Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Umbrage]

Sora, don't vote me based on your own lack of understanding. I am saying the act of voting was random, not the target of the vote. These are two separate actions all together. What you are suggesting is that I chose a random person to vote on, what I actually said was that the decision to cast a vote was random. The point of making this statement was to let people know that I wasn't voting him based on the previously mentioned accusations, regardless of the fact that I agreed with said accusations.

What Umbrages backtrack has to do with ortiz lie, or "misunderstanding" I don't know, but my vote is on ortiz because I want it there and not on Umbrage. Why is this scummy? If it's not, why do you mention it?

And that isn't a good enough answer. How did I bandwagon? How is this different to a good bandwagon? Why are some bandwagons bad and others good? Explain yourself properly please. These questions go to Umbrage as well as he still hasn't answered me either.

Still want Admirals answer too.

I assume you're referring to this post.

The problem doesn't lie in the fact that you bandwagoned. The problem is that you misrepresented, by accident or on purpose, the fact that you were bandwagoning.

[el simo]

You are still being extremely vague. Why is that a bad thing? Does that mean if I made it really obvious and told everyone I was bandwagoning it wouldn't be scummy? Give me your complete logic here I still don't understand what your thoughts are on the questions I asked.

[Furcolow]

i knew MDZ was scum in that game based upon where he voted, the NK choice, and a particular post
if you iso me, on my last page, i voted him 3 times and i don't believe anyone else whatsoever
i unvoted multiple times, without voting anyone else, simply to revote him again to try to prove a point
i have no reason why kanashimi was acting so scummy as the medic, but i guess that is just how things go sometimes
he actually did a good job of staying under the radar. i wonder if he had been protecting my slot?
since you died, though, i guess we won't know

the fact you died in that newbie game was like *facepalm* for me, because you were the only person who really was actively defending the fact that I was a detective. I was really, really upset about it because in extended mafia games I have only been a detective 3-4 times, and every single time something happens that severely messes with me. In that newbie game it was an early wagon. Hell, I believe it was even you that was like OMG HE'S AT L-2 or something similar when I was really at L-3 or L-4 which I found scummily motivated. For some reason, though, I ended up not taking your buddying to be town and I trusted you wholeheartedly. I felt like we had a nice brolliance like ReaperCharlie tries to create in certain games.

Do you recall me considering MDZ to be scum? I felt him fairly obvious.
I actually maintained reading the game when Haylen/Faraday stepped in, somewhat. I took their interaction to NOT be town on town, and I had the insight as to what Haylen's role was, so I actually would like to pat myself on the back for my reads that game regardless of whether or not I played well (I know I didn't, but that's why I even regressed to try and join a newbie game in general)

If I could play in 50 more newbie games I would. I don't know site policy on this, but I really would. I want to get better at this game in terms of posting and character/personal behavior. My reads and night actions are very, very, very above average. To bring up RC again, as he somewhat said, if I could simply get over my "posting-deficiency" I would be one of the best players on this website.

[Furcolow]

*to be scum on town

[el simo]

This isn't the place to be discussing our previous game Furcolow, but yes I want you to improve too, desperately

[Furcolow]

You brought it up not me. I'm about to vote u if u don't give your thoughts.

[Furcolow]

And u bringing it up makes it ok for me to discuss I wouldn't have linked it...... On a phone posting these last two which OS why they are relatively brief.

[chamber]

@Furcolow:

helpful pointer #1: Don't make walls of text about pointless things.

How isn't Umbrage under more pressure? His play has been transparently scum driven.

[el simo]

Furcolow I linked it so they could get a meta on you and to show why you instantly buddied up to me, I didn't link it to discuss the game. I stopped reading after DMZ started wifoming about the night kill, I had him pegged as scum from there and lost interest.

[Furcolow]

i'd vote him, and i haven't even read yet (umbrage)
i don't consider that wall pointless, as el simo brought that game up merely a page ago
i just talked about that
i came downstairs because i had to give my fiance something, so i am no longer posting from my phone

I am going to read this game from the start to now after I post in all of my other games. Will probably take around thirty to an hour.


ebwop: i agree with you on that, he was easy to peg

[Furcolow]

ok, time to read this thread

[Thirdkoopa]

Hi, back, thanks for the prod.

Let me read around some stuff first.

[Furcolow]

*doesn't random vote*

*waits for people to say not random voting is scummy*

*waits for people to say that saying not random voting is scummy is scummy*

saying not random voting is scummy isn't scummy, but saying it the way you said it here just sounds like you're trying to be cute as scum

[Furcolow]

Ah, RVS discussion. *falls asleep*

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

thadmiral came in and "voted randomly" you say here... the previous 3 votes HAD BEEN ON YOU, whereas he voted for someone other than you... and he makes your scumlist...

what made you put him on your scumlist in this post #55? I feel this is distancing, umbrage.

[Furcolow]

I'm starting to develop a ping on my scumdar in Oritz's direction. I feel like the vote on him was more serious than it should have been, and the reasons he gave were almost exactly the same as chamber's reasons. To me, the self-vote comes off as a "Hey, guys, this is still a joke! I'ma vote myself just like Umbrage did so you guys know that....! *looks around nervously*"

However, el simo's vote just

happened

to "randomly" fall on a developing bandwagon. Interesting, no?

No. I like bandwagons as town. The person who earns my FoS the most is not El Simo, but thadmiral for deterring the wagon by placing a RVS on someone. Why not bandwagon at that point?

Hell, it was so obvious umbrage is probably willing to throw him under the bus!

[Furcolow]

However, el simo's vote just

happened

to "randomly" fall on a developing bandwagon. Interesting, no?

Yup my vote was unrelated to the previous two. Why is this interesting? What are your thoughts on bandwagons that makes this such an interesting occurrence?

yeah, my vote would have been unrelated to in a sense...
i would have been voting umbrage for being obviously scum

[Furcolow]

unvote ortiz;
vote umbrage

[Olinea]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

This looks like an admission that the vote was legitimately RVS without any reasoning and now people are attacking el simo for it.

If he had admitted straight up it was a joke vote or a vote specifically to push the bandwagon I wouldn't have stayed on his case. He didn't.

Hmmm. Purged the thread until I found an example of it. Page 4 we get this -- bolded part is the important part.:

I agreed with them yes but that is not why I voted him. Sora is right

I was specifically pushing the bandwagon.

And, in between these, another interesting quote, and the only one relevant to his first vote:

Yup my vote was unrelated to the previous two.

Why is this interesting? What are your thoughts on bandwagons that makes this such an interesting occurrence?

Also found this.

As for you, el simo, you said you were randomly voting. It's interesting how your "RANDOM" vote happened to follow the bandwagon. To me, it looks like you're trying to jump on the largest bandwagon and further it without too much (read: any) reasoning. How can you even say it was unrelated? It's interesting because it's too much of a coincidence.

So from this I can assume you think bandwagons are bad?

I know a strawman when I see it. I would ask someone to back me up on this but one game does not a meta make.

Unvote: Cyberbob

Vote: el simo

[Furcolow]

Personally I jump on RVS wagons regardless of alignment. As town to move the game along, and as scum for the same reason.

THIS...
for the love of God, THIS!

[Furcolow]

Cyberbob picks out Umbrage and ortiz's self-votes. Both were obvious jokes but Umbrage started it. Cyberbob decides he's gonna vote ortiz anyways, because when you want to stifle that kind of behavior you vote for the person who followed it rather than started it, right?

I don't give a rat's arse whether they're the funniest jokes in the world. I consider self-voting to be against one's win condition and contrary to the spirit of the game no matter the context. I chose ortiz over Umbrage because I dislike numbers in usernames.

jester?
a townie hammering himself when he is protecting power roles to prevent other townies from claiming during a massclaim scenario with a ML?
just two scenarios off the top
i strongly disagree with you
self voting can be good

i'm not saying "hammer yourself all the time" and give up arguing your way out of scenarios, but sometimes less is more, and there actually is a role that wants to be lynched.

[Furcolow]

Are you asking me?

Yes. Don't play coy. This is the second time you avoided giving a reason to your vote.

I see you have since done so. Thank you for that, but why not state this up front?

bottom of 3rd page, and i believe the 2nd post from you.
post #1 deterring wagon on scummiest player in the game
post #2 badgering person I consider towniest in the game

not looking good for my opinion of you this game admiral

[Furcolow]

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

This entire post is basically mudslinging.
I "disappeared" apparently, even though the game has been going for less than a day?
Olinea and chamber are posting diarrhea?
Seriously?

Vote: umbrage

this post is distancing

[el simo]

Olinea, purge through the thread again. You've only just revived old points that have already been answered.

As for the strawman, it's not a strawman. I needed to know what he thinks on bandwagons before I could reply, he still has not given me enough information which is why I am still continuously asking him for it so I can reply to his statement appropriately.

[Furcolow]

@Olinea: I've now made seven posts since confirmation, you've made eleven. chamber has made fifteen.

And activity levels and # of posts are not related. You can spam one-liners all you want, it doesn't mean you're very active in the game. All it does is confuse the town. Cyberbob summed it up the best. This game is the farthest thing from coherent.

@all: No more joking/sarcasm/rhetoric stuff. It only gets confusing in the end.

I disagree. This game has been a really easy read for me up until this point as a result of everyone's familiarity, and the fact people aren't wall-posting. Really, really easy for me to ferret out who aren't acting kosher. I had negative vibes from you before even reading, and seeing back, I can see why you're flailing and neck-high in water.

The only real question is where did your wagon go? I blame ThAdmiral

[Furcolow]

When did I lie?

I agreed with them yes but that is not why I voted him. Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon. I want to know why he thinks this is bad and if he doesn't what he is implying by it being too much of a coincidence.

This is the worst post in the game so far. You answer your own question: you lied about the reasoning for your vote. Which is alright, I think lying for a pressure vote is often a good play, but you try to make it look like you didn't lie. Which can only mean you have something to hide.

This.

he just "this"ed the person he is voting
gg