Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[Gammagooey]

THIS IS MY THOUGHTS.

Vote:UncertainKitten

@Gamma: You do note that Vezok is voting me, right? Further, what reason have I to believe DTM? I've had suspicions from the start about the function of his role. Why would scum hammer if they weren't sure? I can't imagine they'd make that bet.

Further, I questioned you because you disappeared. I actually suspect Socio is Vezok's scumbuddy at this juncture, but my questions led me there.

Vezok voting UK had nothing to do with what I said.

She's STILL not recognizing that if she's town me-scum would have to be with DTMaster and ONLY DTMaster despite me pointing it out. (3 scum remaining means I could hammer and win anyway, if DT is lying he's scum period)

And it still looks like she's posting for the sake of posting instead of actually scumhunting (probably since she thinks she's going to die anyway)


Aaaaand DT was apparently here but didn't post. If he had something important enough to say that it was worth holding the hammer a bit for it he should have Come in and Said So.

It's Lynchin' times.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree that a lying DT would make him scum. You're rather foolish to ignore that gaps.

Also, three scum remaining wouldn't happen. I don't understand where you get that.

Well, whatever. Enjoy your loss.

[Gammagooey]

...Seriously?

Lying as town about that is out of the question. He could have easily been the lynch earlier on to avoid the extra night penalty and all it would have done is fuck the town out of a mislynch.

AS A SIDE NOTE.
if DT has a chance of lying as town like you think.
Then why do we lose? :3

[SocioPath]

Vezok is most likely the play tomorrow, based on the NK.

[Faraday]

Vote count 4.6 - end of day votecount
Vezokpiraka (2)

UncertainKitten, AlmasterGM

UncertainKitten(4)

Jahudo, Veokpiraka, Sociopath Gammagoeey

Not voting (1):

DTMaster

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline's the 30th @ 8pm GMT
[/i]

UncertainKitten was drowned in a barrel. Like all cats should be. Meow.

UncertainKitten aka

Kristoph Gavin Mafia Goon

was lynched day 4.

It's now Night 4, get your actions in within 48 hours

[Faraday]

Day 5 dawned with everyone waking up. Well not everyone actually, someone had died. That someone was Sociopath. He'd been VICIOUSLY KILLED.

Sociopath -

Shadi Enigmar Vanilla Townie

was killed night 4.

It's now Day 5, with 5 alive it take 3 to lynch

[Jahudo]

Vote: DTMaster

I don't think there's anything else to say today. We could try and pick a scummiest player but if we're wrong and DTM is town, we'd probably be screwed. I think we should play it safe.

4 person mafia seems really unlikely based on the low power of the town that we've seen so far (if DTM is telling the truth). So I think we're destined for a 3 person lylo tomorrow, and massclaim would be best saved for then too.

[DTMaster]

Wat. Why did SP die? WHHHHHRRRY. The NK WIFOM was correct though. I mean, like I expected that if I didn't die Gamma should have died. NK WIFOM IS KILLING MY BRAIN. Allow me to get my words before we lynch me.

[DTMaster]

Quick skim points towards AGM and Vezok based on yesterday play. I'll have words from there.

Paranoia wild card makes me distrust Gamma. Logic based on yesterday's wagon points to AGM since scum would have won assuming Vezok town. This means that it was the end game stages for scum's POV yesterday assuming Vezok-town.

Crazy theory: Both Vezok and UK were scum and bused for lulz.

Anyone claim to be neighbors with the man? He didn't claim one shot, and since he neighboured scum I'd expect someone to be with him now.

[DTMaster]

Ihmo UK wouldn't reveal her scum buddy directly. But her interactions with AGM support the distancing theory. Linking SP to Vezok reveals her plan of attack for mislynches based on a SP flip. I think AGM is the man. I need to finish my reread since I recall that I didn't finish my response to the man.

I find it funny that UK attacked everyone in her defense. Note to self: Look at the interactions between UK and AGM. My gut leads me there.

[DTMaster]

Also 4p mafia would have shot me and won since it would have decreased the town number down to 4 rather then 5 from the night action turn over (2 scum left, do the math). It's clear, 3 p mafia is what we are dealing with.

[Gammagooey]

Vote: DTMaster

I don't think there's anything else to say today. We could try and pick a scummiest player but if we're wrong and DTM is town, we'd probably be screwed. I think we should play it safe.

4 person mafia seems really unlikely based on the low power of the town that we've seen so far (if DTM is telling the truth). So I think we're destined for a 3 person lylo tomorrow, and massclaim would be best saved for then too.

Prrretty much this exactly. I still don't think he'll flip scum despite his complete nonappearance yesterday since his BP claim would be a pretty shitty gambit but it's not worth the risk of leaving him alive for no benefit except his continued wordage.

Vote: DTMaster

^L-1

[vezokpiraka]

Eh. I forgot to neighbourize anyone last night.

Maybe this night.

I guess I'll wait for DTM than hammer.

[AlmasterGM]

Please don't shot me. I have a sweet role and I don't want to get shot. And I don't want Fate to get shot either.

NICE USE OF THAT SWEET ROLE YOU GOT THERE.

I agree with DTM on vezok/UK bussing. This is fucking ridiculous. How are we supposed to read you if you hardly ever post content and don't even bother to use your supposed PR?

[Jahudo]

Wat. Why did SP die? WHHHHHRRRY. The NK WIFOM was correct though. I mean, like I expected that if I didn't die Gamma should have died. NK WIFOM IS KILLING MY BRAIN. Allow me to get my words before we lynch me.

If you + Socio had been NK'ed, I think we would have no lynched with 4p and gone for the 3-person lylo anyway. So I don't think scum passing on DTM means much.

Paranoia wild card makes me distrust Gamma. Logic based on yesterday's wagon points to AGM since scum would have won assuming Vezok town. This means that it was the end game stages for scum's POV yesterday assuming Vezok-town.

In this case I think it would depend on Gamma-scum's idea of who you were going to vote for. You held off voting and didn't mention UK much; only called vezok a person of interest so with Socio and I being very clear who we preferred it might have looked unlikely to lynch vezok-town. This scenario looks plausible, but so does scum thinking you would have preferred a vezok lynch over a UK one. Unless I'm missing something in your ISO.

Crazy theory: Both Vezok and UK were scum and bused for lulz.

If that's true then UK felt vezok was too much of a liability, because she didn't start out the day with any backup suspects while vezok did (Socio and me). I don't think she mentioned any suspicion of either of us until we attacked her, so she probably didn't plan on agree with vezok there. Now maybe she would have bussed to avoid being lynched in the future, I could also see that as a possibility. But what is the meaning behind her not having a backup suspect already? That's a mystery to me.

Ihmo UK wouldn't reveal her scum buddy directly. But her interactions with AGM support the distancing theory. Linking SP to Vezok reveals her plan of attack for mislynches based on a SP flip. I think AGM is the man. I need to finish my reread since I recall that I didn't finish my response to the man.

I find it funny that UK attacked everyone in her defense. Note to self: Look at the interactions between UK and AGM. My gut leads me there.

It is interesting that she ended the day by pressuring the only one who joined her on the vezok wagon. Maybe at 2 votes to 3 she sensed a greater chance of herself getting lynched, and had to scramble. Although if vezok was scum and she thought he could still be lynched, maybe she was setting up AGM as the buddy. This also depends on whether scum thought DTM was going to vote UK or vezok.

[DTMaster]

1. Jahduo. Scum passing on me means lots since UK suspected that I lied. There's this awesome Fate gambit done in this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14737 - It's Always Sunny Mafia

Fate claimed Beloved Princess when he was a Bullet Proof role. Hint hint hint. Fake claim gambit. It also means that they rather use me as a mislynch rather then gamble at the chance that I lied.

2. You know something's been bothering me with the Vezok/UK bussing theory. Logically, if this was true, I'd expect UK to live rather then Vezok in terms of reputation and posting ability. What I'm more worried about now is giving Vezok the hammer tomorrow rather then thinking he's scum. He's just the perfect townie for scum in my honest opinion. The whole Vezok/UK argument dynamic doesn't make sense for scum bussing each other. Especially since we should be thinking in terms of yesterday:

7 Players 2:5 scum:town. If we mislynched and they shot me, it would go to 2:4 -> 2:3- > 2:2. Yesterday is instant scum win assuming Vezok-town. And My gut says Vezok is town.
There's no statistical difference between shoot me/lynching me if we did lynch scum, (1:5 -> 1:4 -> 1:3 assuming I died or 1:5 -> 1:4). Scum still gets 3 SCUM DERIVED KILLS. This will be important in the end game to note.

Now for the Gamma angle.

[DTMaster]

Also I find the lack of multi scum hunting disturbing. Jahduo gets lots of points for that. In my original list I had a scum-gut feeling about you, but you're the only one at the moment that's scumhunting.

[DTMaster]

Gamma angle is just, ehhhh reads as obvious town. Hence the super wildcard. If Gamma is scum, I'll eat my hat (hehehehehehe remembers my first newbie game)

AGM. ZOMG I HAS RESPONSES. RESPOND NAO.

1.

I already answered this: cause magnus was acting scummy. And if you want to get technical and say, "oh, well if it's VV vs magnus who is worse," then that is a math question because it requires being comparative which I admitted I did not have time to do at the time.

Way back when I asked about M_O and why he had to deconstruct his cases for you. You do realize I wasn't talking about why it's VV vs M_O. I was trying to ask you. Back here:

If you're not holding him accountable for not posting, and there aren't any arguments against him because he hasn't posted, then HOW IS HE[Rhino] POSSIBLY SCUMMIER THAN VV. Especially when you haven't even DECONSTRUCTED THE VV CASE, so you don't even have anything to be comparative with.

I wanted to ask you why did M_O had to deconstruct two cases (Rhino and VV) to get his one case (Rhino) across? If you thought M_O was scummy, I can show you that you tied it largely to his lack of case breaking on VV. I don't understand why you made it into a: it must be RHINO OR VV and YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH SINCE YOU NEED TO DEFEND VV TO ATTACK RHINO.

There's no reasoning behind this. This reads as huge smokes and mirrors to drag M_O down into the pit while answering a bunch of questions defensively. Why this type of questioning? How does this question produce the results for your scum hunting so you can tell us that you thought M_O was scum at the time.

2.

Yes, VV has a history of sucking, but I also explained why what VV was doing wasn't just his usual suck-age - it had clear scum motivation. IN RETROSPECT HE HE ACTUALLY WAS JUST SUCKING AS USUAL, but at the time, it looked legit.

Are you talking about this game? Or last game with VV?

Break times.

[DTMaster]

BAH TAGS.

[DTMaster]

Bahhhh the too stupid to be true argument just entered my head. WHHHHRRRRYYYYYYY must this be complicated.

[Jahudo]

True, maybe scum thought you had fakeclaimed, DTM. UK had even been hinting she didn't fully believe you, so its possible she was hoping you'd be lynched before you had to be NK'ed. If that's true, then maybe she didn't think a townie lynch yesterday would guarantee a scum victory. So if she bussed yesterday, that's one possible reason why.

But its hard to overlook how vezok would have been the ideal mislynch yesterday. Someone who didn't defend themselves, talked rarely but exuded anti-towniness.

[Gammagooey]

Eh.

I don't want to get into my Personal opinions on who's the best lynch tommorrow but I think you guys could use some devil's advocate in here.

In regards to UK bussing/not bussing Vezok- UK was going after Vezok for most of the day Before LYLO as well as the day of, including stating that she was hammering Elli as a compromise and that she wanted Vezok dead the next day- if it started out as just distancing from vezok she may have thought she couldn't pull off an opinion change convincingly once LYLO actually arrived.

In regards to multiscum shenanigans- I don't get why the lack of it is disturbing at all: the only 2nd kill was explained by the claimed and then flipped one-shot vig, and Rhino's flip of

Mafia Goon

had no qualifier like Villan mafia or prosecutor mafia that would suggest there are two different groups.

[DTMaster]

Um... Spyrex claimed the second kill Gamma. He claimed 1 shot vig. You're talking about a

third kill

and multiscum why?

[DTMaster]

Gammakitty - So you think UK is bussing. And you think Vezok is scum righttttt??????

[DTMaster]

I'm kind of shocked UK got lynched over Vezok. I think being away and this fast game might have changed something.