Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[DavidParker]

I made this a separate post as it was a "preview edit" (I did partially respond to the preview edit, simply because I saw pine suggest me +brent were scum buddies and had to laugh at his most recent "flail"):

@Pine: Just what questions do you want me to asnwer? I'll go re-read through quickly but I'm not quite sure what you want explaining.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh hey someone already said the fact that he posted 6 times when he said he was supposed to be away. I missed the specific number. :\ I completely missed that even though it was in the center of the post I quoted.

Pine, Llama's actions are the reason for my theory. Your scrambling defense only makes me feel stronger about it. You can't keep playing the newbie card on me and no, I do not think Llama is protecting town.

Also, I read a game where DP was the doctor and aggressiveness is definitely his playing style.

Spoiler:

Hmpf. Seems like anything i say even if it's meant as lighting all the options is simply thrown away and regarded as scrambling defense or paranaoid defense or sth. If we go by your logic it's suspicious how you defend DP in this last post. It could mean you and him are scum buddies. Same logic as with your case about me and Llama. And also let's not forget about that early post #24 of his. It's the same deal. I would also like if you point me to this game you're talking about.
Let the man speak on his own already. He doesn't need you and mirror answering my questions and accusations meant for him. It enables him to lurk around without having to answer anything. When i'll want you answering a question of mine i'll make sure it's a question for you, and not for DP.

I have played no newbie card on you. I have simply put light so many other options your theory can be seen as. If you wish to read it as a scrambling defense it's up to you. But it's been said many times that anything can be taken as anything if you believe in it. You seem to believe in your theory a lot. That's why i decided to show you the hole in your theory plus other options that are entirely possible.

@BrentM: I disagree with you saying the defense was a scrambling one. Although I doesn't remove my suspicion of him, he does make a representable case. He explained himself for the VOT vote; giving solid reasoning behind it. It was a vote to convince him to speak up, it probably wasn't intended to get him lynched.

@DP: I have to agree with pine on this one, your eagerness to lynch Pine just doesn't feel right. It feels just so...sure of itself. Either it's you being a reckless townie or scum trying to get someone lynched. If not for you creating evidence of your own to back your claims on occasion I would blame you for just trying to blend into the crowd to avoid suspicion.

@Pine: Although you are still the top on my scum-suspicion list, you have provided a case for yourself. A case that, for the time being, keeps my vote off of you. I do not think you have much solid evidence for yourself though. Merely your attitude doesn't feel extraordinarily scummy to me (could just be that my scum-radar hasn't developed). You do make a huge thing about the "Llama and you being scum buddies" thing that I don't agree with though. Yes the accusation assumes you are scum, this is true, but don't all accusations? We know there are 2 scum, both are looking out for each other, you and Llama follow this quite perfectly. It is to our best interest to discover who could be your possible accomplice if you turn out to be scum, that way we have something to go off D2.

@Llama: I really want to hear from you, your disappearance is quite suspicious.

Preview Edit: OK wall post by DP, let me just finish this post and I'll read it.

[DavidParker]

If we go by your logic it's suspicious how you defend DP in this last post. It could mean you and him are scum buddies. Same logic as with your case about me and Llama. And also let's not forget about that early post #24 of his. It's the same deal. I would also like if you point me to this game you're talking about.
Let the man speak on his own already. He doesn't need you and mirror answering my questions and accusations meant for him. It enables him to lurk around without having to answer anything. When i'll want you answering a question of mine i'll make sure it's a question for you, and not for DP.

I'm sorry but this is just another scummy statement of Pine's. I agree Brent did "defend" me to a certain extent, (he posted a case on llama+pine being scum, and suggested I was town, that's defending to a certain extent, but he didn't "fight my battle for me") but the best part of this: Pine telling brent to let me answer the questions and accusations myself. What questions? I just read back through your last couple posts, you aren't questioning me at all, you don't even make any accusations, just say "Oh I don't agree that DP is town for aggressively pushing a lynch as part of a personality thing, in fact I think he's scum", that's all you've said, There's nothing to respond to.


Once again, you then repeat: "Question for DP" in your post.

WHERE ARE THESE QUESTIONS!?!?!? In fact, you've stated me as your most likely scum candidate, but your recent posts just ignore me and just included a little line at the end saying "oh i think DP is scum". Stop flailing.



Sidenote: I'd fully support a push on Pine's wagon at this point, leading to a claim, and a subsequent hammer with the way he has acted recently. A scum flip is almost certain.

[BrentM]

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

[DavidParker]

Brent, what are your thoughts on the pine case (largely seen in my huge wall and the few posts after it) as compared to the llama case?

[DavidParker]

Also, what is everyone's opinions on Tanstalas' "role speculation" that I brought up? Do you find it valid?

[BrentM]

@DP, I think both are probably scum, but after analyzing each of Llama's posts, I feel pretty strong about him being scum as opposed to tanst. I could go with either pine or llama.

[MirrorIrorriM]

BIIIIG wall post

Also, what is everyone's opinions on Tanstalas' "role speculation" that I brought up? Do you find it valid?

I'm really just digesting your comeback. I don't like how you had nothing about the accusation with me and you being scumbuddies though. You being so nice to me really puts off a bad image.

Your analyzation of Pine and his case blow mine away. Mostly because you have the experience to know what is and what isn't a scum-tell whereas I do not. Mostly your accusations are based on the the assumption that Pine is flailing desperately to get the attention off of him. Something which a struggling scum would no doubt do.

Your accusation that King's wall post was crap confuses me. I thought it was quite good.

As to your speculation of Tanstalas trying to expose the power roles; I think it is a stretch. It seems like he is trying to give advice as one of the non-newbies here. I feel like it was quite an honest attempt at helping (again for the millionth time, this could be my newbishness showing).

I really feel like Llama is more scum then Tanstalas though. Llama practically lied with the whole "away for finals" thing. He remained active in other games but ignored this one. Seems awfully convenient for him to just avoid this game after making the accusations and points that he did. Keeps the blame/attention off of him you know?

[DavidParker]

I prefer to avoid using "out of game" information such as that to scum hunt. I have actually done a V/LA in a game of mine while posting in another game in the past simply because I was busy but could keep up with one game but not another that required more attention.

Meh, it wasn't really an accusation towards King's wall post, he admits it himself, it's just a long post of his thoughts and the happenings. He doesn't really delve further. It wasn't "bad" it just wasn't the "scum-hunting masterpiece" that Pine made it to be.

Trust me when I say "scum tells" constantly change with site meta, individual player meta, and just general game setup and strategy. If you think through how scum would act and what they would do, your guess as to what could be a scum tell is probably as good as mine, although you will see some "commonly accepted" scum-tells on the site, however, scum obviously know about them so scum tells can become quite meaningless, and you really just have to look at player intent and behaviour.

[LlamaFluff]

For what Brent has been saying, his entire case hinges on Pine being scum first. If Pine is town, just about every point against me is gone since I am no longer trying to "get suspicion off a scum buddy". Im calling Brent, DP town and solidly leaning Pine as town here. Especially Brent for his recent posts.

@Brent - Am I also scum if Pine is town?
@Mirror - If you want me to scan my note page for the finals ive already taken I will. I am making about two posts a day and posted last 24 hours ago. That is not bad for activity when my other game posts were in an ultra-fast paced game (35 pages in two weeks including thanksgiving) that was reaching deadline/starting day.
@Mirror - Do you think that DP is scum or town?
@tans - I can link you to my last game as scum, but its been over a month ago now I think.

~~~~

Mirror is still really setting off alarms for me on mostly a gut level, but there are some things there that are decent tells. Recently we have things like his wierd move to the Pine wagon.

For a long time he called him scum, but was amazingly reluctant to vote him, it really seemed like it was a forced move more than anything else. You can compare this with his vote on lunatic which seemed to just be a quick move. I do not understand what seems to be more of a fear in putting Pine at L-1 when he thinks that he is scum. Its worth noting that his vote on lunatic was a L-2 vote, and on much less evidence presented by him, this upping of the anti or whatever better analogy you can come up with feels wrong.

This puts him at L-1, I request that no one hammer him yet; we have 2 weeks to go here people, we might be able to find his scumbuddy.

Not as sure if this is a tell, but its worth pointing out at this point that its a bad thing to do, and scum LOVE to do it. If you start searching for a partner before night, scum can manipulate the heck out of reads, and have better ideas of what good night actions are. Especially with Pine not being confirmed scum, if Pine flips scum, we just got two weeks of noise to deal with. Starting step B before step A finishes can cause problems.

Here its a good time to point out that manipulation is not necessarily a scum tell. Its worth the time to try and guide other players into doing what you want them to do as town. I have done it plenty of times when I see people not really listening to things that I am saying, just try and nudge them there subtely instead of putting up walls of text. Also its a great thing to do if you are a PR to get people to follow information you may have without claiming.

If to make a point more then anything else

unvote
Vote Mirror

[lunaticlucas]

The more I read. the more I'm leaning pine for scum. I just can't bring myself to vote for him yet.

I'm still new to the game so I was wondering if everyone could give a list of their scum tells?

[BrentM]

@Llama, no you wouldn't. But I think Pine is scum based on your reactions to his gameplay. I asked previously, but why did you state so early that DP was town? Also, why did you get a scummy vibe from pine at one point but now think he is town?

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama, no you wouldn't. But I think Pine is scum based on your reactions to his gameplay. I asked previously, but why did you state so early that DP was town? Also, why did you get a scummy vibe from pine at one point but now think he is town?

So then both the reads of pine-scum and me-scum are entirely dependent on the other being scum? You seem to be saying that the only reason I am scum is that Pine is scum, and the only reason that Pine is scum is that I am scum.

I stated that DP is town beacuse I got a solid read on DP early on. Im of the camp that professing your town reads is a perfectly fine thing to do in games.

Pine I have changed my tune on due to not really liking the wagon that is forming on him. Most of the people that are voting him are people that I have somewhat of a scumread on, which is a sign of a mislynch in most games. This coupled with the reaction posts that Pine has been putting up make me thing that he is town.

@lunatic - Tells are very fluids. They differ depending on setup, experience of the player, state of the game, etc. There is no universal tell.

[Pinewolf]

This is starting to be really frustrating. Making me even pissed of a bit. As i said i hate to have to repeat myself, but once again, my reasoning is completely ignored and it’s assumed i’m scum no matter what. Most of what i did can be ties to tatalas’s post where he gave some advice. I’m merely following that. It’s what the expirienced players are here for, to help us newbies with any questions or advice. Something DP is clearly not doing, which again can be seen as suspicious.

Now on to the answering all the posts.

I'm still pretty sure Pine is scum.

All his posts just aren't thought through using town logic.

I am terribly sorry, like really very very sorry to be a newbie. I have no idea what town logic or what scum logic would be. Please explain that thoroughly with examples or poor newbie me will have no clue what you’re talking about.
At the start of the game i have tried to make some cases and push the discussion forward. Now where has this brought me? To everybody accusing me of being scum, ignoring most of what i say and just interpret anything i say to be a scum tell. Especially you DP. You are FAR too sure of yourself. I’ll address this more further down.

Oh cool. You just said the 2 people who were pushing your lynch the hardest are the two scummiest people in the game and are likely scum buddies. I would classify that as "flailing" around and getting a bit desperate. (It's a bit silly to bring up site meta, but that's just something that doesn't really occur, blatant support of scum buddies etc, although meta alone isn't really reason to explain why it's silly). It's silly because it's a huge OMGUS. You just stated the two people who are the scummiest are the two going after you and your reasoning is because the way we are pushing so hard for your lynch is scummy... Umm okay. That's silly.

As far as i know, i have only accused you of trying to push for a lynch too much. Which is no fairy tale. You did. NO going away from that anymore. It’s there. Everyone has seen it. You are the more expirienced player of the 2, mirror is just a newbie. Just like me, or brent, or lunatic or king. Mirror is said is not far behind. And you wanna know the exact reason why? Of course you do. It’s something i also said already. He was ignoring half (or so) the stuff in my posts and just rambling on with his accusations. He admited he was just trying to pressure myself and that’s ok. What you’re doing is not just pressuring me. You’re pushing for a lynch because you, and ONLY you are 100% certain i am scum. Why would you be so sure i am scum? Are you scum and you know who the townies are and you just picked the one with the most heat on him and decided he’ll be your target? Here’s 2 questions for you. For real this time.
As far as saying it’s OMGUS, i don’t think so. Considering that it was mostly a 3 way convo, of course i looked for potential mistakes in both your posts. I also pointed them all out. But like everything you toss them away, which is something I was accused of. Namely just disregarding the cases against me. Which was bullshit and was shown that way as well.

Then your number 3 is a lurker who has done nothing. Firstly, your calling out the people going after you as scummy, then you throw down the "hey the lurker guy is scum!", which is just a typical deflection move that scum use on day 1 when they are under pressure. They want to try start another wagon or get people to notice someone else scummy sot hey highlight someone who has done something that's a slight scum tell (ie: lurking) and try push a case. But really, pushing this case doesn't help town. If you think VOT is scummy you would pressure him to post more and post more content, and ask him questions. Voting him and calling him a lurker does NOTHING. That is not pro-town behaviour.

We already established that we disagree as far as lurkers goes. So i’ll ignore the lurker stuff. But. What i am interested in is why do you think only a scummy player would go and point fingers at others trying to divert the attention? (oh my, another question for our dear DP). Why do you think a town player that is getting attacked for his every post would not deploy the same strategy? (another one omg). And sorry if i’m wrong but i thought the point of this game was trying to find the scum, not deciding to look at one player and only that player disregarding all the other options as that is clearly what you are doing right now.

I'm sorry. I actually chuckled to myself. I was actually going to respond to King's post and just tear it to peaces but I can see he's trying. (And I think he's probably town but due to different reasons to you, I just get a newbie town vibe from him). King's huge wall post was useless. What good points did he make or solid cases???
ALL king did was quote mass posts and explain what happened in a post by post format. That's useless. He just repeated what was in all the posts and posted nothing of substantial worth. Maybe there was 1 or 2 good points in the huge wall, but overall it was generally useless (apologies for the harsh words king, i know you seem new but that's just my impression of your post)
Seriously, go re-read his wall (173) and tell me how much of that was anything new or actual thought out opinions. It was just a commentary of what people said. Useless. Yet, you claimed he's town because of it.

I’m sorry for being a newbie. I really am. To me it seemed the way i said it did. If you and your expirience think otherwise, fine. OK. I’m am totally fine with it.

Essentially, your posts don't show town-like thought and reasoning. Your town read on king is entirely off because he hasn't done anything in terms of useful scum hunting with solid reasoning and good cases. He posted a huge wall of "blah". If anything, I find him slightly town because he's making an effort and has done some newbie-town tells. But often, you'll find newbie-scums who play in these games by making mass wall posts responding and commenting on everything (kinda like king did) as their way of "scum-hunting" and seeming "pro-town". As it stands, I don't think king is scum but that's subject to change. I also partly think he's town, because I'm pretty sure you're scum and this just gives me the impression of scum buddying to town by calling his posts useful and solid reasoning etc etc.

Once again, sorry for being new and not really having the hang of what you consider town-like thought and reasoning. I do stuff the way i think is right. And clearly i was wrong somewhere as i’m getting atattcked left, right, behind and front... About king addresses above.
Also once again, that great certainty that i’m scum. Also already addresed.

So i'm guessing one of these two is your scum buddy.

No. You are. Remember?

@Pine: Oh dear, you just keep offering me more and more bait. You now suggest Brent and I are scum buddies? So basically anyone who attacks you is a likely scum buddy with me because I'm attacking you (the most), and if two people are attacking you they are scum buddies.. That's some poorly thought out reasoning.

Don’t be so self centered please and reread my post. It was mostly a hypotetical post explaining how accusations of scum partners are pretty much pointless until you have one of them dead. I only mentioned you because he mentioned you in his post. It’s quite simple really. If i go by your logic from this reply i should see you, brent and mirror as a scum trio and that doesn’t really work, now does it?

Final point: I think it's more likely tanst is scum with Pine than Llama at this point. Tanst has stated how he's "slowly warming to pine being town" which seems silly from an experienced player. Pine has done nothing to show himself as being more town than before. All he has done is post more and respond to more accusations, but he hasn't done it well.

Hasn’t done it well... Your opinions. And you are too sure i’m scum. No, you are already convinced i am scum. Nothing i post will change your mind. I know your kind, trust me on that.

@Pine: Just what questions do you want me to asnwer? I'll go re-read through quickly but I'm not quite sure what you want explaining.

Nevermind. It was mostly useless question, more like accusations now that i read again. I put some into this post i want you to answer. I’m pretty you can find them. If not i’ll make sure to underline them next time.

@Pine: Although you are still the top on my scum-suspicion list, you have provided a case for yourself. A case that, for the time being, keeps my vote off of you. I do not think you have much solid evidence for yourself though. Merely your attitude doesn't feel extraordinarily scummy to me (could just be that my scum-radar hasn't developed). You do make a huge thing about the "Llama and you being scum buddies" thing that I don't agree with though. Yes the accusation assumes you are scum, this is true, but don't all accusations? We know there are 2 scum, both are looking out for each other, you and Llama follow this quite perfectly. It is to our best interest to discover who could be your possible accomplice if you turn out to be scum, that way we have something to go off D2.

I merely posted other options to that theory. Simple as that. Already addresed.

I'm sorry but this is just another scummy statement of Pine's. I agree Brent did "defend" me to a certain extent, (he posted a case on llama+pine being scum, and suggested I was town, that's defending to a certain extent, but he didn't "fight my battle for me") but the best part of this: Pine telling brent to let me answer the questions and accusations myself. What questions? I just read back through your last couple posts, you aren't questioning me at all, you don't even make any accusations, just say "Oh I don't agree that DP is town for aggressively pushing a lynch as part of a personality thing, in fact I think he's scum", that's all you've said, There's nothing to respond to.


Once again, you then repeat: "Question for DP" in your post.

WHERE ARE THESE QUESTIONS!?!?!? In fact, you've stated me as your most likely scum candidate, but your recent posts just ignore me and just included a little line at the end saying "oh i think DP is scum". Stop flailing.



Sidenote: I'd fully support a push on Pine's wagon at this point, leading to a claim, and a subsequent hammer with the way he has acted recently. A scum flip is almost certain.

First part already addresed. Second already addresed.
Last part, once again his great assurness of me being scum. Suspicious. Also explained why suspicious.

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

Well, ok. Putting like that i might have, but we are all newbies here (well, almost), so nothing too weird there...

You are allowed to do anything you want just as i’m allowed to do anything i want.

For what Brent has been saying, his entire case hinges on Pine being scum first. If Pine is town, just about every point against me is gone since I am no longer trying to "get suspicion off a scum buddy".

[/quote][/quote]

Exactly what i said, but nobody listens to me and are totaly sure of their posts, so they disregard mine and put them to their scum tell pile, no matter the content.


I think this concludes my massive wall of text post. All i want to add is that If the attitude seems a bit too aggresive to any of you or sth it’s because i’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, which i already said yesterday.

Lastly, I can agree with Llama’s view on things. What he pointed out about mirror seems like a good point even though i don’t think DP is completely town. Though another idea popped into my head right now. Which i won’t reveal as it was said that it’s not such a good idea to do and it may destroy the town’s chances. But if i’m right it could mean good things for town. Just don’t waste it DP.

Though it’s only a hunch, but all i can do is post hunches and try to find some irregularities in other people’s posts as most of the time i have to defend myself.

[Pinewolf]

Ugh, sorry for the wall of text, but i felt like i need to post this. Just fyi, this takes up almost whole 5 pages on MS Word.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Spoiler:

For what Brent has been saying, his entire case hinges on Pine being scum first. If Pine is town, just about every point against me is gone since I am no longer trying to "get suspicion off a scum buddy". Im calling Brent, DP town and solidly leaning Pine as town here. Especially Brent for his recent posts.

@Brent - Am I also scum if Pine is town?
@Mirror - If you want me to scan my note page for the finals ive already taken I will. I am making about two posts a day and posted last 24 hours ago. That is not bad for activity when my other game posts were in an ultra-fast paced game (35 pages in two weeks including thanksgiving) that was reaching deadline/starting day.
@Mirror - Do you think that DP is scum or town?
@tans - I can link you to my last game as scum, but its been over a month ago now I think.

~~~~

Mirror is still really setting off alarms for me on mostly a gut level, but there are some things there that are decent tells. Recently we have things like his wierd move to the Pine wagon.

For a long time he called him scum, but was amazingly reluctant to vote him, it really seemed like it was a forced move more than anything else. You can compare this with his vote on lunatic which seemed to just be a quick move. I do not understand what seems to be more of a fear in putting Pine at L-1 when he thinks that he is scum. Its worth noting that his vote on lunatic was a L-2 vote, and on much less evidence presented by him, this upping of the anti or whatever better analogy you can come up with feels wrong.

This puts him at L-1, I request that no one hammer him yet; we have 2 weeks to go here people, we might be able to find his scumbuddy.

Not as sure if this is a tell, but its worth pointing out at this point that its a bad thing to do, and scum LOVE to do it. If you start searching for a partner before night, scum can manipulate the heck out of reads, and have better ideas of what good night actions are. Especially with Pine not being confirmed scum, if Pine flips scum, we just got two weeks of noise to deal with. Starting step B before step A finishes can cause problems.

Here its a good time to point out that manipulation is not necessarily a scum tell. Its worth the time to try and guide other players into doing what you want them to do as town. I have done it plenty of times when I see people not really listening to things that I am saying, just try and nudge them there subtely instead of putting up walls of text. Also its a great thing to do if you are a PR to get people to follow information you may have without claiming.

If to make a point more then anything else

unvote
Vote Mirror

Your accusation that I just made some "quick move" to vote for Lunatic is simply not true. I had posted saying I didn't like the vibe of his posts, saying it was suspicious and I had the whole "leadership role" and "he is just jumping on an already popular wagon" thing. After King did his post showing that Lunatic played totally different in other games, I took this (being new) as irrefutable evidence and jumped on it. I later learned that metas aren's as reliable as I thought. Which is why I no longer pursued the case, simply because he has so few posts I couldn't form and hold an accusation at the time.

My thing about having an odd switch up with Pine is simply because I was very caught between them both. I really could not decide who I thought was more scummy. I just sorta staggered at parts and voted for whichever one offered a better gut feeling at the time. Although now I don't think Lunatic is as scummy as Pine.

I feared putting Pine as L-1 cause I was afraid scum would lynch him right off the bat and we would never learn anything from him or he wouldn't be able to offer a case if he was innocent. I later learned this is horrible practice for mafia (makes sense) as it reveals them.

Your accusation that scum love to try and get scumbuddies before conclusive evidence is placed on someone also I can deny. Doesn't it make sense to try and learn as much as possible in one day? What is better, just lynching someone who you know to be scum (no one in particular, just a term used in example); or lynching them, and also learning who their buddies are, their respective roles in the mafia, and everyone they are pursuing and why? I thought it would be best to try and look to see who his scum buddy would be, because he really does mark me as the scummiest person here. Except right now I feel it is you (but that is totally bias cause you are pushing me right now, ask me in 2 rl days and I will probably have a different opinion.)

Your whole thing of manipulation as a townie just isn't right in my mind. :\ Town have no real reason to ever lie or bend the truth. Everything can be deduced with honesty and justice if you try hard enough.

Preview Edit: OK huge wall post by Pine, gonna have to read up on that and comment later.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Llama

I forgot to answer your question about whether I think DP is scum or not. Truth is I really don't like how he sounds. He just comes in and destroys cases. Not like he comes in and provides tons of evidence though. He went into King's post and goes "I could pick this thing apart, but I wont". He gives off a vibe of being so sure of himself it is suspicious. He is pushy, especially towards me (I'm easily manipulated I admit). He just assumes a leadership position, something which was half of my case against Lunatic. If all this Pine stuff turns out to just be some futile argument among townies, he is definitely going to shoot to the top of my suspicion list. My biggest vibe against him is how hard he is pushing Pine. I think Pine is scum for the most part, no doubting that. But he acts like he KNOWS your scum. I said this before I think; DP acts like either a completely reckless town, or a scum pushing a popular wagon (Pine's).

[DavidParker]

Pushy towards you? I've just been ignoring you mostly because I'm pretty sure you are town.

I'm confident enough in my scum read on Pine that I am happy to push it. I'm also happy enough with the way my playstyle comes through that even if Pine flips town that won't necessarily backfire on me although it's quite probable it will.


@Pine:

i have only accused you of trying to push for a lynch too much

Exactly. That's all you've accused me of. How is that even scummy? If you thought someone was scummy, surely you would push for their lynch. That's how this game works. You figure out or try to figure out who scum are and try get them lynched. That's what I'm doing. And you are saying me scum-hunting is a scum-tell. That's where I see your biggest slip to be. I agree I can be self-centered and overly confident, but that's my way of pushing my case and trying to show others how scummy you have been (and to further my case on you, as rude/aggressive behaviour is more likely to get a reaction from you so I can confirm my scum-read; something that has happened)

As for your questions and "requests" for explanations, I have no desire to get into some distracting "back and forth" with you. Especially now since you are treating this whole thing as a joke ("I am terribly sorry, like really very very sorry to be a newbie. I have no idea what town logic or what scum logic would be. Please explain that thoroughly with examples or poor newbie me will have no clue what you’re talking about." ).

Furthering a back and forth argument between the two of us will distract town and not benefit us in later scum hunting.


@Llama: What do you think of the merit behind the role-speculation I commented on with regard to Tanst's post?

[BrentM]

You are right Llama, I think you and Pine both are scum, but I also have a weird vibe about you and DP. DP is so sure of Pine but tried to deflect mirror and I from you, who shows signs of working with his prime suspect. Throw in the random DP town claim by you too.

i will leave my vote as is, unless someone convinces me to switch to pine.

[Pinewolf]

Exactly. That's all you've accused me of. How is that even scummy? If you thought someone was scummy, surely you would push for their lynch. That's how this game works. You figure out or try to figure out who scum are and try get them lynched. That's what I'm doing. And you are saying me scum-hunting is a scum-tell. That's where I see your biggest slip to be. I agree I can be self-centered and overly confident, but that's my way of pushing my case and trying to show others how scummy you have been (and to further my case on you, as rude/aggressive behaviour is more likely to get a reaction from you so I can confirm my scum-read; something that has happened)

As for your questions and "requests" for explanations, I have no desire to get into some distracting "back and forth" with you. Especially now since you are treating this whole thing as a joke ("I am terribly sorry, like really very very sorry to be a newbie. I have no idea what town logic or what scum logic would be. Please explain that thoroughly with examples or poor newbie me will have no clue what you’re talking about." ).

Furthering a back and forth argument between the two of us will distract town and not benefit us in later scum hunting.

I'm not saying you shouldn't scum hunt. Never said that, never implied that. Just that i disagree with your reasoning, which is to be expected.
I've done some thinking, i can see you being town. This is far too pushy for a mafia member... Please read the end of my giant post again, i hope you can think of what i'm implying. I'm not gonna repeat myself on that.

But with all seriousnes. I really am interested in your definition on town logic and scum logic.

[DavidParker]

Random Topic of Thought/Lesson for the Day

:

Something of recent from newer players has caught my attention. Scum-buddy speculation: People are jumping to the conclusion that someone who is scum will or is most likely to state that their scum buddy is town. From past experience and current site meta, You'll actually notice it's slightly more common to see scum go after their scum buddy (to some extent, ie: bussing) or to distance themselves from their scum buddy and claim a "neutral/unsure" read on them. Everyone seems to be jumping to this idea that two people in complete agreement and calling each other town = likely scum buddies. You'll find more often than not, that one is town and the other is scum, and the scum is merely buddying up to the other player, but they aren't scum buddies.

With that said. I'm not off to sleep (it's fricking 5 am, this game is too addictive) and I have work all day so will report back in 18ish hours

[DavidParker]

Preview edit: response to come laterrrrrrrrr. night.

[MirrorIrorriM]

If what DP says it true, then this game is going to be a heck of alot harder then I thought.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Probably will be absent for 4-6 hours. Just a heads up.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
I'm confident enough in my scum read on Pine that I am happy to push it. I'm also happy enough with the way my playstyle comes through that even if Pine flips town that won't necessarily backfire on me although it's quite probable it will.

You really should not be as confident or "happy to push" about this as you are. At all. It WILL backfire on you if he flips town.

@Pine:

i have only accused you of trying to push for a lynch too much

Exactly. That's all you've accused me of. How is that even scummy? If you thought someone was scummy, surely you would push for their lynch. That's how this game works. You figure out or try to figure out who scum are and try get them lynched. That's what I'm doing. And you are saying me scum-hunting is a scum-tell. That's where I see your biggest slip to be. I agree I can be self-centered and overly confident, but that's my way of pushing my case and trying to show others how scummy you have been (and to further my case on you, as rude/aggressive behaviour is more likely to get a reaction from you so I can confirm my scum-read; something that has happened)

I believe Pine is saying that you are pushing for him to an absurd degree. I believe the term is "tunneling." I have to say I agree with him after what you said after this.

As for your questions and "requests" for explanations, I have no desire to get into some distracting "back and forth" with you. Especially now since you are treating this whole thing as a joke ("I am terribly sorry, like really very very sorry to be a newbie. I have no idea what town logic or what scum logic would be. Please explain that thoroughly with examples or poor newbie me will have no clue what you’re talking about." ).

Furthering a back and forth argument between the two of us will distract town and not benefit us in later scum hunting.
...

Hey David, wanna know how this read to me?

I refuse to help town by answering your questions as that would slow down your lynching. Also I think of your questions as a joke to lesson the responsibility I have as town to answer them. Oh wait I'm not town so I don't care.

That last part is a "subtle" indication of where you are right now in my mental list of scummyness. Seriously, you make a big deal about looking into people's reasoning and motivation to do things and then you go and refuse to answer questions posed to you like this. I can see no town motivation, other than sheer impatience or incompetence, both of which reflect badly enough on you for me not to feel bad about this, to refuse to answer someone's questions in an attempt to speed up their lynch like this so early in day 1, we have over 2 weeks left.

VOTE: DavidParker