DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Jed Cooper]

IE: its

alignment

that's the issue here.

[Jed Cooper]

@Jack: Yes, actually there have been a steady stream of various attempts to influence role choices and game strategy.

There has also been a certain argument for the "uselessness" of DEFCON 5 & 4. Do you think its wise to believe that argument?

[Toogeloo]

Dang it guys, would you stop posting one-liners? Alright, here's what I've got for now:
@ Fate
Post 403
You quote two of my posts. Why? What I see there is consistency. I understand that you enjoy lynching me because you don't like my playstyle, but calling me scummy for that is ridiculous. Like I would really be more likely to say I'm not going to participate that much until DEFCON 4 as scum than I would as town.
@ Toogeloo
Post 412
What? Are you trying to say I'm generally a lurking/non-participatory player and that you tend not to expect much from me? I'm pretty sure we played one game together, and I didn't have a great chance to shine in that game, but I definitely participated. I do have an average of over 5 posts a day, and I'm in 2/3 games right now that I'm alive in. And my posts are very rarely too short. So you do the math.

Nah, I am just summing up your wiki intro ^_^...

danakillsu

is a very different kind of Mafia player, preffering to express his opinions on whatever jumps out to him, no matter how it looks to others. Consequently, many feel that he is practically unreadable, because he looks so "scummy" all the time. This has worked to his advantage when he is scum, but has gotten him lynched as town more than once. So he has a fairly poor record overall, and despite having this advantage as scum, has never won as scum (partially because of an inherent disadvantage in the setup).

...so I was asking Fate what he really expected from you is all.

[Jed Cooper]

Submarine
Air Base
Espionage
Radar
Fighter

Silo

Hey Toog can you explain what happened in the above?

[Toogeloo]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

[gandalf5166]

BTW, I think Sub is awesome for town. It means you can nuke without idiots like Jed questioning the fact that you're killing scum over and over again.

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

HAHAHAHAHA. Yes. You never direct a vig, because SCUM can influence a directed vig.

Excuse me but you claim vig in a an open setup where the vig can be town or scum, and you DON'T allow the town to influence your vig? That is only scum hiding in the vig claim and is lynched.

No. I don't. If you think otherwise for some fuckin weird reason, you can go to hell.

OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

PUT DOWN: IF A VIG IS DIRECTED, SCUM CAN HELP DIRECT HIM. DIRECTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. IF THE VIG IS CLEARLY VIGGING FOR ANTITOWN PURPOSES, YOU LYNCH THE FUCKER.

[Jed Cooper]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

[Kitoari]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

You're forgetting that most every role will have been taken by the time your 4th/5th choice comes around.

[Jed Cooper]

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

HAHAHAHAHA. Yes. You never direct a vig, because SCUM can influence a directed vig.

Excuse me but you claim vig in a an open setup where the vig can be town or scum, and you DON'T allow the town to influence your vig? That is only scum hiding in the vig claim and is lynched.

No. I don't. If you think otherwise for some fuckin weird reason, you can go to hell.

OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

PUT DOWN: IF A VIG IS DIRECTED, SCUM CAN HELP DIRECT HIM. DIRECTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. IF THE VIG IS CLEARLY VIGGING FOR ANTITOWN PURPOSES, YOU LYNCH THE FUCKER.

So how many easily justifiable bodies have to hit the floor before he suddenly becomes anti-town?? Scum in their QT/daytalk would love to direct that vig instead of the town. Your "strategy" is a great gift to them.

[Jed Cooper]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

You're forgetting that most every role will have been taken by the time your 4th/5th choice comes around.

And you know that how? Surely it

could

happen but that's no reason to cut off your list and

definitely

not a reason to put Silo on your list since its the default.

[Kitoari]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

You're forgetting that most every role will have been taken by the time your 4th/5th choice comes around.

And you know that how? Surely it

could

happen but that's no reason to cut off your list and

definitely

not a reason to put Silo on your list since its the default.

There's no practical difference between:
Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop

and

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo

[Jed Cooper]

Are you aware that there are 10 power roles?

[Jed Cooper]

Before we get started,

Q: How does the randomization process work?
A: Choices are resolved with a focus on first-choice maximization. I will begin by attempting to award each player his or her first choice. If multiple players are in contention for a single ability, random.org will determine who gets it. Once all possible first choices have been awarded, I will move on to the second choice echelon and attempt to award a second choice to each player who did not receive a first choice. This will continue, so on and so forth, until each player has received an ability.

I want everyone to be crystal clear on this. There were some players last game who thought you needed to choose missile silo, offensive troops or defensive troops, and

then

list the abilities in that subsection by preference. This is

not the case

.

For example, this is a perfectly valid preference list:

Preference list

1. Aircraft Carrier
2. Submarine
3. Espionage
4. Radar
5. Fail Safe
6. Missile Silo in Anti-Ballistic Missile Mode

So when it comes to choosing preferences, make sure you read all the rules carefully. Don't [REDACTED] things up, because it's anti-town.

[Jed Cooper]

Although I disagree with his list of only 6 unless he has a reason that I've missed for not doing at least 9.

[Percy]

V/LA for two days

- Off to celebrate my wedding anniversary!

I have sent in my preferences, though

[Jed Cooper]

Grats. Your presence though at this very time in the game will be sorely sorely missed.

[Kitoari]

Are you aware that there are 10 power roles?

Well, yes, but that's not really in response to my point.

Besides, have you considered the possibility that *GASP* nukes may be better than a PR sometimes?

Huh, who knew.

[Jed Cooper]

Then why did you discount 5 of the roles in your post?

[Kitoari]

Then why did you discount 5 of the roles in your post?

You seem to be talking about something completely unrelated. I'm simply saying there's no difference between:

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop

and

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo

How does that imply anything about optimal lists?

[Jed Cooper]

Well then the question really is how was your post related to the original point?

The point is that placing silo in your list effectively frees up a power role slot that could go to scum and prevents a power role that could go to town.

[Jed Cooper]

Addressing your (apparently unrelated) point though, you said that there is no difference between the two lists. Placing silo where you have placed it creates a huge difference in relation to the other 5 roles that are available and for the above stated reasons.

[Kitoari]

Addressing your (apparently unrelated) point though, you said that there is no difference between the two lists. Placing silo where you have placed it creates a huge difference in relation to the other 5 roles that are available and for the above stated reasons.

But if you never put them on the list in the first place (list #1), list #1 is identical to list #2.

in other news, what about a mass sub/not sub claim?
1) If sub is claimed, we can keep them accountable for their nuke choices.
2) If it's not claimed, we can assume it's in scum hands and react accordingly.

[Jed Cooper]

And the town reason for not including them is?

I'm glad you brought up sub too because placing silo where you placed it moves the sub down farther which I think is actually a pro-scum idea, as is a list of only 5 power roles with sub at the bottom in general.

[Jed Cooper]

EBWOP: With SILO (not sub) at the bottom in general.

[Katsuki]

Just got home after a long flight. /sleepdeprived.

If I do not comment tonight I will get something up tomorrow.