Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.

[Parama]

I really see no reason why we should not execute one of {Jack, ribwich}. As none of them took their claim back, it is clear that one of them has to be scum.
Since lynching the consulmaker is in no way worse than lynching a VT, we basically have a 50% chance of hitting scum without any drawback. you will never get such a high

a priori

(that is, without relying on scum/town-tells) percentage elsewhere.

And if both are town, we just lost two lynches based on a flawed dichotomy. Why you pushed the consulmaker lynch on D1 is beyond me.

PS:

FoS: chesskid

, for his nonsense-attack on me.

This supposed "attack" was chesskid (my player slot) saying he disagreed with Nathanael's tribune vote on Lowell (in less subtle language, of course.) That he took it as an attack is scum paranoia.

case two, Jack and ribwich are scum: the consulmaker chooses one out of each group, best case both consuls survive and we know two scum, worst case one consul dies and we lynch one of {Jack, ribwich} (the one who's group the consul was not in). extremely unlikely worst case, both consuls die, in this case we look at the players who died, if there are only two players, it's as if we had the consuls, and will know everything. should there be three deaths, probably the third consulmaker should out himself

this is plain and simple filler. there is no way 2 scum would both claim consulmaker and cc each other.

case three, Jack and ribwich are both town. I am not going to consider this case because in this case one of them is a complete idiot. the only possible way this could be, is if the mod had forced one townie to claim consulmaker. (

mod, is there anything bastardly in this game?

)

Watch and learn:
Jacktown claims consulmaker to cover for the real consulmaker and try to attract a kill as a VT.
Ribwichtown the idiot ccs because he is unable to process this simple thought process and ruins the entire point of Jack's claim.
That Nath doesn't even try and consider this option FROM HIS POSITION shows that he's aiming towards the dichotomy and is scum trying to set up two mislynches based on claims alone. Even a 3rd grader has enough of the brain to come up with the solution, "Oooh they could both be town right? right? Riiiight?"

FoS: SensFan

This random FoS now gives Nath the ability to veto every single lynch Sens tried to push without looking bad for it. Clever, huh?

VETO: chesskid's execution.

PS: SensFan is scum.

Like that! See? Seeeeee?
It's funny because Nath put up that FoS of chesskid earlier, and chesskid doesn't tend to do much to get rid of those. It's like he's forgetting his own reads OH WAIT.

why do you think that SensFan is town?

Why do you think SensFan is scum? Saying something over and over doesn't make it true.

Parama, mind some thoughts?

Yes I would and I did and I have no clue why you asked this less than 24 hours after I replaced in even after I promised to put up content shortly after which I did oh joy. It's like you're looking for reasons to suspect me

EXECUTE: SensFan!

Spoiler: ...

yes, I know he is unlynchable. I just wanted to draw attention to how scummy he is.

Still don't see any explanation.

VETO: KATSUKI's EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

"LET'S MAKE IT LOOK LIKE ME AND KATS ARE SCUM TOGETHER SO THAT:
A. If Kats gets lynched, I look like town for trying to delay the lynch!
B. If I get lynched, Kats looks like my scumbuddy!"
Yeah. I already went over this.

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

see above

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

we are not executing Katsuki today.

EXECUTE: Parama

'nuff said

Also, Parama is the most obv-town player in the game FFS.

tell me how Parama is obv-town!

tell me why you think I'm scum?
You do nothing but ask questions of people without providing answers yourself.

vote: Nathanael

P.S. thanks for refreshing my memory, I'd forgotten everything I remember about this game

[xRECKONERx]

Reck: Do you honestly think dram is scum? If you knew it would go unvetoed, would you execute him right now if you had the chance?

Yes. I'd execute him the second the day started and not think twice about it.

[ribwich]

Watch and learn:
Jacktown claims consulmaker to cover for the real consulmaker and try to attract a kill as a VT.
Ribwichtown the idiot ccs because he is unable to process this simple thought process and ruins the entire point of Jack's claim.
That Nath doesn't even try and consider this option FROM HIS POSITION shows that he's aiming towards the dichotomy and is scum trying to set up two mislynches based on claims alone. Even a 3rd grader has enough of the brain to come up with the solution, "Oooh they could both be town right? right? Riiiight?"

If this is what really happened, Jack made a terrible move. There was no need for me to have cover. This isn't a real power role. If I die, the honors go to another VT anyway, so the only reason I'm even likely to get targeted is because I'm confirmed town. People that were pushing for the dichotomy are not scummy, or else we have more scum players than town players in this game.

[Nathanael]

parama's case is nonsense.
I was wrong in the beginning, yes. so what? I thought 50% lynch is better than random and didn't think that we could confirm the consulmaker

what you keep calling a false dichotomy, is just the logical thought. the first, simplest thing to assume when you have two contradicting claims is that one of them is scum.
right now I am rethinking that, since Jack's post made some sense, but why would anyone assume there were two town cc'in each other?

right now I think Jack is nully, but I think he did a really bad move if he really was town.

sensfan made some nonsensical arguments, his tunnel on chesskid was just plain crap. I somehow accepted his play later, but I'd still put him in my slight scumreads.

case two, Jack and ribwich are scum: the consulmaker chooses one out of each group, best case both consuls survive and we know two scum, worst case one consul dies and we lynch one of {Jack, ribwich} (the one who's group the consul was not in). extremely unlikely worst case, both consuls die, in this case we look at the players who died, if there are only two players, it's as if we had the consuls, and will know everything. should there be three deaths, probably the third consulmaker should out himself

this is plain and simple filler. there is no way 2 scum would both claim consulmaker and cc each other.

I included this case because someone else was talking about a possible third consulmaker.
I just wanted my argument to be complete as I prefer complete arguments in any case.

Nathaniel: Was there ever a time when you were thinking you would allow katsuki to be executed? If not, why keep the charade up by constantly doing attempts on her?

I always thought that lynching Katsuki could be an option. I just wanted some more time to decide. no reason to rush. his late posts looked townish to me so I stated I wasn't going to allow his lynch in the end. since I found powerrox slightly scummy, I accepted the suggestion and executed him.


PS: I know you will dismiss this as OMGUS, but I don't care. Parama's attack on me is just nonsense. I have seen him play town, he was quite awesome and found all scum.

vote, Parama

[Parama]

PS: I know you will dismiss this as OMGUS, but I don't care. Parama's attack on me is just nonsense. I have seen him play town, he was quite awesome and found all scum.

vote, Parama

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

[SensFan]

SensFan: Did you think powerrox was going to flip scum? If not, why didn't you veto the execution?

I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

[ribwich]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

Was this a specific to the situation idea that you can share, or do you need to keep it secret since its general enough that it could be used again later in the game?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Jack will be executed Sunday 15:14 GMT.

[SensFan]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

Was this a specific to the situation idea that you can share, or do you need to keep it secret since its general enough that it could be used again later in the game?

It's a strategy that would allow any Consulmaker an extreme amount of leverage to say "My way or the highway." I can share it if you want, but I won't without more people asking, since it's dangerous in the wrong hands.

[ribwich]

No that's okay. I was just curious if you were intentionally not mentioning it or didn't think to.

[Jack]

If Consulmaker, execute ribwich tomorrow.

Jacktown claims consulmaker to cover for the real consulmaker and try to attract a kill as a VT.

If this is what really happened, Jack made a terrible move. There was no need for me to have cover.

You three read 686.

Solution: We execute him. If he's town, we give the comment some gravity. If he's scum, we ignore it completely.

What's your opinion on xreck, or lowell and scotmany for that matter? And if I was scum why would you ignore xreck doing a flip a doodle on me for bad reasons?

[scotmany12]

Drunk and high post.

I have no intention of vetoing Jack's execution. His case on me, lowell, and parama are incredibly contrived. And the fact the he did not say he fakeclaimed the post after we gave him the opportunity to do so is idiotic, and I see no reason town jack would do so. And if he is town, I am certain he has at least two of those reads wrong (i know i'm town, and parama seems sincere in everyone of his posts, lowell is a mastery though), which make his stupid fucking gambit a fucking idiotic move and he should never ever pull it again you fucking idiot. Thank god i'm positive you are scum.

[SensFan]

scot, are you willing to waive your veto right?

[Nathanael]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

this is the game we were in together until a few weeks ago: click

[Nathanael]

EBWOP: "few weeks" should read "few days"

[Jack]

which make his stupid fucking gambit a fucking idiotic move and he should never ever pull it again you fucking idiot.

Too passionate for something you claim to be sure isn't the case.

[Parama]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

this is the game we were in together until a few weeks ago: click

I'm still good at catching scum y'know

[Nathanael]

then go and catch scum, will ya?

[ribwich]

2) I get counterclaimed and we kick of day 1 with practically everyone commenting on who they think is lying and who they think is scum. Scum KNOW that neither of us are scum. Town DOES NOT KNOW that. This is excellent. The fact that people generally didn't get it bodes well for the quality of the reads based on it.

After rereading the post, this part is making me rethink things. I was originally thinking that reck and parama look scummy for trying to protect their scummate, but if Jack flips town, they actually look even more suspicious. The fact that they're acting like it's so obvious for Jack to be town when it really isn't obvious suggests that they have outside knowledge that Jack isn't scum. We'd still have to kill you today, but if it does turn out that you are town, there actually will be information to gain from it.

[Porochaz]

I understand the Jack vote... however Jack has a reputation for risks and Im more willing to believe he is town. Im not sure why ribwich was allowed to be consul and one Primates latest posts hit me really badly. Will see about dealing with it later. In the same breath, I totally agree with Parama and was planning (on Monday when I have a day free) to make a semi decent post about Nathaniel. The whole play the latter half of yesterday was not in towns best interests and today its just been weird. He needs to go now!

vote Nathaniel

[Jack]

Execute: Jack

I wanna kill Reeeeeeeeeeck ;_;

Veto and execute xreck.

xreck's ungenuine waffling.

lowell's opportunistic forgetfullness.

scotmanies "I'm sure jack is scum" combined with cussing me out for a "stupid fucking gambit". If he was sure he'd caught jack-scum in this scenario it would be "haha, that was easy".

A lynch on me is lazy and crappy.

claim:masonizer

masonizing FAILED on moi as expected.

unvote, vote:magnaofillusion

but I think I'm voting him already.

# Sotty7 - Roleblocker - killed Night 4
# Zajnet - Townie - lynched Day 5

# Jack - Townie - killed Night 5

# Porochaz - Townie - lynched Day 7

And just for kicks:

MagnaofIllusion - Mafia Goon - survived

[ribwich]

I'm probably going to get some flak for this, and I'm surprised myself that I'm actually doing this...

VETO JACK EXECUTION

I'm not saying I for sure think he's town. There's a chance that this has all been a big scum gambit, but I can now really see the pro-town reasons for what he did. There's better execution choices for today.

[SensFan]

Jesus Christ, you're a fucking dumbass.
And to the rest of you, this is

exactly

why we don't give anyone the power to decide on the Consuls, then veto their decision.

[SpyreX]

:headdesk:

[ribwich]

Oh come on SensFan. You of all people should be able to see what there is to gain from this. Sure, Jack needs to die, and he's going to. There's no way he's going to survive to the end with what he's done, but what do we gain from doing it now? If we let dram and scot execute the easiest target, we learn nothing about them. But when that easy target is taken away from them and they have to make a real decision, we get information. There's a player that I think is actually scummier than Jack, but at the moment I don't have time to make the full case. So for now, I just want to see what's going to happen.