Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[Lateralus22]

Mod: When's the deadline?

[The Eruci]

There currently is no deadline, but we'll set a tentative date for January 13th. UnofficialRulerOfEveryone is currently being replaced, but no replacement has been found yet.

[popsofctown]

I volunteer to play two roles at once

[diddin]

When either everyone nominates or deadline approaches, I will shoot on who has plurality.

@WC: How is tunnel vision a scumtell? How am I tunneling on you?

[implosion]

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work

The Tree Stump has to declare being the Tree Stump in order for it to go into effect; certainly, it eliminates a vote, but it's D1 for crying out loud.

Yes, which is more of a reason not to declare it.

Why does everyone keep misunderstanding my ability.... I'm unlynchable and voteless, not kill-immune, and it isn't activated, it's passive. I don't have to declare that I'm the treestump.

- 333, potential VI filtered out of the group. Doesn't appear as if we've lost anything but a number. I like to look at it as a good thing. Sure, it's one less townie, but it's also one less vote to lynch D1; which is the greater asset for town? The latter looks much better to me. Moving on.

How does one less vote to lynch on d1 help the town?

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

At this point, I wouldn't support a vigshot on WC. He

really

looks like an easy target for scum to pressure, and I think he's town at this point, particularly from his recent posts. The same goes for Helghast - some of his behavior is strange, but I don't see it as more likely to come from scum than to come from town (he's null). I don't see anything particularly scummy from either of them. If I could vote right now, it'd be on tmh. I'll also nominate him for vigging.

I'm also suspicious of ckd at this point. I mean... the word "eruci" was kind of bright green in AntB's flip. I find it a bit odd that he supposedly misread it as "mod." He didn't notice the thing with nonstandard abilities, thinking that it was a possible breaking strategy... but again, it's a bit odd that he didn't notice this. It could have been an attempt to do something that looked really protown (finding a breaking strategy) while in reality he knew it wouldn't work.

Etherial Cookie is a null read for me. I wouldn't be opposed to a kill on him. I wouldn't be strongly opposed to a kill on Helghast. I would be opposed to a kill on WC at this point.

[popsofctown]

The wiki is god implosion.

[diddin]

Ummmm... no. It's possible that the Mod used a variation on the Tree Stump ability for this game. The Wiki is not always going to be correct.

[popsofctown]

no ask chkflip about it the wiki is god

[The Eruci]

StrangerCoug replaces UnofficialRulerOfEveryone, effective immediately.

Happy New Year everyone!

[diddin]

no ask chkflip about it the wiki is god

i lol'd

[StrangerCoug]

Hello

It'll probably be morning before I give this game any sort of a proper readthrough (I got up early and probably won't stay up for the new year to come around in my time zone), so bear with me. While you wait for me, though, could I have everybody's top three picks for scum and why?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Rather large catch-up post incoming ….

Parama’s

WIFOM at 147 I really don’t like.

I Am’s

sequence of posts in the early 180s regarding EC’s attack on Parama exactly mimics what I thought as I read along. He earns a rare Town read for that from me for that reason.

@I Am re 366

– Why didn’t you address Pops’s confusion about alignment in the same post.

TMH

shortly after I Am also mimics my thoughts but doesn’t earn as much goodwill as I Am had already laid out that logic in thread before TMH’s post.

TMH

earns further Town read from me for 191.

Narsis’s 226

earns a large scumdar hit. EC has come under some pressure and suddenly Narsis is getting scum-vibes that he can’t explain regarding EC.

Pops’ 188

rings my scum-dar for lurker hunting (Longing) and continuing with an unproductive thought process on Cycling Powers.

Pops and Chkflip’s

back to back attacks on TMH for Chainsawing starting at 396 lead me to believe that the probably aren’t scum together. That would be pretty blatant Scum buddying Scum action right there

Chkflip’s

hop onto Wrathchild following Parama’s lead pings my scumdar.

Chkflip’s

later input which amounts to ‘Why don’t you know about a Treestump based on your join date’ isn’t even closely related to scum-hunting.

Chkflips

is guilty at 363 of a similar crime to Narsis – stating someone is scummy but being unable to articulate any reason at all why.

Chekflip’s

soft defense of Narsis hidden in his attack on Nero Cain at 417 is noted for future reference.

I don’t like that Diddin claimed under zero pressure. That he did so as a Dayvig makes me wonder the following –

Diddin– does your dayvig power require you to post in thread to activate?

Powerrox’s 168

where he votes Parama based on ‘believing Muh’, who had zero valid reasons to support his Parama is scum statement, is scumtastic. The return to said vote at 408 leads me to believe you are an _I. Further evidence will sway me as to whether the blank should be filled with a V or an S.

The last paragraph of

RedCoyote’s 174

reads as fencesitting. He doesn’t find Wrath scummy but agrees with Diddin’s ‘not revoting’ tell. Also, diddin’s Town read on Parama is more troubling than the scum-tell he just said is valid. Seems very much composed to fall either way on both Diddin and Wrath.

@Lat22 re 326

– Why restrict the list of Top Candidates to a set list of players?

It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/

No it is not anti-Town the entire game. The ability to publicly pass it for several days gives us solid sets of X and Y are not scum together data. If you insist on looking at the downsides long-term at least consider the positives generated along the way.

No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches.

So you would rather eliminate a Cycling ability before any Paired Relational information could be generated or before it could be passed to a Townie who could Dayvig scum-Diddin?

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game.

Then either your reading comprehension is bad or this is a scum-motivated post. You claim an ability AFTER you pass it. And the abilities worked just the same in the last game.

I'm more suspicious of you. You didn't bother to seek a clarification on your abilities, which you should've done if you were town. Instead, you passed it off to somebody, continuously posted short one-liners, and got that person killed. P.S. He's town!

Horrible argument. Muh acknowledged in the thread that he had received the ‘Bomb’. He clearly had the chance to pass it and screwed up thinking the thread would not move so fast. So attacking Parama for moving the thread to detonation when he could not be sure that muh had not passed it is scummy.

Yes. Hold onto it, and pass it to someone who genuinely thought was scummy. Just like his WrathChild vote, he is simply tossing out crappy reasons to kill people. He did it with a bomb, now he wants to do it with a lynch.

How do you know he didn’t find muh scummy?

I saw that Diddin (I think that was who, I'll double check) had put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further. I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him at the moment

So you were managing how people would perceive you by not voting for Diddin for fear of it being labelled OMGUS. Do you think site meta indicates OMGUS is a scum-tell?

- I reeeeaaalllly don't like the fact that Parama has evaded this question, no matter how small it seems to be. Tells me something... something scummy. FoS!~

UNVOTE because my read has since nullified. I'm tempted to vote diddin, as I find him scummy, but I'll wait until I post again to lay a vote alongside my own portion to the scumcase.

This sequence is scummy. He finds Parama’s dodging of a question, no matter how inconsequential scummy enough to warrant an FOS. Then he immediately unvotes whatever vote was floating around and says diddin is scummy but will withhold a vote until later.

I don’t find unvoting without revoting necessarily scummy if you don’t have another candidate. Here ck has two and doesn’t vote for either.

I'm liking MoI's guidelines, but I feel that he is a good enough player to have this pre-made regardless of alignment, and adapt it to how the gameflow is going.

Of course I had those guidelines fleshed out before the game started. I played in Mini 1040 and thus learned the strengths and weaknesses of Cycling abilities there. You said you skimmed 1040. Why didn’t you assume I didn’t use my pre-knowledge in forming my plan?

Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.

So you would push for a proven Dayvig power to be lynched based on him not following orders when –

1. If he is Scum he MUST pass it to someone other than his own partners
2. If he is Town Scum has to use their NK to eliminate it if they don’t think he will pass it to them
3. Whoever Diddin would pass it to would provide Mafia Pairing elimination
4. Lynching said proven Cycling power assures it is taken out of the game

[MagnaofIllusion]

TL : DR Summary of said above posts –

My top scum candidates as of now are Pops, Chkflip EC, and Narsis

Pops mainly has been pushing for the absolute direction of the Dayvig with lynching as the alternative. I don’t like that. Diddin being directed by ‘Town’ removes his culpability for the act if he vigs a bad target. Regardless of Town’s majority steering towards a weak Town player is easily achievable by Scum under the guise of ‘Town’ guidance.

Pops also gets plenty of scum credit for early lurker hunting (The Longing) and pushing two weak, newer players as prime Vig targets.

Finally we have the continued push to eliminate a claimed Cycling ability in Implosion’s treestump citing LYLO fear-mongering when the information upside to keeping it is rather large.

Chkflip has been fairly active but avoided any semblance of scum-hunting for a significant amount of time. Posts 176 and 363 are also scum-motivated posts.

EC’s attack on Parama has been correctly pointed out multiple times as scummy and poorly put together. After that his ISO is fairly devoid of scum-hunting.

Narsis is some sort of Idiot (in the VI / SI sense). 226 is very scummy.

VOTE: Pops

I personally would like to see any of those four Dayvigged. Narsis would probably be the best choice as low-content players are always better Vig targets than higher content scummy players.

[diddin]

Yeah I need to post inthread to activate my kill.

[quadz08]

Hey, sorry I haven't been on in a while. I'll do a catch-up post soon. My apologies.

[StrangerCoug]

Here's everything up until I stopped on page 10. I do not proclaim to have gotten everything important, so if I missed anything on which you want my opinion, speak up.

I'm going to start by answering my own question: quadz08 and Powerrox93 for their crap cases on Parama and EtherealCookie for how he started the game. (If there are any other responses to my question, I have yet to read them.)

Parama, 5: Ooh! Interesting way to start the game.
Parama, 8: So that's what it does. OK, I believe that.
muh316, 20: Uhh, hello? Parama claims a hot potato and you open with that? What's wrong with you?
EtherealCookie, 23: Why are you random voting when you're clearly adding to meaningful discussion?
implosion, 31: Treestump is an ability we want to be careful not giving to scum, especially in LYLO.
I Am Innocent, 34: "Too sane"? This screams a lot like the "too townie" fallacy.
muh316, end of page 4: Why am I not surprised?
implosion, 51: xD
quadz08, 78: That's actually a lame reason to vote Parama.
popsofctown, 99: I see his thinking, but I disagree that it dents Parama any.
MagnaofIllusion, 109: I like the beginning of this post.
The Eruci, 153: Aww... muh316 was town
Powerrox93, 168: You're just going to vote Parama based on muh316's statements when the latter has done nothing useful? Come the hell on!
Saint, 222: You do realize that, if this made an ounce of sense, curiouskarmadog would replace out after getting your answer, right?
diddin, 238: Who is Heidi Montag?

[StrangerCoug]

Page 11 onward. Again, I don't claim to have everything important.

diddin, 274: I almost had a "what the hell" moment reading this. On closer inspection, that does remove the risk of scum having the stump in LYLO.
Saint, 290 and 291: Not liking these posts here (ad hom and a false OMGUS accusation respectively—in my book, a legitimate case back doesn't count as OMGUS).
diddin, 305: Regarding your first sentence, I think it is—that looks far out of place coming from Vi. I'm not familiar with Furcolow, but I

HAVE

heard he has a bad reputation.
AntB, 311: *headdesk*
Nero Cain, 343: Spoiler text is usually illegal...
I Am Innocent, 366: I gave this some thought, and it would very much make sense for scum to lapse on the name of the town faction. diddin should shoot curiouskarmadog.
popsofctown, 396: xD
Helghast, 416: The second paragraph stands out, but I'll pass that off as a newb tell. Please do input your opinion every day, though.

I specifically want CKD dayvigged because that enables us to continue to scumhunt while taking care of a scum slip. Therefore, I am going to go for my read from the first half of the game and VOTE: quadz08.

[Parama]

Parama’s

WIFOM at 147 I really don’t like.

^This is a scum claim.
Because scum know there's no counter-argument to that incredible WIFOM - regardless of what you think, my stances on it are the only ones that make sense. And he doesn't like it because he can't use it to push a crap case on me.

Thanks Magna, I'll get you after Wrath...
...and I need to reread this game because I only have 2 scum reads atm. Sigh. This game.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, I admit that more of my PBPA is from the beginning of the game than from the end of the game (as if it's not obvious by the second post being shorter). If you need to reread the game, go straight ahead.

I like your point against MagnaofIllusion, if that's any consolation.

[WrathChild]

When either everyone nominates or deadline approaches, I will shoot on who has plurality.

@WC: How is tunnel vision a scumtell? How am I tunneling on you?

Scum are more likely to pick a target and go after them without really considering subsequent points or actions. Town tends to be more open minded due to their lack of information.

You are tunneling on me because, as I've said multiple times, I AM NOT ABLE TO POST REGULARLY AND AM NOT ABLE TO PUT IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME NECESSARY TO SCUMHUNT/FEEL GOOD ABOUT VOTING ANYONE.

As far as I can tell I am being voted for not voting/not scumhunting/not taking a firm stance on anyone. All these things are a direct result of me being V/LA. Honestly I would have been better off not posting at all, but I wanted to make sure I stayed on top of things and didn't have to do a massive catch up when I return to work.

@Town: If Diddin kills me before I return to work and am able to post more frequently you need to seriously lynch the scum (Diddin).

@Diddn: Is your ability one-shot or everyday?

[popsofctown]

Rather large catch-up post incoming ….

Pops’ 188

rings my scum-dar for lurker hunting (Longing) and continuing with an unproductive thought process on Cycling Powers.

I do it with both alignments. It's good play. Deal with it. Lurking is a weak scumtell, and a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game.

I don’t like that Diddin claimed under zero pressure. That he did so as a Dayvig makes me wonder the following –

It was horrible. But there was precedent, and diddin comes off to me as one of those guys that does this sort of thing from both sides of the aisle. He's scummy, but that's not why.

The last paragraph of

RedCoyote’s 174

reads as fencesitting.

Explain why fencesitting is a scumtell, or this is an offtopic post. I've been accused of fencesitting in far more of my town games than scum ones and still fail to understand how it's a scumtell, so you'll need to enlighten me.

-incomplete post

[WrathChild]

Post Count:

-LynchMePls: 2

-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11

-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3

-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

Ok, had some extra time this morning. There are three players with disturbingly low post counts. I need to double check the V/LA status on these people.

[WrathChild]

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

[WrathChild]

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

VOTE: Narsis

[popsofctown]

It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/

No it is not anti-Town the entire game. The ability to publicly pass it for several days gives us solid sets of X and Y are not scum together data. If you insist on looking at the downsides long-term at least consider the positives generated along the way.

The net result is still negative. Info about who is not scum with who seems to only have marginally use. One of two players has to flip scum, and then we only get one confirmed innocent.

In all likelihood there are tons of cycling powers in play, so we should be getting a bunch of other similar data with or without the treestump power in play. The issue won't be connecting players, it will be finding that first scumbag per faction (multiple mafias seems very likely to me in light of the intrafactional limitation on the cycling mechanic).

No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches.

So you would rather eliminate a Cycling ability before any Paired Relational information could be generated or before it could be passed to a Townie who could Dayvig scum-Diddin?

193 should say "He'll dayvig a townie

or

hang from a rope", as would be consistent with the first sentence of the post. I'm not sure if this is the source of confusion here. But if Diddin roguely shoots some player he's not authorized to kill, yes, the correct move is to lynch him. A scumbag with the daykill ability will simply cycle the ability to player X and nightkill player X that same night to permanently remove the daykill ability from the game. There'd be no hope of salvaging the ability by hoping he's forced to pass it to a townie as you suggest. Even protown roles would have little ability to rescue the daykill ability, a scumpartner could send in the kill so we won't know who to roleblock, and he can pick any townie to kill+pass to so you don't know who to protect.

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

See above. And democratic daykilling is bad because the mafia are influencing it? Man, we should stop lynching, the mafia influence that too. vote: No lynch. *eyeroll*

@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game.

Then either your reading comprehension is bad or this is a scum-motivated post. You claim an ability AFTER you pass it. And the abilities worked just the same in the last game.

Reading comprehension is poor. I thought your original plan was for people to claim D1 that they had som ability they were going to pass to someone, but that a D2 thing not a D1 thing upon rereading your post. My mistake, nothing wrong with your plan and I /support it.

Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.

So you would push for a proven Dayvig power to be lynched based on him not following orders when –

1. If he is Scum he MUST pass it to someone other than his own partners
2. If he is Town Scum has to use their NK to eliminate it if they don’t think he will pass it to them
3. Whoever Diddin would pass it to would provide Mafia Pairing elimination
4. Lynching said proven Cycling power assures it is taken out of the game

1 is valid, but that same player is the player he'd shoot. And it's not like we're forcing him to shoot any particular player, he just plants the dayvig power on whatever he wanted to kill that night anyway.
2 is invalid. He won't shoot roguely if he's town. It makes no sense for his wincon.
3. is invalid, that player he passes to will be dead from scum NK, no pairing is made.
4 is invalid because the power is doomed anyway.

Post 437

No, I'm not scum because I support a better procedure for handling the dayvig than you do. It just means you don't understand it yet, or at the very worst, I'm mistaken. Knowingly pushing bad theory is something I would never try, have never tried, and have never seen with either alignment. It's next to impossible to make a town go along with incorrect approach to the setup, 25 (or even 12) players can't and won't be that dumb. Pushing bad theory as scum has a risk with almost no possible reward.


And lurker hunting is good play when no better cases are available. I could explain why, but since the reason we disagree isn't "we have different wincons so we therefore have different viewpoints", I doubt you'd accept the reason at this point.

Post Count:

-curiouskarmadog: 28
-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-Parama: 35
-Saint/Vi: 27

Lol...

Perhaps I need to slow down. Most of those even close to my post count have a shorter average post length than me in my rough estimation >_<


@WrathChild: Type "open bracket, b, close bracket" before what you want to bold, then after you've typed that part you wish to appear bold, type [/b] .
This allows you to use the quick reply to bold, similar functions are

for italics,

for underline,

for colored text in most crayon box colors, and

for quoting other players.
You can close all those with a similar ending as bold uses, but you leave off the ='s stuff for color and quote, and just use the key word.