Mini 1095 - Fast Food Mafia - Game Over

[lewarcher82]

and how about peanut's 92? He criticised the miller's claim, and then he pushed CD to claim... isn't this a scumtell to you?

[StrangerCoug]

That's not how I see that post; from what I understand, peanutman is questioning why CooLDoG soft-claimed. Although the miller claim gets mentioned, I don't see where peanutman is doubting that Thestatusquo is a miller.

[lewarcher82]

I misread post 46. My apologies. Happy new year. Dinner's ready.

[Purple Orange]

Mkay. Hullo, folks.

TSQ - Townread on him, due to the fact that he didn't buckle on the refusal to give flavor, and that he's done a decent amount of careful scumhunting.

EC - argument with TSQ looked persistent and genuine. Leaning slightly town on him; later posts haven't had anything yet that inclined me to change my mind.

CoolDog - Pretty sure someone already noted this, but his pigheaded persistence and tenacity (however misguided) in pushing the flavor claim make me go with a VI town read on him over scum/third party. Play is stupid regardless of alignment, but I think that alignment is probably town.

Battousi - ConfidAnon, who Battousi replaced, did NOT read town. Backtracking in 160, boredom-vote in 173, plus I don't like his case on AntB in 123 and 129. But Batt's done solid scumhunting, and his "assume two people are town" deal struck me as aggressive and ambitious townplay. So leaning town on this slot. (If AntB flips town, I may have to reevaluate this).

lewarcher, raj, Magua -- currently null. Of note: Snake (lew's) "pressure vote" on cooldog in 140 is awful. If one of them flips scum, other highly suspect.

AntB - I'm willing to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to his more cautious play, as his join date says he's newer to the site, and as I've had playstyle tendencies that way as well. The first couple pages read like a reasoned and genuine caution about voting, and not a cop-out, especially as he stuck to his position even when pushed about it. Which is why ConfidAnon's attack on him actually struck me as scummier than Ant's own posts (interpreted it as possible scum going after the easy mark of a person who didn't match up with site meta). My issue with AntB is that he eventually buckled on his stance, and cast a non-vote of a vote (#133) to get people off his back. NOT GOOD, and an indication he was scum just trying to avoid votes and a lynch (while still managing to avoid committing to anything at that point).

Also, what's with saying this:

I'm also getting a VI vibe from CooLDoG so I'm going to say NOT lynch him, let the scum get him and potentially save other power roles. Unless the Doc covers him then D2 will be interesting...

..and then leaving you vote on the guy? Did you just forget to take it off or something? :/ Most recently he's read town, though. More aggressive, willing to take a concrete stance, actively pushing cases. Between that, and my initial townread on him, I'd prefer not to lynch him today, despite these two things that give me a bit of pause.

InHim, StrangerCoug, and Chronopie in next post.

[Zang]

Votecount-

Chronopie - 3 - (InHimshallibe, StrangerCoug, Purple Orange) (L-4)
InHimshallibe - 1 - (AntB) (L-6)
CooLDoG - 1 - (Chronopie) (L-6)
AntB - 4 - (EtherealCookie, rajrhcpfreak, CooLDoG, lewarcher82) (L-3)
StrangerCoug - 3 - (Battousai, Magua, Thestatusquo) (L-4)

7 needed to lynch

Deadline is January 4 at 3:15 pm EST

[Purple Orange]

InHim

- Half the time I read his posts as scum looking to avoid accountability, half the time as terse and aggressive town. But then he's forced to admit he had zero case against AntB (385), and was piggybacking other's suspicions, which currently tips me to the scum side of things. Still pretty uncertain on him, but I wouldn't be wholly averse to a lynch on him today.

StrangerCoug

Most of his posts I get a null read, but his multiple caseless trial-balloon and suspicion-sowing posts about people I read as scum:

Thestatusquo is starting to bug me now.

The more I think about CooLDoG now, the less I like him.

TSQ, stop lurking. I hope some of you have noticed that he has dropped off the radar as of late (unless he posted v/la, in which case it is my bad)

I don't remember him posting after shifting my attention to you. Hmm...

Claiming right off the bat is correct miller play, but from our perspective it's a double-edged sword—is this really a miller or scum that wants to scare off the cop? I say we watch closely to make sure no shenanigans happen, but we are not to auto-assume scum.

^This last one isn't quite as blatant, but TSQ's comment that "at the same time he says we should leave me alone right now he poisons my well like woah" is correct.

I'm not completely sold on role-flavor argument; while Coug's position may be hair-splitting, it's not contradictory. I

can

certainly interpret his shifting of votes opportunistic, though, and the above stuff doesn't incline me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Would a townie of decent skill want Ythan to nameclaim (enough to pressure vote), but be adamant against a flavor claim and vote whoever is pushing it? Maybe, but I think it is still a bit opportunistic (which would imply CoolDog is town and SC is scum).

Can you clarify this, please? Are you saying that a push for a name-claim and a push for a full flavor-claim are close enough to one another that hair-splitting between them like he did, and voting for someone for pushing for a full claim instead of a partial claim, is opportunistic and scummy? (Particularly after he voted for someone to pressure a name claim from them?)

ChronoPie

Has contributed only occasional weak reads, extremely limited scumhunting, and basically managed to lurk his way through the entire game. His one case (if it can be called such) is on CoolDog, and he's maintained a vote on him the entire whole round...even when, in 180, he says that he thinks CoolDog is a VI.

Cooldog's joint claim of KFC was pointless. As we already knew that power (if you have one) was associated with role. VI.

Or are you saying he's scum-VI?

This post is also where he says he doesn't have much to say, after a LOT has recently gone down in the round. Not even an update on the "Cooldog vs. Coug: one-is-scum" thing he sort of implies in ISO 6, but never bothers to flesh out in any meaningful way. Following 180, next post with any sort of content from him is 274, where he mentions he thinks AntB is town, but gives no reason why. (338 finally includes one-sentence reasons for his positions on Ant and inHim).

Then there's this:

And it's more Apathy than any real intent to cruise. Parroting is purely unintentional, and I like to have some NA's to work with before I get into the swing of the game.

I do think my predecessor had a point when he listed apathy and not-caring as indicative of scum. Town has next to no information at the start of Day 1, and bothering to push cases on people is pretty much the only way to get it.

Really dislike the non-vote on Coug. I'll label them a possible scumpair.

What do you mean by this? That he's keeping his vote on CoolDog instead of moving to StrangerCoug?

I've

have

noticed SC is one of the couple of people he tends to mention. He waffles around a bit about him, inbetween defense of one of SC's actions in in ISO 6, then distancing (but not voting) for him in later posts, even when his declared suspicion of CoolDog goes down.


Chron's the one of these three I'm most convinced is scum, at the moment. SC a close second.

Confirm Vote: Chronopie

[lewarcher82]

Hello purple, and Happy New Year glad you joined the game.

I partly agree about SC. I also get a nullread. Still, sowing susp can be a scumtell or a towntell: depends on the meta, and I have never played with SC before.

Regarding information, what lynch do you think would be the more informative? If Chrono flips scum/town, what conclusions can we get about other players? I ask, because if SC flipped scum, I think CoolDog would get towncred, amirite?

[AntB]

3 Days left, we need to choose a wagon to push to completion. My vote may as well be standing spare right now. I'll place it on whatever wagon picks up to prevent no-lynch, as I'm otherwise undecided between SC's opportunism and CPs lurking.

[Battousai]

Purple Orange- I find the difference (in relation to the amount it helps scum in this game) to be little to none. From that it is contradictory for him to rally for one and then calling the other scummy. I find it opportunistic as well as the CD wagon was an easy one to join (IIRC, he was the 3rdish on the wagon).

[lewarcher82]

3 Days left, we need to choose a wagon to push to completion. My vote may as well be standing spare right now. I'll place it on whatever wagon picks up to prevent no-lynch, as I'm otherwise undecided between SC's opportunism and CPs lurking.

Unacceptable. We still have 2 players who need replacement. Even if they join today, they could hardly catch up. We need that extension and I am sure that the mod will decide to grant it.

At the moment, I find it hard to pick a wagon. I do not see any change in Ant's behaviour (I found him scummy and I still do, but not TERRIBLY scummy): since the wagon never took off, he had no reason to make a real defense. I cannot take a position on SC: he did not strike me as scummy at first, but now I see some of the points raised by Battousai. Still, I must also note that Battousai seems to be REALLY aggressive against SC, so aggressive that he even attacks a "mmh". As I said, SC is a big player, and I never played against him. Some points against him may be convincing, but I would like someone who knows him to comment on his meta. Chrono did very little so far, and he definitely *could* be lazy scum.

Any of these lynches would be informative, since all these players have been accused and all of them have been defended.

I will re-read Battousai's ISO and cast a vote in my next post.

[Purple Orange]

Hello purple, and Happy New Year glad you joined the game.

I partly agree about SC. I also get a nullread. Still, sowing susp can be a scumtell or a towntell: depends on the meta, and I have never played with SC before.

Happy New Year to you, too.

Given he did it so many times this round, I guess it could just be playstyle -- but I think it's a scummy playstyle if it

is

one. Fourth one may be simple cautionary sowing of suspicion, but the other three do nothing but invite other people to make a case for him (or go "what the heck are you talking about?" in which case you might as well just make a case in the first place). I kinda wanted to go cold turkey on meta after that last round, but it's a pretty cut and dry thing to search for, so I'll go trawling to set my own mind at rest if no one shows up with a shortcut answer.

Regarding information, what lynch do you think would be the more informative? If Chrono flips scum/town, what conclusions can we get about other players? I ask, because if SC flipped scum, I think CoolDog would get towncred, amirite?

I'm not seeing how SC-scum would give towncred to CoolDog - help?

I think either Chrono or SC being scum would imply scum on the other. Haven't worked through the implications of what a townflip would imply. SC's had more interactions with people than Chrono; we'd probably glean more from his lynch than Chrono's. inHim's interactions with players other than AntB have been limited. I actually think AntB's entangled with the most people, and would give the most information of anyone. Given the way Chrono, SC, and inHim's votes currently lie, I sort of doubt they are all on a scum team together, which is not to say they couldn't still all be bad guys of some sort anyway. That's about the extent that I've thought through this so far -- I don't usually put too much effort into drawing connections between people until after someone has actually flipped. (And I'm unsure how much the lynch decision should be based on pragmatic "it'll give us the most information (even if he flips town)" reasons vs. "this guy's the scummiest" reasons).

[Purple Orange]

At the moment, I find it hard to pick a wagon. I do not see any change in Ant's behaviour (I found him scummy and I still do, but not TERRIBLY scummy): since the wagon never took off, he had no reason to make a real defense.

What makes you read his recent posting as scummy?

(IIRC, he was the 3rdish on the wagon).

Yep, he was 3rd. (Is it common practice to move a replacement player's vote to the end of the line? I see the logic in it, I think).

[StrangerCoug]

(Is it common practice to move a replacement player's vote to the end of the line? I see the logic in it, I think).

By default, no, but players commonly unvote when replacing in while they catch up with reading.

[Zang]

yabbaguy replaces Thestatusquo

[StrangerCoug]

Thestatusquo was being replaced? I must have missed/forgotten that.

Ah, well, yabbaguy's experienced too.

[AntB]

Unacceptable. We still have 2 players who need replacement. Even if they join today, they could hardly catch up. We need that extension and I am sure that the mod will decide to grant it.

We have a deadline, and we must work to it. It's not ideal and I hope we do get an extension, however, for now we should assume we haven't and act accordingly, pushing for a lynch. Whose to say the extension won't only be 2 days, if we do get one? We need to utilise the time we have to prepare wagons and let the new guy(s) decide when (s)he/they catch up, which is the greater threat. My wagon and chronopies are currently the strongest, SC still has a good weight on him. Either way, 3 votes are needed to end this, and I count 2 worthless votes at the moment (mine included) and I'm pretty sure everyone has voted. So we need to figure out which wagon is rolling out of here and people need to shift votes so we can get a lynch.

As I said previously, I'm undecided between CPs lurking and SCs opportunism...

[yabbaguy]

Hello everyone. I'll get to reading in a sec, apparently we're under time pressure, so I won't take too long.

The claim remains Miller.

[yabbaguy]

Wow... I didn't expect to get the role that set off a primary debate in the game. However, TSQ's stance in terms of the Miller debate and whether I should open up are completely understandable. I really only found a few things that actually got my attention:

I really gleam nothing scummy from the Miller debacle. CooLDoG was a pain in the ass, but I don't really see a scum motivation for wanting to intensely fish and peck at him like that. I think it's just a suboptimal Town strategy to relentlessly tunnel on a lynch like that. From what he's claimed, just because he's deemed a greasy, unhealthy institution is little different from the other fast food institutions.

StrangerCoug is odd, odd, odd in this game, and it hurts thinking what he could be. He's dangling a lot of worms such as "I'm starting to not like TSQ", "The more I think about CooLDoG, the less I like him", with no real effect. It could be that he's just horribly confused, though, consistent with his general mannerism, so that's what's my making my head itch. It's a scum-tilt here, though.

peanutman is as square as square can get "what are you doing? Why would you soft-claim like that?" , so at *first* I think he's a good little Townie, but then THIS comes up:

First of all, I feel that CoolDog is either VI (for soft-claiming simply to get TSQ to reveal his establishment) or 3rd party.

Pity he's not here. I'm curious what he possibly could have been thinking writing that.

I've had a look at ChronoPie since he's up there on the vote count, and I'm not seeing what people are seeing. Again, he's perpetually scummy-looking, and I can't see anything exceptional that he's doing that suggests scumminess beyond his general lurkiness. I'll table this one.

AntB has been big time fencesitting, I agree with that, and the fact that he immediately jumped to "CooLDoG is 3rd party" was VERY, VERY weird. The inHim fight is throttling my mind, but I think it's just a matter of giddiness when someone is just tunneling on you. I've been there, it's understandable, but I also think it could happen to either alignment. His general mannerisms just seem opportunistic to jab at anything, and I'll cite examples later if need be.

Unvote, Vote: AntB

[Magua]

Hello everyone. I'll get to reading in a sec, apparently we're under time pressure, so I won't take too long.

The claim remains Miller.

Ummm....why *wouldn't* it remain miller?

That just seems an awkward thing to say.

For the record, I don't see a SC/Chronopie scumteam.

I favor the lynch in this order: StrangerCoug first, Chronopie second, AntB last.

[yabbaguy]

Ummm....why *wouldn't* it remain miller?

...uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I don't know either. *shrug*

[AntB]

Looks like its going to be my wagon then.
I "sat on the fence" because I wasn't moved enough and didn't see enough reason to vote; CooLDoG is 3rd Party at best, scum at worst; inHim is scum, he even admitted he had no case on me.

I'm going to move and VOTE: Chronopie for his lurking, also placing him at L-2.

Choose carefully people...

[CooLDoG]

Sory that I couldn't post yesterday. I will have a post latter! I'm caught up in the holidays......

[lewarcher82]

Looks like its going to be my wagon then.
I "sat on the fence" because I wasn't moved enough and didn't see enough reason to vote; CooLDoG is 3rd Party at best, scum at worst; inHim is scum, he even admitted he had no case on me.

I'm going to move and VOTE: Chronopie for his lurking, also placing him at L-2.

Choose carefully people...

Put someone at L-2 for lurking? Would a townie do that?

[AntB]

We need a competing wagon and I'm hardly going to vote for myself am I?

[lewarcher82]

nice, so we have competing wagon. How will chrono comment your vote? How will SC comment it? I wait for them to react.