Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[diddin]

Votecount

ortiz1193 (3) Cyberbob, TheLonging, el simo
el simo (3) ortiz1193, Umbrage, ThAdmiral
ThAdmiral (0)
Furcolow (0)
Umbrage (0)
chamber (0)
sorasgoof (0)
Nicodemus (0)
Olinea (2) ThirdKoopa, chamber
Cyberbob (1) Olinea
Thirdkoopa (0)
TheLonging (0)
Not Voting (3) Furcolow, Nicodemus, Sorasgoof

It is now day one. With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 to no lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, January 5 at 10:41 AM Central Time.

[el simo]

I just don't believe you.

vote: el simo

So what do you believe?

[sorasgoof]

Okay, I just totally do not buy what el simo is saying. I don't know how the vote could be random but the target wasn't. That makes no sense. That's like, "Guys, I really think we should nuke someone today. Why? Oh, no reason, but now that were doing it let's think about it. We didn't have a reason in the first place, but I'm sure we can throw something together after the fact."

vote: el simo

Also, you said the backtracking Admiral found regarding Umbrage earned him scum points. You seem to be riding Umbrage pretty hard, yet you moved your vote to ortiz due to little more than semantics.

If that didn't make sense, it made sense in my head, and I have a fever of 105 right now, so pretty much everything sounds good to me. I feel like I'm drunk...

I won't be posting tomorrow until later in the night, as family is coming over for dinner.

As for the answer to your question, which I can tell by the way you're asking it you're trying to make me contradict myself, it depends. The way I feel like you bandwagoned is NOT good. Bandwagoning has its place, and is not necessarily bad.

Pretty confident on el simo, people.

[chamber]

el simo makes perfect sense. A 'random' vote is never random. He's giving more meaning to the made up way we use it than I normally do but its within reason. Easy wagon is too easy.

Unvote vote Sorasgoof

for a bad 4th vote.

[sorasgoof]

el simo makes perfect sense. A 'random' vote is never random. He's giving more meaning to the made up way we use it than I normally do but its within reason. Easy wagon is too easy.

Unvote vote Sorasgoof

for a bad 4th vote.

I really hope this isn't serious. You're using the fact that I was the fourth on the wagon as a reason for voting me, with no other reasoning? Awwwwesome.

If it were serious, you'd have pointed out the others who also do not see the reasoning behind his "random" vote.

[chamber]

I'm being perfectly serious. Each added vote should come with added weight. There is absolutely no reason for him to have 4 votes on him for what hes done so far.

[Umbrage]

A random vote might not be random, but a pressure vote is anything but random.

chamber's defence looks more like honest town than buddying scum to me. Doesn't mean el simo's not scum though.

[el simo]

Sora, don't vote me based on your own lack of understanding. I am saying the act of voting was random, not the target of the vote. These are two separate actions all together. What you are suggesting is that I chose a random person to vote on, what I actually said was that the decision to cast a vote was random. The point of making this statement was to let people know that I wasn't voting him based on the previously mentioned accusations, regardless of the fact that I agreed with said accusations.

What Umbrages backtrack has to do with ortiz lie, or "misunderstanding" I don't know, but my vote is on ortiz because I want it there and not on Umbrage. Why is this scummy? If it's not, why do you mention it?

And that isn't a good enough answer. How did I bandwagon? How is this different to a good bandwagon? Why are some bandwagons bad and others good? Explain yourself properly please. These questions go to Umbrage as well as he still hasn't answered me either.

Still want Admirals answer too.

[el simo]

To try and help you, I'll make a visual explanation.

What you are doing is assigning the modifier to the end of the sentence.

"On a completely unrelated note I think I'll

randomly

Vote: Umbrage

"

What I meant had it attached to the middle of the sentence.

"On a completely unrelated note

I think I'll randomly

Vote:

Umbrage

"

Note how your explanation of my vote is focusing incorrectly on the target of my vote being random, where as what I meant is focusing on the action of voting itself.

[TheLonging]

V/LA for a few days

[Umbrage]

I was definitely not implying random

Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon.

I called my vote random once

The vote was random, the target wasn't.

Because I decided to ignore the previous seriousness and specific reasons for voting him and randomly bandwagon him.

I wasn't acting in random in my decision to bandwagon him.

I... I just don't know what to think...

[diddin]

Prodding Nicodemus

[el simo]

Way to take things completely out of chronological order and context.

[el simo]

Honestly that is such a completely bullshit representation of what is going on.

Unvote, vote: Umbrage

.

I don't believe you can take those quotes so out of context and believe yourself. Towns motivation to misrepresent the truth so horridly? I can't think of any.

[el simo]

I was definitely not implying random

Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon.

I called my vote random once

The vote was random, the target wasn't.

Because I decided to ignore the previous seriousness and specific reasons for voting him and randomly bandwagon him.

I wasn't acting in random in my decision to bandwagon him.

I... I just don't know what to think...

The first quote was in response to Ortiz claiming that when I called my vote unrelated I was implying it was random, when I wasn't, I was implying it was unrelated.

The second quote doesn't mean anything. The fact that the vote was a bandwagon has no bearing on the fact that the act of voting itself was random, it is the same deal as the target of the vote.

Third quote is correct, the vote was random, the target wasn't. These are two separate actions and are left to two different and the randomness of one has no bearing on the other.

Fourth quote is correct.

Fifth quote is correct because like the target of my vote the bandwagon aspect has nothing to do with the action of placing a vote in the first place, which is what I am claiming was the random element.

I'm going to explain this to you AGAIN, because you just clearly illustrated how little you understand.

When you make a vote, you are making a series of decisions, not just one.

The first decision you make is the decision to vote.

The second decision you make is who you are going to place the vote on.

The third decision you make is the seriousness of your vote, it's aim, what you are trying to achieve with it, do you want to pressure him? Do you want to lynch him? Is it just a placer vote?

What you are claiming is that because the second and third decision weren't random, the first wasn't. This is not true, these decisions are independent of each other and therefore have no bearing on the randomness of the rest.

[el simo]

And now he will quote me saying, "I called my vote unrelated I was implying it was random," and then complain that he doesn't understand what I am saying and I subsequently must be wrong and scum.

[el simo]

unvote: Umbrage

I just made another ranting post about how you don't understand, and then noticed at the bottom of the post you said, "I just don't what to think," which implies I'm right and you don't understand, I guess that can be townie motivation.

Vote: Ortiz

[ThAdmiral]

I just don't believe you.

vote: el simo

So what do you believe?

I believe there is a discrepancy between what you are saying and what you have done. I think that you have been backed in to a corner by the early vote and are scrambling.

5 posts in a row doesn't help either, bro.

[el simo]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

[el simo]

Umbrage you still have not addressed my questions.

[chamber]

unvote: Umbrage

I just made another ranting post about how you don't understand, and then noticed at the bottom of the post you said, "I just don't what to think," which implies I'm right and you don't understand, I guess that can be townie motivation.

Vote: Ortiz

I actually found that throw away line at the bottom to be incredibly scummy. He's framed his post in a way to attack you but isn't committing to it. It looks scummy as hell. Fewer people should be scummy in this game, I can't vote for all of you.

Unvote Vote Umbrage

[ortiz1193]

unvote

@el simo: I actually do understand what you're getting at now. It's pretty clear I misunderstood when I tried defending my point earlier - I wasn't trying to misrep you, which is what you voted me for.

Umbrage is scummy for pushing that, but he could still be misunderstanding like I was. Also holding my vote until everyone posts more.

MOD: Prod Furcolow

- he hasn't posted at all yet.

[el simo]

Chamber, ortiz pretty much just explained why my vote isn't on Umbrage. The fact that he has admitted he is wrong and explained his misunderstanding also leaves me feeling pretty comfortable with an

unvote[

.

Would also like to wish everybody a belated merry Christmas. Most people read my posts with a lot of negative undertones that I don't usually have, I'm not really a grumpy guy.

Still have lots of unanswered questions from Umbrage, Admiral and sora.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

[el simo]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

Right., the heat you put on me by saying my random vote wasn't random was just too much to bare. Gotcha.