourself and decide.

I can take a horse to water, I just cant make it drink. If you dont want to think for yourself, just switch your vote to one of these people:

Thor
Agar
Sims
Confid
Reck

Good things will happen.

[Guderian]

No, I never claimed there were five scum. Yet I am sure there is 3-4 scum out of that bunch. To many of them are connected to each other.

singer is just making stupid posts, not being scummy. I have no idea why she is protecting thor the way she is.

recka rolls in and proclaims thor town again. Hmm.

Have you read agar? He seriously looks to be some sort of anti-town party. I'm not sure exactly, which Is why I proclaimed him serial killer.

Strongly disliking Guderian's suggestion that we're in a 3:1:8 setup. Is there ANYTHING that would suggest that that town would know about?

sorry, I forgot.

Claim: Serial Killer

[Guderian]

Why Confidanon is Scum:

Reason 1
Reason 2
Reason 3


1. Tries to pick on the early easy lynches.
a.

I don't like this. Why continue the RVS when we are clearly past it?

For one thing, I know everybody doesn't agree on where this ends. The justification of this reason is beyond terrible, calling out sims for "unsubstantial posts":

but fear of being labelled a lurker causes you to make an unsubstantial post.

To test this, most of my posts have been mainly garbage. Yet he didn't mention me once. Why is this? I assume he either thought
a. I would be to tough of a target
b. He didnt actually believe what he was saying.

I am leaning towards b. He wanted to 'look active' to appear non-scummy, which is basically what he lambasted others for doing.

Scum Points

2. Switches Point of Attack

a. He calls out sims for being newbie scum, but then decides that this is actually newb town.

The more I think about it, what I've seen from

sims could be newb/playstyle

, but it's still not great.

You've been downgraded (sorry if it hurts your feelings).

Unvote: sims
FoS: sims

He then votes bloodqueen, saying she may be new/skittish, and thus is obviously mafia.

I think this has merit.

Vote: Blood Queen

Of course, he doesn't mention this again. Maybe he hopped people would notice his vote change without questioning him? He looks too have clearly contradicted himself twice on this point.

a. changes tunes
b. doesn't follow up on people he considers scummy.

Scum Points

3. Overall Reactions

a. His iso 11-12 tries to make friends with thor, tries to appear nonchalant, carefree. Looks like a not so well covered act.
b. His

Gud - Explain. Now.

is clearly forced. What would he hope I would say. What it looks like is he wants to get on this wagon without notice.

unvote

Vote: ConfidAnon

[Guderian]

I got what I wanted.

[Guderian]

Town motivation for claiming SK: Um. ...yeah, nothing.

1. Reactions
2. something about me. It has helped this part definitely.

I'm starting to think maybe Gud is scum and claiming SK in hopes that we'd offer allegiance (as CarrotCake has done), thus ensuring the survival of at least one scum to endgame.

How? I dont understand any of this post. Offer allegiance???

Plus, Guderian should fully reveal all of his powers. To allow us to judge the truthfullness of his claim, and grant us insight. Who knows, maybe we can work out a deal; such as giving us the option of forcing a draw in case things go badly for the town.

???? This is openly anti-town. Offer a draw? What? If you think I am serial killer why aren't you stringing me up? Only actions like this will result in things going "badly for town".

Confid, what do you think about the serial killer claim?

Sera, what are your thoughts on Confid/ and carrot.

Ok... ... ... But I'm not any smarter then I was before so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guderian

hmmm.

(confid, english is spoken by me, and well. Why did you bring that up?)

[Guderian]

Before I answer seraphim, tell me, do you think I am or am not the serial killer?

If he was actually a serial killer

Also, don't forget that if Guderian is the SK

sims, if carrot cake was offering allegiance, why is she doing it, and what does it mean? I have never heard of anything like this in before in any game I have played

Okay. As soon as you claimed SK, CarrotCake piped up an immediately started defending you, going so far as to posit that we should not only avoid voting for you, but keep you alive for as long as possible to use you as leverage and get you to help us lynch scum.

Sounds like an allegiance to me, no?

singer,

Clearly the only option is to lynch Guderian.

hmmmm

[Guderian]

VI trying a gambit, or trolling. I can't believe that anyone would claim SK seriously this early in a game.

I brought up the English thing because, at times, it seems that your posts are a little awkwardly worded, and I was wondering if that was more of a personality thing or a language barrier thing.

First you call me and idiot, then a troll. Ok I guess...

English is fluent.

Your whole post was basically riffing me. You wanted me to respond to that?

[Guderian]

power, You have 15 posts. most are filled with hopping on the biggest bandwagon. You have little gems like this

Carrotcake brings up some important point.

Maybe I wasn't interested at all in AGar, maybe I was more interested in Rhinox by then.

Which you didnt elaborate or follow up on. Why Not?

And that doesn't make you look any better at all.

There is two full pages of content between this post and the quoted post. Nothing to talk about? If you whole case on me....? What exactly is it.

There is enough going on in this game that you could talk about, ask about, or inquire about.

[Guderian]

So agar, instead of wanting me to claim, you put me at L-1 where any of the frothing mases in this game could come in and hammer, and then demand a claim? Without saying anything else?

It nice how you made such a horrific vote, so its blatant for everyone else to see.

For one, Im not going to say anything about my role unless someone unvotes, because I don't want a stray missile to come in here and blow me up if they 'don't believe it.'

I was kidding about claiming serial killer, because in the post I quoted and then claimed I think I made it evident I may not something more about the game then the average townie might. But claiming serial killer worked better than I could ever have hoped. It galvanized this town, and forced people into situations they are uncomfortable with.

This clearly hurts the anti-town factions, because they must be more precise with their words. And it also gave them a chance to slip onto this alluring wagon, which seems like a slam dunk. When I don't flip SK however, they will be in a pickle.

From all this, I believe several things have become more clear than normal.

1. Agar is almost definitely scum or SK
2. powerrox I am pretty confident is Scum as well.
3. I would still peg confid as the last scum at the moment, but am less sure. I wouldn't discount seraphim. He shows up, places a vote, and departs.
4. Town reads on a few people, more apparent than before.

[Guderian]

We both posted at 2:11. I'll look now, I just got home brother.

[Guderian]

I looks good, nice defense. Well laid out. There didn't seem to be any specific questions launched at me, So I think thats why I didn't respond.

I still think you're slightly scummy. Are you concerned because my vote is still on you?

[Guderian]

If you think I was serious.... please lets not go there.

[Guderian]

Let me explain my reasoning to everyone.

Here is the data from the last 50 closed games

Latest 50 Closed 3:9 Games (wins):

Town

: 12

Mafia

: 38

This is how mafia wins..... They do nothing. 76% of the time winning is too significant a percentage to overlook and proclaim it a particular mafia groups well playing. For mafia to win these setup's they essentially have to show up.

This is how town wins.... well actually it looks like town doesn't ever win. Town is only 12/50 in the last 50 games. What does that mean? People are playing the same way, the same 'accepted way', doing townie things and what have you, and they end up losing. Badly. Almost every game.

What does that mean. Should the status quo continue, me and the town are likely to lose this game. Its raw numbers. Debate it all you want. If we played the 'normal' way, heres what usually happens.

Day 1: Usually a noob/VI/person people dont like, is lynched. This is a subtle policy lynch. People aren't overt or even conscious about it. But one little 'scumslip' is magnified, and the town pounces. If you debate this, look at the number of games Thor, or Glork, or Yos2, or anyone prominent, is lynched day one. Never happens.

N1: Random person killed

Day 2: Analysis over the townie killing. Who was on the wagon! Usually, its just some misguided town and maybe a scum or two. Usually not that many. They dont have to provoke town into lynching. So after much debate, it comes down to two people, one a questionable townie, one scum. Townie, perhaps is lynched.

Day 3-5 # days or lylo. Good luck.

So what did I do? Something scum never want to have happen. I obliterated the status quo. I rocked the boat. It may not have been popular, but it forced reactions out of people that maybe they didnt want to give.

That is why I claimed serial killer and let it ride. To see. To observe. To hope that maybe, town can win this one.

From this, I believe we have gotten some of what we wanted. We separated the sincere newbies from those with malicious intent, and forced the 'experienced' players to respond. I would argue my play this game has been the most pro town out of anybodies.

[Guderian]

I guess I could claim if a lot of people really wanted, though I am loath too. It helps town greatly if my information remains secret, but to prevent a known mislynch (from my POV) I will if I have too.

[Guderian]

Are you afraid of a little rocking? I see you as pretty overly concerned with what you believe as 'not-acceptable behavior'. Unfortunately, if I am lynched, you'll probably be lynched tomorrow (not any fault of yours, just look at the statistic), and the town will probably be doomed by then. So if you really are town, I need you to consider what you're saying. If youre scum, keep doing whatever.

Just remember:

76%.

why change?

[Guderian]

Sera, if 9:3 is so harsh on town, shouldn't town do something to try and turn that around?

here's what happens: You get lynched

Please self-vote

self voting. didnt know that was good for town.

(by the way, from my view, All of sims/singer/power had the same reaction to my claim, which I didn't expect. All are newer, so I expected the scum among them to act differently. But, Basically along the lines of, he claims SK, hes mafia, lynch him! This is troubling because I think they have good intentions, but if/when we lynch me, one of these people will be mislynch fodder on day 2. Which will put town in exactly the situation we were trying to avoid.)

[Guderian]

I would point out the folly in your argument, but I think you're town at the moment. Anyways, I'm done answering all these nattering arguments. People like recka are just sliding under every bodies radars since I am basically "confirmed scum" in the words of several people in this game.

For reference, this is the post where you first mentioned me as scum, and then voted me.

I'm starting to think maybe Gud is scum and claiming SK in hopes that we'd offer allegiance (as CarrotCake has done), thus ensuring the survival of at least one scum to endgame. Other people have pointed out some scummy behavior from CC; it would make sense that she, as scum, would try to jumpstart a ridiculous campaign to offer him sanctuary and use him as anti-scum rather than anti-town. Thoughts?

Unvote
Vote: Guderian

[Guderian]

I might as well say this now.

Sims singer and power NEED TO PROMISE that tomorrow, If I am lynched, they will not support ANY lynch on any of the other two. The lynch will look tempting. It will seem to make sense. Its going to seem tempting. But unless there is a cop with a guilty, you ARE NOT to lynch among your little threesome. Day 3 and on, sure, but tomorrow, please dont. If any of you are attacked, you MUST defend each other. Otherwise town will almost definitely lose.

[Guderian]

The difference is some of those other people are actually scum.

[Guderian]

[Guderian]

All recka has done is declare "Guder is not town", "guder is not town", "hammer yourself", "shut up scum"....etc, not much more. No comments about other players. Why? Because he wants to ram this mislynch down.

unvote

Vote: reckamonic

[Guderian]

Actually, I have found that usually only scum call others "obv scum". Not sure why this is, usually it seems to stem from an inner knowledge that the person is not scum, ergo they aren't committing scum actions, ergo the actual scum must appeal to emotion more than a townie does.

which is what you're doing. Which is why you're scum.

[Guderian]

This is too much for my soul to bear.

DAYKILL: singersinger

[Guderian]

Blatant misrepresentation on almost every post. If I am alive tomorrow, you're next.

Also reading another game, someone brought up some interesting questions. Considering Gud-scum,

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

[Guderian]

Hold on. Don't get anxious at L-1? I just let and be hammered?

Dont have a grasp on the games?

Also avoided:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

[Guderian]

The last 50 3:9 games are 37 mafia, 13 town.

Typing wall of text post is anti-town and why the town loses so much. I have 3 newer players on my lynch because they thought I was a legit SK, 2 scum, and seraphim.

You're not as good as you think you are. So stop.

[Guderian]

I was talking to Agar...

[Guderian]

For one, Why would we show trends from years ago. Are you insane? Use the most recent data. It shows the trends, and the trend is town losing.
For two, even if we use that, town wins a paltary 36% of the time. Are you claiming this is good?

At this point, i'm tired of putting up with bullshit arguments from the loudmouth singer/recka (whoever this hydra is) and what have you.

(How about this recka. If i'm town, both of your hyrdas are IP banned from this site forever. I'll take the exact same bet. If im scum, I'm gone. Want to?)

I made a case on you. You seem to think because I have 6 votes on me my argument is invaild. You're wrong.

preview: that whole post was directed at Agar.

singer:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

[Guderian]

Alert: this is the last post I will post any sort of defense about.

-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

1. Correct. But, what I got was what the town got. I'm not concerned with how you find my attitude. You obviously don't like me.
2. REACTIONS.
3. To be honest, I didn't anticipate this gang bang to occur. Seriously. Why Would I draw attention to myself like that.
4. REACTIONS. Like recka/agar scum, with one prob off the wagon. Thinking confid/rhinox. Maybe more. Most of the scum wont want to be involved in this terrible mislynch when it happens.

[Guderian]

Hello all,

My name is Conrad. For the last week and a half, I have been on vacation. During that time, my little brother saw fit to start using this account to play some game. Instead of not using this account, he has abused it.

I have just returned. I have read this game, and from what I can see, I would like to deeply apologize to all people playing this game. Instead of a game of mafia being what it should be, a fun gathering of like minded people, he-- and this account-- have turned it into a virtual cesspit.

I am greatly offended and saddened by what has happened here. Being courteous to your fellow man and woman, respectful, Is what I hold most dear in this world. This has been grievously violated.

I understand if you no longer want to continue having this account in the game. At this point, I can either replace out, be lynched, or whatever the players in this game may choose. Nothing excuses this behavior. Losing is one thing, being a dick totally another.

Thank you,

Conrad

[Guderian]

If you would like me to replace out at this point I am totally fine and agree with that at this point.