Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[boberz]

Compromise lynches are the best ones on day1. And always invariably happen in nonnewbie games at this point day1 with 2 competing wagons. I am trying to create a wagon to compete, prefferably werewolf.

My werewolf case is all over the thread I have spent pages attacking him, do a reread.

I think we should lynch before deadline and I am making sure we can set this up, we still dont have 7 theoretically convincable to any one wagon.

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By 'a random' I was talking about someone not of the top three suspects. Your useless on AntB (or indeed me) it just aint gonna happen, you are just wasting our and your time.

[Beefster]

I did a quick and dirty ISO. I saw no case on werewolf. A saw a couple of posts about him, yet strangely you weren't voting him at that time. (You were telling people to vote him) Weird.

AntB "perform a scumhunt". Scumpoints. Major ones.

Uh huh. You think he's scummy, but you haven't really talked about him since then.

What is your opinion on AntB?

...

You're right. The AntB wagon isn't happening...

unvote

VOTE: boberz
Yours is.

Sorry for the ambivalence. I think they're both scum, and I couldn't decide which one to get rid of first.

[boberz]

Beefster, werewolf = hiraki = scum, that is my case in its entirity.

[Beefster]

Any reasons?

[Beefster]

@boberz: why did you suddenly shift your vote from hiraki to moose in the beginning of the day?
I also noticed that you attack players for playing badly more than for being scummy. Seems like a nice way to fake scumhunting.

And don't be pulling a Ythan here. Your case is spread out so much and completely unclear that I think you need to summarize your case. It seems to me like you're trying to avoid the embarrassment of having a fail case.

[boberz]

Beefster, my case on Hiraki has been extensive, and it has not been a fail case. If you are too lazy to read my posts then that is your bad.


Hirkai:
Dodgy dodgy opening vote.
Misrep of me, (over meta for example)
Dragging the game into theory even after being called out on it

and now

Moose would need to call it a mislynch if he knew he was town, no?

Also, just found this. I think it is as near to a slip as we have had.

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For the record I am deliberately avoiding your accusations I dont bloody care if you think I am scum.

[AntB]

Show me where I actually state in plain english that I buy the Moose Vig Claim. I say that using moose to secure a double lynch is a good idea and if he is as he claims he would be fine, if not he would be quickly outed. I don't want him hanging around by LyLo because so far, he has been of little if any use to town so I believe he would help the mafia win in a LyLo situation.

You can't expect a double lynch unless you believe his claim. You can't doubt the claim and believe it at the same time. You're trying to please everyone, but blatantly contradicting yourself in the process. Major scum points.

You never said you believed him in plain English,

but you implied it by other things you said.

I don't need to prove your actions to make my point. Nice panic defense.

In response to my arguments, you turn your vote back on me. OMGUS isn't usually a scumtell, but in this case, I think it is; You seem to be using it as a panic defense.

And the fact that you totally avoided the topic of werewolf really throws up some red flags. Perhaps a werewolf lynch wouldn't be that bad...

unvote

VOTE: AntB
until tonight... Just in case this gains momentum.

I think I've caught scum.

What? Have you actually read what I've put? Let me put it in as low a level as I can...

Vig hits PlayerX, scum hits PlayerY. Moose is proven vigilante and town gets a free lynch. He lives for a bit longer and hopefully recovers himself to be of some use to town.
Scum hits PlayerX, vig fails. We can either use this to an advantage and repeat until obviscum or we assume moose is as full of BS as he has been and lynch him.
Scum hits PlayerY, Vig hits PlayerZ - we kill moose.

Make sense? It was a Trial by Fire if you like. As for panic defence, is that also what you call "OMG I'm being wagoned, I know, I'll attack that guy as he seems more liable to be lynched then me and my scum-buddies?" yea... Also, Implied is nothing. Unless it is actually stated in some form, saying i've implied something is as useless as post FoS All Scum really. You can't base a case on anything implied, you can ask for clarification... but that's it

Wolf has failed to answer one of my questions on at least 2 occasions, but hasn't attacked me in a distraction attempt due to pressure. I will be pushing for your scumbuddies lynch tomorrow.

[Beefster]

So you think there's a vig, but it's not moose? This is an open game. How can you be so sure that he isn't?

Would you mind actually hunting scum instead of picking targets?
Also state your case on me.

@boberz: NONE of the points you have on Hiraki are scumtells IMO. Attacking over a RANDOM VOTE and talking about theory? Your case is invalid.

[boberz]

AntB you have clearly ignored my posts explaining why it wouldnt work. Either read them or just believe me. As I said if this were the right thing to do it would happen in every game.

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Beefy there is no such thing as a scumtell in the way you mean it.

Voting randomly when you have two suspects is scummy.
Dragging game into theory is scummy when done deliberately (part of the reason I got lynched in our game together if you remember)
Misrepping is a greyarea scummywise, I am happy for you to not accept it. Obviously it is antitown though.

Yday you promised to vote him today if I remember correctly, will you?

[Beefster]

Voting randomly when you have two suspects is scummy.

Not at the beginning of the day it isn't.

Dragging game into theory is scummy when done deliberately (part of the reason I got lynched in our game together if you remember)

How so?

Misrepping is a greyarea scummywise, I am happy for you to not accept it. Obviously it is antitown though.

Agreed.

Yday you promised to vote him today if I remember correctly, will you?

I'm a man of my word. As much as I'd rather go with something else, I will vote him before I go to bed, just in case your wagon goes somewhere by then.

[boberz]

Not at the beginning of the day it isn't.

No it is. It really reallyy is. If people have suspicions but are unwilling to vote or nail their most scummy down. Create wagons etc etc early game it really is scummy. It just is, there are no arguments there at all.

[Beefster]

Because it was a half-joking random vote.

[boberz]

Beefster, take a step back. If I turned round now and randomly voted for myself. You would think it scummy I hope. If I put the phrase 'lol' afterwards it does not excuse it. Same for this. It is not excusable, he had two suspicions and apparently some town reads (which I still think was bollocks he made up when tested).

That merely begun the wagon that I believe made hiraki fall apart, I cannot find anything specifically but I believe the whole back and forth between he and I was not townies bickering.

[Beefster]

Beefster, take a step back. If I turned round now and randomly voted for myself. You would think it scummy I hope. If I put the phrase 'lol' afterwards it does not excuse it. Same for this. It is not excusable, he had two suspicions and apparently some town reads (which I still think was bollocks he made up when tested).

If you did that right now, I'd be confused, yes. But the Hiraki situation was different. It was his first (or was it second?) post. It was early in the game. The meaning of a vote approaches 0 as you approach the beginning of the day.

That merely begun the wagon that I believe made hiraki fall apart, I cannot find anything specifically but I believe the whole back and forth between he and I was not townies bickering.

Why? (and also, it could be that you're scum and he's town. You can't really tell for sure.)

[pappums rat]

after reading the thread thus far, my main question seems to be

'how in the everloving blast is moose still alive???'

there was his absurd comment about trying to play less scummy, his raging against other players and rampant profanity, his ultra anti-town self vote, his pseudo-roleclaim, telling boberz that he will die tonight, then saying the reason he will die tonight is because he himself was going to kill boberz, and then he tells the town to go 'fuck themselves' and that he would not listen to them if they voted on his vig-kill. and to top it all off, in #331 he says he is going to kill boberz because he 'fucking hates him'. this is p much the epitome of anti-town ridiculosity, and i honestly cannot believe he has not been modkilled for everything he has done in this game. at this point replacing him would not work since he has already roleclaimed, but please

ftlog mod plz smite the hell out of moose.

he is anti-town, a tumbling tumbling dickweed, and most certainly on my blacklist if i ever start modding. that said,

unvote vote moose200x

jfc.

if moose gets modkilled or a lynch doesn't happen with him, then i would support a werewolf or beefster lynch since they both have seemed fairly scummy to me and seem like the most viable lynches atm.

[moose200x]

So, rat, are you lynching me because I am scum or because I am anti-town? Seems like voting a townie just cuz you think he is anti-town is anti-town.

[Beefster]

@rat: I really don't like your post. We'll discuss more later.

*sigh*

The boberz wagon isn't going anywhere, it seems.

I will stick to my word and...

unvote

VOTE: werewolf

[AntB]

@boberz
Note the usage of past tense in my post. I read what you said and pretty much agreed.

@Beefster
wow... I'm not even going to waste any more energy responding to you beyond this post.

IF moose is a vig

...
Stop skimming, start reading scum, it might help you.
My case on you is your outright refusal to skim posts and autopilot on what jumps out at you, and also attempting to divert attention from yourself with poorly constructed cases.

@all
Scumteam is Beefster, Werewolf and possibly Moose. If I get NK'd, you know who to kill.

I'm out until D2 starts...

[pappums rat]

if my count is correct, beefster and werewolf555 now each have 5 votes on them. while i would not mind lynching either of them, i think a moose lynch would be best for the town. he has threatened to kill boberz against the town's will because he thinks he is scummy (without building a case for him) and because he 'fucking hates him'. that is not reason enough to kill someone imo. what this boils down to is a petty grudge that has developed over the course of this game because boberz called out moose for his stupidity. this kind of garbage is unacceptable and should not be allowed to happen. while moose doesnt reek of scum at this point, he has been extremely anti-town and immature, and there is no reason to allow his continued presence in this game. boberz may or may not be town, but i have not gotten any scumvibes from him yet, and in fact he has done a fair amount of scum hunting, so at this point i dont think allowing moose to vig-kill him is in the best interests of the town.

[brokenscraps]

@mod: I will be on V/LA for around the next 2 to 3 days

while moose doesnt reek of scum at this point

If you don't think moose is scum, wouldn't you prefer to lynch somebody else? Even if moose kills boberz and boberz turns out to be town, I'd still rather have one dead scum tomorrow than no dead scum.

[pappums rat]

imo boberz has been one of the most pro-town players so far and i think his loss would be bad for the town. im hoping moose will get modkilled so that the lynch could be for someone who seems solidly scum, but i doubt this will happen.

[boberz]

I dont agree with mosse modkill. And mod has made it perfvectly clear he will not. I still think if he deliberately acts against wincon it should be modkill (or replace, depending on situation) but I do not believe he has yet.

Let's kill werewolf. Deadline is fairly soon now.

[pappums rat]

boberz, why do you support a werewolf lynch over a beefster lynch, and what made you change your mind on lynching moose?

[moose200x]

I still think if he deliberately acts against wincon it should be modkill

You admit shooting a townie out of spite is against my wincon. That'd only be my wincon if I am town.

[pappums rat]

lol moose you really should think before you post. you are really not helping yourself here.