Newbie 1045: Christmas in Newbieville! (Mafia Win!)

[Fungrus]

mmm, no.

Voting for people is the only way to gather useful information to figure out who the mafia are. Think of it like this, there's no way to differentiate between a townie voting no lynch and a mafia voting no lynch. However if we vote to kill a player, a townie may have no reason to defend that player whereas a mafia will try and stop their buddies getting killed. From this and many other giveaways you can figure out who the mafia are.

Since this may be your first game I guess it might seem like a good idea to no lynch therefore I'll not vote for you even though voting for no lynch is inherently a pro mafia move.

[Fungrus]

Also, I live in the UK, so a different timezone to everyone. I'll try to get on as much as possible.

Hey me too.

Therefore the only sensible course of action:

Vote: MrBum(p)

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!

[Fungrus]

Also, i am from UK

you're next

[Fungrus]

@Glass - it's not that he didn't vote him, it's that he called his actions scummy and didn't vote for him. If you have no reads on anyone and then someone does something scummy what reason is there to not vote them? I submit that there really isn't one (especially in this game setup and at this stage of the game). Also, what do you see as the Mr. Bump/fungrus connection that suggests they are scumbuddies?

The reason is I'm a human being and not a cold hard robot made from irrefutable logic, i.e. it seemed like such an obvious scumtell that it had to come from someone with very little experience. Casting my mind back to when I first started playing I think that if I was town I would suggest something like that, and if I was mafia I would keep my head down at all costs, especially not make the first post. That is why even though I found his actions to be inherently scummy, they led me to believe that he was not scum.

Why I didn't vote anyone; I like to use my random vote to respond to another player's post, as this amuses me more than voting off of name or something. I would say that it is my “meta” but since this is my first game here, there's no way to confirm that is there.

unvote

Vote: Mr. Flay

because him being “tempted” to vote someone and then not actually voting anyone to pressurise them, now that we've moved on to a bit more of a serious stage, seems like he's waiting for a bandwagon to form that he can hop on without sticking his neck out to help form it.

[Fungrus]

Hi, sorry I didn't post V/LA, I thought I would have more time the last few days. Anyway though I haven't had time to fine comb the thread I'm only really getting a scum read off of Mr Bump. Who is currently at L-2 by my account therefore I'll

unvote

Vote mr bump

Sorry if this isn't really doing much scum hunting but right now it seems to me that ender is town. Thor and glass are town because they're making such a racket. The others seem to be making none stupid posts but as I said I've not looked at every post yet.

[Fungrus]

Hi, first off I should be back to posting at a regular rate now as the holidays are over.

Second it seems there are a vast amount of questions that have been aimed at me over the last few pages, but I really can't be bothered to go through the whole thread and see if each question is still relevant. Therefore if you have something you want me to answer could you please post it again so I can make myself clear.

Okay here's my thoughts on some recent posts:
post 179 could you clarify who you're answering there?

post 181 I mostly agree with what is said in here though I have a few rebuttals:

My bandwagony behaviour in voting Mr Bump was in part to keep the pressure on him which I felt had evaporated away too quickly and also because I wasn't reading the thread very closely and arguments for Bump being scum were to me the most visible things in the thread. Therefore at the time I thought Bump was likely scum and wanted to see if he (or his scum buddy) would react under the pressure of being L-1. Since then his posts haver persuaded me that he is not scum.

I don't agree that Bump has been acting cool under pressure, I think many of his posts are quite frustrated in their style. This is a towntell to me as I think scum would rather play it cool as you said and have their buddy save them. So it appears to me that Bump is town.

post 183 Personally I'm finding it very hard to differentiate between A) Thor fulfilling the role of the IC by stimulating discussion B) Thor playing the game in his self confessed usual style of getting all up in people's grill and attacking them emotionally, which he would do regardless of alignment and being IC and C) Thor posting scummy things.

While you're claiming this post is C, it reads as more A to me. To give some context most of his interaction with Glass I read as B.

post 184 Starting off with more OTT styled stuff. I agree that you could be posting in this style to throw people off however it's more likely that you're actually just easily riled, probably town.

I disagree that defending yourself especially with no votes on you is inherently scummy. In fact without the pressure of a vote, scum is more likely to just let the attack slide away and hope no one picks up on it.

post 185 Don't like the way you say "I could be convinced". You should be convincing others and not trying to get other people to put their neck on the line by starting a wagon.

@ Lateralus could you reiterate for my benefit why you think I'm scum please?

Ender's post: just who do you think is scum then?

Currently Korts is topping my list of scum as the last few votes he seems to go on the offensive against lots of people sometimes semi-valid arguments and sometimes with faulty logic. Seems like he's cast his bobber and seeing if he can get a bite from anyone.

[Fungrus]

Ah damn, forgot to add

Vote: Korts

in there sorry.

[Fungrus]

Firstly can I just say that I appreciate both Lateralus and Dramonic have replaced into this game and may not want to be playing here, and that it seems that it's completely beneath you two to play a newbie game, but could you please stop just making blanket statements like "XXX is town" with no reasoning. I'm not seeing it as particularly scummy, rather just disrespectful like it's not worth your time to share your ideas with the class.

Currently my #1 suspect is Korts for this reasoning posted earlier:

Currently Korts is topping my list of scum as the last few votes he seems to go on the offensive against lots of people sometimes semi-valid arguments and sometimes with faulty logic. Seems like he's cast his bobber and seeing if he can get a bite from anyone.

as to #2, well the only two people Korts hasn't gone after are myself and Glass, and my strongest town read right now is on Glass. So with lack of a better scumbuddy I'm going to have to say Nahper is my #2 like so many other people have. Since Korts hasn't actually accused him, just told him to post more, maybe trying to himself earn some cheap pro town points?

When Napher posts, if he reads as townie then I suppose that kinda ruins my Korts theory but until then I'm going to stick to my guns.

[Fungrus]

I really wish you hadn't done that Glass. Now you see I'm just getting home after a long busy weekend with no possibility to post. So now it appears that I am only posting because you are pressurising me, which unfortunately is not the case.

I think that I adequately defended myself with regards to my first post here.

On the topic of the post where I wagoned on Bump, I agreed with the arguments against Bump at the time and so I voted for him. It didn't seem like anyone was going to quick hammer him so I think I was justified in keeping the pressure on Bump which was on the fall.

If these rebuttals don't fly with you (the masses who have a scum read on me) well alright, but I just want it on the record that I have defended myself on these points.

Anyway I agree that it's not doing much good voting for Korts while we wait around for a replacement. My #2 suspect has become Ender. I think there is actually a good possibility that his slip (7 players to vote for not 8) was real. But more important is his almost entirely illogical vote flopping, see here here here aaaaaand here

So yeah,
VOTE: Vote: Ender

[Fungrus]

Well there's a pretty easy way to check that claim I guess,

unvote

Ender I think you need to get less emotionally attached to the game. You should not really be blaming us for voting for you when your actions were so illogical.

We are not lynching the Doc,

Unvote

Fungrus spends way to much time caring about his own appearence and defending himself.

So I should just ignore all suspicions against myself?

Well with no other really significant leads I'll

VOTE: Korts

as I already said why I think he seemed scummy. Plus this way it increases activity, which is something scum would like to avoid.

[Fungrus]

Yeah Thor, you could say I have been wagoning. However from my point of view I have been A) swayed by other people's arguments incriminating players (this is a game of persuasion after all) and then taken action with my vote. Whereas you have not used your vote at all to pressurise other players excluding myself, seems to me you're lurking even worse than you accuse me of, only you're doing it by making substanceless posts.

And no before you say it, I don't find everyone who attacks me scummy, Lateralus and Glass I have a town read on even though they are/were voting me.

[Fungrus]

Wait wait wait wait wait

You voted Fungrus to prevent Ender from claiming???
What the hell kind of logic is that?

...
Thor, your puppet is not making sense, I have to take it away from you, even if it means letting you off for now.

unvote
vote: Glass

Am I clear in understanding that you think Thor and Glass are scum buddies, but you're voting for Glass? I think that Thor has been the more suspicious player throughout the game and people are more likely to wagon on him. So why change your momentum from Thor to Glass? Yes I do think that Glass's clever plan was not really so much as a plan as a way to justify previous actions, but if Glass and Thor are both scum, I think lynching Thor first is the better option.


Currently I stand by my reasoning earlier on why Korts (or his replacement) is scum. Which I think no one has commented on (maybe it's too stupid to illicit comment...). But if no one will believe me I will change my vote to try and get a lynch on someone I find suspect, even if I'm labelled bandwagoner. I think we need to lynch.

[Fungrus]

Okay, I'm back being down for a Cirno lynch again.

Everyone who is the lone person on their wagon (Darla, Bump, dramonic, Glass) you better start either screaming bloody murder about what a great wagon that is, or find another wagon you consider tenable.

@Lateralus - you alive? New comments pl0x.
@Darla - you alive? New comments pl0x.
@Fungrus - I actually am sold on the Korts slot being scummy, but its flaked out so bad everything I consider it scummy for is hard to take seriously at this stage. What's your case on the Korts slot?

DarlaBlueEyes has done pretty much nothing since taking over the reigns, now maybe they haven't had time, maybe not. The real evidence comes back from when Korts was posting quite a bit and putting out low level suspicion on pretty much every player to see if someone else would run with it and do the dangerous job of being the leader of a bandwagon. Yeah normally I would expect people to have a few suspicions, but he seemed to have something against everyone except Glass and myself.

[Fungrus]

We should be voting Ender. "But Bump, he's a claimed Doc!" I don't bloody care, to be honest. Ender has repeatedly played scummy all game, changed votes every post practically, made false accusations, made a bad (IMO) slip and now claimed the Doctor. So after all the evidence against him, just because he made an already fishy claim (L-1 with no hammer intent), we're going to just leave him there. He's trying to draw the real Doc out and he's not doing a very good job of it. We should be voting him.

You honestly think Ender is capable of such a ploy? If Ender were scum I am pretty sure he would have claimed vanilla townie. The only way I can see it otherwise is if his scumbuddy told him to say that, but I don't think mafia have daytalk in this game. Basically given the rest of his play, I find it implausible that Ender could come up with a plan to draw out power roles.

I realise you're kinda desperate not to get lynched but this attack just doesn't cut it with me. What is your take on Korts/Darla?

@Lateralus by saying "I really hate Korts' play" did you mean that you dislike the playstyle but don't consider him scum, or that you think he could be scum?

[Fungrus]

Aright, either Bump or Ender is scum and it seems like it's Ender.

VOTE: Ender

Still can hardly believe he actually claimed doctor as scum, you have guts I'll give you that.

[Fungrus]

I don't have much more to add, I think Lateralus summed up the case on Darla pretty well. I find the "keeping the Korts vote where it is" on Thor thing really scummy. Darla essentially can't make a case on anyone else so she's leaving it there just because it seemed like there was a glimmer of hope in the Thor wagon. I also find it odd that she has a relatively townie read on me, when most of the people, especially people who have been playing very townie in my eyes, have found me suspicious. Now I'm not trying to say I should be in line for a lynch here, but she has certainly drawn different conclusions to the really townie people. Alone this wouldn't be much to shout about but I think it adds another element to the case against her.

I would also like to point out that I feel my accusations against Korts from day one are still relevant, in case anyone needed more explanation.

So yeah, Bump is definitely mafia, and I think Darla is as well, but I will hold out on the Bump vote until people decide they don't need much more further discussion.

[Fungrus]

@ Darla, I think I've made my opinions clear, but just in case:

Bump is obvscum

Darla seems the scummiest player to me, I think I'm not good enough at reading people to call you "obvscum" but yeah that's how it seems to me.

Lateralus seems very townie from the way he's been posted.

I got a very townie read on Glass near the beginning of the game, and it's kinda stuck. It was starting to slip a bit, but the amount he's gone after Bump just spells out town to me.

Cirno, reads like a townie who doesn't like to let other people like Lateralus take the lead.

aaaaand Dramonic, I don't think he's obvtown really. Could be just because I can't remember many of his posts, which I guess is the same reason people seem to be suspicious of me. But I never had the strong town read on him that Lateralus seemingly (to me) got out of nowhere when Dramonic entered the game on day 1. I think I'd have to put it down as a null read.

If Darla turned out to not be scum, I think Cirno would be my next suspect. As she said already that they would bus their team mate on day1 which is what she tried with bump, added to trying to get extra credibility today by trying to argue in favour of someone she knows will turn up town (Darla).

But all that would only be true if Darla turned out to be town, which as I said, I doubt.

[Fungrus]

Cirno/Fungrus/Glass/I are all on apparently, anything else you guys wanna say so we can sort this out fast?

Fungrus you're starring at this section like a mad man, do you have anything to say?

Haha, it takes me a while to post I guess, don't like to rush my decisions if I can help it.

[Fungrus]

can you expand on why you think Cirno and I are town, like say link to any particular posts/explain why you like them?

Well the posts from the previous page where you kept demanding people answer you questions was townie. At least I know that is how I generally play as town and not as scum, maybe I shouldn't take that as how you play, but we have to start somewhere.

Like I said already, I agreed with your analysis of Darla, but then I guess you don't have to be townie to make a good case.

Other than that I have to go back quite a way, but I guess it's often the style of your posts that gives me the town read, very direct, perhaps aggressive.

With Cirno, I think some of her questions have been good, like why is dramonic obvtown. But actually I guess I have a townie read as something left over from day1. Now that I've started thinking Cirno could be scum as in my previous post I'm not so sure in my town read any more. However I think many of the suspicions I have against are all kinda of wifomy, as I think Darla has done more straightforward scummy things. So I would go for the lynch on Darla instead of Cirno.

[Fungrus]

All of that I meant, of course, after we lynch Bump. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also I have to go soon, but I will check again in a few hours. Sorry for the second double post.

[Fungrus]

Yeah I'm going to VOTE: Bump seems like the day is stalling now.

[Fungrus]

Well hey, I think the mafia is probably Lat. Going off of mostly day1 stuff, yeah he votes for Bump early on, but then pulls his vote off when the wagon is looking like it could lynch. I think the phrase "just in case, nobody actually hammer" smells of concern for Bump's life and not really for lynching quickly. I'll go back and look over more things, but if I'm honest with myself it'll probably be me trying to confirm my position rather than going into it with an open mind. So yeah, there we go.

[Fungrus]

Sorry for the double post, but is this game dead?

[Fungrus]

Okay so the way I see it, Dramonic has been massive lurking. But Lat thought that he was town, so it makes sense that he would keep Lat alive.

On the other hand, Lat has been leading the town on every lynch since day 2. Equally he knew that I agreed with him so maybe he thought I would side with him in a LyLo situation.

What I'm struggling to figure out is why Dramoic would have left me alive instead of Glass. Maybe he just thought I was a less competent player, but then why kill Glass instead of Lat?

Or why Lat would keep Dramonic alive. Basically I don't know why glass died last night when it seems like both of you are more experienced players than Glass (no offence intended) and so I would have thought you would eliminate the "main" obstacle in leading the remaining players down the wrong road.

But yeah I really need Dram to post more.

[Fungrus]

Well here is a post just to prove I'm not scum. Would still like to see something from Dram before I vote.

[Fungrus]

Eh so I want to vote Dramonic cause then Lat wins either way since it's his last game. But I just feel that Lat is scum, so yeah here goes:

VOTE: Lateralus

[Fungrus]

Well I thought that you kinda planned to manipulate me from day one. You saw that I had something on Korts so you built a case against Darla so that we agreed and you knew that I would probably agree with you. That leads us through bump lynch, to darla lynch and then we're at the last day. I just thought, you kept me alive because you thought I would easily side with you in lylo because our arguments coincided on day two and three. It all seemed so clear at the time...