Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[el simo]

Or should I say, his deliberate bad playing skills.

[Cyberbob]

Why? I made a personal critique on him and he obviously didn't like this.

Again,meta him, he is prone to emotional outbreaks like that. Those kinds of posts are exactly what he is talking about in that statement I quoted.

If I could play in 50 more newbie games I would. I don't know site policy on this, but I really would. I want to get better at this game in terms of posting and character/personal behavior.

I still don't see how being butthurt could ever lead to the phrase "this is my VI account" but okay

Now how about you explain his amazing lack of idiocy.

Or should I say, his deliberate bad playing skills.

if he's not deliberately playing badly he is a liar (and you are defending him hardcore way to defend that guy)

[el simo]

Because you are making a terrible case on someone who hasn't done anything scummy - naturally I'm not going to allow you to try and push his lynch.

When he does something scummy I will vote him, but he hasn't so I'm not going to and neither should anybody else.

And that doesn't explain anything at all.

[Cyberbob]

d
e
f
e
n
c
e

[el simo]

Nice deflection bro.

[Cyberbob]

mafia is no fun these days it's become exactly like the shit games I wanted to get away from when I first signed up here

fucking 2009/2010 man

[el simo]

I registered before you bro.

[el simo]

Why do I have editing privileges on my posts? Is this normal?

[Cyberbob]

I registered before you bro.

Joined: September 21, 2009

[el simo]

I'm an alt Bobby boy.

[Cyberbob]

who of?

[el simo]

Telling you that sort of defeats the purpose of registering an alt.

[Cyberbob]

I don't see why unless you're up to no good!

[el simo]

Take it up with MeMe.

[InflatablePie]

Aww, no noose. Sadpie.

For the record, Pie, it's because it's hard for me to go in when... well... just look at some of the previous cases. I've read it all, sure, but I just want to get straight down to the point of why ___ is scum/town/neutral/etc. Plus I've just been having a hard time grasping thoughts with this round.

I still admittedly deserved that pressure.

Also, here's something - Elaborate on those scum groups.

If you've read it all, you've seen that people have already given cases for why X is scum/town/etc.. Read harder. Unless you're trying to imply that you want to wait until a later day to actually DO something (similar to the off-site game you were in), and that's just anti-town. I have seen you play before, you are not normally this lazy and scummy, now post your reads/hunt scum/do SOMETHING. Until you do, I believe you are scum trying to blend in with the chaos surrounding the other players.

This is not pressure. I want you dead.

I shall, at the bottom of this post.

Yeah I struggle with the idea of a Koopa lynch. His vote was scummy and his unvote reeked, but that isn't enough for me.

What is concerning is how Ip Man pushes Koopa really hard with out giving us any reasoning and then tells us to find it ourselves. I am actually struggling to find a place to start to explain how scummy this is.

"Ip Man" is a new one. I prefer Pie, but, I suppose this works.

Well, start to explain how scummy it is.

It's like he is trying to make us make the case for him, while he takes all the credit. It's also like he is trying to get us to read him biased wit the mind frame that he is already scum and now we need to find something to justify our thoughts. <- that isn't how you read a player. I'm staying silent Koopa from now until he posts his case.

It's like you read my mind.

No, I specifically wanted everyone to give their own read on Koopa and give me a reason why cannot be scum. I did not ask anyone to go do a PbPA with a biased mindframe, that wouldn't help with anything. Besides, do you honestly think I would ask all of you to do this if I didn't already have a good reason?

IPie, why is ThirdKoopa scum? I could see it, but I've been reading him fairly null
I wouldn't mind a policy lynch on him simply because I can't get a read on him, and tbh Umbrage has been giving me more town-vibes as of late... and the wagon just

feels too easy

.

Policy lynch for null-reads is a terrible idea if you have a scumread. Just sayin'.

Pie: Go ahead and give us the case on why TK is scum. I see his lack of pro-town vibes, but I didn't see anything that screams scum in the ISO.

The scummiest thing TK has done is unvote as soon as you pressure him like that - he majorly caved right there.

But you don't think that's scummy enough to warrant a vote? I'm disappointed, oritz.


Now, some elaboration my groups.

For starters, these are not scumgroups. These are just groups of players that I have paired up for one reason or another (aka not at random - I'll let everyone else attempt to figure out why these people are grouped together), in an attempt to help us find scum. I'll repeat the groups:

Group 1: el simo, Olinea, Furcolow
Group 2: Thirdkoopa, TheLonging
Group 3: oritz, Umbrage
Group 4: Cyberbob, sorasgoof
Group 5: chamber, ThAdmiral

Scum typically try to distance themselves from one another most of the time. I have created these groups with this and other things in mind, and I guarantee I am semi-correct in my assumptions. I have to note that some scum will buddy up to one of their teammates but not the other, in order to go against the typical scum behavior I just mentioned. So, Groups 2-5 can have both scum, while Group 1 is highly unlikely to be a three-man scumteam. Does that make sense?

Like I said, Groups 2 and 4 are most likely to have scum in them. Group 3 is also possible, depending on the alignments of groups 2 and 4, but 2 and 4 are my primary suspect groups. I said earlier that each group has at least one town member in it, however, I'd like to correct myself. Logically, that would seem true, but my gut says that each group

possibly

has at least one town member in it. Since I think 3K is scum, that would imply I think TL is town, which I can't say I do. In other words, I'm not 100% sure each group has at least one townie in it, but it's possible.

Case on 3K in my next post.

[InflatablePie]

Oh, sorry about my lurking guys. I should note for people who don't know this well that I have a habit of leaving tabs open.

For now, Chamber, mind replying to Olinea? You still have yet to do so after his post replying to you with your vote.

I'm assuming he mentions the tab thing for why someone would see his name in the Little Italy "who is online" forum. So he admits to lurking, then uses a terrible excuse as to why it may have seemed like he was online? AFAIK no one called him out for this. Overly defensive.

He asks chamber a question, which is never brought up again. It never goes anywhere. He doesn't build a case, or even mention chamber for the rest of his ISO. What was the point of asking this, then? I think he was just trying to seem like he was contributing as not to get called out on it, and then he goes back to lurker-mode.

Going to sleep soon and will try to get a reply in the morning but could we have a Vote total count right now by any chance?

I'd like to see so we don't end up hammering someone. It already feels like we've gone through so much in one day as Olinea said.

The second sentence of this just seems fake. "So we don't end up hammering someone." It's like he's trying to appear town, but not in the way that town wants to appear town. The last sentence just gives me a bad vibe - it seems hollow; doesn't have any substance. Am I the only one getting a weird vibe from this post?

So okay, I'm back.

That said, I can't come down to anything on the Umbrage/El Simo case yet. El, let me rephrase what everyone's asking: You're basically saying you voted to stir up discussion, yeah?

Also why did you OMGUS? It's too strange.

Fencesitting. And he rephrases what everyone has been asking, again, in order to blend in and seem like he is contributing.

I suppose the OMGUS question is a valid question, but again, it never seems to go anywhere. He doesn't follow up with any of his questions. I find this scummy.

k done with my re-read

El Simo and Umbrage both seem odd to me right now but what's the full case on El Simo summed up? I'm seeing more of something in umbrage now unlike before so I'll

Vote: Umbrage

- Will unvote if he gets too close to a lock without a claim. Anything I say pretty much comes across as a repeat with this case but tl;dr: mostly scummy voting patterns and trying too hard to blend in.

Never really got this but what's the case on Ortiz?

Where's TL, for that matter? I'm probably a bit tired and missed a few things.

I'll start to at least talk more but all these quote wars and posts just end up giving me more questions than solving questions this game. Things seems to be more settle now in my eyes so at least I'll be able to make a few more posts.

"Trying too hard to blend in." Funny choice of words.

Here's 3K's single post of decent content, however, his bandwagon-y vote on Umbrage is just terrible. He didn't vote one way or the other a few pages back, but now that Umbrage is the leading wagon, he places his vote on him. He doesn't offer any original or semi-original reasoning for his vote, either. His "unvote" comment seems fake, similar to the "so we don't end up hammering" statement earlier. It's giving me terrible vibes.

Then his unvote once I put pressure on him is just terrible. If that's not enough, he has posted eight times before I voted him, then I get a whopping three posts from him straight away. Is this not a bit suspicious to anyone else?

Questions for 3K:
- Why did you ask chamber to reply to Olinea?
- Why didn't you vote el simo when he was at 3 votes, but voted Umbrage when he became a leading wagon?
- Why did you ask what the case on oritz was?
- Why did you ask where TL has been? Also, I believe he is V/LA.
- Give me some of your reads, please.

[InflatablePie]

"Now, some elaboration my groups" = "Now, some elaboration on my groups." Sorry.

3K: And to elaborate on why I'm gunning for you specifically, it's because, SURPRISE, I think you're scum.

Cyberbob, thoughts on 3K? You've been pretty much the only one to post since I have that hasn't said anything about him.

[InflatablePie]

Finally, and sorry for the quad-post, as for my thoughts on the Umbrage/Cyberbob vs el simo/furcolow thing going on, I don't have a definite scumread on any of them, nor have I seen a very convincing case on any of the "main targets" so far. I think it's a common case of town and town going at it. The bandwagon on Umbrage also seems sketchy, especially since my main suspicion placed the 5/7th vote on him. But admittedly, I've been skimming a lot after post 150 or so and am more concerned with 3K at the moment.

[sorasgoof]

This whole group thing and the huge posts seem like very over the top ways of trying to make yourself look town, Pie.

[InflatablePie]

This whole group thing and the huge posts seem like very over the top ways of trying to make yourself look town, Pie.

You need to learn the difference between someone trying to catch scum and someone trying to look town. I couldn't give two shits about looking town, I want 3K dead and I want him dead today. Oh, and no opinion on 3K, soras?

Also:

To me, a bad bandwagon is when someone votes for little to no reasoning or for a lot of reasons that are obviously bullshit. Or bandwagons that look suspicious under the circumstances, such as your vote.

I'm seeing more of something in umbrage now unlike before so I'll

Vote: Umbrage

- Will unvote if he gets too close to a lock without a claim. Anything I say pretty much comes across as a repeat with this case but tl;dr: mostly scummy voting patterns and trying too hard to blend in.

Maybe I should look for bad bandwagons as a starting place for finding scum

Vote: Umbrage

*makes exaggerated arm and hand gestures back and forth between the posts*

[InflatablePie]

It's also really funny how you're in one of my suspect groups, soras, and you're trying to cast suspicion on me with your last post there.

Something I forgot to mention: I also know oritz, soras, 3K, TL and Olinea from another site. And our mod as well. Oli brought this up early in the game (post 41), I figured I should say this now.

[TheLonging]

Here's what I'm going to be doing now, might take me a couple of hours, but bear with me:

I see IP vs. TK, Umbradge vs. el simo, and furcolow vs. cyberbob. So if you all want to sit back and drink some fine wine and play some cool jazz, I'll be up to date quickly

[Thirdkoopa]

You guys want active me? Fine. And great, I get to start with a wall! (This post is clearly joking around)

The scummiest thing TK has done is unvote as soon as you pressure him like that - he majorly caved right there.

If you want me to elaborate on my unvote on Umbrage: Not only did I see the case for him less, but it's also the fact I'm reaching more towards "He's probably just Town being made to look scummy" Granted, I could be wrong, but meh.

Plus, I barely knew how many votes he had until the unvote. This is more of just "Me being lazy and trying to make a post of content at 5 AM while playing Civ IV" more than anything. I'll admit however, if this was someone else posting it, even

I

find it scummy.

If you've read it all, you've seen that people have already given cases for why X is scum/town/etc.. Read harder. Unless you're trying to imply that you want to wait until a later day to actually DO something (similar to the off-site game you were in), and that's just anti-town. I have seen you play before, you are not normally this lazy and scummy, now post your reads/hunt scum/do SOMETHING. Until you do, I believe you are scum trying to blend in with the chaos surrounding the other players.

This is not pressure. I want you dead.

I shall, at the bottom of this post.

I'm not trying to imply that I want to wait... Let me just put it this way: I'm not seeing the case too much for anyone

in particular

AFTER reading all of these posts. I want to just get down to the bottom and see the main case without playing ping-pong.

Me doing something? Simple. I'll stop this D1 meta habit right now.

Also, last I checked, voting someone until they do more is seen as pressure. Amuse me more.

Now, some elaboration my groups.

For starters, these are not scumgroups. These are just groups of players that I have paired up for one reason or another (aka not at random - I'll let everyone else attempt to figure out why these people are grouped together), in an attempt to help us find scum. I'll repeat the groups:

Group 1: el simo, Olinea, Furcolow
Group 2: Thirdkoopa, TheLonging
Group 3: oritz, Umbrage
Group 4: Cyberbob, sorasgoof
Group 5: chamber, ThAdmiral

Scum typically try to distance themselves from one another most of the time. I have created these groups with this and other things in mind, and I guarantee I am semi-correct in my assumptions. I have to note that some scum will buddy up to one of their teammates but not the other, in order to go against the typical scum behavior I just mentioned. So, Groups 2-5 can have both scum, while Group 1 is highly unlikely to be a three-man scumteam. Does that make sense?

Like I said, Groups 2 and 4 are most likely to have scum in them. Group 3 is also possible, depending on the alignments of groups 2 and 4, but 2 and 4 are my primary suspect groups. I said earlier that each group has at least one town member in it, however, I'd like to correct myself. Logically, that would seem true, but my gut says that each group

possibly

has at least one town member in it. Since I think 3K is scum, that would imply I think TL is town, which I can't say I do. In other words, I'm not 100% sure each group has at least one townie in it, but it's possible.

Case on 3K in my next post.

...What?

While it's nice, I want elaborations on the people and groups you posted specifically.

Post coming up next in response to Pie.

[Thirdkoopa]

EBWOP:

I'm assuming he mentions the tab thing for why someone would see his name in the Little Italy "who is online" forum. So he admits to lurking, then uses a terrible excuse as to why it may have seemed like he was online? AFAIK no one called him out for this. Overly defensive.

I used this

IN-CASE

someone called me out on this. This way NOT to make myself appear more Town or anything. This was to cover the lurking habit. I should have cleared that up.

Are you seriously just saying I should wait until someone calls me out on it for me to clear that up? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

He asks chamber a question, which is never brought up again. It never goes anywhere. He doesn't build a case, or even mention chamber for the rest of his ISO. What was the point of asking this, then? I think he was just trying to seem like he was contributing as not to get called out on it, and then he goes back to lurker-mode.

I was just trying to gain info for future reads. Admittedly, I planned to go further with the case, but once I came back to find four new pages I generally figured nobody would care.

The second sentence of this just seems fake. "So we don't end up hammering someone." It's like he's trying to appear town, but not in the way that town wants to appear town. The last sentence just gives me a bad vibe - it seems hollow; doesn't have any substance. Am I the only one getting a weird vibe from this post?

So we don't end up hammering someone

without a claim

You realized nobody else even said this and he was at L-2... right? Anyone remember that one lynch on SHM5 where Shado came in and didn't know it was L-1? It's called being cautious. Nobody else was doing it.

I suppose the OMGUS question is a valid question, but again, it never seems to go anywhere. He doesn't follow up with any of his questions. I find this scummy.

It never goes anywhere because of the whole habit I have when everyone's already jumping on other cases. I get the thought narrowed down in my mind that people won't care when in reality it does help us.

[Thirdkoopa]

EBWOP2:

"Trying too hard to blend in." Funny choice of words.

It's what I felt in a nutshell... at the time.

Here's 3K's single post of decent content, however, his bandwagon-y vote on Umbrage is just terrible. He didn't vote one way or the other a few pages back, but now that Umbrage is the leading wagon, he places his vote on him. He doesn't offer any original or semi-original reasoning for his vote, either. His "unvote" comment seems fake, similar to the "so we don't end up hammering" statement earlier. It's giving me terrible vibes.

Usually I offer original cases so... Yeah. That one's a bad habit with this game in particular.

Once again, 5 AM on the unvote, but I digress. If you want original reasoning, I can elaborate, but basically I found him trying too hard to blend in... and then as I went on reading about this case, I more found it "Everyone else making a few small things into something big"

Basically, the unvote had nothing to do with you, and the vote's already been explained through my past posts (Nonetheless the hammer)

Then his unvote once I put pressure on him is just terrible. If that's not enough, he has posted eight times before I voted him, then I get a whopping three posts from him straight away. Is this not a bit suspicious to anyone else?

I posted three times because I couldn't edit and meant to put it all in one post. And wow, he's trying to be active now! Thus he must be scum, right guys?! RIGHT?

Questions for 3K:
- Why did you ask chamber to reply to Olinea?
- Why didn't you vote el simo when he was at 3 votes, but voted Umbrage when he became a leading wagon?
- Why did you ask what the case on oritz was?
- Why did you ask where TL has been? Also, I believe he is V/LA.
- Give me some of your reads, please.

-OCD. Ironically I didn't want the case dropped.
-I didn't find the case in El Simo as weird.
-Summed up. Most of it seemed like ping-pong and I really couldn't gain anything out of it.
-I didn't see one of his posts in the re-read and I enjoy reading his posts. Didn't know about the V/LA
-Sure, something quicked up and simple now with all of these posts (With no flips these will probably be written bad but... ):
(??? = Lack of posts/Very neutral, Neutral = Plausible scum, leaning towards, Town = Guess.)
1. ortiz1193 - Neutral
2. el simo - Town (Slight read + Gut on this)
3. ThAdmiral - Neutral
4. Furcolow - Neutral
5. Umbrage - Neutral
6. chamber - Town
7. sorasgoof - Town
8. InflatablePie - ??? (You replaced an inactive person so...)
9. Olinea - ???
10. Cyberbob - Neutral (Slight scum read but this is really gut feeling right now)
12. TheLonging - ???

Also here's something for me - On top of the groups thing, why don't you elaborate on more cases?