Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[DemonHybrid]

Meh, mise well wait for potential counterclaim.

Yeah, beat me to the punch.

Investigate AGar tonight. Lets find out if this Haylen/AGar argument really is scum vs town.

[Xine]

since we don't know who is lying, I would say give your results today, but hey, that's your call. My vote going to Agar, I don't really have time to go into why, gotta go to work now. In a nutshell, I liked eldarad's responses. did not like AGar's

VOTE: AGAR

[Xine]

let's lynch him today and then lynch whichever of the claimed doc's are still alive tomorrow

[Haylen]

So, if Elderad really is doc and AGar flips scum then we have all three of them! Yay! Anyone else remember Jack saying he was either Cop or Doc?

[Glork]

DH, you are not calling any shots from here on out. You're still Nikanor's replacement, and still also decently likely to be scum.

It's quite good to know that at least one of my top two suspects (Eldarad, Nik/DH) is definitely scum, though.

We are not going to waste any time lynching either of the Doctors today. The scums will be

FORCED

to kill the Doctor either tonight or tomorrow night, lest they continue to give Nacho free nights to investigate.

If the scums refuse to kill the Doctor, they give Nacho additional free investigations, and we will pick one of Eldarad/DH to lynch

on the day before potential Lynch-Or-Lose

. That way if we pick wrong, while we would be in LyLo, we would definitely have at least one confirmed scumbag to lynch.

Unvote

NOTE: This plan changes if Nacho reveals an innocent result on DH (although I don't expect that to happen).

[Glork]

VasudeVa:

Who are the remaining three scums?

Substrike22:

Same question.

AGar:

If Eldarad is scum, who is his most likely scumbuddy? If DH is scum, who is *his* most likely scumbuddy?

[Glork]

I'm pretty sure I'd like to lynch either AGar or VasudeVa today. Vasude has done next to nothing all day. Resident lurkerscum supreme.

[DemonHybrid]

I like this plan. Thanks, glork.

I'm taking finals at the moment but I'll give full thoughts later.

[DemonHybrid]

Xine, there's no reason for having nacho release info now. He will be protected, even if I get shot tonight.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

[Nachomamma8]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

DH why did you counterclaim? We were just gonna no-lynch after he was outed as doctor ;[[[

Oh well.

Vote: Nocumen

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 5.04

eldarad - 3 - Substrike22, AGar, Haylen
VasudeVa - 2 - eldarad, Lowell
AGar - 1 - Xine
Nocmen - 1 - Nachomamma8
Substrike22 - 1 - Nocmen

Not Voting: VasudeVa, Glork, DemonHybrid

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: January January 3

V/LA: Substrike22, through Sunday (....if I can count to four correctly)

[Nachomamma8]

Glork, why don't you want to lynch Nocumen?

[Lowell]

1079 is correct. This game is turning into an easy one.

[Nobody Special]

VasudeVa has been prodded.

[Nachomamma8]

mothrax:
Mothrax is scum due to interactions with LMP. He defends LMP, he makes votes that save LMP from being bandwagoned at times, and, has an absolutely terrible bandwagon vote on snake.

Spoiler: Examples

ISO 1: Response to Azazels vote on LMP. Reads as scumbuddy defending scumbuddy.
ISO 3: Reasonless, bandwagon vote. However, this is ESPECIALLY significant considering it was a vote on Empking when he was the counterwagon to LMP. Mothrax's vote tied Empking's and LMP's wagon.
ISO 4: Votes snake for being melodramatic. He makes it seem like a pressure vote by saying "Let's see how you react at L-3...", but never follows up on it, comments it, or moves it. To this point, he also hadn't mentioned snake at all.

Nocumen:
The case on Nocumen is simpler. His interactions like LMP look like failed bussing; despite him being Nocumen's top suspect after a reread, the only time he really comments on LMP is in his ISO #8. He then slides onto an AGar wagon without reason to accompany the change. He tries to salvage some of the town cred from bussing by asking LMP if he thought about "the reasons why [Nocumen] found him scum yesterday". Well, why would he? You dropped the case on him...





Oh, by the way, we're lynching Haylen or Nocumen today.

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[Nocmen]

So I'm not allowed to drop a case because I think someone else is scum? I see that as you just saying anything you dislike against me, due to the fact that you could use me still focusing on LMP as tunneling on him.

Also, the reason why I ignored the whole eldarad thing was due to the fact that I didn't see him as scum, and I think that yesterday's case was pretty straightforward for it. I did not see reason to blindly follow as you requested.

[AGar]

AGar:

If Eldarad is scum, who is his most likely scumbuddy? If DH is scum, who is *his* most likely scumbuddy?

If Eldarad: From an outside perspective, I get the Eldarad -> AGar connection. I don't see how you see the reverse, but there's no way I can take an unbiased approach to that. I see a bigger Eldarad <-> Substrike/AH connection, more on Substrike. Eldarad completely skirted Antihero entirely, while Substrike made it very quick to jump on the wagon based on just being told to.

If DH: Haylen. Ignore everything I brought up for the meat of it for this one. Just look at Nik's defense of her - the meta was a null-tell. It was about as weak as defenses get, no matter what the pressure it is. It leaves room open for a bus while still tries to avert a potential lynch. Haylen hopped right along in line with Nik's so-called "slip" he found, then has ignored the slot well since. In the fact that she hasn't even mentioned it at all.

---

Also, a slight bit about Haylen I seem to have missed earlier:

Post #378

AtoE isn't scummy in itself but I think he is trying to make town scared of lynching him especially with the premature claim.

Post #574

There is no such thing as AtE

Direct contradiction here.

[AGar]

Since we're not moving forward with Eldarad.

UNVOTE:

[Haylen]

Haylen hopped right along in line with Nik's so-called "slip" he found, then has ignored the slot well since.

I'm more interested in obtaining an AGar lynch at the moment.

As for the AtE stuff: Nice strawmanning. Try reading the context of what you are quoting before you actually accuse someone of something. AtE isn't scummy in itself BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST. However, I do agree that making the town scared to lynch someone is an appeal to town fear, fear is an emotion but there is no such thing as Appealing to another players emotions because that's a very broad term. For example, you cannot appeal to a persons happiness in a game to try and get them to do something, but you could appeal to their boredom. To summarize, you cannot appeal to positive emotions in games and the only way for negative emotions to be appeals to in games is for the other player to be affected. It's pretty obv when a player is trying to do that with scummy intent and I would argue that these are the times when it is most obvious that that was the intent. When a person doesn't intend for something to be taken as this it is less obvious and you usually get a scum trying to strawman it like AGar is here.

AtE doesn't exist in the way people assume it to.

Unvote, Vote Agar.

Oh, by the way, we're lynching Haylen or Nocmen today.

Hmph, why?

[Xine]

The reason I chose Agar to vote is mostly because of his change in tone. as soon as Eldarad was targeted he became friendly in a way that reminded me of UK-Scum. Obv the situation is different here, but the similarity is striking.

Vas is on my scumdar as well, still waiting to see what he has to say today before I finish judging.

Lowell, because of his play style is difficult to read, and becomes a really easy mis-lynch target near end game, and I would recomend that Nacho investigate him if he hasn't done so already.

Expect my activity to be even lower then normal for the weekend. Mini scum-meet happening at my place today thru mon. Not calling it V/LA, as, I will make sure to read along as always, and maybe even make a short post during that time.

[eldarad]

I agree with the xine/Glork plan of sidestepping the doc issue until Tomorrow.

I can get behind a haylen lynch, but I think Vas is a much better lynch prospect Today. I don't really see the merit of an AGar lynch.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 5.05

AGar - 2 - Xine, Haylen
VasudeVa - 2 - eldarad, Lowell
eldarad - 1 - Substrike22
Nocmen - 1 - Nachomamma8
Substrike22 - 1 - Nocmen

Not Voting: VasudeVa, Glork, DemonHybrid, AGar

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: January January 3

V/LA: Substrike22, through Sunday (....if I can count to four correctly)

[AGar]

Haylen, I'm going to assume you don't read your own posts, because in the same post, you say "AtE doesn't exist in the way people believe it to" and "AtE doesn't exist."

This is the kind of contradiction I pointed out once, where you pulled out a nice little buzzword. Do you realize what strawmanning is? It's creating another argument and providing that I've responded to it.

How is pointing something out saying I've refuted your argument? You made a very clear contradiction in what I pointed out. You can't say something doesn't exist and then acknowledge it. It. Doesn't. Work. That. Way.

FFS, learn your buzzwords before you spew them.

VOTE: Haylen

[Haylen]

You're third paragraph makes no sense.

FFS learn to read before you make judgements about another player.

Strawmanning: The action of pointing out something someone has done and blowing it out of proportion.

I said that pure AtE doesn't exist. Subgroups do.

You never did defend my case on you. I gather you don't have a defense and that I'm correct. You have shown examples of either not reading the thread or misrepping me entirely. For example: Saying there was never a bandwagon on me when there was ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE.