Open 256~Fire and Ice Mafia Over!

[Me=Weird]

votecount

Not voting(3): Robocopter87, Scott Brosius, curiouskarmadog

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.
Deadline is December 23rd.

[curiouskarmadog]

Robo can you link a game where you were scum?

CKD: I doubt scum would fakeclaim doctor especially in a 2 scum group game. It basically dooms the fakeclaimer while putting the other scum group in a superior position. One scum group means that they are the only ones benefiting from an outed doctor. Two scum groups this isn't the case. Granted some people play this game stupidly, but I saw the chance of a scum fakeclaiming doctor to be pretty low.

i see your point now, I guess I didnt look at it that way. and with both groups killing, an outed doc might draw both kills (thus cancelling out)...which might have happened anyway. I dont know if I still agree with it, but from your POV(if town), I guess I can see how you might have been trying to thin out the pool of suspects. I felt like our Doc was a chance to help win this thing...when I saw you wanted him to claim...I thought "wtf, how is that a good idea"....

ok hoping to hit this game this weekend when I dont have two seconds.

[Robocopter87]

Robo can you link a game where you were scum?

CKD: I doubt scum would fakeclaim doctor especially in a 2 scum group game. It basically dooms the fakeclaimer while putting the other scum group in a superior position. One scum group means that they are the only ones benefiting from an outed doctor. Two scum groups this isn't the case. Granted some people play this game stupidly, but I saw the chance of a scum fakeclaiming doctor to be pretty low.

Wow, didn't even see this, the bump put me on the next page.

Here is all my games, Robo Wiki Page

I warn you this is not up to date. Though I do believe that I haven't had any scum games since. If I think of any I'll make sure to give them to you.

[Robocopter87]

Robo can you link a game where you were scum?

CKD: I doubt scum would fakeclaim doctor especially in a 2 scum group game. It basically dooms the fakeclaimer while putting the other scum group in a superior position. One scum group means that they are the only ones benefiting from an outed doctor. Two scum groups this isn't the case. Granted some people play this game stupidly, but I saw the chance of a scum fakeclaiming doctor to be pretty low.

i see your point now, I guess I didnt look at it that way. and with both groups killing, an outed doc might draw both kills (thus cancelling out)...which might have happened anyway. I dont know if I still agree with it, but from your POV(if town), I guess I can see how you might have been trying to thin out the pool of suspects. I felt like our Doc was a chance to help win this thing...when I saw you wanted him to claim...I thought "wtf, how is that a good idea"....

ok hoping to hit this game this weekend when I dont have two seconds.

Yeah, I was unsure about the whole doc thing, but I kinda perked up for it when I thought about the possibility of confirming players. Just to end up realizing that was not possible and making a fool of myself.

[Scott Brosius]

Robo has been on every wagon.

CKD has been on no wagons except Fire mafia.

I still don't know what this means.

[curiouskarmadog]

I just don’t see SB as scum now…my main issues with SB when entering the game the lack of posting during the night when there was no night kill and the asking for a doc claim. I missed the part where the cross kills of the same person would cancel out the kill. And I can see where he thought he was shrinking the possible pool of suspects with the asking of the doc claim. Also, I have seen CSL get replaced out before, but I really really really doubt he would of left a scum role…looking at his game log around 10/16 (after the marathon) he had other games he chose to stay in.

In the read…Robo is coming off scummy…here is why…some of these points are weak, but added up on a whole it looks scummy…in reading Robo, he goes out of the way to look like the nice town.
1.)

robo and jesse are both town. robo for pushing a game otherwise ripe for scum-stalling-for-win; jesse just on gut.

katsui is a fine lynch. I'll add my vote if needed.

this post on the 3rd page by Lowell, sets up why he will not vote Robo. At this point in the game (58) Robo hasn’t “pushed” anything…He does call jesse out for something he has been pressuring jesse at this point, but that’s it. So why is Robo town for pushing Jesse (who Lowell has a gut town “read” on) and Jesse is town just a gut read. Lowell read on Robo is based on nothing and is essentially a gut read too, but he doesn’t label it so.

This point is weak because later in game (173)Lowell

DJ and robo both look bad with the "no, really guys, I thought he was scum!" posts. They both look like they're overcompensating for being on the wagon. I could vote either. jesse looks town.

I was going to take this point back, but Lowell is again just offering lip service. This is the next day (after the above post)…he doesn’t follow this up with again…I could go into a bunch of reasons why I think this is scummy, but it is really just speculation….but in post (214)(see point 4) he ends up voting DJ with Robo.

Oh wait, no we are back to town again…again for no reason (255)

251 is the right response to 250. Town lists are awesome. Speaking of, jesse and robo are both town, and don looks less and less like the right lynch.

unvote

Why does Lowell keep talking about Robo? No one is asking him to.

2.) I mentioned this is my read of the game when I replaced in..

L-2 on Page Four.

Well.

@ CSL's Pedit #2
I KNO RITE?

this is looks like fake concern...is you really really cared..why did you unvote?...when I asked this of you when I entered to game (471) you ignore this question entirely. why?

3.) I mention this in my read too.
157

Ugh. I really wanna vote DJ but I don't want another Quick wagon then modkill again. I think we need more info and conversation than we had Day One.

I'm going to refrain from placing a vote for now. I need to get a nice Primary suspect.

Then just 6 posts later, boom a vote. What happened to not wanting a quick wagon? That again was fake concern…It also should be noted that Don voted jesse, who Robo was pushing day 1 as scum…Robo’s opinion of jesse ONLY changes when a wagon heats up on Don

4.) (214)

DJ has MUCH the worse of the little dj/jesse spat. Citing his own meta as a defense is a clincher for me.

vote dj

Lowell doesn’t provide much content on this day…in (173) he mentions he find Robo and Dj scummy….but he doesn’t vote Robo…he votes DJ(town) with Robo.

5.)(242) Robo to DJ(town)

No.

Answer the frikkin question,

WHAT DID

YOU

accomplish Day One?

What was the point of this attack?..what did you accomplish day 1?

6.) he was on two townie lynches.

7.)

Do you think we could confirm people by checking who Zed protected? Or is that a bad idea? I mean, its a possibility that we could catch scum by this idea, seeing the amout of Saves/crosskills. Whichever. I mean, it probably wouldn't be 100% confirmed but It still is valuable info.

I really have felt a strong gut read for Scoot. Thats really all I have for him being town. I don't see much scum in him. If push came to shove though, he probably fallls into the PoE.

The first part…this information WOULD ONLY HELP SCUM….there is nothing town to get out of this.

8.) He comes out today swinging at SB with a really really weak case..

When I don’t jump on it with a ton of enthusiasm and SB demonstrates suspicion in me he sways to leave himself open with this post.

Well, I don't know what to think.

--
I am probably going to vote Robo today….I am going to let this sit though..

[curiouskarmadog]

under .2) it is supposed to the "why didnt you unvote"

[Robocopter87]

I just don’t see SB as scum now…my main issues with SB when entering the game the lack of posting during the night when there was no night kill and the asking for a doc claim. I missed the part where the cross kills of the same person would cancel out the kill. And I can see where he thought he was shrinking the possible pool of suspects with the asking of the doc claim. Also, I have seen CSL get replaced out before, but I really really really doubt he would of left a scum role…looking at his game log around 10/16 (after the marathon) he had other games he chose to stay in.

In the read…Robo is coming off scummy…here is why…some of these points are weak, but added up on a whole it looks scummy…in reading Robo, he goes out of the way to look like the nice town.
1.)

robo and jesse are both town. robo for pushing a game otherwise ripe for scum-stalling-for-win; jesse just on gut.

katsui is a fine lynch. I'll add my vote if needed.

this post on the 3rd page by Lowell, sets up why he will not vote Robo. At this point in the game (58) Robo hasn’t “pushed” anything…He does call jesse out for something he has been pressuring jesse at this point, but that’s it. So why is Robo town for pushing Jesse (who Lowell has a gut town “read” on) and Jesse is town just a gut read. Lowell read on Robo is based on nothing and is essentially a gut read too, but he doesn’t label it so.

This point is weak because later in game (173)Lowell

DJ and robo both look bad with the "no, really guys, I thought he was scum!" posts. They both look like they're overcompensating for being on the wagon. I could vote either. jesse looks town.

I was going to take this point back, but Lowell is again just offering lip service. This is the next day (after the above post)…he doesn’t follow this up with again…I could go into a bunch of reasons why I think this is scummy, but it is really just speculation….but in post (214)(see point 4) he ends up voting DJ with Robo.

Oh wait, no we are back to town again…again for no reason (255)

251 is the right response to 250. Town lists are awesome. Speaking of, jesse and robo are both town, and don looks less and less like the right lynch.

unvote

Why does Lowell keep talking about Robo? No one is asking him to.

2.) I mentioned this is my read of the game when I replaced in..

L-2 on Page Four.

Well.

@ CSL's Pedit #2
I KNO RITE?

this is looks like fake concern...is you really really cared..why did you unvote?...when I asked this of you when I entered to game (471) you ignore this question entirely. why?

3.) I mention this in my read too.
157

Ugh. I really wanna vote DJ but I don't want another Quick wagon then modkill again. I think we need more info and conversation than we had Day One.

I'm going to refrain from placing a vote for now. I need to get a nice Primary suspect.

Then just 6 posts later, boom a vote. What happened to not wanting a quick wagon? That again was fake concern…It also should be noted that Don voted jesse, who Robo was pushing day 1 as scum…Robo’s opinion of jesse ONLY changes when a wagon heats up on Don

4.) (214)

DJ has MUCH the worse of the little dj/jesse spat. Citing his own meta as a defense is a clincher for me.

vote dj

Lowell doesn’t provide much content on this day…in (173) he mentions he find Robo and Dj scummy….but he doesn’t vote Robo…he votes DJ(town) with Robo.

5.)(242) Robo to DJ(town)

No.

Answer the frikkin question,

WHAT DID

YOU

accomplish Day One?

What was the point of this attack?..what did you accomplish day 1?

6.) he was on two townie lynches.

7.)

Do you think we could confirm people by checking who Zed protected? Or is that a bad idea? I mean, its a possibility that we could catch scum by this idea, seeing the amout of Saves/crosskills. Whichever. I mean, it probably wouldn't be 100% confirmed but It still is valuable info.

I really have felt a strong gut read for Scoot. Thats really all I have for him being town. I don't see much scum in him. If push came to shove though, he probably fallls into the PoE.

The first part…this information WOULD ONLY HELP SCUM….there is nothing town to get out of this.

8.) He comes out today swinging at SB with a really really weak case..

When I don’t jump on it with a ton of enthusiasm and SB demonstrates suspicion in me he sways to leave himself open with this post.

Well, I don't know what to think.

--
I am probably going to vote Robo today….I am going to let this sit though..

Alright. Response time.

1)Alright, listen, I don't know what he was thinking. he thought I was town. let it be heard that I did push his wagon and got him to be hammered. Just let it be known. I can't really defend myself to this one because this is you making a connection not accusing me.

2)Uh, yes it was fake concern lol. L-2 on Page 2. In other words "Fail". I wasn't going to get lynched, and if it really mattered to me that I didn't get lynched I would just unvote. Umm, I don't remember you asking that. I admit it, I' not a heavy reader. I know I know, thats stupid seeing as this is all about reading but yeah. Most likely scenario, I missed it. if you don't believe, then I don't know what to tell you. And No, im not going to be on my own wagon and kill myself. Self votes are wrong, I was joking around, starting discussion. I did not aim to to kill myself. Which is why i unvoted.

3)I have no defense for this, I should've been more patient. But I doubt and i know that you wouldn't believe a stupid excuse like that.

4)Well, this isn't really a point against me I don't think. He never even mentioned my name. I think your data is to inconsistent. But nonetheless, my response to this is that he must have found Don more scummy I guess.

5)I was defending Jesse, who at that point I had a town read for. His threat was empty. He was being hypocritical, i went a little chainsaw with it but it was still my view on the subject.

6) Whoa Whoa Whoa. No. You fail to realize that I also was on Lowells wagon. I hammered Mallowgeno. And I was the first one on jesse wagon.

7)We;ve been over this, like three times, I made a mistake, you must see where I was going with that. It was just flawed. I didn't realize the stupididty of it until it was all the way down the hill.

8)We've been over this also, I felt you were more town than scott. Theres only two of you left to choose from. Put yourself in my shoes.

[Scott Brosius]

Well being on Fire mafia's wagons is irrelevant, because town and Ice are going to be equally scum-hunting.

[Robocopter87]

True, But I was also on Lowell's Wagon.

[Scott Brosius]

The following link is a game where lowell is scum in similar setup to this (2 player 2 scum teams) if anyone cares to look.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 51&t=15289

My case on CKD coming into this day was the specific scumhunting by Vren but other than that I really don't have much. There are a few WIFOMy things that bother me about Robo.

Killing jmurph N2- This is a pretty random kill for a pretty low-content player. jmurph was pretty adamant that Robo is scum. Why else would jmurph be killed. I know everyone on this site hates looking into NKs, but I've exhausted other options of looking for scumtells.

Ill make posts or something of that sort soon.

Still waiting.

20 minutes later

Ill make posts or something of that sort soon.

Still waiting.

I find this ironic even though the mod said this in his last vote count,

... and Vren is in a race against potential replacements to stay in the game.

So it's clear Robo is following the thread, responding immediately to this. Then it takes another two days to get some content. It is clear Robo is watching the thread pretty carefully as he responded to my most recent post within a half hour. That seems more like scum waiting to hammer a misvote to me than anything else. I wouldn't put it past you to bus Lowell, there was no way he was going to make it to endgame anyway.

Finally, I just don't see 2 replacements necessary for a scum role. I'm sure it has happened before but to me its a coinflip in picking either of you two. So i'm looking at everything.

Usually I value facts much more than gut. But I don't have a lot to go on here, and I don't think looking at this thread any longer will result in a more informed decision.

Vote: Robocopter

[Robocopter87]

Which gives CKD the hammer.

[Me=Weird]

Prodding curiouskarmadog.

votecount

Robocopter87(1): Scott Brosius
Not voting(2): Robocopter87, curiouskarmadog

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.
Deadline is december 23rd.

[Robocopter87]

Yeah, tell him Scott voted me, he'll come running.

[curiouskarmadog]

i see the vote....going to read to see what I missed.

[curiouskarmadog]

havent read robo's post yet....will try to get to this asap...

also, skimmed SB's post...why no reply Robo?

[curiouskarmadog]

Yeah, tell him Scott voted me, he'll come running.

why do you say that?...do you think i am scum?

[Robocopter87]

VOTE: Scott

Holy Crap. He didn't kill me.

havent read robo's post yet....will try to get to this asap...

also, skimmed SB's post...why no reply Robo?

I didn't think a reply would be necessary if I was going to die but it looks like you are confirmed town in my book CKD. Meaning my vote above.

I guess I will reply now, though I think it will jsut be thread clogging, because to be totally honest and real about the situation. What we say shouldn't make a difference to your choice between who is scum CKD. Decide yourself who you feel is scum. Though we will fight like declawed cats we won't gain any ground unless one of us slips up.

Will reply to Scott.

[Robocopter87]

The Jmurph kill is just WIFOM. I don't really think that it is a valid point. Zed had not yet claimed, its completely understandable for them to be looking for a Doctor. Yes I did go back to check to see if Zed had claimed before that. He claimed after jmurphs death.

The Vren thing, errrrr... yes I saw what Vren said. No I wasnt really working on this game very much. I take the damage given here.

I can;t defend against your gut. Though I do agree that LyLos usually should be judged on gut, not fact. I understand your vote. Like I said, this is pointless. Declawed ca fight. But whatever.

[curiouskarmadog]

I forgot about the jmurph kill...

hate being the deciding vote here, but..

vote Robo

....

really thought going into today I was going to be the lynch. Especially if Robo was lynched yesterday....basically HAD to beg for zed to vote Jesse...I hope I was a good replacement for the town in the end.

Robo...were you scum?

[Me=Weird]

votecount

Robocopter87(2): Scott Brosius, curiouskarmadog
Scott Brosius(1): Robocopter87

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.
Deadline is december 23rd.

Robocopter87,

Ice Mafia Goon,

lynched Day 6.
Scott Brosius and curiouskarmadog,

Vanilla Townies,

survive and win, as do the rest of you townies (except for shotty) and Zed!
Town wins!

Commentary later(probably).

[Zed]

Yay

[Scott Brosius]

Hooray!

[Scott Brosius]

I would like to see night actions

[Zed]

No, you really don't want to see who I was protecting. I would have made a great cop >.>