Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[sorasgoof]

^^good vote.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while. I'm really confident at least one of those 3 is scum. I'm gonna reread the 3 of them because I think I might prefer one of the other two lynches over Umbrage. Also, not sure what to think of CB. I get the scummiest vibe ever from him but I don't know if he's actually scum or if it's just his playstyle.

Ohhhhkay, now that I have a vote on me, you've all of a sudden had a bad feeling about me for a while. I see.

[ortiz1193]

You should know that people rarely ever just randomly say their gut reads when they have no evidence and can't back it up. If I would've said 5 pages ago, "oh hey btw soras is scum, I can't prove it or anything, I just feel it," then it would've gotten nowhere.

[diddin]

Due to the holidays and all, I've decided to make the time before a prod 72 hours instead of 48. You still only have 48 hours to respond to a prod before I force-replace.

[ThAdmiral]

ThirdKoopa's List

1. ortiz1193 - Neutral
2. el simo - Town (Slight read + Gut on this)
3. ThAdmiral - Neutral
4. Furcolow - Neutral
5. Umbrage - Neutral
6. chamber - Town
7. sorasgoof - Town
8. InflatablePie - ??? (You replaced an inactive person so...)
9. Olinea - ???
10. Cyberbob - Neutral (Slight scum read but this is really gut feeling right now)
12. TheLonging - ???

You have no scum reads at all, other than one "slight scum read" based on gut? I find that hard to believe. And how do you not have any read on Pie? He's been interacting with you quite a bit. What makes you think chamber and I are more townie than anyone else? Your reads are quite similar to Furcolow's reads...

Then, we have the horrible vote on Umbrage (who, by the way, is now a neutral read for some reason), the unvote, and the subsequent burst in activity after being called out. I was already becoming suspicious of you in your ISO5, but everything since then has made you the most scummy player in the game at this point, in my opinion.

vote: Thirdkoopa

I don't condemn him as much for the lack of reads as he has quite a few people he has listed as town. As you point out, though, the fact that he voted umbrage because he was "seeing more of something in umbrage now unlike before" (from his post 223), which is a weird reason, and then had him as neutral in this list is suspicious.

Umbrage

was

the most suspicious in my eyes at the time of that post. I still think he can be scum.

Fair enough, but what happened to change him from a "likely scum" read to a "neutral" one?

[ortiz1193]

Alright, I reread the last ~4 pages to re-evaluate my reads. First off, thanks Pie for actually getting us going (imo). Looking back on it, Umbrage and El Simo both look town (or atleast not scum) and the votes on them came from our lack of anything else to go on.

-Pie is coming off very town. Pretty sure, but he could be messing with his meta because I think I caught him in our last game together (F&I), and Fugi is getting a good grasp on his scum meta too.

-I don't think TK is scum. I can see a few scummy things he's done, but he just comes off as having an r2r meta to me (the one where r2r lacks the ability to make a decision on Day 1 so people always call him scum for it). I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum, but I just don't think he is, and definitely not worth a vote. Someone said something earlier along the lines of "town being made scummy" and I think that could be happening here. I stand by the scummiest thing he did was unvoting as soon as he got called out.

-I'm still suspicious of Soras, mainly because of his posts involving Pie.

This whole group thing and the huge posts seem like very over the top ways of trying to make yourself look town, Pie.

@Olinea, Pie: This is the same thing Pie did in GHM1, if I remember correctly. I'm not saying he's scum here, but everyone went along with what he said in GHM1, and the town lost because of it (his mafia team did too, but that's not the point ). Link for those who weren't in the game: http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopi ... 99&start=0

Point is, I just don't want people to go necessarily go along with these groups Pie has made solely because he's...made them. Those are his (valid) opinions, but people looking at these groups should take other things into account, and not take them to heart so quickly (I don't know if people have yet).

This comes off to me as trying to discredit Pie as soon as he starts his case on TK. The first thing I thought was chainsaw, but that would require TK being scum, and then he voted TK in the next post so idk. I still don't like it.

Also, I don't like his reactions to suspicion being placed on him. His reactions to Chamber early in the game, the last vote on him, and my post just don't read well to me. He just comes off overly hostile in those posts.

+I think TK is the second wagon he jumped on (I think he was on one earlier when chamber voted for him), which isn't necessarily a scumtell, but still worth mentioning.

That is the reasoning behind soras being second on my scumlist.

--

unvote, vote CyberBob

You think TK got away with a lot? CB has done absolutely NOTHING. He has not scumhunted, he has not contributed at all. His votes aren't looking for scum, they're like principle votes or something. He voted me for self-voting (and having numbers in my name >_>, which he also said was NOT Rvs), he voted Furcolow for being a VI, and has done nothing to actually find scum. He's posted numerous times about the rest of our posting styles/game theory (about caution being a scumtell), but still has done absolutely no scum hunting.

Scum letting town do work on each other while he coasts? I think so. Read his ISO.

[Umbrage]

I wasn't worried about that, as evidenced by the way I treated it as a joke.

Observe how he uses a conveniently placed backdoor to excuse his actions.

Maybe I should be voting you for phrasing the above to make me look scummy.

Spreading suspicion without commitment to a wagon. This can be taken as a willingness to vote me or a simple joke, depending on how everyone reacts.

[InflatablePie]

Call it paranoia, but in this early of a stage in the game, I could see anyone that isn't me flipping Town or Scum - Doesn't this apply to anyone who's town?

I'm town and I can see you flipping scum and nothing else. So yeah.

That's nice but no no no. I want you to elaborate more on the specifics. You just come in posting this and don't elaborate why you think if I flipped Scum, TL = Town.

If you actually read what I was saying, you'd understand. You and TL have too much in common (hence why you're in the same "group") to probably be a scumteam. Same with the other groups. I kind of corrected myself later - it is POSSIBLE both of you are scum, but logically unlikely, because scum try to separate themselves from one another.

You're pointing out me for me pointing out that I'm away for a bit of time in-case anything

No, I'm pointing out that you're being over-defensive.

"He must be scum because he can't edit a post! Get him!"

I won't go over this too much since it's just a bit of a scumtell but let me just say right now that it's more of a "I realized I should be active despite all these things going on in my life, or I should get a replacement, or see how active I can be"

I was prodded FYI. I just chose to finally make posts of content now.

Your quotation marks sections are twisting my words, and are making you look more and more scummy IMO.

I couldn't care less if you were just lurking or were super-active, it's the fact that you:
A) got paranoid or whatever before anyone even called you out on lurking
B) started being super active and defensive after being called scum

Town is leaning towards due to one of his comments saying "Hey, guys, I'll lynch myself if he flips town" but this could be sarcasm and I could just be an idiot at reading this.

No, I'm completely serious. I know that you're scum.

This post I completely agree with, actually. Umbrage gets a million town-points in my eyes.

Note: Pie is not playing his scum meta at all.

Nor am I playing my usual town-meta, for the record. FMPOV. Again though, lolmeta.

You should know that people rarely ever just randomly say their gut reads when they have no evidence and can't back it up. If I would've said 5 pages ago, "oh hey btw soras is scum, I can't prove it or anything, I just feel it," then it would've gotten nowhere.

but if I'm wrong on one townread, it's probably oritz. Nothing concrete though, just gut.

(Of course you did say

rarely ever

.)

First off, thanks Pie for actually getting us going (imo).

You're welcome, now stop sucking up to me please.

Looking back on it, Umbrage and El Simo both look town (or atleast not scum) and the votes on them came from our lack of anything else to go on.

god you're mimicking what I said earlier

unvote, vote CyberBob

You think TK got away with a lot? CB has done absolutely NOTHING. He has not scumhunted, he has not contributed at all. His votes aren't looking for scum, they're like principle votes or something. He voted me for self-voting (and having numbers in my name >_>, which he also said was NOT Rvs), he voted Furcolow for being a VI, and has done nothing to actually find scum. He's posted numerous times about the rest of our posting styles/game theory (about caution being a scumtell), but still has done absolutely no scum hunting.

Scum letting town do work on each other while he coasts? I think so. Read his ISO.

I don't mind this vote, but we have bigger fish to fry than Cyberbob at the moment.

And Umbrage again points out in #330 what's wrong with soras. Not to mention, in the second quote, it seems really OMGUS-y.

Umbrage, your reasoning is sound and soras is also a suspicion of mine. I'll lend you my vote.

Unvote, Vote: sorasgoof

Don't get me wrong, I still know 3K is scum. But I don't mind keeping him around for a little while longer. Honestly, it's kind of fun arguing with him, and I'm getting better reads as a result. ^_^

Still anticipating TL's post.

[ThAdmiral]

Now I am suspicious for ortiz and pie.

Ortiz for buddying up to pie pretty heavily. Pie for pointing out the fact that ortiz is buddying (one could read "You're welcome, now stop sucking up to me please." as "dude, stop buddying up to me so obviously!"), and also for voting sora even though he is apparently 100% sure thirdkoopa is scum, because he is enjoying playing around with him or something.

vote: pie

[sorasgoof]

Uh, Pie? You're changing your vote from someone you say you are 100% positive is scum to someone who is just a suspicion? What is wrong with this picture?

Umbrage, please go play something else that will accept you being ridiculous. People like you are so annoying. "Lemee just take everything he says and put a scum spin on it!" I have posted

nothing

in this game with any intention of "leaving a backdoor open."

I can't say I felt this game was going to go any differently than any other. One look at the games on my wiki will show you that EVERY DAMN DAY 1 people turn absolutely fucking stupidly idiotic and latch on to me for no good reasons, then the town follows along. It's cool. I guess you could say my Day 1 meta is to do what I'm going to do, and draw out the scum.

[sorasgoof]

And watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyGOBUgKW0g

[InflatablePie]

Now I am suspicious for ortiz and pie.

Ortiz for buddying up to pie pretty heavily. Pie for pointing out the fact that ortiz is buddying (one could read "You're welcome, now stop sucking up to me please." as "dude, stop buddying up to me so obviously!"), and also for voting sora even though he is apparently 100% sure thirdkoopa is scum, because he is enjoying playing around with him or something.

vote: pie

You can stop joking now.

Uh, Pie? You're changing your vote from someone you say you are 100% positive is scum to someone who is just a suspicion? What is wrong with this picture?

Uh-huh. And nothing's wrong with that in my eyes.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: There's many many reasons for what I'm doing, but it's no fun if I explain it every time. That would defeat the purpose.

[sorasgoof]

Also, I don't like his reactions to suspicion being placed on him. His reactions to Chamber early in the game, the last vote on him, and my post just don't read well to me. He just comes off overly hostile in those posts.

+I think TK is the second wagon he jumped on (I think he was on one earlier when chamber voted for him), which isn't necessarily a scumtell, but still worth mentioning.

I tend to become hostile towards what I see as stupid people who won't listen to reason/vote for stupid reasons and people follow along.

[ortiz1193]

TK had 3 votes on him, and Soras had 1 right?

Pie why did you switch your vote from someone you are 100% as scum to someone that is "a suspicion"? Especially when the 100% scum has more votes on him? I don't understand your play at all.

(Ninja'd by like 3 people btw)

I don't think my buddying is relevant to the game. I said thank you for starting the game and talked about my town read (which is supported by offering himself as lynch-bait) which wasn't buddying. I talk to Pie in an IRC channel regularly, so its not like I'm just doing this out of nowhere.

Admiral: Nothing to say on Soras/TK/CB?

[InflatablePie]

Your buddying is relevant. Everything you post is relevant.

I have my reasons. For now, I'll give you this: soras is scummy, I have given reasons why, and I especially agree with Umbrage, who I find extremely town. In addition, the fact that soras, a suspicion of mine, is on TK's wagon, makes soras the logical choice - either soras is bussing or (on the VERY slim chance I'm wrong) he's sheeping what he thinks is an easy townie lynch.

The longer 3K is around, the more proof I'll gather to ensure his lynch. That's fine with me.

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral: Nothing to say on Soras/TK/CB?

Sora - i think how he is gathering votes is suspicious
tk - i'm waiting to hear back from tk.
cb - he's not on my town list, but there are bigger fish at the moment.

[InflatablePie]

Oh, and I know that my logic there is flawed because implies he's scum in the first place... if soras IS town, well, I'm just wrong then.

Preview Edit @ ThAdmiral:
k. Why?
k.
That's what I said.

Also, you didn't remove your vote. Relevant.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP *because that implies

Accidentally a word.

[el simo]

Has anyone else noticed soras constant parroting? Scum points for sora!

[el simo]

I'm undecided about his bandwagon hopping just yet, his unvote on me did seem genuine, I make this assumption based on his explanation for voting me in his vote post, which clearly shows he didn't understand what I was talking about. Still prefer TK for the mo.

[el simo]

I don't think Cyberbob is scum lurking, I don't think his policy lynch push was scum motivated either, I feel scum wouldn't waited until after a first vote before trying to push an easy mislynch. I would like to see him posting more though, whether he thinks anything we've said is useful or not, a lot has happened, every second person is coming out with new cases on people and there is certainly no lack of content for him to comment on.

[el simo]

To add to Admirals scum buddying comment:

Looking back on it, Umbrage and El Simo both look town (or atleast not scum) and the votes on them came from our lack of anything else to go on.

god you're mimicking what I said earlier

Looks like a soft attempt at distancing, makes a comment that implies negativity and suspicious, but leaves it that with out actually saying it is suspicious (when it is, parroting = scum tell). Also looks like a buddy warning.

[el simo]

Aaaaaye I can't decided where to put my vote now, that comment Admiral brought up has made me completely doubt the case on TK, based solely on the fact that I am now suspicious of Ip Man. At the same time Umbrage has been talking a lot of sense and I'm finding myself leaning towards agreeing with his case.

Unvote

until I can decide where to go.

[Olinea]

Cyberbob's really not a big threat, agreed, but I'm a firm believer of "Don't let people coast" and Cyberbob's trying to pull it.

@InflatablePie:
Let's put it this way. Say you suddenly recieved a daykill and you can either shoot TK or soras. Who do you shoot, and why?

[Cyberbob]

I'm town and I can see you flipping scum and nothing else. So yeah.

this is the most retarded thing fyi

whether he thinks anything we've said is useful or not, a lot has happened, every second person is coming out with new cases on people and there is certainly no lack of content for him to comment on.

alright then I shall go through every person and detail my thoughts on them

- ortiz1193: idiot that thinks broadcasting his townreads this early is a good idea (it's not) and is still angsty over my vote for him (he also says other dumb things)
- el simo: weird alt dude that is not stupid I guess
- ThAdmiral: like his opinions on umbrage/ortiz, not seen much else from him however
- Furcolow: either he's a VI account or he isn't - you can't use it as an excuse for something and then pretend like it's no biggie. I want some clarification on this from him before I drop the matter
- Umbrage: dumb/scummy poster that tried to pull some dipshit town read thing on me for being "detached and analytical" + buddying hardcore with el simo + defending thirdkoopa
- chamber: his opinions re: furcolow and umbrage are good but not enough to form an opinion on their own, he's been changing his vote too much to develop one line of argument fully enough
- sorasgoof: i like his posts i guess but he used the word scumdar unironically and his avatar is weird
- InflatablePie: Dumb As A Rock for thinking caution is a scumtell (i mean seriously lmfao @ that opinion) plus does other scummy shit like giving "pure town reads" on people
- Olinea: his great avatar is insufficient to make up for his posts sadly (lol @ accusing me of active lurking after making a post to avoid prod)
- Thirdkoopa: duck duck duck duck duck duck goose

Unvote, Vote: Thirdkoopa

- TheLonging: has made 9 posts

most likely scumteam atm is ortiz/thirdkoopa/umbrage imo (note that it's literally day 1 so this is nowhere near a sure thing but if I had to guess right now that's who I'd pick)