Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[DemonHybrid]

If it were not for injustice, men would not know justice.
Heraclitus (540 BC - 480 BC)

Vote Count

Day 1 Vote Count (#13)

Guderian

- 6 (Reckamonic, singersigner, Powerrox93, Seraphim, sims5487, AGar)

Seraphim

- 1 (Carrotcake)

AGar

- 1 (Blood Queen)

Powerrox93

- 1 (Thor665)

Reckamonic

- 1 (Guderian)

Not Voting

- 2 (Rhinox, ConfidAnon)

With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 for a No Lynch. Deadline is scheduled for December 21st, 2010 at 1:00:00 AM Eastern Standard Time.

Powerrox93 will be V/LA after Sunday, December 26th until an unknown time.

Rhinox is V/LA on the weekends (Friday to Sunday)

You have SIX days to lynch.

[/area]

[AGar]

Am I supposed to respond to 246?

I think you just did.

But if you want a direct question to answer, why BQ first instead of sims?

BQ's vote looked scum-motivated.

sims I don't have a behavior based scum-read on, only associative.

It was all in the timing and nature of BQ's vote.

---

Thor, Gud vote was based on his admitting to claiming an anti-town role to further an agenda. Town doesn't have agendas.d

---

Gud, first - there were no frothing masses. Stop getting so anxious about L-1. Second, no, I'd rather vote you and force you to feel uncomfortable, feel pressured. You've reacted rather poorly. Also, stop trying to be Hoopla. You're not Hoopla, and if you think scum wins those games by doing nothing, it just shows you don't have a real grasp on this game like Hoopla does.

Your belief that you are cleared because scum doesn't do anything, and you are doing something, is so ass-backwards it isn't even funny.

3:9's are horrible for town, but the change isn't reliant on what town is dowing, it's reliant on how the setups are designed. But save that for MD, not here.

---

Gud needs the rope. He seems to believe that he is playing the most pro-town game we've seen, but he's managed to instead just pull the entire town's attention onto him, claims to have had an agenda, and his behavior has been dodgy and seems to have attempted to be able to be pegged in a read by anyone.

[Guderian]

Hold on. Don't get anxious at L-1? I just let and be hammered?

Dont have a grasp on the games?

Also avoided:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

[Reckamonic]

Hold on. Don't get anxious at L-1? I just let and be hammered?

Dont have a grasp on the games?

People are at L-1 all the time, only VIs would hammer someone at L-1 without a claim. The fact you're scared of being hammered post claim is laughable at best if you're town.

Also, you've failed to adress how we established your stats are bullock.

If you had ANY grasp on how the games work, you wouldn't be faking daykills, you would be answering points made against you, you'd post cases when asked to explain how a player is scummy, you wouldn't claim an anti-town role for the lols, you wouldn't refuse to claim at L-1, you wouldn't be trying to blackmail your town reads and you would not be on the verge of a lynch because you think you're smart.

If there's only one thing you get from this game, we very much hope it's humility.

[Guderian]

The last 50 3:9 games are 37 mafia, 13 town.

Typing wall of text post is anti-town and why the town loses so much. I have 3 newer players on my lynch because they thought I was a legit SK, 2 scum, and seraphim.

You're not as good as you think you are. So stop.

[singersigner]

Hold on. Don't get anxious at L-1? I just let and be hammered?

Dont have a grasp on the games?

Also avoided:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

How did he avoid them? Looks to me like this

Considering Gud-scum,

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

Bussing you (sim) and going "hey, we should compromise" (carrotcake)
The counterwagon would be Seraphim, except nobody is buying into Carrot's crap, so it's not taking off.

is answering it just fine.

Gud, if you really have nothing to lose because you are truly town, then I am asking, no begging, PLEASE acknowledge and answer all of the questions I, and I'm sure a few others, have asked. My patience is wearing thin.

[Guderian]

I was talking to Agar...

[Reckamonic]

The last 50 3:9 games are 37 mafia, 13 town

3:9 Closed Mini Normals (171 games) (46.6%)

Mafia wins: 107 (62.6%)
Town Wins: 62 (36.3%)
Draw: 2 (1.1%)

Don't use stats if you're going to use all of them

Typing wall of text post is anti-town and why the town loses so much. I have 3 newer players on my lynch because they thought I was a legit SK, 2 scum, and seraphim.

You know, there's a very good possibility the "newer" players on your list are better than you are (or ever will be, with your current mentality) and are voting you for much more than your little claim

You haven't given a case on either of the player you're calling scum.

[Reckamonic]

I was talking to Agar...

When most of a post is directed at us, it's not avoiding to suppose the last line also is =_=

[Reckamonic]

Fun fact: of your three "newer players", only 1 is newer than you <<

[singersigner]

I was talking to Agar...

and we're supposed to know that...how?

[singersigner]

Gud, I have a question for you (or maybe a couple):
-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

Let's try this again...

[Reckamonic]

Good luck getting your answer, he DID try to shoot you <<

[Guderian]

For one, Why would we show trends from years ago. Are you insane? Use the most recent data. It shows the trends, and the trend is town losing.
For two, even if we use that, town wins a paltary 36% of the time. Are you claiming this is good?

At this point, i'm tired of putting up with bullshit arguments from the loudmouth singer/recka (whoever this hydra is) and what have you.

(How about this recka. If i'm town, both of your hyrdas are IP banned from this site forever. I'll take the exact same bet. If im scum, I'm gone. Want to?)

I made a case on you. You seem to think because I have 6 votes on me my argument is invaild. You're wrong.

preview: that whole post was directed at Agar.

singer:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

[singersigner]

Good luck getting your answer, he DID try to shoot you <<

Good point.

[Guderian]

Alert: this is the last post I will post any sort of defense about.

-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

1. Correct. But, what I got was what the town got. I'm not concerned with how you find my attitude. You obviously don't like me.
2. REACTIONS.
3. To be honest, I didn't anticipate this gang bang to occur. Seriously. Why Would I draw attention to myself like that.
4. REACTIONS. Like recka/agar scum, with one prob off the wagon. Thinking confid/rhinox. Maybe more. Most of the scum wont want to be involved in this terrible mislynch when it happens.

[singersigner]

Alert: this is the last post I will post any sort of defense about.

-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

1. Correct. But, what I got was what the town got. I'm not concerned with how you find my attitude. You obviously don't like me.
2. REACTIONS.
3. To be honest, I didn't anticipate this gang bang to occur. Seriously. Why Would I draw attention to myself like that.
4. REACTIONS. Like recka/agar scum, with one prob off the wagon. Thinking confid/rhinox. Maybe more. Most of the scum wont want to be involved in this terrible mislynch when it happens.

1. Yes, yes. We all got the same thing. But notice how you compare what you got to what town got, not what town wanted.
2. I understand the reactions part of it, but amidst all your fluff about reactions, I've still been unclear as to your interpretations of them. Not until your answer to #4...but I'd like you to embellish as to how their reactions are terribly incriminating when sims, power, and I (your three town reads), had the same-ish reactions.
3. WIFOM.
4. What happened to Thor being scum? You seemed so confident he was scum earlier, with no reasoning of course. And curious...how many scum ARE there?

You call this a terrible mislynch. Honestly, because of your little charade, I think the best thing for town is if you hung your head between your legs and took it like a man. If you're around later in the game, it can cause more problems. The best way to deal with this unfortunate situation is to get rid of it, and learn what we can from there. Something that's great about these games, is that we can always afford at least one mislynch, and if this is it, and least we won't have your crappy logic/shinnigans to deal with in the future. PLUS, we can take your reads and actually trust them to more of an extent than we can now. I really hope you can see how that would be more beneficial to town than what you did.

[Reckamonic]

(How about this recka. If i'm town, both of your hyrdas are IP banned from this site forever. I'll take the exact same bet. If im scum, I'm gone. Want to?)

That's laughable.

[Reckamonic]

I think the best thing for town is if you hung your head between your legs and took it like a man.

That's probably impractical for a lynch though...

[Seraphim]

Alright carrot, I'll bite. It seems

your

entire case is based around semantics. In fact, you seem have to decided that just because we can't decided what constitutes a VI, that I'm scum.

Do you believe people who go after VIs, for the sake of being VIs, scummy?
The answer is yes.
Your so called case on my is based on that.

I have not construed a case on you. I have not pretended to create a case on you. That's not how I operate. If I had made a case on you, I would be voting you. I merely pointed it out in my reread and said you looked scummy for it. I never said it made you scum.

And you're still misconstruing my point. It's really easy to push the buttons on supposed VI players. I don't even know if I would consider singer a VI. My statement is based on this:

Extreme inability to present herself in a way that is coherent and readable for fellow town-members resulting in potential liability of a mislynch in key scenarios.

assessment.

I would assume that scum would try to push for a reaction like this in order to get a mislynch. That's where the "scum will try to push buttons for VIs" notion comes from.

Misrep-Strawman. You sure love buzzwords!
Work in advertising.
Though, learn what they mean first.

This is like textbook misrep. You 'distilled' my case to saying that Guderian is playing like a VI, we should lynch him, there's a condradiction in that because I called singer a VI and said she wasn't scum.

OBVSCUM AMIRITE LOL NO

I said Guder isn't a VI. I still stand by that. However, Guder is an idiot. I also stand by that.

Before I get to the reasons for me voting Guder, let's go over this:

Perception.
A: If you are town you have baselessly declared.
B: If you are scum you have inside knowledge.

A is irrational
It's likely B

Alright. You have postulated that people who make baseless declarations are scum. I won't refute this yet but I'll play along.

So, why am I voting Guder? Let's count the reasons why, they are ever evolving.
1. Since you seem so obsessed with it, how about baselessly declaring Blood Queen scum? Link
2. This post is absolutely terrible and scumtastic.
3. Boy oh boy, I love these baseless declarations of alignment! Link
4. Look here's another!
5. He claimed SK.
6. He seems to regret the claim and has been filling the game with bullshit about 'numbers' and 'shaking up the game' which is just putting the spotlight on him.
7. He pretended to daykill a player in a serious manner, a player that he stated he had a town read on.
8.

How about this recka. If i'm town, both of your hyrdas are IP banned from this site forever. I'll take the exact same bet. If im scum, I'm gone. Want to?

This is fucking terrible for so many reasons and is the sort of WIFOM that you DON'T USE AS THE BASIS FOR YOUR ARGUMENT.
9. lolololololol

Town play is irrational. I am irrational. Guderian is irrational. Do you want me to find more scum using your amazing tell of awesome?

Wait, is this a misrep-strawman-hydra!?!?

No, this is "you voting Thor" and you accusing me at the same time. If you're attacking us at the same time, we must be scum together, right? This isn't a terrible leap here. You imply a "Thor-Seraph" connection through your attacks on the two of us, especially when part of the attack on me is based on a connection to Thor.

From: "Thor is so town it hurts." - implies confidence
to
"It's Gut" - Implies opinion and fallibility. Basically ret-conning his scummy attitude.

If you couldn't tell that my initial read was a gut one, I'm sorry for you.

I'm not going to outline a case for him being town. He is town in my eyes until he proves otherwise, innocent until proven guilty.

Before being idiotic and spreading your, now admitted, baseless beliefs.

Double standards much?

Momentum on thor is dying. So now I can persuit what I really want.

lol

BTW, your fencesitting on Guderian does not look good. Is he town or scum? Choose now so that we can remember it when he flips scum and peg you as his buddy.

[Blood Queen]

Post 149, made by Power

Do we really have to deal with 'maybe' arguments ._.?
Anyway, if this was the case, why didn't you say so with your first reaction to the accusation?

As for post 154 Why didn't you ask about the AGar 'suspicion' after Thor explained the reason behind the Rhinox 'suspicions'? And what's your reason for voting Thor?

About post 287, what do you think were Gud's reasons for claiming SK?


(To explain why I'm going to post each player individually, I read about posts not coming through after a certain amount of text >.<)

[Rhinox]

hey guys, I've been having trouble reading all the thread and posting replies because of the board problems that have been going on. The end of the page won't load...

Am I supposed to respond to 246?

I think you just did.

But if you want a direct question to answer, why BQ first instead of sims?

BQ's vote looked scum-motivated.

sims I don't have a behavior based scum-read on, only associative.

It was all in the timing and nature of BQ's vote.

I still don't understand the logic.

You said the scum motivation in BQ's vote was protecting scumbuddy sims. If sims is not scum, then whats the justification for BQ-scum? You haven't given any other justification, so your logic says that BQ is scum iff sims is scum. Which means sims should be lynched first, right? Because your case for BQ-scum is built on the assumption that sims is scum.

I can see scum motivation for going after BQ if both BQ and sims are town and you are scum. If BQ is town and you're just making up some BS wagon analysis tells to support lynches, a BQ mislynch does not rule out a sims mislynch on a later day, but a sims mislynch today would mean you no longer have a case on BQ and it would be harder to get a lynch there in later days. Sims is also less experienced and would be an easier opportunistic mislynch in later days, so more worthwhile for scum to keep around. I already have a town read on sims, which is why I can not buy into your reasoning to lynch BQ. I think your broken logic is scum motivated, so I'm going to

vote: Agar

----------------------------------------------------------------

Gud... should be lynched. He deserves to be lynched. But I don't think he's scum. We can lynch him, and all act surprised tomorrow that someone who is town could play so horribly, and we can justify by saying how anti-town he was and its good he's gone, and we can claim its best for the site overall to discourage this kind of play, but in this stand alone game it is about lynching scum - a town player is a town number, and right now, I think gud is probably town, and I can't support his lynch.

Gud, if you really are town, knock it off and learn how to play the status quo before you try to challenge it. How many of those 50 games that you like quoting the statistics of were you a part of? Do you even know what it is you're trying to change?

[Thor665]

Thor, Gud vote was based on his admitting to claiming an anti-town role to further an agenda. Town doesn't have agendas.d

If he'd said 'to further scumhunting' would you still be voting him?

Why am I not getting a super town read off you today dude?

Rhinox is now pretty obvious town to my mind.

@Blood Queen - why the sudden attention to the Powerrox case?

[Reckamonic]

Alert: this is the last post I will post any sort of defense about.

And now you're just refusing to defend yourself, which is

what the fuck you do when you play mafia

?

You're one of the most arrogant, pretentious, and all around

awful

players we've ever encountered. Please enjoy your rope and subsequent lynch.

[Powerrox93]

Post 149, made by Power

Do we really have to deal with 'maybe' arguments ._.?¹
Anyway, if this was the case, why didn't you say so with your first reaction to the accusation? ¹

As for post 154 Why didn't you ask about the AGar 'suspicion' after Thor explained the reason behind the Rhinox 'suspicions'?¹ And what's your reason for voting Thor?²

1: The answer lies in post 168 (Has everyone forgotten that post?)
2: According to him (at least before) you're scum if someone else posted what you wanted to say when you didn't have access to a computer.

About post 287, what do you think were Gud's reasons for claiming SK?

To try to look townier by doing something a townie would never do.
Gud has claimed SK, he can't un-claim now.