Magician's Mafia: The Hypnotists, Game Over

[Toogeloo]

aww...

[Fate]

I think Fate should apologize for my lynch, which was absolutely horrific.

I was THIS close to switching it onto raz, I swear.

Blame zabdolfini...blame Fate.


GG Toog you had it in the bag even though I caught you d2 (ask ellie), I was dead

[Katsuki]

So many things to be angry with here.

Kat not claiming until the doom rained down.
Kat going Toog is town yo (although this isn't as irritating as the previous).
DGB going crazy on me AND abandoning her VCA to vote me. Grrr
YOU BUNCH OF MALCONTENTS LYNCHING ME BEFORE I COULD EVEN TALK.
CES not looking at how weird Toog's lynch on me over rationalization.

And, of course:

NO ONE TALKING ABOUT HOW THE POWER SETUP DIDNT LINE UP.
GOD.

Say what you want Toog about how being goons made it soo stacked against you if you jerks had flipped goons instead of crazy roles there would have been a bloodbath.

Dealing with pending lynch while in an important class does not make for the best scenarios, just saying.

[gandalf5166]

The fact that I RECEIVED Zandolfini is hilarious. I thought the name of the role had been tailored to my username to sound like a bad fakeclaim, but apparently it was that from the beginning >.>

[Toogeloo]

GG Toog you had it in the bag even though I caught you d2 (ask ellie), I was dead

One of the reasons I knew you had to go. Ellie didn't want you dead, but out of everyone on the playlist, you would be the only person I wasn't sure I could fool due our time together on Board 8. Most people on mafiascum don't know me, so it was a little to my advantage to kill people that knew me first, and leave those who didn't to the end.

Magna knows me from our Newbie game where we nailed two scum in Day 1 together, so I figured he would know that I was scum pretty quick if I didn't take him out (Dead QT actually makes me happy I had him fooled for a long time). You had your extensive experience with me, especially my scum play, on Board 8, so you were going to die on Night 0 or 1. Ghost was the only other player I was a little worried about, because he saw my town play in a recent game we just played, but I figured I could fool him a little easier than you and Magna. DGB coming into the game late had me a little worried, but since she was my tunnel for the game, I was able to play off of it.

Beyond that, I wasn't too worried about the rest of the play list because they had little experience with my style of play. I'm frankly surprised I didn't get the "he's too town," routine I always seem guilty of regardless of alignment. This is probably the first game that it hasn't come up.


I look forward to playing again when I get back from Canada ^_^.

[Ellibereth]

hihihilurk to victory.
PANDABEAR WAS AN AWESOME PANDABEAR.
and yeah....I think I wanted to kill Mag because didn't feel like having to read long posts. I didn't end up reaching much either way...

[SpyreX]

Beyond that, I wasn't too worried about the rest of the play list because they had little experience with my style of play. I'm frankly surprised I didn't get the "he's too town," routine I always seem guilty of regardless of alignment. This is probably the first game that it hasn't come up.

If that had came up you'd have had an even more impressive win because I would have been a rabid wolf.

GOD I wish we had lynched one of you two on the important day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

hihihilurk to victory.
PANDABEAR WAS AN AWESOME PANDABEAR.
and yeah....I think I wanted to kill Mag because didn't feel like having to read long posts. I didn't end up reaching much either way...

How is reading long posts a problem when you lurk and don't do crap in the game again?

It's not like you actually read the game anyway.

[Ellibereth]

I just didn't feel like looking at long posts....
and yeah, I wasn't planning on not reading anything.

[Toogeloo]

PJ, could we get the night actions, please ^_^...? I'm interested in seeing how many PRs had us dead to rights over the course of the game.

[petroleumjelly]

Mafia

Hypnotoad, the Hypnotist

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

~

Sosuke Aizen, the Hypnotist

The betrayal you see is trivial. What is truly fearsome, is the betrayal that you don’t see…

~

The Master, the Hypnotist

I am The Master and you will obey me!

~

The Brain, the Hypnotist

The same thing we do every night, Pinky…

You and three other powerful hypnotists have decided to show magicians that their time has come. No longer should the world be amused by illusory powers; true power lies in the mind, and the ability of mind control. Your partners are

XXX (---)

,

YYY (---)

, and

ZZZ (---)

.

Each night, you may talk with your partners. You may collectively choose a single Hypnotist to hypnotize a single player who is not a part of your group. You will direct that player to kill a player

other than himself or herself

(unless you happen to target a particularly weak-willed individual).

Players are usually not told when they are hypnotized, though there may be exceptions. The same player cannot be successfully hypnotized twice over the course of the game, so plan accordingly.

You win when everybody in the Town is dead, or nothing can prevent the same.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Town

Magician’s Apprentice

You may not be a Magician in your own right, but you know enough about hypnotism that you recognize it when you see it. Each night, you can investigate one player of your choice. The following daybreak, you will learn whether that player was hypnotized on the night you investigated them, or if they have been previously hypnotized.

You will receive one of three possible results: “Hypnotized,” “Not Hypnotized,” and “Unknown.”

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Magician Tracker

Each night, you may target one player. You will learn who, if anybody, that player targeted. It is possible that a player in this game may target more than one player a night: if this occurs, I will tell you

both

people that player targeted.

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Magician Watcher

Each night, you may target one player. You will learn who, if anybody, targeted that player on that night only.

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Magician Roleblocker

Each night, you may target one player. That player cannot perform any night actions. This also prevents a hypnotized player from carrying out a nightkill, or any other action through hypnosis for that night only.

Note: This will not prevent a hypnotized action that requires being "triggered."

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Martyr Magician

Each night, you may target one player. If that player would die, you will instead die in their place. Nobody said you were a

great

Magician.

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

The Great Zandolfini

Kaflam! You, the Great Zandolfini, have one useful ability. If you are ever successfully hypnotized, your powers of self-awareness will alert you to this occurrence. You will not be told who hypnotized you, nor what you were hypnotized to do, but you

will

recognize when you have been hypnotized.

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

~

Magician

Sadly, you do not actually have any powers that will help you in the fight against the Hypnotists, so the best you can do is vote.

You win when all the Hypnotists are dead, and at least one member of the Town is still alive.

Confirm by PM. Good luck, and have fun!
PJ

[petroleumjelly]

Night Zero Actions

Magician’s Assistant (Seraphim) targets [Fate]
Tracker (MehPlusRawr) targets [Ellibereth]
Watcher (Fate) targets [Ellibereth]
Roleblocker (Katsuki) targets [Nobody]
Martyr (MagnaofIllusion) targets [Nobody]
Hypnotists (Antihero) hypnotizes [Fate] to kill [MagnaofIllusion]

Night One Actions

Magician’s Assistant (Seraphim) targets [Seraphim]
Tracker (MehPlusRawr) targets [animorpherv1]
Watcher (Fate) targets [MehPlusRawr]
Roleblocker (Katsuki) targets [Fate]
Hypnotists (Toogeloo) hypnotizes [GhostWriter] to kill [Fate]

Night Two Actions

Magician’s Assistant (Seraphim) targets [Nobody]
Tracker (MehPlusRawr) targets [Katsuki]
Roleblocker (Katsuki) targets [danakillsu]
Hypnotists (Nobody) hypnotizes [Nobody] to kill [Nobody]

Night Three Actions

Magician’s Assistant (DrippingGoofball) targets [Tasky]
Tracker (MehPlusRawr) targets [DrippingGoofball]
Roleblocker (Katsuki) targets [Nobody]
Hypnotists (Toogeloo) targets [Tasky] to kill [Budja]

Night Four Actions

Magician’s Assistant (DrippingGoofball) targets [Cogito Ergo Sum]
Tracker (MehPlusRawr) targets [GhostWriter]
Roleblocker (Katsuki) targets [Tasky]
Hypnotists (Ellibereth) targets [SpyreX] to kill [MehPlusRawr]

Night Five Actions

Magician’s Assistant (DrippingGoofball) targets [Cogito Ergo Sum]
Hypnotists (Toogeloo) targets [Cogito Ergo Sum] to kill [Tasky]

Night Six Actions

Magician’s Assistant (DrippingGoofball) targets [Toogeloo]
Hypnotists (Toogeloo) targets [DrippingGoofball] to kill [GhostWriter]

Night Seven Actions

Magician's Assistant (DrippingGoofball) targets [DrippingGoofball]
Hypnotists (Nobody) targets [Nobody] to kill [Nobody]

[petroleumjelly]

Quick Commentary

1.)

This game originally had a very different thematic element behind it: a Mafia that "paid" townspeople to kill each other, even though the Townspeople knew it was not for their own good. This "paying" originally was going to give that townsperson some sort of power role determined by the Mafia. So essentially, the Mafia would make the Town stronger through killing, unless the Mafia killed the people they paid.

Although that idea still intrigues me, I decided that perhaps a more balanceable approach would be to simply let each person be "paid" once (without getting a power role as payment). Obviously this would restrict the Mafia kill, unless the Mafia planned ahead in advance. One great advantage this has is that the Mafia suddenly become very difficult to pinpoint through night actions.

2.)

There was a lot of grumbling from the Mafia about the amount of Town Power in this game, but I feel compelled to note: Trackers and Watchers are even less reliable in game where the Mafia hypnotizes one person to kill another person. At best, a Tracking or a Watching could potentially be used to try to clear somebody, but unless they are combined with results, it will not point to scum. The same goes with a Role-Blocker: did I block the Mafia? Or did I block the person the Mafia tried to hypnotize? Or did something else prevent a kill?

The "Cop" in this game (the Magician's Assistant) also could never get any firm "guilty" result (but for results in endgame logically necessitating who must be scum), but could confirm players who had been hypnotized. This should not have been too much of a problem for scum, because if a player is hypnotized it should generally mean they are about to die soon (through lynching or nightkill) anyways.

The Great Zandalfini is also not that great of a role -- just a little flavorful and a role claim that could easily be disbelieved. It's little different from claiming "I'm a 1-Shot Cop and I investigated myself to be innocent!"

The one role I do wish I had altered is the Role-Blocker. I think it is too strong since it has double the chances of preventing a kill. In retrospect, I would have either changed this role completely, or at least limited the number of times it could role-block. (It also has the effect of allowing a player to be hypnotized without killing, which is very bad for the Mafia). That said, I very much understood the power of the role when I included it in this set-up, but the longer the role lived, the antsier I got about the game balance implications.

Another good element for the mafia in this game is the theme itself -- a game about Magicians and Hypnotists gives a lot of options for creative and original fake-claims.

3.)

I don't think I'll ever be using (or suggesting, in this case) the whole "quotes = bad things happen" mechanic again. I think it made the game less fun for the players on the whole, although this mechanic was actually added for the Hypnotists' benefit. I had figured the Hypnotists would use this to their advantage to spread dissension and suspicion while wasting precious days of the town's time hunting down overquoters. Though this happened to some degree, it seemed to just be a general and unnecessary annoyance on gameplay.

[Fate]

SO the whole damn quote thing was a red herring.

[Fate]

Katsuki why in the name of all things fucking holy did you roleblock me

[Fate]

Oh wait NVM <_<

You thought I was being hypnotized right?

RIGHT

[Katsuki]

Oh wait NVM <_<

You thought I was being hypnotized right?

RIGHT

BINGO. I kind of misunderstood the hypnotize mechanics when the game started... = =

I didn't realized I missed a night action...

[Toogeloo]

Holy crap the Magician's Apprentice was powerful.

Had DGB scanned SpyreX instead of me on the waning days, the game would be over for town since SpyreX was hypnotized long before end game. I got lucky >_>...

[Toogeloo]

The game would have been over for a town win rather.

[petroleumjelly]

Holy crap the Magician's Apprentice was powerful.

Had DGB scanned SpyreX instead of me on the waning days, the game would be over for town since SpyreX was hypnotized long before end game. I got lucky >_>...

The Magician's Apprentice is only powerful if the Hypnotists leave hypnotized players alive -- which is strategically the opposite tactic you should be employing, as the Hypnotists generally want to keep unhypnotized players around in order to keep as many night-options available as possible (which is why I made sure to make this clear in the Hypnotists' role PMs). It is certainly far less powerful than a Cop.

[danakillsu]

I was basically just confused by all the votes on me. I still have no idea what was going on there. It was like "Hey, Dana is scum" "Oh yeah, you're right, he's always scum, let's get him!". I blame Fate. (not really)
I was instrumental in catching scum, and then thrown under the bus by the very people I helped. Weird game.

[Fate]

I was screamin in the dead qt that they were lynching you.

Not much I can do when I die before I can adjust my reads

[petroleumjelly]

Also, not that anybody cares, but I think this needs to be pointed out:

In the past, 20-player games would have a team of 3 or 4 mafiates, maybe with a single power (like Godfather), against a reasonably-powered Town (usually something like Cop, Vig, Doctor, Masons). Now, I run a 16-player game with 4 mafiates (which is

heavily

scum balanced), give the town a few weak powers (limited Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Martyr) and one strong role (Role-Blocker) and the scum grumble and complain as if I have screwed them. To the contrary, I basically gave the scum-team two free lynches from the get-go based on sheer numbers, and then had to balance the game accordingly. In that light, I will say:

Games are not supposed to be easy for either side of a Mafia game. No matter who wins, I want the winner to feel like they had to really work for it.

This particular game (4:12) and many other games (3:9) have a scum-team consisting of 25% of the Town. Despite this, the set-up requires the Town to lynch correctly about 50% of the time in order to win. In other words, even a Town that is far better than random lynching (i.e. higher than lynching scum about 25% of the time*) will lose unless they manage to lynch correctly 50% of the time. In my opinion, Towns should generally win if they are better than random. A scum team who is being lynched every other day should generally

not

win games.

I think nowadays, even though scum consistently seem to win, scum-teams continually ask for more and more. A team full of Goons is apparently almost to the point of "bastard-modding," even though I think Goons should far and away be the norm in mafia games. Scum do not need abilities to win: they already have numbers on their side. Towns can already fool themselves into thinking the Mafia has abilities, and that in itself is a valuable tool to be exploited appropriately.

I certainly hope that at the very least the scum in this game who (for whatever reason) feel short-changed take a step back and look at the full picture. The reality is, a scum team who feels like they are constantly at the edge of their seat having to defend themselves and secure mislynches is exactly what playing mafia is all about: because the converse is, the Town is still having to sort through all sorts of scummy Townspeople and processing misleading information (like screwy results in this game, as well as the red herring "quoting" rule, as well as any power role claims scum would like to make) in a short period of time, and are similarly under pressure not only to "figure things out," but also to get other Townspeople to follow them. This is even more difficult because often, the Town players who can actually start getting the Town to become cohesive are often simply nightkilled anyways. The strongest power in a Mafia game, I believe, is the nightkill, since being able to remove any player from a game has inconceivable effects on the landscape of the game. Mafia do not need additional powers, and mafia should not be surprised that Towns require powers of their own to balance this advantage.

* Which is still too high a number because the scum are at least coordinated and so a "random" lynch with scum tending not to vote for their partners will result in a scum-lynch probably more like 20% of the time)

[Fate]

I see your theory and raise you respect

[Katsuki]

I see your theory and raise you respect