Newbie 1022 - Game Over

[Kingcheese]

To answer your question more specifically Vox I relized that I had screwed up with my shotty as town but still part of a scum team gambit. Somewhere in one of my posts I contradicted myself and tryed to dig myself out of it. Didn't help you wouldn't let it die . Really most of the game my thoughts were day 1 PL Shotty. Avish is paranoid townie. It honestly looked like that. Long drawn out posts or walls if you will. She really was defending herself well. Day 2 I knew I would come under question for my laughable defence if you could call it that on Avish. But I didn't which surprised me. And then more surprising DP attacks me for... My Pling attempt on Shotty? That Leech started? And it seemed his points against me were all regarding shotty. Which I thought made something in my head click and say hey Mozeralla Head is it to hard to believe DP and Shotty are scum? I think thats where the gambit started that many were confused about. DP was my only suspect that day he came off SO scummy to me. He refused to even address me for most of the day and Shotty was the worst. Still need to put that Shotty quote in my sig. And then the vote hop thing with Leech. At first I thought he was pushing for a NL which was scummy regardless but Vox your point about getting TL on his wagon of me to end the day seemed very plausible. And that kinda of made me doubt the FOS I put on you. If Leech had played more neutral I would have pegged you as the one town of the other 3 unconfirmed scum.

In that final day I would have voted Vas. Mister Neutral wasn't a compliment. He just seemed like he was just there and arguing with Vox . But you pulled it off well. Although you would have probably got my final vote that day the town would still have lost. The fact I couldn't get through to shotty's thick skull to at least listen to my townie case really gave you guys the win. I did have my doubts on Leech/Xvart there at the end but my final choice would have been Vox and Vas and if I went back and remembered that early bus I would have definetly had a case. However Shotty... Good ol Shotty... *sigh*

Lets see what else.

Oh yes if TL didn't give the breadcrumb who would you guys have NKed? It might be in the quicktopic but I'll put it here just so I make sure someone reads it!

At what point were you certain you were not going to NK me? Was it my rolefishing on Eggy?

Which brings me to my next point. The eggy thing with the roleing and the fishing.

I hadn't seen it in games I had read (which should have been a warning sign!) I should have asked a much less sepcific question on the subject to see if it was acceptful. It wasn't to hard to infer that it WAS NOT accepted but for some reason ole mozzeralla here couldn't make things kick.

I don't blame TL. He got really over heated against Leech there which sort of made me back off on the situation. It just seemed like a flame fest for awhile.

To be honest Vox and Vas your early bussing really didn't help you if not hinder you. (If we had townies that would have thought before posting) There were much bigger fish to fry at the time and when I was reading it I was just like.... "wut??" "wtf are you attacking each other IT MAKES NO SENSE!" If I had time to reread I think that may have been something that changed Shottys mind that had previously been determined at the end of Day 1 for what I must assume as OMGUS reasons perhaps?

I hope we didn't scare off Avish. She was a good player I thought. Just had to get around some kinks in her game thought. Such as not voting herself.

I had marked Leech as Pro Town but since I didn't have any "solid" scum leads I brought all three of you to square one to see if I could find anything. My previous opinions on Leech would have likely been the same.

If I had to pick who was the better Scum this game I would have picked Vox. (No credit taken away from Vas. You played great Dude ) But vox really wasn't on anyones radar which is also kind of why I Fosed him there. There wasn't anything that was overly town but nothing really scummy. COngrats to you both again.

I had a fun 3 months though and am excited to be able to play in some of the normal games although I might play another newbie game without any other ongoing games first.

I know this is a mess but I just posted all my thoughts as I saw them.

Wish I can play with all of you again (Excluding Shotty) really had a blast.

[AurorusVox]

ITT: KC proves that he is a perceptive player and ought to be one to consider killing off in future games

The Vas case I pushed was something I would have pushed had I been town. It did seem to be a contradiction, and I didn't want to let it slip by :p I think we decided not to NK you because as Vas pointed out, you were giving off VT vibes. We had to hunt for the cop. With Vas' experience of LC, and TL outed, those were the obvious NK choices. I was pretty scared of Leech (which is why we RB'd him N1) but he seems to listen to logical arguments, which can be a problem sometimes - as scum, I tend to stick to logic, so I hoped I could skirt his suspicions :p

Also, I want to say that I think TL's D1 was really good as cop. If you look in the QT, you'll see we thought the cop was potentially one of Leech/LC. I wonder what would have happened if we'd killed TL off N1 instead? :p

[Kingcheese]

Oh I knew I was forgeting something:

Before this thread dies I'd like to thank Vel for modding. As I stated previously win or lose it was a very enjoyable experience and I think you deserve a good chunk of credit for that. Especially considering their were no major disasters and anytime I needed a vote count it seems as if it was about 3 or so posts up. Coincidence?... I think not....

[DavidParker]

My shortcomings:

I subbed into this game being almost convinced KC was scum. I didn't really want to make a huge case because I'm kind of a lazy person but there was a solid case there, but I chose to generally ignore him. As the day went, I became less and less convinced KC was scum. Now I was in an awkward position, there was no other good wagon to go after with a couple days left and I wasn't that sure of KC scum, and as a result of me not pushing him being scum people had started to jump on my wagon. By then I didn't want to push back at KC because I wasn't feeling as strong as him being scum, so I just let the wagon on me build and build without doing anything about it.

[xvart]

Finally read the scum QT. It's always a huge boost when you have a scum team that synergizes well, as it appears AV/VV did. How I wish shotty would have listened and not cast his vote so soon because I was interested in getting into that discussion with AV about voting for VV instead.

AV - why did you call for my lynch tomorrow after the hammer had been dropped? Just for fun?

xvart.

[AurorusVox]

xD Yeah I thought since me and VV had softclaimed mafia victory and no one picked up on it I'd play through pretending to be town. What if someone's vote hadn't counted? We'd have been funked over and I didn't want to just go silent for the same reason :p

[xvart]

When I saw your votes I figured you two were the scum, but then sotty came in and did what he does and I was like wtf. Seriously, was shotty confusing games or was he just being flat out stupid? Does he know he lost?

[DavidParker]

Shotty knows very little in general.

[TheLonging]

shotty is terrible, but again, PLing would not do good.

[TheLonging]

at least, from the position I was in.

[AurorusVox]

Yeah. PL on D2 was a no go. He should have gone D1. /shrugs

[TheLonging]

WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME

ESPECIALLY WHEN I SAY AVISH IS TOWN

BECAUSE I CAN TELL WHEN SOMEONE IS TOWN GODDAMMIT (except for my AV read, that got completely flunked)

[xvart]

Oh no, I agree that Policy Lynching him D2 was a bad idea. But D1, there could have not been a better idea.

xvart.

[VasudeVa]

I think the Avish lynch was more because of the points I raised against her and the fact that Shotty's claim left people with 'Well, what now?'.

Shotty's PL D2 should have happened actually. Shotty is KNOWN to jump the gun at LyLo. Why you guys didn't settle for a Shotty-less LyLo face off was odd FMPOV.

If it weren't for shotty's vote and our quickhammer, this game could be at D4 given how many people were willing to vote for me. (Although that's a hindsight 20-20 thing, but I'm glad I didn't have to answer to the bad feelings against me that were brewing up.)

[xvart]

I see your point, VV. And I would have been more than happy to vote him D2 because I was reading him as scum at that point in the read through; but from a policy standpoint, it just seems like bad news bears to be lynching someone maybe town or prob town to put it into LYLO. Although, yes, you are right about him jumping the gun and lesson learned. Lynch shotty no matter when and under any circumstances.

[AurorusVox]

If Shotty had been lynched, then I'd have left TL alive and pressured his claim as fake :\ "You're cop...with an inno on

lynched

Shotty, and no other results? Hello, fakeclaim"

I'd have even had VV or myself counterclaim him to push for his lynch at 5-person LYLO. Possibly pushed the one-of-us-claim-guilty-report-on-the-other strategy to get to D4 3-way lylo, and I think we'd have scooped the win there and then.

[Avish]

Ah, the game is over and we lost.

Don't worry, I haven't been scared off. I've just been terribly busy in my real life and am involved in several games on my other site, so I haven't signed up for any games here.

I regretted my self-hammer as soon as I did it, but it was too late then. I am well aware that it was a bad move. This game presented all kinds of new and different situations for me, not the least of which was being in a situation where I had to defend myself. That has never happened to me before...not as townie, not as mafia. The only time I've ever been lynched before (and I was mafia) was in a game where the confirmed detective busted me rollblocking when the town rollblocker was dead. Rather hard to defend against that one.

Of course, I thought Vas was mafia at first. Leech's 180 on me made me find him more suspicious, which negated my suspicion of Vas because I didn't think both mafia would go after a townie scapegoat hardcore. However, I have no real regrets about this game. Live and learn, as they say. I had fun while it lasted. After all, it's only a game.

[Leech]

Sorry for disappearing, ever since thanksgiving I was struggling to get reliable internet access. I hate having to be replaced with a passion.

Worse yet, is how far off I was in this game. Vas and AV did a pretty nice job. Vas had me suspicious with his buddying of DP for what I considered no real reason at all, but I never considered him much of an actual scum candidate. AV was off of my radar most of the time as well.

One thing I really want to address is something I said countless times in this game. If a player has a certain style of play, that they have used in every game they have played in, it is not a scum tell. I spent so much time arguing against the fact that posting walls = scumtell. Tells are based on the individual, and are not always black and white.

[TheLonging]

and I said, it depends ON THE CONTENT WITHIN THE WALL

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Leech, I have to agree with TL on this one. If someone posts walls o' text on a regular basis, that's not in and of itself a scumtell. HOWEVER, if those walls o' text are just fluff, with no real scumhunting going on, then that IS a scumtell. It's not so much the wall that's the tell in that instance, it's the fact that you've written a dissertation and said absolutely nothing relevant towards the goal of catching scum.

[AurorusVox]

I thought that many of Leech's walls painted a very good case on TL...the real clanger was the fact he missed TL's cop crumbs which explained away all of those scumtells. By persisting with it, Leech looked more and more scummy to someone who did notice the crumbs (or indeed to TL himself)

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I'm not trying to argue whether Leech's walls contained scumhunting or not. I'm commenting on the general argument being espoused between Leech and TL in 542/543.

[DavidParker]

TL must have made some pretty obvious cop crumbs :/

I feel dumb for not finding them, but as a VT i wasn't really looking.

[AurorusVox]

LOLOL DRUNKPOSTING TO SAY WHY IS THIS STILL ON MY FUCKING BOOKMARKS?!



I loved playing with almost everyone here. If I see you guys (esp. Leech, VV, and Avish) joining games again, I will JOIN IT LIKE A BITCH.

[VasudeVa]

AV's drunk posts always make me laugh. Don't stop doing that now~(Unless you're an alcoholic. Then by all means stop.)

AV is soo sweet~