Mini 1099: The Prisoner Mafia. Game Over.

[The Rufflig]

Then there is The Rufflig. The initial vote on EC was a little sheepy. The “he might be right about Fate” bit sticks in my ribs. He is voting EC and yet willing to give him credit at the same time. Just doesn't add up, conflicting ideas. Later he switches to Fate and pushes hard even though I get the impression of the two having some history, which to me at least implies he would know Fate and his likely hood to gambit. Pointless, fluff posts also set my gut on edge and that's before I even get to his reasoning for voting Chess today.

Sorry, you thought I was sheeping. I don't see a problem with voting EC and believing that Fate is scummy at the same time. The conflict is me thinking that scum could be calling out another scum for distancing purposes? That is not a conflicting idea. My vote was on EC for a max of 30 minutes before I switched my vote to Fate. While Fate knows me, I've only played with Fate's alt (probably only once). I have had to guess who Fate's alt is - a guess that Fate neither confirmed nor denied. So, no, I don't have good knowledge of what Fate's play style is like. Neither post you linked to was pointless or fluff. The "pointless" post was me calling out those who appeared to be lurking. The "fluff" post was me quietly advancing a theory that EC could be townie based on what was going on in the game and my past experiences - not "fluff" although it was completely ignored by our more experienced and supposedly wiser players.

[populartajo]

why nacho is scum:

-strategical lurking scumtell.
-convulated case against spyrex that he later discards

I agree with you that the Jack conversation is getting a bit stale, and I'll also agree that it's missing a lot of Jack. We're done with this conversation for now.

- actually his ONLY vote and suspect all the game has been spyrex. (scared of attacking people scumtell)

alot alot of fluff

Plum, why didn't you pay any attention to Jack today?

Sotty, what's your interpretation of this post?

?, what kind of scumhunting questions are this?

The FoS is adequately hypocritical, considering tajo is gone like dust in the wind.

wtf this has been in the game for years, what is the point or motivation to bring it? oh, i know

Spy, what's your read on Tajo?

trying to mislynch tajo scumtell.

PLEASE DIE

Confirm vote: Nachomamma

Good votes also: Plum and camn.

[Plum]

Ojanen, my sincere condolences.

@Plum: You know how everyone commented on how Jack's play this game is usual for him? Mis-repping is usual for me. It's my thing. I'll give you a couple recent examples one as me scum and one as me town, you can search out the rest if you wish.Newbie #1020 (Scum) Newbie #901 (Town)

Are you freaking kidding me? I mean. What. No seriously, if you really truly intentionally misrep people in your cases as Town and acknowledge that, how do you expect to catch scum OR convince anyone that your scumreads are correct? Against my will I'll look into this and try to take it into account, but the BLOODRAGE at the idea of this sort of playstyle as a Townie's approach to scumhunting is overwhelming. Urrrgh. Do you mind at least

not doing it anymore this game

, assuming you actually are Town? Or ever as Town, for that matter? For that natter, in the Town game you link to I see misrepping used as petty revenge. I'm not endorsing that or anything, but I'm not sure I equate it with what you're doing here anyway. To be frank I'm just seeing excuses (similar to the excuses from the SCUM game you linked to).

Plum, do you have a strong town read on camn or are you just scared of her?

Decent Townread, as a matter of fact, mostly based on gut/post tone, especially where she replaced in.

The rub-rub nudge-nudge case on Ojanen ending with a vote on nacho under the "hasn't posted about anything" (while true, but pot es kettle) is the easy push. This isn't a bus. Especially with Nacho's move starting out which I'll get to.

Nacho clearly

avoided

posting completely during the entire wagon. Between his last post Day 1 and the lynch were nearly four days and unless I miscounted 22 posts from Nacho in various games. While the entire wagon ran. Meanwhile he'd said little enough about the game in his four posts. Deliberately avoiding a game for days while important wagons run around and avoiding commenting altogether reeks of scum and scum tactics so hard that in-thread avoidance and tiptoeing around the wagon (like Ojanen) paled in comparison. And sure I wasn't doing the best job playing I ever have Day 1, but you know, you dust yourself off and such, and the fact that I wasn't that integrated into the game or whatever Day 1 has no bearing on how scummy Nacho's play was. At all.

Plum, why didn't you pay any attention to Jack today? Yesterday, you commented that the only reason that Jackscum didn't make sense was because EC was being scummier and the two didn't make sense as buddies, right?

The fact that Fate and others had some degree of confidence in Jack, and in particular that this sort of behavior was not out of the realm of town-Jack (and that multiple people said so, given that I recalled nothing of the sort from my personal experience with Jack) had something to do with the fact that he was not the first thing on my radar today. Mostly the fact that as a group the people not voting EC looked scummy in doing so (with to some degree the exception of chesskid, but that mostly on grounds of townread garnered elsewhere) turned me onto a different path of scumhunting to start Day 2. While I keep an eye on Jack, the above factors combined with the new sets of information generated by the flips are making me take seriously the new scumhunting avenues - one of which seems to lead straight to you.

Plum and The Rufflig are my strongest scum reads. Plum is on the outside looking in, her posts don't feel very natural at all. Then there is this that makes me think she was at least reading along and choosing not to comment heavily on the EC wagon apart from finding the time to tact her vote on there. Yuck.

I was waiting for someone to hammer EC for real, having added my vote and I think done what I could to get that wagon as thoroughly pummeled as I wanted. So it was nice to finally see Camn hammer, so I expressed it.

Nacho, I don't know

what

your 'little numbers game' is and I've seen it do nothing for me or the game or anything. So what's the deal?

[The Rufflig]

That said, garroted strikes me more as a SK than a vig simply because of the flavor.

Bingo! So why couldn't chesskid3 say that instead of floundering around and fishing for a vigilante claim? Even Jack ignored me. Garotting doesn't fit in with The Prisoner theme, so it was probably a sk kill. On a related note, the only guns I recall in the series were in the finale "Fall Out". The guns in "Living in Harmony" were fake of course. There was a bomb in "Its Your Funeral" as I recall. There was possibly poison in "Once Upon a Time". That's pretty much the lethal weapon list - unless you count rover in "Schizoid Man" - though he arguably wasn't programmed to kill.

I picked a fight with chesskid3 and then Jack in hopes that I could get them to actually say something. chesskid3's response makes me think I've found scum. Jack's continued anti-town play makes me think he's likely scum as well.

I actually like Camn - she's one of the few players actually participating in scum hunting. The only thing I haven't liked about Camn's play is her note that the EC wagon was going to fast for her and then she hammered on said wagon 3 & 1/2 hours later.

I like SpyreX, too.

I'm undecided on nacho, atm.

Plum and tajo seem slightly scummy.

[The Rufflig]

Seriously, Plum? You find my dropping a small scum tell now and then to be rage worthy, but don't even lift an eyebrow at Jack or chesskid3?

[populartajo]

hey rufflig please link me to a scum game, tia.

[Nachomamma8]

The set up speculation looks strong in that he knows of the theme. If that is the case I'm sure not how he seems to be the only one who doesn't agree that disappeared fits the theme for a scum kill. I guess we could all be wrong, but when I read the flavor and saw disappeared v garroted I thought it was clear.

Let me reword that. Why do you feel the speculation Rufflig made in that post is likelier to come from scum?

im debating wether rufflig is onboxious townie or some kind of scumzor with some couching. and ive seen some poeple think he is obvtown, please help me here, spy, chess?

SpyreX explained in ISO #5, ISO #7, then referenced in ISO #47.
I'm pretty sure that chess doesn't think Rufflig is town at all.

-convulated case against spyrex which he later discards

Why's the case convuluted? And I'm not discarding it. I've simply stopped talking to SpyreX about Jack until Jack has a chance to comment himself, as I said in #393 in response to #369.

?, what kind of scumhunting questions are this?

The first quote is referring to ISO #2, where Plum clears Jack with the assumption that EC = scum. She dropped this line completely in her D2 opening post, and I wondered why.

I found that post of Rufflig to be pretty town, so I was wondering why Sotty thought it wasn't.

wtf this has been in the game for years, what is the point or motivation to bring it? oh, i know

Every single one of my posts has ended with a comment on a random post. What made you think yours was any different from the rest?

trying to mislynch tajo scumtell.

Spy has commented mostly on me, Plum, and Ojanen, so I wondered what he thought about the last of the golden 4.

Nacho, I don't know what your 'little numbers game' is and I've seen it do nothing for me or the game or anything. So what's the deal?

What do you mean? It's something I want to try out and see if it produces any good. It's not like this is TRIED AND TRUE or something like that.

163:

SPYREX
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON

Chess being angry at SpyreX for arguing with Fate about who has to die, primarily about Jack. Might've contributed to the SpyreX vote of EC considering he was a Spy townread at this point, and he was one more person who found the Jack suspicion ridiculous.

PEDIT: What's wrong with the scum game he linked in thread?

[populartajo]

nachomamma, scumlist (towns, neutrals, sumz) in your next post plz. feel free to add some commentary attached.

[The Rufflig]

Townie: Newbie #842 (replaced out), #863, #887, #901
Scum: Newbie #913, #1020

Ongoing: Mini #1099

[SpyreX]

Nacho clearly avoided posting completely during the entire wagon. Between his last post Day 1 and the lynch were nearly four days and unless I miscounted 22 posts from Nacho in various games. While the entire wagon ran. Meanwhile he'd said little enough about the game in his four posts. Deliberately avoiding a game for days while important wagons run around and avoiding commenting altogether reeks of scum and scum tactics so hard that in-thread avoidance and tiptoeing around the wagon (like Ojanen) paled in comparison. And sure I wasn't doing the best job playing I ever have Day 1, but you know, you dust yourself off and such, and the fact that I wasn't that integrated into the game or whatever Day 1 has no bearing on how scummy Nacho's play was. At all.

... Nacho had 22 posts in other games during that time?

OOOHHH man Nacho you best get talkin.

Additionally, the issue was is and will be "stuff on Oj" / nacho vote.

I don't like it, at all.

[Sotty7]

Then there is The Rufflig. The initial vote on EC was a little sheepy. The “he might be right about Fate” bit sticks in my ribs. He is voting EC and yet willing to give him credit at the same time. Just doesn't add up, conflicting ideas. Later he switches to Fate and pushes hard even though I get the impression of the two having some history, which to me at least implies he would know Fate and his likely hood to gambit. Pointless, fluff posts also set my gut on edge and that's before I even get to his reasoning for voting Chess today.

Sorry, you thought I was sheeping. I don't see a problem with voting EC and believing that Fate is scummy at the same time. The conflict is me thinking that scum could be calling out another scum for distancing purposes? That is not a conflicting idea. My vote was on EC for a max of 30 minutes before I switched my vote to Fate. While Fate knows me, I've only played with Fate's alt (probably only once). I have had to guess who Fate's alt is - a guess that Fate neither confirmed nor denied. So, no, I don't have good knowledge of what Fate's play style is like. Neither post you linked to was pointless or fluff. The "pointless" post was me calling out those who appeared to be lurking. The "fluff" post was me quietly advancing a theory that EC could be townie based on what was going on in the game and my past experiences - not "fluff" although it was completely ignored by our more experienced and supposedly wiser players.

My impression of your EC unvote was that the wagon was moving fast enough that it wouldn't have needed your support. I saw no real transition from your EC vote over to Fate.

Throwing up a post count with no other analysis is fluff posting. Even more so in a game that seemed to be speeding along like this one was. The second post was you talking gibberish about newbie games. I don't need to tell you that this isn't a newbie game, if you thought EC was town you should have come out directly with that. Also why would you “quietly advance” this theory. At this point your town read was being run up quick. Quiet wasn't going to cut it, it looks like you were trying to position yourself in a good light today by being some what cryptic yesterday.

I'll concede the point about knowing Fate's history though. From reading it looked like the pair of you had played together.

That said, garroted strikes me more as a SK than a vig simply because of the flavor.

Bingo! So why couldn't chesskid3 say that instead of floundering around and fishing for a vigilante claim? Even Jack ignored me. Garotting doesn't fit in with The Prisoner theme, so it was probably a sk kill. On a related note, the only guns I recall in the series were in the finale "Fall Out". The guns in "Living in Harmony" were fake of course. There was a bomb in "Its Your Funeral" as I recall. There was possibly poison in "Once Upon a Time". That's pretty much the lethal weapon list - unless you count rover in "Schizoid Man" - though he arguably wasn't programmed to kill.

I don't get it.

The reason you are voting Chess is the following:

I see disappeared and garroted as the methods of killing and no way to tell which one is the scum kill and which one was the vigilante kill. However, you attributed the Zang kill to the vigilante and ruled out the possibility that it was a scum kill. How?

How about I turn it around and ask you why you think there are 2 (non-sk) scum factions?

I'm running off your assumption that there is a vigilante running about. I make no such claims as to the identity of the second party.
Since I can't have your answer, you can have my vote.
VOTE: chesskid3

You seemingly agree with Chess about the Vig in post 320. Your reason for voting him is how he attributed the kills. You make zero mention of a possible SK so to jump on my reasoning after the fact makes little sense.

I picked a fight with chesskid3 and then Jack in hopes that I could get them to actually say something. chesskid3's response makes me think I've found scum. Jack's continued anti-town play makes me think he's likely scum as well.

“Picked a fight”? I'm going to need you to elborate some on that. Also what about Chesskid's responses to you make you think scum and why?

What do you think of people vouching for this is how Jack plays?

= = = = = = =

The set up speculation looks strong in that he knows of the theme. If that is the case I'm sure not how he seems to be the only one who doesn't agree that disappeared fits the theme for a scum kill. I guess we could all be wrong, but when I read the flavor and saw disappeared v garroted I thought it was clear.

Let me reword that. Why do you feel the speculation Rufflig made in that post is likelier to come from scum?

I never said it did. I'm guessing you think this post is a town tell, you are going to have to break down why for me.

?, what kind of scumhunting questions are this?

The first quote is referring to ISO #2, where Plum clears Jack with the assumption that EC = scum. She dropped this line completely in her D2 opening post, and I wondered why.

I found that post of Rufflig to be pretty town, so I was wondering why Sotty thought it wasn't.

?

I find Ruff scummy but that doesn't mean I find

all of his posts scummy.

Explain.

[camn]

22 posts huh? Spy is right... That does need explaining.

UNVOTE
Vote NACHOMAMMA

I am also unsatisfied by your explanation as to why Fate is dead.
Fate claimed that if he were to die N1, then his top suspect would be you.
Why would he say that?

[camn]

Also.. I would like to point out something.

Populartajo

.. in this post :
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2695289
You use Process of Elimination as your 'reasoning' for Me or Plum being scum.

However, you fail to make a case as to why scum would need to be on the Cookie Wagon.
You also put 3 unconfirmed up as town.
This, of course, totally destroys POE as actual 'reasoning'.. it is like saying "I think camn/plum are scum and I will tell you why: cuz I think it!! haha!"

Keep in mind.. I am not disputing your conclusions, per se (Plum could really be scum).. but your logic is questionable. I think you can do better.


To answer your question TO ME in that post....I got bored. I was unimpressed by Cookies defense, and I wanted to see the flip. I should have waited.. but my bloodlust was rising.
Also... I would love for you to personally examine why I might attack Nacho right off the bat this morning. I have my reasons.. and they certainly aren't what chess thinks they are

[The Rufflig]

Ok, Sotty7, in your latest post you have now done to me what I have done to others. You have deliberately taken me out of context and picked a fight with me. As such, I see no need to respond to it.

[chesskid3]

oh I just got internet back. Catching up on this one tomorrow.

There has been a cessation of hostiilities. Sorry to everyone who had to see that.

[populartajo]

This, of course, totally destroys POE as actual 'reasoning'.. it is like saying "I think camn/plum are scum and I will tell you why: cuz I think it!! haha!"

Keep in mind.. I am not disputing your conclusions, per se (Plum could really be scum).. but your logic is questionable. I think you can do better.

wtf, you know how i play, i always do that all the time.

an easy wagon guarantees at least one scum on it. Mixing confirmed results with my town reads, that I explain in the same post, POE works eficiently with the people I dont have a read on, therefore increasing their odds of being scumz.

you dont think that wagon has scum on it? if no, why? if yes, who is the scum in that wagon?

[SpyreX]

Nacho. Post. Here. Now. Explain.

[camn]

I dont know, Tajo .
I think if there is scum, they would have got on early... but part of the reason I hammered is because I had a pretty good town-read on everyone but Zang that was on at the time... and Zang flipped town.
Not enough data for good VCA on that wagon right now, i think. If ever.

Also, you should read this game with town-camn in mind. . . it would be more accurate.

[populartajo]

Nacho. Post. Here. Now. Explain.

i agree with this sentiment

[populartajo]

I dont know, Tajo .
I think if there is scum, they would have got on early... but part of the reason I hammered is because I had a pretty good town-read on everyone but Zang that was on at the time... and Zang flipped town.
Not enough data for good VCA on that wagon right now, i think. If ever.

Also, you should read this game with town-camn in mind. . . it would be more accurate.

camn who is scum?

[Sotty7]

Ok, Sotty7, in your latest post you have now done to me what I have done to others. You have deliberately taken me out of context and picked a fight with me. As such, I see no need to respond to it.

Err no. I assume you are talking about the reason your are voting for Chess here. I standby my post and you have altered your position to make yourself look better. You make no mention to the possible SK. Unless you are claiming it was a trap, then there is no misrep here (and it still wouldn't be unless you are claiming I can read minds). Even though I am finding Chess somewhat scummy, your reasoning for voting him is extremely weak.

You need to explain yourself as I won't be fobbed off so easily. "misrep" is one of the most over used phrases in mafia, unless you can show your working I'm thinking I have hit a nerve.

[camn]

Tajo-
I haven't had any big shifts in my reads since my last player by player summary. You and nacho are looking good for scum.
Plum is looking scummier, and Sotty is looking more town than Oj was.

The point of your question? Are you saying I am not being transparent enough with my reads?

[Jack]

camn and rufflig are scum. More later.

[Jack]

unvote

[The Rufflig]

I really get the feeling you aren't reading the thread, Sotty7.

But ok, as far as the EC wagon goes. After I voted for him, you may notice I posted my case on Fate - by request. It was shortly after that post that I moved my vote to Fate as I felt the case on Fate was stronger. So, yes, there was a transition from EC to Fate. Sorry you missed it. As for my other posts not being loud enough for you - tough. I wasn't about to stick my neck out for someone that I didn't firmly feel was town.

I'm running off your assumption that there is a vigilante running about. I make no such claims as to the identity of the second party.

Since I can't have your answer, you can have my vote.
VOTE: chesskid3

You seemingly agree with Chess about the Vig in post 320. Your reason for voting him is how he attributed the kills. You make zero mention of a possible SK so to jump on my reasoning after the fact makes little sense.

You even quoted me and _still_ apparently do not understand what I said -- the only other alternative was that you were deliberately misrepresenting me. Is it not glaringly obvious that I was challenging chesskid3's beliefs and trying to goad him into making some sort of statement to support his beliefs?

As for Jack, I don't care if this is how he always plays - it is extremely anti-town. So, if he isn't scum, then he is playing [censored][censored!]

[censored!]

badly for a townie.

I'm looking forward to Jack fulfilling his promise that he is actually going to contribute to the game - eventually.