Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[RedCoyote]

I'm not worried. My boy Vas will stand up for me. Isn't that right, Vas?

[RedCoyote]

IMO, we should lynch RedCoyote and investigate Antihero tonight. If Antihero's protown, we let the scums nightkill his useless llurking ass. If he's scum, we lynch him next.

Well in

MY

o, we should lynch AGar and investigate Nocmen. What do you say to that, buddy?

[Nachomamma8]

RC, you said you were uncomfortable with the LMP wagon because I wasn't on it.
And now, you're pushing an AGar wagon when I'm directly telling you that I'm opposed to it.

What's the logic behind this?

[VasudeVa]

I'm not worried. My boy Vas will stand up for me. Isn't that right, Vas?

Huh?

Vote: RC

[Nocmen]

RC: What do you think about people following (as I mentioned with Lowell), or actively lurking (Lowell, Haylen, Anti, etc)?

[Haylen]

I had internet problems, then my work decided to mess with me and the stress gave me a 3 day migraine which I'm just getting over.

AGar, write a proper case on me now. That I can respond to, one without ad homs if you please.

AGar

I can't find anything bad about his early posts, they just seem like normal random voting stage banter to me. That is, until he goes and places a vote on Glork which he does not explain. This in affect would allow him to coast through the game until it's noticed, which would also give him time for him to think of a non-RVS reason why he would want to vote for Glork. This is especially considering the majority of that particular post is in reference to Jack's early fakeclaim. He also gives a read on Empking, again without providing reasons for it. (Oh he does it in his next post, but I still don't like it when people don't give reasons for their opinions there and then)

The early bantar between himself and LMP smells a lot like distancing to me. It seems like a really basic thing for two players to argue about, something anti-town enough to be picked up on, but not scummy enough for either of the two to be lynched due to it. Then, loe and behold, in his #8th iso post, AGar admits he 'misunderstood' and unvotes him - still like distancing.

He also then accuses Xine of being scummy without giving reasons for it. Giving that the majority of the talk was about her at the time that post was made, it makes sense that he would use this to sheep off the opinions of others. Scummy because it allows him to fence sit and fit in with the town at the same time.

I change my mind. I believe Nachomamma's claim.

UK has seen the meta light?! Wheeeeeeeeee

Was this actually advocating the use of meta? Funny considering he seems to hate meta later on in the game and that seems to be why he wants me lynched. This equals hypocrisy of AGars part.

After being pushed one his reads, AGar explains them but they are really unexplained and just read as though he has copied what others are thinking without trying to form a proper opinion of his own.

He then suddenly switches and decides I'm scum based on a massively misrepresentation of myself with regards to my opinion on CJ conforming with the rest of the group. Any idiot can see why I would think the way I had. So what if I didn't realise he hadn't confirmed before that post? My page whatever it was, the majority of players have already confirmed and the game is well under way. AGar managed to change an honest mistake where the rest of my argument was sound, into a massive Strawman with mothrax. He also makes a comment about the CJ wagon being a bad wagon if you're looking for scum, CJ had only made roughly 2 posts before then, how could AGar possibly know that unless he was scum himself? Then then goes on to say that I easily slid onto the CJ wagon, which is a load of bullcrap because he himself and mothrax were berating me for a mistake I made.

I myself, find it odd that AGar told everybody not to lynch CJ even if he was a non-productive player, advocated my lynch and then accused me of being non-productive myself. You can't hold different players to different standards, cause it leads to accusations of hypocrisy - which is what I'm accusing AGar of with this!

He then accuses me of derailing a wagon against Snakeplissken who was apparently my scumbuddy, and now Snake has flipping town and AGar is still believing I'm scum. Which makes me wonder who AGar would believe is my scumbuddies now that Snake is guy since it tends to be nearly impossible to tie me to any play as town or scum.

Having been accused of being scum by myself and others, realising that people aren't going to go along with him this time. He resorts to Ad homs in his Iso 18 and this is where his play sits up to the present post. I believe he is intentionally trying to decrease peoples confidence in themselves in order to decrease the chance that they will be able to lead a lynch on him. Interesting tactic.

He is also hypocritical because he refuses to accept meta as a defence for another player, saying that he completely disregards it in game and then uses his own meta as a defence. I'm also seeing his Post 23 as being quite pressured and desperate to get votes off himself when Nikanor places a vote on him. That is not a townie mind state. A town player will not worry about votes on themself, they would have no need to get emotional or pressured, thus it satisfies the condition of a mafia mind state.

Oh yay! A vote hop onto UK! Again without giving reason! I'm beginning to see a similarity between AGars votes, guys. Admittedly she was SK, but that also meant that she needed to get rid of the mafia too, or she couldn't fullfill her win condition, meaning I truly believe she was scumhunting during thread.

WOOOOOO! Yay! More pressure rants from AGar! Iso 40.

Goes on to say my read is OMGUS. I'm going to counter that by saying OMGUS only exists in the eye of the person who originally attacked the person attacking them now. I will go even further again and say that the same is true with AtE.

He says previously that he has provided evidence for me being scum, but then later on backtracks that and says he'll provide a case when the town are interested.

Case on Haylen when the town looks interested in getting their heads out of their asses.

See?

WTF? When exactly was "everybody so happily bandwagonning" you? Because I would've jumped on in a heart beat. Don't twist the way events played out to your favor.

Either AGar is blatantly misrepping here or he hasn't read the thread. Try a couple of pages before you made that post. Still on the same day.

Hey AGar, have you ever been under so much stress and illness IRL that you've actually forgotten how to make cases and genuinely cant spot things in games that are scummy? Or been so overwhelmed by the sheer number of players in a game that you just freeze?

AND QUIT FUCKING CALLING ME USELESS ECT, I GET ENOUGH OF THAT FROM WORK. Or perhaps you are a monkey who has been trained to behave like this towards me?

Vote AGar

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 4.01

RedCoyote - 3 - Glork, Empking, VasudeVa
AGar - 2 - RedCoyote, Haylen
Antihero - 1 - Lowell
Haylen - 1 - AGar
Lowell - 1 - Nocmen

Not Voting: DemonHybrid, Xine, eldarad, Nachomamma8, Antihero

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: December 25 -- a rather odd day for a deadline, but if necessary, we will deal with that as it grows nearer

Random notes:
-- Activity check in the morning if I don't get to it tonight (sorry)
-- Please try to keep Votes outside of any type of mech or area boxes (please)

[DemonHybrid]

I did some looking around and decided that I'm okay with an RC or an Anti lynch. RC seems to be the closest to go, plus he seems to be a little eager to jump on the defensive ball when it comes to Anti.

Vote: RedCoyote

[AGar]

I didn't look at it. Lemme re-read what little material AH has and get back to you.

[AGar]

Matt, the problem with your theory is that AH came in yesterday while the LMP wagon was moving forward and didn't shuck down a vote.

Haylen, in the mean time, is an idiot.

1) Stop saying things don't exist like AtE and OMGUS because it's only in the eye of the reader and you don't like them. Everything in every game of mafia is in the eye of the reader, since we're not the other people. By your accounts, if we all went the way you did things, then no one would scumhunt.
2) No, actually I haven't. I have pretty thick skin, it takes a lot to get me bogged down. If it's too much to handle, fucking replace.

You are useless. You've tunneled on me since I attacked you. You're here now, and the only thing you comment on is me. What about the growing AH or RC wagons? What about the LMP flip? What about anything else that has happened besides me maintaining a suspicion of you?

You're dead weight to the town, and if I was a dayvig, I'd blow you into the next dimension.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RC

Nacho didn't talk us down here.

RC, you seem set that I'm scum because of someone else's actions. Since when was that in any way shape or form... logical?

[DemonHybrid]

Well, I misread the ISO. Thanks for catching that, I'm still trying to figure out the finer points of this game.

[Xine]

Haylen made a pretty good case againt you Agar, and your only response is that she is an idiot. What kind of response is that? She has repeatedly asked you for a "case" on her, and all you give is oneliners and abuse.


as far as my vote...BAA
VOTE: RC

[Nachomamma8]

That's L-1. Let me hammer.

[DemonHybrid]

And your result?

[Nachomamma8]

I have no interest in sharing an investigation at the moment.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, alright. I'm a lazy cop.
But if pressed, I'd call a RC-Nocumen-Lowell scumteam.

RC is playing more like cornered scum trying to tie himself with a few people before he dies.

Nocumen has been focused on active lurkers to the extent where he's active lurking himself.

And Lowell for crap like post #8.

I have my doubts that Antihero is scum, but y'all can lynch him when I'm dead and gone.

[DemonHybrid]

You didn't investigate anyone last night?

[RedCoyote]

RC, you said you were uncomfortable with the LMP wagon because I wasn't on it.
And now, you're pushing an AGar wagon when I'm directly telling you that I'm opposed to it.

What's the logic behind this?

I hadn't realized you had already given your results. LMP seemed like the most rational choice for your investigation, which is why I was weary about you not being on the wagon. Xine was a good alternative though.

---

RC: What do you think about people following (as I mentioned with Lowell), or actively lurking (Lowell, Haylen, Anti, etc)?

I would refer back to here for all my latest reads. There's a good chance Lowell is scum. I don't really get a scumvibe off of Haylen or Antihero. If you're asking me how I feel about these actions in general, I'd tell you they're both crappy. Following, as Lowell touched on, and as Empking, Xine, and Vas are blantantly doing, is acceptable to a degree. If everyone is a leader then nothing gets done because everyone is pulling in a different direction. Compromise, therefore, must be made. Ideally you'd want people willing to independently explain why it is they are following X (X being a person or a proposed strategy) as well as elaborate on differences of opinion they have with X when they arise.

I'm a little surprised there are folks more willing to vote me for speaking against the grain than there are folks willing to vote an Antihero or Lowell for

---

Nacho didn't talk us down here.

I mean, look it, it's a valid strategy. Let Nacho and Glork do the thinking and then vote when they tell you to. They're both probably town so, you know, as long as you're not picked, you're gold. When I say you I'm referring to anyone left.

RC, you seem set that I'm scum because of someone else's actions. Since when was that in any way shape or form... logical?

Since that someone else happens to be confirmed scum?

---

I have my doubts that Antihero is scum, but y'all can lynch him when I'm dead and gone.

That's what I've been trying to tell you!

In all seriousness, it's your show at the moment. Are you ready to lynch?

[AGar]

Haylen made a pretty good case againt you Agar, and your only response is that she is an idiot. What kind of response is that? She has repeatedly asked you for a "case" on her, and all you give is oneliners and abuse.


as far as my vote...BAA
VOTE: RC

If it's such a good case, then why aren't you helping pioneer the wagon?

Just because you're confirmed town doesn't give you a pass to play terribly and not actually act pro-town.

[Glork]

If it's such a good case, then why aren't you helping pioneer the wagon?

Just because you're confirmed town doesn't give you a pass to play terribly and not actually act pro-town.

Because RC is also scum?

Terrible "defense." Your next post had better be a treatise on why we shouldn't lynch you next, becuase you have skyrocketed up my scumlist.

[eldarad]

If anyone is thinking of hammering, hold off for a bit, I'm writing a post now.

[eldarad]

I am more than happy with the RC wagon, as he is one of the two players Yesterday who were attempting to discredit the LMPwagon.

I don't like #955 at all, the analysis doesn't ring true.
LMP's "look at these people once I'm dead!" post isn't worth taking seriously since he was a scum going down and he also ensured that his "targets" covered most of the player list. For RC to then pick a couple of those players as being more significant than others as a way of justifying a vote on AGar strikes me as disingenious.

VOTE: RC

~~~
I think Haylen's case on AGar in #980 lacks substance.
I accept the point that AGar didn't attempt to defend against it, and that's a strike against him, but it's not particuarly damning and I'm not getting any kind of scumread off AGar.

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for Antihero.

[Haylen]

Lacks substance in what way.

[Glork]

Eldarad/AGar connection noted.