Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Substrike22]

Then vote elderad.

VOTE: Elderad

I liked your other plan better Nacho, for the record, and I think Lowell's not trusting a confirmed cop is sketchy at best, unless I missed something in skimming the last few days here.

[Substrike22]

Yep, nope, even with another brief glance over Day 4 Lowell looks scummy and was attracting scum reads of my favorite town members.

[Nachomamma8]

Elderad, claim in your next post.

Bolded for your convenience! For everyone else, no more votes go on elderad until he claims, okay?

But it seems I have to make my intentions clearer. Elderad is not being lynched today because of some investigation result. We're making an example out of Elderad to show townies and scum alike that quickhammering is the worst possible mistake they can make. He has to die based on principle before anything else, honestly.

[Nocmen]

I agree with nacho's statement about the confirmed innocents, but why not claim the guilty results that you get? I don't see why you should hold out on us if you know they are scum. Also, why are you not voting eldarad?
Sub, why are you going after eldarad (besides that nacho said so)? You just switched in, I'd like to see the reasoning and your reads on people.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: eldarad

How's about a VV investigation tonight?

I would agree with Nocmen that you should keep tightlipped about your innocents but not your guilties.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

I just woke up and misread your post.

[AGar]

Lulz.

Follow the cop.

I'm game.

Eldarad, hurry up though. I'm impatient here.

[Lowell]

I just think the plan as was is dangerous as hell. We could lynch a doc, cop dies overnight, and we lose the innocents AND guilties? Terrible idea.

[DemonHybrid]

I just think the plan as was is dangerous as hell. We could lynch a doc, cop dies overnight, and we lose the innocents AND guilties? Terrible idea.

...uh, the plan of lynching

confirmed

scum?

Not sure what you're trying to get at.

[DemonHybrid]

Or, I'm stupid. You were talking about Nacho's plan.

Well, that'd be all fine and good if the doctor claims if he or she's at L-1. It would give Nacho time to give his list. Hopefully, by then, it won't be a big deal that we would lose the doctor that night or that day to a lynch.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 5.01

eldarad - 1 - Substrike22

Not Voting: Nocmen, DemonHybrid, Xine, Lowell, Glork, VasudeVa, eldarad, Haylen, Nachomamma8, AGar

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: January 3

[eldarad]

I will not reveal any of my innocents. If I get enough innocents where the innocents + me make up a majority, then we win. Now, naturally, if scum knew who my innocents were, they'd be able to make a move to kill them early. But as long as I confirm all of the obvnondoc people I can, I'm pretty sure we'll be fine.

I will not reveal my guilties. Because I'm confirmed as cop, once I get a guilty result on someone, they're scum; we can lynch them whenever we like, so there's no rush there. Which means that I can watch scum interact when I know they're scum already, and do pretty well in discerning their partners. Scum also won't know how many innocents I have, so they won't know how close they are to losing the game.

I agree with this.

I would also prefer if you all let me hammer. I'm sure you guys won't be able to take a confirmed innocent of mine up to L-1, but just in case, I'd like to have the last say.

I don't agree with this.
You are a mod-confirmed cop. That gives you a veto over the lynch of confirmed innocents. It doesn't give you a veto over any other lynch, although your opinion will naturally carry more weight as you are a confirmed innocent yourself.

But it seems I have to make my intentions clearer. Elderad is not being lynched today because of some investigation result. We're making an example out of Elderad to show townies and scum alike that quickhammering is the worst possible mistake they can make. He has to die based on principle before anything else, honestly.

Quickhammer?!
Just to be clear, at no point did you oppose a hammer on RC.

Elderad, claim in your next post.
Bolded for your convenience! For everyone else, no more votes go on elderad until he claims, okay?

I am not prepared to claim at this point.

~~~
I agree that Vas has been keeping his head down all game, either by making non-contraversial posts or by simply not posting at all.

VOTE: Vas

~~~
In other news, I just cooked a pizza with the plastic base still underneath. Sigh.

[Glork]

Vote: eldarad

Eldarad-AGar connection still noted.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: eldarad

Eldarad-AGar connection still noted.

Yeah, I was going to say something about AGar's reaction and how forced it seemed.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't agree with this.
You are a mod-confirmed cop. That gives you a veto over the lynch of confirmed innocents. It doesn't give you a veto over any other lynch, although your opinion will naturally carry more weight as you are a confirmed innocent yourself.

It's also important to stop people like you from quickhammering.

Quickhammer?!
Just to be clear, at no point did you oppose a hammer on RC.

You hammered him before he claimed, and when I specifically told you not to. That's a quickhammer.

I am not prepared to claim at this point.

You will claim in your next post, or you will be lynched without a claim. Don't try to squirm out of this.

[Substrike22]

I agree with nacho's statement about the confirmed innocents, but why not claim the guilty results that you get? I don't see why you should hold out on us if you know they are scum. Also, why are you not voting eldarad?
Sub, why are you going after eldarad (besides that nacho said so)? You just switched in, I'd like to see the reasoning and your reads on people.

Because we have a confirmed cop saying so? I'll post a more in-detail thought process later tonight or tomorrow, busy writing a paper for finals right now.

[Substrike22]

Also the advantage to not giving out guilty investigations until the end of this day would've been allowing Nacho to observe the relationship between known scum and others. Now that we've forced him to give that up, he can't do that anymore. I agree that we should get the guilties out of him before the hammer, in case something were to happen, but there was no need for him to share that before then. Honestly I'm now decently suspicious of the people that were pushing for that so hard, kind of came across as role fishing a bit. As DemonHybrid pointed out. Honestly if we didn't have the cop calling for someone else, Lowell, you'd have my vote right now.

As I said I'll have a top 2 or 3 scum list by tonight/tomorrow.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, assuming that eldarad is cop confirmed scum, we should take an ISO on him and note reactions.

I think that AGar's reaction to the eldarad outing is very forced. If we notice eldarad's ignoring of certain players, that should be noted as well.

Let me take a look real fast.

[DemonHybrid]

He seems to be a HUGE wagoner. He's been on every wagon thus far. Preemptively on the VV one, when I tried to start it.

However, he has had little scraps of logic battles with Haylen, AGar,

LMP

,

Jack

,

Xine

.

He's defended

CJ

and Antihero.

Thoughts?

[Lowell]

vote vas

. I'll throw eldarad a bone here. If for no other reason than because otherwise no one will do anything.

[AGar]

Not ready to claim?

When does the lynchee get to call the shots?

VOTE: Eldarad

[Xine]

DH: I don't think I said this yet, glad you're here...I'm not really understanding the eldarad wagon. Nacho said that this is going on, not because of any investigation result, but to prove some kind of point. If the point is Quick hammer=bad, I agree, but not sure how calling for a claim at L-5 is going to make that point. oh well, I'm getting pretty used to being the clueless townie.

Eldarad, I really do want a response to my earlier question, but I'll rephrase it... Nacho asked that nobody hammer. you post, asking that nobody hammer, because you had something to say, that something was "I think RC is scum" and a hammer. why would you ask folks to not hammer, and then not pursue more discussion? should I put you on the clueless townie list with me? (are you scum or stupid?)

Agar's last post (before his vote) was the most pleasant one he's made all game. yes, this too confuses me. A player who's standard response to everything else is to argue and call people stupid, in a situation where everyone is arguing the fine points of Nacho's cop plan, and Agar's input is just agreeable and friendly???
Also, Agar, I noticed that much earlier in the game you gave a shoutout the "Glork is always right" and just before RC's flip, you make a point to tell Glork that he really isn't THAT good. why the change of heart?

Glork, I am disappointed in myself for sheeping you. you have an amazing reputation, but that does not excuse me from thinking for myself. (10 lashings please) Maybe I don't know better (here's where I finally pull the Newb card) but VV has been around a while, right?

VV, do you make a habit out of sheeping votes, why did you do so in this case?

[DemonHybrid]

Not ready to claim?

When does the lynchee get to call the shots?

VOTE: Eldarad

Hey. Did you just completely ignore our notes of you acting too forced to the eldarad outing?

[DemonHybrid]

DH: I don't think I said this yet, glad you're here...I'm not really understanding the eldarad wagon. Nacho said that this is going on, not because of any investigation result, but to prove some kind of point. If the point is Quick hammer=bad, I agree, but not sure how calling for a claim at L-5 is going to make that point. oh well, I'm getting pretty used to being the clueless townie.

The exchange was this:

Nacho: I'm not claiming my guilties or innocents so that we can trap them endgame.
Lowell: Aww, come on. That's not helping us. At least give us your guilties so we can lynch them.
Nacho: K, lynch eldarad.

This insinuates eldarad is cop confirmed scum.

After that, here comes AGar.

AGar: Oh shit....Yeah! You are totally the bad guy, as confirmed by the cop! You are going down! So...so, claim, and I will lynch you in a completely townie way! That's not scummy at all. No siree.

It's pretty obvious what's going on here.

[eldarad]

You hammered him before he claimed, and when I specifically told you not to. That's a quickhammer.

You didn't oppose a hammer, you just said that you wanted to hammer yourself.
RC had a chance to claim in #992, and he was resigned to a nacho-led lynch. That doesn't sound like a doc talking to me. Does that sound like a doc to you?
Let's face it, doc was the only claim that was going to save him at that point.

You will claim in your next post, or you will be lynched without a claim. Don't try to squirm out of this.

I refer you to my answer in my previous post.

~~~

Eldarad, I really do want a response to my earlier question, but I'll rephrase it... Nacho asked that nobody hammer. you post, asking that nobody hammer, because you had something to say, that something was "I think RC is scum" and a hammer. why would you ask folks to not hammer, and then not pursue more discussion? should I put you on the clueless townie list with me? (are you scum or stupid?)

Nacho didn't ask that no-one hammer. Here's what he said:

That's L-1. Let me hammer.

I read this as "I'm happy with this lynch, I'll hammer"
I was happy with the lynch, I was prepared to hammer, the cop didn't oppose the lynch, so I hammered.

For the second part of your question, there's no mystery. I had a couple of pages to catch up on, and I just didn't want someone to hammer while I was writing a post. Not least because NS tends to be online at around that time of day and so the thread could have been closed shortly after the hammer but before I had gotten to post.
As it turns out I wrote my post fairly quickly (as you say, there wasn't a lot I wanted to talk about) and NS didn't close the thread even though he was the next poster. I didn't know either of those things would happen when I wrote #995.

And to answer your last question, I am neither scum nor stupid. (Although I am incapable of correctly cooking a pizza. So go figure.)

~~~
@DH - every time I have read one of your posts Today, I get the feeling that you have misread stuff that's gone on so far Today.

It's fairly obvious that nacho hasn't got an investigation result on me. Firstly, because nacho has said that he hasn't got an investigation result on me. Secondly, because nacho is asking for my claim, which makes no sense if he has investigated me.

Do me a favour and re-read Today from the beginning, and then summarise your thoughts on the Day so far. After that, you should rejoin us on the Vaswagon.

And what do you mean when you say I have been on every wagon so far?! I've been on some wagons, but I've opposed other wagons...