Open 260 - Tit For Tat - Game Over

[Gonzoooo]

Have a little patience, don. I've been busy, but I will fully point out to you and everyone else how you were needlessly furthering the vig discussion and hurting the town.

In the meantime, where the fuck is everyone not named Gonzo or don johnson?

Vote Count

don_johnson (2) - smashbro_of_the_SSS, implosion
smashbro_of_the_SSS (1) - vollkan
implosion (1) - don_johnson

Not Voting (5) - Purple Orange, mykonian, lewarcher82, ThAdmiral, Gonzoooo

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch. The deadline is set for the end of December 13th, PST.

[don_johnson]

i have been plenty patient. implying otherwise is more of your sideways ad hom. not one person has yet answered this:

lew was saying "vig has no brains." dj was saying "vig shot was legit". which of those two statements do you think has more potential to draw out a vigilante?

i'll make it easy:

a) lew's statement
b) dj's statement
c) they are both equally guilty of role fishing
d) rolefishing? just looked like a conversation to me.

i'd like everyone to answer this. a general consensus is needed.

[mykonian]

Liking don, disliking Lewarcher.

Disliking Implosion.

Disliking Consigliere.

Great, that's my scumteam!

Liking Sap a bit, pointless, she's dead. Ok.

Why is Lew still alive?

Liking Gonzo

LIKING Imp. In capital.

Disliking Prox.

Can Consigliere please be lynched? Oh, and lew is coaching! Brilliant.

Prox is bad.

Lew is actually improving.

End of page 4.

[mykonian]

Great, admiral is here!

Hello, folks! Confirming, and will post something a bit more substantial as soon as I can finish giving the thread another read.

I looked through the thread earlier today while waiting for a response from Alduskkel, and my gut impression was lewarcher as town, werewolf as mafia, and everyone else confusing as heck. Not really sure that's the most likely combination, however, given Admiral's posts, and I need to see if it can actually stand up to scrutiny.

Will try to get something up by tomorrow...hopefully it won't be

too

lengthy a text wall.

I would be so happy if lew and werewolf are mafia with PO

thad: if you think they are partners, can we start with werewolf?

I am more sure of lewarcher

+townpoints for Admiral for not accepting dj's suggestion.

lynch lynch lynch

Liking zhero (or did I say that already?)

Gonzo is really trying to annoy me. People I think annoying are more likely scum (empirical argument)

I fear I'm going to like don too much to vote him for his actions.

VOTE: vollkan because he is scum.

@volkan - how does your point system compensate for non-contribution? I'm rather curious why dj is so low on your list when he seems to be coasting pretty hard throughout this game. I felt like he was scumhunting in the early game, but has since gone into hibernation mode. What are your thoughts on him other than "55"?

Well there you go.

he

hehe

hehehehehehehehehehehe

Oh, shoot. Now I'm in favor of a SSS lynch too.


Gonzoooo, are you a Incog alt? (and I'm serious). Because I have the feeling that it's your personality that is making you look scummy to me.

Why, why, why is DJ at L-1?

Disliking Gonzooo even more. PO is still scum.

I was wrong initially about Lew. He's town.

[mykonian]

unvote

Ok, I'm not going to vote D_J. I think Implosion and Thadmiral are town. I won't vote them.

SSS is a decent lynch, but not my preferred one. I'd love a PO lynch. Lew is town too. Vollkan is meh. Gonzoooo? scummy as hell.

VOTE: PO

[Gonzoooo]

Disliking Gonzooo even more.

Disliking yo' face, but you don't hear me bitching.

Anyhow, why PO?

Actually, why any of your reads because they aren't explained at all.

[mykonian]

Because I don't felt like adding another wall of text. Plus I'm a day early so this was just my read of the game. Be happy with it.

PO is scum because Consigliere was scum and PO is scum too. If you really want to defend her, I'd advise you to actually do that. I'll read it tomorrow.

[Gonzoooo]

lew was saying "vig has no brains." dj was saying "vig shot was legit". which of those two statements do you think has more potential to draw out a vigilante?


i'll make it easy:

a) lew's statement
b) dj's statement
c) they are both equally guilty of role fishing
d) rolefishing? just looked like a conversation to me.

i'd like everyone to answer this. a general consensus is needed.

I don't really see why you are making these comparisons. I think they were both scummy. I'm going to go over the entire sequence of events.

lew kicks it off in post 254

implying you did not act at night? LoL

Which is rolefishing in my opinion. Don't like it. You know chesskid is going to respond to this and whatever he says is going to give you insight into his role.

chesskid kind of furthers the discussion by saying the vig is useless now and that's why he claimed, blah blah.

I immediately shut that business down in 261

Let's stop talking about who or who may not be the vig for now.

Then we get dj coming in at 263

Explain 258 a bit more pls. The word "therefore" implies that your conclusion of handing out scumpoints to sk somehow stems from the idea that "big is useless." R u saying u think vig Shud claim?

Why why why? I see no freaking reason to be continuing this discussion because the more you talk about the vig, even in the guise of scumhunting chesskid, the more likely it is that the vig will be narrowed down. Additionally, scum could be looking at this and going 'hmm, maybe dj isn't the vig'.

Then lew follows up:

Before anyone does something stupid: no, vig must not claim. He just must not shoot, for the moment. Vig is not useless. He is just useless in this phase of the game. At game end, on a mylo-situation (and being an open-game, we will know very well when it is mylo), if we mislynch he may save our ass by shooting right.

More talk about what the vig should do and more WIFOM about who could be the vig if lew is town.

chesskid's turn:

Yeah I was not suggesting that the vig claim at all.

No fuck, shut up about it.

implosion gets in on it

QFT. Even if there was never any chance for the vig to shoot again, they would still be useful as a townie with a special name.

lew brings up the vig again in 274. again, for what reason I don't know because the discussion should be dead by now, but keeping the fire alive I guess.

vig discussion kind of dies down. Then there's a few times dj directs the vig, which is semi-null though I don't like bringing it up at all.

Unlikely that don could be jumping on a town. If smash were lynched and flipped town (we have a ml, if vig isn't an idiot), then he will be in a very bad situation tomorrow.

^^ what did this mean?

This I don't like because it's stirring the pot of the vig talk again after we had moved on. Yes, lew started it and that's on him, but I feel dj knows better than to further this kind of talk.

Anyhow, coming back to the original question, no don I do not feel like you were the only one spurring that discussion on. Several players were and it was stupid. However, I don't think you're completely innocent in it either, as you're claiming. In fact, I don't even know what post you're getting the "vig shot was legit" from. Can you quote where you said anything like that because I must be losing it in your iso?

I do find it funny that implosion was accusing you of it when he also took a (albeit smaller) part in furthering on the talk about the vig.


ALSO, I've reassured myself that ThAdmiral is town again. So I'd be interested to hear some recent opinions from him.

[don_johnson]

lew was saying "vig has no brains." dj was saying "vig shot was legit". which of those two statements do you think has more potential to draw out a vigilante?


i'll make it easy:

a) lew's statement
b) dj's statement
c) they are both equally guilty of role fishing
d) rolefishing? just looked like a conversation to me.

i'd like everyone to answer this. a general consensus is needed.

I don't really see why you are making these comparisons. I think they were both scummy. I'm going to go over the entire sequence of events.

gonzo says "equally" scummy". i guess that's answer "c".

lew kicks it off in post 254

implying you did not act at night? LoL

Which is rolefishing in my opinion. Don't like it. You know chesskid is going to respond to this and whatever he says is going to give you insight into his role.

accuses lew of "rolefishing".

chesskid kind of furthers the discussion by saying the vig is useless now and that's why he claimed, blah blah.

I immediately shut that business down in 261

Let's stop talking about who or who may not be the vig for now.

nothing wrong with chesskids statement. its actually quite relevant. gonzo seems to want town points for squaching discussion. again, i stand by that there is a difference between set-up/role discussion and "rolefishing".

Then we get dj coming in at 263

Explain 258 a bit more pls. The word "therefore" implies that your conclusion of handing out scumpoints to sk somehow stems from the idea that "big is useless." R u saying u think vig Shud claim?

Why why why? I see no freaking reason to be continuing this discussion because

the more you talk about the vig, even in the guise of scumhunting chesskid, the more likely it is that the vig will be narrowed down.

Additionally, scum could be looking at this and going 'hmm, maybe dj isn't the vig'.

i was trying to get clarification. the bolded is the logical fallacy. we can talk about the vig all we want without narrowing his/her identity down. so far, you have attacked the "subject" of the conversation. not the "content". italicized is an example of part of the conversation which might be pro-town. if dj is vig, then this convo would be throwing off the scumteam. so i don't see the harm there.

Then lew follows up:

Before anyone does something stupid: no, vig must not claim. He just must not shoot, for the moment. Vig is not useless. He is just useless in this phase of the game. At game end, on a mylo-situation (and being an open-game, we will know very well when it is mylo), if we mislynch he may save our ass by shooting right.

More talk about what the vig should do and more WIFOM about who could be the vig if lew is town.

actually, there's nothing wrong with lew's statement here. it clearly asks the vig not to claim. i don't see the wifom you reference.

chesskid's turn:

Yeah I was not suggesting that the vig claim at all.

No fuck, shut up about it.

whats wrong with the statement. it clearly states that chesskid does not want the vig to claim. would you have preferred that chesskid

not

clarify his earlier statement?

implosion gets in on it

QFT. Even if there was never any chance for the vig to shoot again, they would still be useful as a townie with a special name.

emoticons tell us nothing. please explain how this statement was detrimental. obvious in a common sense sort of way, but how is it detrimental?

lew brings up the vig again in 274. again, for what reason I don't know because the discussion should be dead by now, but keeping the fire alive I guess.

another scum point for lew in this analysis i'm guessing?

vig discussion kind of dies down. Then there's a few times dj directs the vig, which is semi-null though I don't like bringing it up at all.

null(semi) points for dj.

Unlikely that don could be jumping on a town.

If smash were lynched and flipped town (we have a ml, if vig isn't an idiot), then he will be in a very bad situation tomorrow.

^^ what did this mean?

This I don't like because it's stirring the pot of the vig talk again after we had moved on. Yes, lew started it and that's on him, but I feel dj knows better than to further this kind of talk.

i was asking about the bolded. i did not understand that sentence and how it related to the rest of the statement. was lew saying that both dj and smash are town? or what? again, all i am doing is asking for clarification.

Anyhow, coming back to the original question, no don I do not feel like you were the only one spurring that discussion on. Several players were and it was stupid. However, I don't think you're completely innocent in it either, as you're claiming.

well, your analysis when broken down seems to be attributing more "scumminess" to lew's part in this than anyone else. not sure why you want everyone to equally share the blame when lew's statements are the only ones you describe as "rolefishing".

[quotye="gonzo"]In fact, I don't even know what post you're getting the "vig shot was legit" from. Can you quote where you said anything like that because I must be losing it in your iso?
[/quote]

i'll dig it up.

I do find it funny that implosion was accusing you of it when he also took a (albeit smaller) part in furthering on the talk about the vig.

way to step outside of the tunnel.


mykonian: explanations will be necessary.

[Purple Orange]

What I think you and everyone else should do is randomly pick a scum game and a town game from his iso that are different from the ones I chose and see if my original premise holds up or not. [...] You either do some of the leg work yourself or dismiss my point out of hand and judge his play based soley on this game.

Going with option (b) after doing too much (a). DJ makes srs walls of lots of text in several of his town games. And in this game I've not seen any of the more cautious-sounding "let's hold off on doing X" you mention from LLL in #421 (which I do agree looks a bit atypical). When not lurking, he's been aggressive or supporting aggression here. The one thing I found notable about this game is a higher ratio of self-defense to scumhunting than in the other ones I looked at, but I believe that needs to be weighed against the fact he's found himself at L-1 and is sorta fighting for his life here.

How does his "let's make a voting block! push smash!" fit with your verdict that he's coasting along not rocking the boat? (#421)

sorry lew, but if someone is going to accuse me of "rolefishing", then they damn well better explain the accusation. imo, their is a big difference between fruitful discussion of set-up/night choices etc. and "rolefishing". those accusing me of rolefishing need to show how what i said is detrimental and/or consistent with jeapordaizing or exposing a power role. if they cannot do that, then they cannot make the accusation of rolefishing.

I'm not seeing how 328-forward was fruitful discussion. Were Sapo still alive, the conversation might have had merit -- but Sapo evidently wasn't doing any of the aggressive-scum things you were saying they might have hypothetically done, because they were town, and

dead

. The whole conversation was a pointless distraction at best, and at worst something that could have drawn others in to say something compromising.

(For the record, I unnecessarily mention the vig in 323, so guilty on me, too, while we're making a list. :/)


And hullo, mykonian.

[vollkan]

@vollkan, what is my score currently? (and I liked you better before the scores. I think you were better then.)

56.

Also for meta purposes, I'd be really interested to know what negative difference do you think the score system makes?

How do you figure that the above is AtE? Ignoring the question of whether or not Smash's vote was opportunistic, he's pointing out a valid inconsistency.

inconsistency in what? the entire town? Everyone can read smash's and implo's votes for themselves and adjudge whether it was opportunistic or not for themselves. DJ pointing it out and essentially stating 'not fair that people are criticizing me and not them' is very much appealing to emotion. If and when the town wants to judge smash and implo's votes, they will...and without dj stamping his feet about it. Seems like a weak attempt to redirect attention away from him.

If you assume that Smash's and implo's votes are opportunistic, then it's a reasonable argument that a player who sees DJ as more suspicious than such votes (because of DJ's proposal) has a strange conception of what is scummy (ie. it is inconsistent because it is attacking DJ for something which seems far less objectively serious)

that's fine. i think we agree that smash may be VI. the vote is still oppurtunistic. instead of coming up with an original case, he dropped omgus with a "shit case"(your words). how is that not "oppurtunistic"? meh, this may be getting into the range of a semantics argument. i may not have described it correctly, or may have incorrectly lumped it into a comparison with implo's vote. either way, his vote on me is bad. the case was bad. we agree on that.

DJ+4

Inappropriately calling something "opportunistic" is a weak scumtell and not a matter of semantics. It's scummy because it suggests that you are trying to make suspicion on the person outstrip the evidence. It's weak because it can conceivably be a mistaken product of getting emotional (especially where it concerns a vote on yourself)

only thing is that it really only makes sense if i am scum with mallow. and even then, what is my scum motivation? the scum motivation is there(avoid townie wagon, ecpress suspicion of known scum to buy townie points), but at that point in time the mallow lynch was a real possibility, and my vote made it more so. thats a risky bus on day 1. scum could have just laid a vote on wolf, or someone else for that matter. i evened out the wagons which created more discussion and(had mallow not dissappeared) could possibly have given us much more insight into both players alignments/connections etc. i don't see how the mallow vote can be perceived as overtly scummy. if mallow were to flip scum, then maybe in retrospect it would draw scrutiny, but even then, its not a good move for scumdj. and you certainly can't accuse dj of avoiding the townwolf wagon.

I think this misses the core point of Smash's post:

That's the thing. I don't see Dj town. He had been telling me to present a good case on Mallow all day, and didn't seem to believe in it.

But once the Werewolf wagon gained votes, he suddenly thinks that it would be good to have two wagons, and goes onto none other than Mallow. He had been vocal about his other reads, but didn't seem to be sold on Mallow.

Once someone else joined the Mallow wagon, he joined it too, rather than Werewolf. That's the point. I didn't think that DJ suspected Mallow over Werewolf.

To begin with, it's strange to want a second wagon for the sake of having a second wagon.

The part bolded above suggests that you didn't genuinely see Mallow as the most suspicious at the point you voted him.

That said, you're right that as far as busses go, it would be pretty terrible. Joining a scum wagon for a weak reason is scummy in and of itself.

i have been plenty patient. implying otherwise is more of your sideways ad hom. not one person has yet answered this:

lew was saying "vig has no brains." dj was saying "vig shot was legit". which of those two statements do you think has more potential to draw out a vigilante?

i'll make it easy:

a) lew's statement
b) dj's statement
c) they are both equally guilty of role fishing
d) rolefishing? just looked like a conversation to me.

i'd like everyone to answer this. a general consensus is needed.

d). I can't see how either of them would draw out a vig.

VOTE: vollkan because he is scum.

For real?

[Alduskkel]

Prodded ThAdmiral (3.5 hours early) and smashbro_of_the_SSSS.

[ThAdmiral]

Still here, but have been busy lately. Will post asap.

[lewarcher82]

@mykonian: I was "actually improving" at end of page 4... then what? I just became town? I find the way you comment thing very insufficient. This is just a sample. You are voting PO. Still anything I did in the first 3 pages was attacking consig (=PO) and gonzooo, who defended consig (PO). Then what? What happens? Are my attacks scummy, or are they a way of bussing? You think I would bus someone right after RVS? Probably not, since you say I am town, but how? When? Why?
What about vollkan? I do not understand your vote. Then you immediately unvote, but this is far from being ok. You cannot just say: hey, I am reading page x so I am voting A; oh, wait, now after page x+1 I feel more like voting B. What reads can I get from this? null, null and null.

@gonzooo: regarding my question to chess, as I already say I always find it scummy when a player posts implying he just came back to game at the beginning of a day. I did it in other games, and vollkan can testify I used it as a way to scumhunt in last game we played together. get the conclusions you want to get, but my 254 had nothing to do with vigs, it regarded scum and chess's post being scummy to me.

@gonzooo&don: I am not answering the question on which vig-statement I find scummier, it would be ridiculous.

@dj:

Unlikely that don could be jumping on a town. If smash were lynched and flipped town (we have a ml, if vig isn't an idiot), then he will be in a very bad situation tomorrow.

bad english, yeah. I meant that in that phase of the game you were pushing on smash pretty hard, and I didn't think you would take such a risk if you were scum and he were town. "If smash dies and he is town, it will be hard for don to demonstrate he ain't scum tomorrow" - that is what I meant. However, I am not so sure about this anymore. The statemente can work the other way round as well, so it is pretty much invalid. I am now thinking it is very likely that one of you guys is scum.

In general: my strongest towntell remains PO.

further questions to mykonian:
1) what is the reason why you think Thad is town?
2) you seem to have a lot of reads of implo, which I lack... I find implo border-line-lurker all game long. Can you tell me please where you liked him and where you disliked him?
3) why is gonzooo scummy? I would not bet my balls he is town, but I don't see anything one could use to build a case on him. Tbh, if gonzooo is scum, he is playing a splendid game. Better than the game dj is playing if he is scum, for instance.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

i'm really sorry guys, but I don't have time for this game.

replace out please

[Purple Orange]

but i would really like implo to be looked at here and my post later will explain why, but it seems noone even addressed my earlier point about his soft play on day 1. he gave lew a pass for excessive smilies but condemned consig for joking around and posting off-topic.

I dismissed it as weak earlier, but on second look your case on implosion in #363 is seriously crud. You fail to correctly identify the reason Implo voted for Consig. "Blending in" was a subpoint of his main point at best (that Consig was posting lots but not contributing any real content/scumhunting to the town). There is no inconsistency in Implosion voting for Consig while not voting for/questioning lew, as lew actually HAD argued a bit of stuff at that point, making a notable difference between the two. And the only reason I see that you call Implo scum in 363 is for his perceived inconsistency and contradiction.

Implo nails it with admirable brevity here:

363: thing is, Consig never did anything. lew did.

And your answer skirts the point.

consig had five posts. could he be scum avoiding an issue? maybe. could he be poor town? sure. null tell at best based on those posts. in other words, you took the easy target.

Could he have been going after the easy target? Sure. But that's not why you called him scum. You called him scum for going after Consig and giving lew a pass, when you thought he should have gone after both to be consistent. You and he can go debate whether five vapid posts (actually it was just 3 at the time of his vote, but consig certainly added more) should be considered as much a null tell an initial post with 4 smilies. He didn't think so, and you apparently think several vapid posts is LESS of a tell than 4 smilies (given your lew vote).

If you still think there's anything to what you said in 363, though, or if you think I've misread you, I'm happy to toss up a wall of quotes backing my summary of Implo's vote. Trying to avoid that unless necessary, however, especially if you've moved on to other arguments (I'm trying to reevaluate the whole vig conversation, at the moment). But this

is

the one your vote is tied to.

[mykonian]

@mykonian: I was "actually improving" at end of page 4... then what? I just became town? I find the way you comment thing very insufficient. This is just a sample. You are voting PO. Still anything I did in the first 3 pages was attacking consig (=PO) and gonzooo, who defended consig (PO). Then what? What happens? Are my attacks scummy, or are they a way of bussing? You think I would bus someone right after RVS? Probably not, since you say I am town, but how? When? Why?
What about vollkan? I do not understand your vote. Then you immediately unvote, but this is far from being ok. You cannot just say: hey, I am reading page x so I am voting A; oh, wait, now after page x+1 I feel more like voting B. What reads can I get from this? null, null and null.

Look, I understand that you can't get a read from that. However, I'm pretty sure that if I typed up what I all thought and what the complete reasonings were, that you wouldn't read it. Plus that I actually didn't feel like doing a lot of work for you while I was the one trying to get in this game.

So, unless you just want a wall from me (which you aren't going to get), would you please stand in line and ask specific questions about my reads like some other people have done. That way you'll actually read my answer and we might have some constructive discussion in stead of cut up quoted posts which some of you love.

[mykonian]

(and I didn't notice that you were actually the one asking specific questions. Sorry)

[mykonian]

Anyhow, why PO?

General passive play, by both players using that slot. Little to no scumhunting and an extremely hesitant start. If your lucky I'll get you quotes at the end of the night.

Actually, why any of your reads because they aren't explained at all.

I'm not going to bother. Weren't you one of the players who disliked lists about all players? You know that the reads are there.

[mykonian]

Also for meta purposes, I'd be really interested to know what negative difference do you think the score system makes?

It makes you more rigid in your play, and also focusses your play inward (seen from my point of view). It seems that you are less sharp, as you pick out only a small amount of tells.

VOTE: vollkan because he is scum.

For real?

Yes. I'm still a little bit wary about you. However, PO is much clearer, which is why my vote is there.

[Gonzoooo]

dj - what do you think about myk's reads stated so far and his reasoning on PO?

@ smash replacing out. I won't be playing with you again.

More today or tomorrow.

[mykonian]

further questions to mykonian:
1) what is the reason why you think Thad is town?
2) you seem to have a lot of reads of implo, which I lack... I find implo border-line-lurker all game long. Can you tell me please where you liked him and where you disliked him?
3) why is gonzooo scummy? I would not bet my balls he is town, but I don't see anything one could use to build a case on him. Tbh, if gonzooo is scum, he is playing a splendid game. Better than the game dj is playing if he is scum, for instance.

1) His scumhunting right from the start feels very natural. It's the way he scumhunts right into the game. You'll get a quote about it. (and don't you dare disprove it, it's no use anyway, as I'm going to use it as a tell and the rest of the game isn't)
2) quotes are coming (christ, you want to have me work, don't you?)
3) you are aware that Gonzo is a player who has naturally no problem at all avoiding cases being build on him? He's a good player, so I'm trying to find other way's to find out if he's scum. Seen my back and forth on gonzo, you know it isn't working very well

DJ is the opposite. This is far from his first game where he gets under pressure. It has something to do with general playstyle. Anyway, currently I'm leaning DJ town.

[mykonian]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2621836

This was the catchup post by Thad, and it is decent. While at the start of the game people were waiting for DJ to think up something for them and then did nothing with it, Thad sees it immediately, and then points out key points in the Lew case. The fact that he can do this so spot on makes me think that he's actually looking for points (in stead of trying to make a save entrance into the game)

If we compare this to the entrance of PO: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2623504

First he's attacking wolf. While I'm not really happy with the reasonings used, it is scumhunting. The same goes for the attack on mallow (me). It consists of one point and is further based on the fact that Mallow was a lurker. Fine. Not very scummy, but definately a save place to put your vote down. After that Lew gets buddied. He was "completely legitimate". PO is taking. Oh, PO is going to like me too (I'm not English either!). And then the "thank you" to gonzo who thought consig was town. Another attempt at buddying.

This is completely opposite to Thad, who actually scumhunted. PO played it save, and I don't like it (esspecially seen that consig was scummy too).

[Gonzoooo]

First,

Mod, any deadline extension for smashbro replacement?

If not guys, we have like two days to lynch someone, so let's get our shit together. I think in their next post, everyone needs to make a list of people they would be willing to lynch today if they haven't already done so. I'd like to get a claim reasonably before deadline so there isn't shenanigans resulting in no lynch.

People I'm willing to lynch now:
smash
dj

People I

might

be convinced to lynch as a compromise:
vollkan
implosion

People who just appeared in the game and I have fuck-all of a read on:
mykonian

People I'm not interested in lynching today:
ThAdmiral
lewarcher
PurpleOrange

[don_johnson]

i actually like the PO case here. PO's last post seems to be trying to pigeonhole my implosion vote by tieing it to the post in which it was initially laid down, but not responding to any of the walls of text that i subsequently posted. nor does it address implo's play at all. its just kind of a sideways stab at a vulnerable player(me). plus, i like myk.

unvote, vote: PO

i don't think smash is scum and i think locking into a 1 v1 dj/smash is a terribad idea. i'm willing to lynch PO, implo, gonzo, lew atm and i'll call it in that order. not interested in volkan, myk, smash, Thad. i think the PO case has merit especially considering he's been waffling over the 1 v 1 smash/dj all day and his last post just seems cherrypicked. sorry, but you can't ignore a dozen posts, quote one or two lines and then think you're making sense. or something.

whatever. i've been flooding this thread with analysis all day and noone seems to want to answer my questions or fully read what i've been saying. so there it is...