Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
King, you seem to be leaning more and more toward Uite-scum...what are your reservations?

DP is scummier as a whole than lunatic/Uite, and Uite hasn't posted enough stuff yet for me to be that confident of my read on him.

[singersigner]

...
King, you seem to be leaning more and more toward Uite-scum...what are your reservations?

DP is scummier as a whole than lunatic/Uite, and Uite hasn't posted enough stuff yet for me to be that confident of my read on him.

Alright. Fair enough. What do you think of my reasons for thinking Uite is a better lynch than DP? Does this mean you disagree?

On second thought, it's clear that without Pine, we have the potential for an L-1 tie, and someone needs to be persuaded. We've all seen/had cases for both Uite and DP. Would it be possible for everyone to explain why they think the one is better than the other?

[KingTwelveSixteen]

My big reason for sticking with a DP lynch is that he is playing terribly. Both of them are pretty good lynches, but the fact that DP will likely continue to flail around and refuse to answer questions tommorow regardless of the flip of Uite means he will almost certainly be lynched Day 2. If he is town I want his lynch out of the way and everyone's reactions to his flip and the stuff regarding him earlier in the game analysed and whatnot,

including

Uite's reaction.

Uite will likely continue giving us ligitimate information, scum/town tells (on him), as well as good arguments and accusations (or at least better than DP's) into Day 2, DP will likely not. My current read on Uite isn't a very good one and I believe if he continues to post and talk I will be able to get a better read on whether or not he is scum, but due to V/LAness he will be unable to give any more reads or arguments for the remainder of the day, and I wanna hear them.
DP is also a bit better as an information lynch since he has been talking and accusing people and whatnot for much longer than Uite (and lunatic didn't do much of anything).

Well, theres my reasoning. If you don't understand something please point it out.

[MirrorIrorriM]

I'm just not seeing the case for Uite. He seems overly defensive but I think it is just because he is trying to repair his predecessors mistakes. He is definitely third on my scum list (DP, Pine, Uite; respectively) but that is only because of how scummy his predecessor was.

[singersigner]

DP is also a bit better as an information lynch since he has been talking and accusing people and whatnot for much longer than Uite (and lunatic didn't do much of anything).

Hmmm...

[MirrorIrorriM]

DP is also a bit better as an information lynch since he has been talking and accusing people and whatnot for much longer than Uite (and lunatic didn't do much of anything).

Hmmm...

"Hmmm..."? What is that supposed to mean exactly?

[singersigner]

I'm in the process of contemplating who's lynch is a better information lynch. At this point, I would arguably say that Uite could be just as beneficial, just in the way that the wagon was started, and how people reacted to it, how he reacted to it, etc. Both DP and Uite have been over the map with DP accusing Pine, me, Luna/Uite, and Tanst...and then Uite accusing me-ish, Pine, Llama, and DP. There's really only one common factor between them (unless you count myself, but I got the impression Uite was fairly satisfied with my answers), being Pine...and since we can't really do anything about him now, I'm still opting for Uite.

Though I'll admit that the fact remains, that there's simply more material with DP. Is that enough to incriminate him or Uite? Maybe it's just turning into confirmation bias at this point, but I don't think there's much possibility that Uite isn't scum.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Merry Christmas everybody!

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Nice randomg Gifs.

Merry Christmas to all!

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Bluh, random*

[bv310]

Merry Christmas everybody!

What he said. Prods and vote count to some tomorrow, after I fight some boxing day crowds.

[tanstalas]

Merry Christmas everybody!

What he said. Prods and vote count to some tomorrow, after I fight some boxing day crowds.

You're fucking insane.

I went to a boxing day sale at Futureshop 2 years ago, went there for 4am, 2 hours before they opened and the lineup was HUGE...

Screw that, most of the sales you can do online as well

[bv310]

I'm 6'4" 235lbs. I can handle myself in crowds. Plus, I like getting to play my delay-presents right when I buy them.

[LlamaFluff]

@DP - Can you link me to a newbie game you were scum in?

[DavidParker]

Only been two (I replaced into both)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15219
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14792

Quite a bit of difference to my hyper-aggressive/reckless town play in most newbie games :/

[singersigner]

Hey, I'm gunna be gone for a bowl game for the next few days. If something's gunna happen not today, I won't really be around for it. I might be able to post tonight, but that'll be about it. Maybe Uite will be able to post something I can respond to by then? I'll also try to take a look at DP's scum games tonight as well.

[LlamaFluff]

Im going to say that the claim from DP makes him slightly more likely town then scum after looking at those older games of his, replacement meta does vary though, and I will vote him without hesitation over no lynch. Going to look at some VCs with my reads plugged in to see if I can get anything off of them. Mirror still bugs me to death, and will likely look into him tonight, maybe tans too depending on what information I can find.

[tanstalas]

Im going to say that the claim from DP makes him slightly more likely town then scum after looking at those older games of his, replacement meta does vary though, and I will vote him without hesitation over no lynch. Going to look at some VCs with my reads plugged in to see if I can get anything off of them. Mirror still bugs me to death, and will likely look into him tonight, maybe tans too depending on what information I can find.

What is a VC?

Also what happened with Brent? He just disappeared, I am assuming because of the holidays, just a heads up would have been nice, he just left us with the head scratching "btw, Uite, did you claim?" post and then gone..

This is going to get interesting in the last few days I think, you are willing to switch to DP and I am willing to switch to Uite. His post #477 is rubbing me the wrong way especially with how his preprocessor played, I do not like over-the-top reactions, from new players I can understand it, from someone like Uite not so much. Also:

I apologise for the behaviour of my predecessor. I found his presence to be somewhat

grating

. I can assure you that my conduct will be an improvement over his.

If you ever played with DDDP you know that he (well, actually Amished) has a theory of when someone replaces into a game and criticizes how the person he replaced into played the game then that person is likely scum - actually funny story, isn't that one of the reasons we busted you as scum in that second game you quoted DP?

Anyhow those above two points with everything else that has happened this game with Luna/Uite is making my finger itch.

[LlamaFluff]

Im going to say that the claim from DP makes him slightly more likely town then scum after looking at those older games of his, replacement meta does vary though, and I will vote him without hesitation over no lynch. Going to look at some VCs with my reads plugged in to see if I can get anything off of them. Mirror still bugs me to death, and will likely look into him tonight, maybe tans too depending on what information I can find.

What is a VC?

Vote Count. They backup the idea that DP is town if my strong town reads are correct.

In accordance with the Festivus spirit...



.....Lack of votecounts!

Happy belated Festivus everyone!

[bv310]

So today I learned exactly how quickly I can go from happy shopper to homicidal maniac. Took me three minutes to go from entering the mall to visualizing myself stabbing the guy behind me who felt it necessary to yell into his cell phone while he was three feet away from my head.

Anyway, this is all preamble to:

Day 1's Eighth Official Vote Count!

Uite (L-1): LlamaFluff, DavidParker, SingerSigner, BrentM
DavidParker (L-3): KingTwelveSixteen, Tanstalas
LlamaFluff (L-4): Uite

Not voting: Pinewolf, MirrorIrorriM

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch

Deadline is still set for Tuesday, December 28, 2010 at 11:59pm. If deadline is reached without a lynch, we will proceed into Night Phase with no lynch.


Also, I'm not that far between my VCs, you guys are just way too active for me to keep up with.

[DavidParker]

Im going to say that the claim from DP makes him slightly more likely town then scum after looking at those older games of his, replacement meta does vary though, and I will vote him without hesitation over no lynch. Going to look at some VCs with my reads plugged in to see if I can get anything off of them. Mirror still bugs me to death, and will likely look into him tonight, maybe tans too depending on what information I can find.

What is a VC?

Also what happened with Brent? He just disappeared, I am assuming because of the holidays, just a heads up would have been nice, he just left us with the head scratching "btw, Uite, did you claim?" post and then gone..

This is going to get interesting in the last few days I think, you are willing to switch to DP and I am willing to switch to Uite. His post #477 is rubbing me the wrong way especially with how his preprocessor played, I do not like over-the-top reactions, from new players I can understand it, from someone like Uite not so much. Also:

I apologise for the behaviour of my predecessor. I found his presence to be somewhat

grating

. I can assure you that my conduct will be an improvement over his.

If you ever played with DDDP you know that he (well, actually Amished) has a theory of when someone replaces into a game and criticizes how the person he replaced into played the game then that person is likely scum - actually funny story, isn't that one of the reasons we busted you as scum in that second game you quoted DP?

Anyhow those above two points with everything else that has happened this game with Luna/Uite is making my finger itch.

I got busted because there was a cop in the game who investigated me night 1 when us scum were cruising into day 2

The "scum-tell" was actually brought up, but I just shot it down haha. I believe it has some merit for players who aren't aware of it, but like most scum tells once people know about it, it becomes much less of a tell. Myself as town would criticize the person I subbed into as much as myself as scum would. It's more a personality trait than a scum-tell, although I can see how it is a scum tell for some people.

[DavidParker]

Also, I don't understand why uite is not voting for me. Seems like some kind of deflection that isn't very townish.

[BrentM]

Also what happened with Brent? He just disappeared, I am assuming because of the holidays, just a heads up would have been nice, he just left us with the head scratching "btw, Uite, did you claim?" post and then gone..
.

Sorry, was away for holidays, thought it was assumed everyone would be.

I asked to claim, because I thought that's what everyone is supposed to do before a hammer vote??? Am I wrong here?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Also, I don't understand why uite is not voting for me. Seems like some kind of deflection that isn't very townish.

Him voting you would be OMGUS. Which is exactly why I don't vote Llama even though he won't quit calling me scummy even when I fully explain myself. He even at one point admitted that I wasn't scum, but still persists with the accusation.

As for Uite I don't like him being the lynch for today. He doesn't mark me as scummy and everyone is just interpreting everything he says as being scum because of his predecessor (not necessarily bad in its own right).

Also the reason I took my vote off DP was so BrentM wouldn't go crazy and lynch him early. Since DP is at L-3,

VOTE: DavidParker

I still think DP is the best lynch for today with Pine being second. However, if either Pine or DP is scum it would probably mean the other is innocent; on account of how hard DP pushed Pine.

[Uite]

I'm back! I know it's unfortunate to have missed a couple of days so close to deadline, but as much as I love playing here, Christmas goes first. I'm sure you can understand.

Anyway, I'll be writing my stuff as I'm catching up, so here goes:

@King:

Those insults you mentioned in post #483 were the ones I referred to in my previous post, which I asked you to exclude in your answer since they're too early to be relevant to your theory of #481, since at that point he hadn't really been accused yet. As you can see, after that, he doesn't use language like that anymore, and his behaviour is in fact more in line with that of his previous game.

btw, Uite, did you claim?

No, I haven't, and I don't see much use for it unless someone specifically asks me for it.

@Singer:

I pretty much feel the same as you on DP, so I can understand that part. I disagree about Lunatic's scumminess, and not only because I know his actual alignment. I'm not sure I understand your point about the "guns flailing" though. I certainly don't blame everyone, so how did you get that impression? I'm also not sure how your other points make me scum. Obviously, my reactions weren't perfect, or I wouldn't be at L-1 right now, but I'm not seeing the scumminess of them either.

...Did anyone else have a little light in their head say

scum

when they read Uite's V/LA post?

Seriously? That post is pretty much completely neutral, so it's probably purely your preconceived notions talking.

I dunno guys...I personally feel that Uite's been given the time he's needed to catch up, post his cases, and defend himself as necessary.

This I can actually agree with. I've pretty much said all there is too say in my defense, so if you all still think I'm scummy, there's not much more I can do. I'll still keep trying of course.

On second thought, it's clear that without Pine, we have the potential for an L-1 tie, and someone needs to be persuaded. We've all seen/had cases for both Uite and DP. Would it be possible for everyone to explain why they think the one is better than the other?

Obviously I'm biased, but I think DP would be the better lynch if we're looking purely at information, though Pine would be even better still. The fact remains that he's been around the entire game, and therefore has more interactions (both positive and negative) to judge. Beyond that I also think he's been more scummy than me, even though he did have his good moments as well. Other than that, Llama seem like obv-scum, and I want him lynched. If I don't see more votes on him by tomorrow, I'll switch back to DP to avoid a no-lynch though.

Also, I don't understand why uite is not voting for me. Seems like some kind of deflection that isn't very townish.

Nah, it's just that I've found scum I'm sure of, making him a much better lynch candidate in my eyes. You should vote for him.

Him voting you would be OMGUS. Which is exactly why I don't vote Llama even though he won't quit calling me scummy even when I fully explain myself. He even at one point admitted that I wasn't scum, but still persists with the accusation.

It's really not omgus if you have good reasons to vote him, like you do. Omgus specifically means voting someone

because

they are voting/accusing you,

and

you don't have a good reason to suspect them, but return the vote

anyway

. At best it's a null-tell, and you should never withhold your vote simply because you think people might see it as omgus. Besides, a contradiction like you've just pointed out is definitely scummy, and very voteworthy.

I'll respond to LlamaFluff in a separate post, because I think I'll need to go a bit more in-depth with that.

Also, I'm fine with Pine staying in. I think it'll be good to have him around for questioning, and more practically, unless we get another deadline extension, a replacement won't be able to help us out in time for it to matter.