Open 268: Raise the White Flag (Game Over)

[Lindisfarne]

Not giving Striker a free pass. He's in my top 3 suspects list afterall. Bvoigt and stiker have small townie signs, although I think the scum-ness outmasks it (Striker in his comment that makes no sense for scum to say and bvoigt for not pursuing what could have been an easy town lynch in shotty) where as chk has NO townie tells. To sort the record, I find all three scummy. He is just the scummiest.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.05

chkflip (1) - Lindisfarne
Lindisfarne (1) - silverbullet999
silverbullet999 (1) - andrew94
SnakePlissken (1) - bvoigt
Stefunny (1) - Chaotic Neutrality

Not Voting (4) - chkflip, rekirtS, SnakePlissken, Stefunny

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, January 2, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

Notes

andrew94 is V/LA December 25-29
silverbullet999 has limited access until week of December 26 (approx)

[SnakePlissken]

Mod I will be

V/LA 24th Dec - 28th Dec

So I will not be voting until my return when I will voting with case then.

Noted.

[Chaotic Neutrality]

You voted for yabbaguy in ISO #2, so why did you switch to Werewolf after one of your main suspects pointed out why he was scummy?

It wasn't really a strong vote to begin with, and had I understood my own ISO 3, I would have simply voted Werewolf.

Cookie -neutral
andrew - VI
neither are super super strong...

Is there anyone you

do

have strong feelings about?

@chaotic, 2nd scumpick? rofl- im still confused about my 1st scumpick

Then read the game over and take a position.

Both Cookie and Shotty have good questions to answer from Chaotic Neutral. As Shotty is the person who I think is most suspisious right now, I'm tempted to vote him, but that'd leave him at L-1 and I dont think thats a good idea...

Funny, since CN asked YOU a question to. And you chose not to answer.

I'm going to have to find where this happened, but I'm not about to let that go.

I'm going to construct a proper response to Lindisfarne's posts, but I wanted to get the small stuff out of the way.

[rekirtS]

First things first, why do you have that freaking quote as your signature lindisfarne? >__>

Apologies Stefunny.

Funny, since CN asked YOU a question to. And you chose not to answer.

-In post 173, he finds Bvoigt and CN town. He finds Chk "Scary" yet doesn't give a real alignment indicator behind it.

I think I answered everybody’s questions. If there’s a question a I missed feel free to ask it again or whatever. Pretty sure I did.
Sorry, should have clarified. Scary = scummy, as I even went on to say CHK was my second scum read when asked by CN. Biggest scum read now after reading what you said.

While your post seem very townie I’m still suspicious of shotty... So you and CHK 'flipped' places (I can be punny too)

Then why do you think he's town then?

Because I don’t think he’s scum? And the reasons he makes me paranoid aren’t too scummy.

@restirts, i will day kill shotty becos hes absolutely annoying, my vote is on silver becos i want everyone to vote for him as he is sus (obs if i was at l1 and i had the day kill i would vig him etc)

You would daykill someone and put us with 0 mislynches because hes annoying? Not because you think hes scum or not? First trying to policy lynch at the beginning of the game and now you would just randomly take a shot as dayvig? Why are you trying to waste our days?

[bvoigt]

Then why do you think he's town then?

Because I don’t think he’s scum? And the reasons he makes me paranoid aren’t too scummy.

Er...you're missing the point of the question. Has he done anything to make you feel he's town?

[rekirtS]

Hes had a strong opinon. Which to me comes off alot more town then scum. I guess theres no true town reads on him but theres bigger scumreads out there. Which is why I was more skeptical about him.

[bvoigt]

He's had a strong opinion, but don't you think some of those strong opinions have been contradictory?

[andrew94]

firstly, who has a strong opinion,
secondly, if your talking about lindis, then hes points are ffreaking contradictory.

[rekirtS]

You refering to CN's point? Actually thats a very good point, may have slipped my mind when reading his posts and making my list because it wasn't him who said it, he never answered the question.

Andrew just read what we're talking about... Cookie.

How does Lindis contradict?

And why are would you attempt to waste our days through a random dayshot and policy lynch? Both very anti-town moves.

[rekirtS]

Nvm andrew I guess it isnt very clear who we're talking about sorry.

[andrew94]

i dont have a day-shot... and if i did i would shoot shotty even if hes innocent child because it improves our efficency 100%. + it doesnt end the day.

what policy lynch???

[bvoigt]

@rekirtS: So, do you still think he's town?

[rekirtS]

i dont have a day-shot... and if i did i would shoot shotty even if hes innocent child because it improves our efficency 100%. + it doesnt end the day.

what policy lynch???

One page one/two you wanted a policy lynch on shotty.

@rekirtS: So, do you still think he's town?

I wanna hear what his replacement says first, then I'll decide.

[Stefunny]

Statistically, getting replaced has nothing to do with alignment. Whether you thought he was scum or town, his leave shouldn't change your opinion on him. Any argument made from that is WIFOM at best.

This is fairly true. There are situations it could be a tell (If someone only replaces when they are scum, or only when they are town; and do it fairly often) that type of meta could be useful, but even then it is not good evidence either way. I generally try to take replacing out as Alignment Neutral.

Normally I wouldn't think somebody quitting would be evidence either way either, however I feel like with Shotty this may be true. Especially since he noted time limitations as being his reason for backing out but at about the same time he signed up for two new games. I simply feel he lost interest.

@andrew: who do you think, besides shotty/lindis, is the best lynch candidate right now? Why is your vote on silver and not shotty/lindis if you feel so strongly about him?

@restirts, i will day kill shotty becos hes absolutely annoying,

my vote is on silver becos i want everyone to vote for him as he is sus

(obs if i was at l1 and i had the day kill i would vig him etc)

How is he "sus"? I have not seen any evidence/argument of this in your posts.

firstly, who has a strong opinion,
secondly, if your talking about lindis, then hes points are ffreaking contradictory.

Can you explain why you think Lindis is contradictory?

idont have a day-shot... and if i did i would shoot shotty even if hes innocent child because it improves our efficency 100%. + it doesnt end the day.

It doesn't end day but it does give the scum one up on us. I don't understand this logic either.

I would also like to see chkflip explain who he thinks is scum and I'd like to hear from COD's replacement before I make any sort of a vote. andrew and chk are at the top of my scumlist but CoD reads slightly scummy to me as well.

[andrew94]

discussion?
i sense someone attempting to gain town credit.

vote silver

its around this post where sb is deemed worthy of my vote.

Statistically, getting replaced has nothing to do with alignment. Whether you thought he was scum or town, his leave shouldn't change your opinion on him. Any argument made from that is WIFOM at best.

This is fairly true. There are situations it could be a tell (If someone only replaces when they are scum, or only when they are town; and do it fairly often) that type of meta could be useful, but even then it is not good evidence either way. I generally try to take replacing out as Alignment Neutral.

Normally I wouldn't think somebody quitting would be evidence either way either, however I feel like with Shotty this may be true. Especially since he noted time limitations as being his reason for backing out but at about the same time he signed up for two new games. I simply feel he lost interest.

or it could be a batt gambit in one of my finished mini love games, where he replaced out claiming that i was too 'rude' and he was scum

@andrew: who do you think, besides shotty/lindis, is the best lynch candidate right now? Why is your vote on silver and not shotty/lindis if you feel so strongly about him?

look above

@restirts, i will day kill shotty becos hes absolutely annoying,

my vote is on silver becos i want everyone to vote for him as he is sus

(obs if i was at l1 and i had the day kill i would vig him etc)

How is he "sus"? I have not seen any evidence/argument of this in your posts.

firstly, who has a strong opinion,
secondly, if your talking about lindis, then hes points are ffreaking contradictory.

Can you explain why you think Lindis is contradictory?

because ,reading his posts, i inferred that bvoight is more sus then chkflip, yet he goes after chkflip

idont have a day-shot... and if i did i would shoot shotty even if hes innocent child because it improves our efficency 100%. + it doesnt end the day.

It doesn't end day but it does give the scum one up on us. I don't understand this logic either.

it was a joke of how crap shotty is...

I would also like to see chkflip explain who he thinks is scum and I'd like to hear from COD's replacement before I make any sort
of a vote. andrew and chk are at the top of my scumlist but CoD reads slightly scummy to me as well.

lol why?

bolded bits are mine ,sorry if it looks confusing, but i cbb copy pasting bits of quotes

[andrew94]

i dont have a day-shot... and if i did i would shoot shotty even if hes innocent child because it improves our efficency 100%. + it doesnt end the day.

what policy lynch???

One page one/two you wanted a policy lynch on shotty.

1) i also vote shotty first in the majority of my games
2) it was a semi serious attempt to lynch him whilst making some discussion

[chkflip]

Also, him being scum would actually make some sense out of Yabba's death. He admitted Yabba was clever, and andrew pointed out the appealing to ICs (Normally seen in Newbie games, IC townies normally dont last long against newb scum, who fear their logic and normally NK them relatively quick). This is the only scenario I can see in which Yabba's death BENEFITTED scum (remember, scum try to make the action that will most benefit them), since chk admitted yabba's cleverness, and he did seem quick to switch his point when pressured by yabba.

- You do realize that that's what they want you to think, right? Kill the guy that can be directly attributed to someone that isn't scum. NK 101, guy. Seriously. I'll respond further after the holidays, I'm quite busy at the moment.

[andrew94]

Wifom^^^

[chkflip]

And what would the non-wifom response be, exactly?

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Normally I wouldn't think somebody quitting would be evidence either way either, however I feel like with Shotty this may be true. Especially since he noted time limitations as being his reason for backing out but at about the same time he signed up for two new games. I simply feel he lost interest.

Maybe he's scum and he

knew

we would take it that way, and that's why he stated his reasons.
Or maybe he's town and

knew

we'd know he knew, and that's why he left it alone.
Or maybe he's scum and

knew

we'd know he knew we'd know he knew...
Etc.

OR MAYBE he decided it was time to jump off this sinking ship before he was lynched, which is something he'd probably do regardless of alignment. Point being, this shouldn't earn him any town points, or any scum points, since the probability he replaced as either is relatively the same. What should matter is the way his replacement, Lindisfarne, has filled his slot. Up to this point, Lind has made by far the most contribution to this game, so he passes (with an IGMEOY, of course).

Speaking of Lind, I should have a response to him in ~30 minutes.

[silverbullet999]

Reskirts, for the love of mafiascum, get a damn avatar now.

-CN

Is there anyone you do have strong feelings about?

Please look at vote, though I guess that's slightly fading... momentarily... and chkflip is slightly moving up
What has you so concerned with me?

-Andrew
Your post 215... has no quotes from me... and seemingly does not show the points where i'm deemed worthy of the vote...
I'd almost be surprised and question it... but since it's you... it's more than typical *rolls eyes*

-Snake
[joke] So are you tracker again this game? Cause I'm ready to get you lynched again scum : P [/joke]

[silverbullet999]

-Andrew
Actually upon looking more, you seem to vote me for trying to start discussion.. from a post that bvoigt made regarding starting discussion... thus as you always do... VI OR SI either or you are an idiot...

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Sorry, I lied. My ADD/OCD couldn't be contained for a solid 30 minutes

Killing off Yabba narrowed that list down, and seemed like a tactically noobish move from the scum.

Could that potentially indicate more scum off the lynch than on, or would I be off base by making such an assertion?

I agree with Cookie about andrew. if werewolf flips scum we pressure andrew and imo silverbullet tomorrow.

This is jumping the gun, first of all. Second...scum would know wolf was town, so this would be a moot point. This actually earns a small Townie Point, since this would be utterly pointless to say if Striker was scum (knowing wolf would flip town).

I might agree with you since he's a newer player, but I still don't trust this as a town point of his. He could have just as easily be setting himself up to look like town.

In post 173, he finds Bvoigt and CN town. He finds Chk "Scary" yet doesn't give a real alignment indicator behind it.

You mean in post 173, he sat on the fence and refused to take clear sides.

have you heard of the term sucking up to the ic person who seems pro(YES YABBA i read some of ur newbie games)
here lies oppourtunism ---> first doing the 'oh shit i dont understand' attitude then 'o yea i understand votes*' attitude so it doesnt look like blatant bandwagoning

This was said in regard to chk's response to Yabba. This is what makes the "your so clever" look interesting. Glad you caught this Andrew.

He didn't just state confusion, he argued against it and defended wolf.

Chk is my primary suspect here. He flat out said he doesn't see wolf's alleged breadcrumb as scummy, but when pressured by the experienced dude throwing around some silly logic, he instantly changes. Also, him being scum would actually make some sense out of Yabba's death. He admitted Yabba was clever, and andrew pointed out the appealing to ICs (Normally seen in Newbie games, IC townies normally dont last long against newb scum, who fear their logic and normally NK them relatively quick). This is the only scenario I can see in which Yabba's death BENEFITTED scum (remember, scum try to make the action that will most benefit them), since chk admitted yabba's cleverness, and he did seem quick to switch his point when pressured by yabba. Also, his vote on Shotty was...shoddy (heheh). Voting someone because they are inactive is stupid logic.

For once I agree with near everything you said here. I'm not sure if I've actually stated my opinion of everyone yet, but he's my second, maybe first scum pick next to CoD (now Snake

Pilsner

Plissken). My suspicion of Shotty has drastically lowered following his replacement, because of his replacement.

[Equinox]

Bump for vote count.