Lucid Dreamers - Game Halted

[UncertainKitten]

I also note you still haven't pointed out the logical fallacies you accuse me of. How interesting that that remains an unsupported claim .

[Parama]

When did I ever say I disagreed with the lynch?
I said most people attacking him are attacking him for the wrong reasons, though I see reasons of my own that make him a viable lynch.

The logical fallacies you're using are all meta. People are robots and you can't expect them to be consistent, so the premise behind meta is null and void.

[StrangerCoug]

Gunning after myko? Give me a break! You didn't do jack shit with him til he got on your case.

Read the thread more closely. I made him crack, not the other way around.

Then you got into a pointless argument with him and haven't done jack shit since!

Do I think some things I argued with him were a waste of time to talk about? Yes, especially the argument about whether threatening to vote is a scumtell. But that's one of the big reasons why I think he's scum—he thinks threatening to vote is a tell. I have gained a lot of insight into him. It's not like I've gone nowhere.

You got thrust into the spotlight and *YOU DON'T LIKE IT*.

Two can play that game. I don't think mykonian's acting like he likes being in the spotlight either. Being in the spotlight myself is not the demotivating thing, though. If anything, it's that mykonian clearly thinks only for himself.

[UncertainKitten]

@Parama: So you're ignoring the fact that the meta business was mostly to check my initial read to make sure he didn't ALWAYS do this, right? I do believe you've gravely misunderstood my accusations against him, probably willfully because you like getting into fights. I'm done with you. When you post something relevant we can talk again.

Also SC, you make me laugh. The only think you've cracked is some terrible jokes about doing anything townie this game.

Ok. So essentially people can never be wrong or say stupid things without being scum? How interesting, because I'm pretty sure I could indict you on being misguided as well if I wanted to waste time. INTENT is what matters, not "herp derp he says dat someting is a tell dat isn't and dat makes him scum."

Alright, let's play this game. How is mykonian thinking only of himself? Provide examples.

[StrangerCoug]

Before I forget, I want Parama to enlighten me. He says the case other people have on me is crap and that his is better. Not policy lynching me, I hope?

Alright, let's play this game. How is mykonian thinking only of himself? Provide examples.

This is the biggie:

I'm not going to give scum ultimatums. Scum does give town ultimatums. Basically you claimed scum. You were looking for an excuse to place your vote, and "you were true to your word" you sound legitimate. Not that you are.

Later down the road:

I'm sorry? "Townies do not threaten"? Just because you disagree with me about legitimate ways to pressure people does not make me scummy. I've threatened as both alignments. (If I remember Insane Asylum 2 correctly, that's a game where I've threatened people as town.)

Remember that game, even though I managed to botch it to the point I never got to shoot?

There's also this gem that I like:

If I were scum, I would buddy the hell out of him and he wouldn't have a reason to vote/lynch me.

Pray tell, how does this work in practice?

[Parama]

Lol, policy lynching.

SC PING! PING! PING!

Hmm... Food for thought, but malthusis has a good counterpoint.

Lie low until lylo, anyone? This gives me passivescum vibes.

Now that you bring it up, I

DO

think Katsuki needs to explain how he came to this. Responding with OMGUS doesn't look good, either.

Oh, because you couldn't have brought it up yourself I spy a Katsuki scumbuddy!
Are you playing on a delay? 111 shows no sign of knowing what's currently going on in-thread.

SC is playing rather passively regardless of what he says, doesn't seem to be paying attention, and is hiding behind others with his logic.

Also, if you think I am ignoring the rest of the game, then ask me about the rest of the game. I'll happily provide my thoughts and opinions.

Um, this isn't something you should have to be asked for.

SC! Opinions on people not named Mykonian!

I just gave a couple. Lilu Hel is suspect for the weak Fate case, as may be Fate himself once mykonian flips. Everyone else either I have no read on or is fine.

Also, if you think I am ignoring the rest of the game, then ask me about the rest of the game. I'll happily provide my thoughts and opinions.

F*** THAT.

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, I recall you threatening. You also had power and confirmation to back it up. You don't here.

But no, Parama's right, meta is stupid and distracting.

I still don't see an attitude that only indicates he's thinking of himself.

Oh, hey Parama, you noticed the exact same things I did ^-^.

I just didn't throw them all out in (in)convenient quote format since I figured the ISO spoke for itself.

Well, the early passiveness anyway.

[Parama]

But no, Parama's right, meta is stupid and distracting.

...but then... why... did you... ask... for it?...

*brain explodes*

[UncertainKitten]

Wasn't thinking. Mea culpa.

I thought perhaps it would matter what he's done in the past because I thought I recalled SC being a bit passive, but you're right that it probably wouldn't have changed my mind. All that really matters is the scum intent in *this* game. And intent is something that lies past meta.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, I recall you threatening. You also had power and confirmation to back it up. You don't here.

So? You still know that I've threatened stuff as town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@ Mod: V/LA for the weekend. Back to full access late Sunday or Monday.

[Lilu Hel]

Mod, I'm V/LA every weekend cause of work. I'm also holding up the fort until Fenhl returns on the 5th. ~ H

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, I recall you threatening. You also had power and confirmation to back it up. You don't here.

So? You still know that I've threatened stuff as town.

And? It's not even relevant to my case. Why are you trying to confuse the issue?

[Leiskyrie]

Apologies for having been rather inactive...both Kat and I have had some family things to deal with.
Will be back later today.

Just from what I've read (haven't gotten into the SC/myko debate yet),

Vote: UK

[UncertainKitten]

Uh huh.

And I'm going to guess you don't have reasoning, because that would be :effort:

Something you've lacked this entire game ^-^.

[mykonian]

You got thrust into the spotlight and *YOU DON'T LIKE IT*.

Two can play that game. I don't think mykonian's acting like he likes being in the spotlight either. Being in the spotlight myself is not the demotivating thing, though. If anything, it's that mykonian clearly thinks only for himself.

Which is why myko

intentionally

didn't add reasons to his conclusion. Myko is not a VI, as many may know, and myko has learned from the great Looker that such actions are a great way to find scum and get the town going. That is searching the spotlight to get into a position to find scum. If you didn't understand that, my dear SC.

Now, SC is passive, reactive-tunneling obvscum. He turned a "legitimate" pressure vote with no intention to lynch into a real vote without a case other then "he didn't answer my question". That's vote-parking. So, give me a happy new year and lynch that scum. Three votes to go.

[UncertainKitten]

Any other suspects, myko?

[mykonian]

oh, and doing a Parama, parama: being right from the start and lynching the scummy bastard.

Pre post edit: Currently, you are off the list, UK. Fate felt town, and so did malt. Though malt would be the type of scum which I would have trouble to find. Lady seemed fine, I had more trouble with Katsuki, but I found them very hard to read. That part of the game with lilu, kat and lady was a mess. I would be very surprised if two of them were scum though. Lady and lilu seemed to reason from the point where they at least believed they were right (which would be fueling the debate).

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, I recall you threatening. You also had power and confirmation to back it up. You don't here.

So? You still know that I've threatened stuff as town.

And? It's not even relevant to my case. Why are you trying to confuse the issue?

All I'm trying to convince everybody is that threatening people is a legitimate tactic. You're focusing on a specific scenario. If you think my scenario is invalid, then explain to me why.

[UncertainKitten]

I have no idea what you're even arguing anymore. The threatening thing wasn't a great point, and it's not one I used. You're using it to distract from the issue of the fact you've been passively doing NOTHING until myko called you out.

[StrangerCoug]

Again you reverse the order of events. mykonian didn't really snap at me until I pressured him.

[Fate]

"I am focusing all my time and energy on you" ≠ "I am not doing any decent scumhunting." I am focusing my time and energy on you

BECAUSE I FIND YOU THE SCUMMIEST.

Lilu Hel is scummy to me as well, and if you flip scum Fate's chainsaw defense of you will not look good. (By that logic, I could get Lady Lambdadelta into trouble if I flip scum, but she can relax because I'm not going to. I don't think she can really be faulted by what she's thinking either way as she has a developed case, while Fate is just piggybacking on you.)

I'm not sure how its chainsaw defense, since I've found you SCUMMY this whole time and myko TOWNIE this whole time. So when a fight breaks out YEAH I GOT TOWNS BACK VS. SCUMBAGZ.


Also I'm losing my mind reading your posts, because where did this CAPS"I FIND YOU SCUMMIEST" even come from???

I don't remember a drastic change like that even taking place, I'm gonna look through your ISO AND YOU BETTER HOPE BROWNIES ARE IN THERE

[Fate]

Conclusion, SC is scum, together with UK. Now, if two players redirected their actions to Gandalf, and someone would make Gandalf a PGO, this would all be a lot easier.

The hell? Explain in detail please.

Major HoS: Lilu Hei and mykonian.

I

WILL

vote one of them in my next post.

This is your FIRST instance of calling SC scum, and its just "what? You made a broad statement and didn't support it!?!? YOU ARE SCUMZZZ"

How does him making an unsupported statement like that benefit him as scum, where is the scum intent?

SC - Fate accused me of OMGUS, I didn't accuse him.

I asked you to address this; you did not do so.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

Then you follow it up with a: YOU DIDNT EXPLAIN! KA-VOTEEEEE.

So your reasoning for finding him "THE SCUMMIEST SCUMZ OF ALL TIMES" was originally weak as hell.


Now going through the rest of your case, I don't see a "ramping up" of suspicion to you saying "MYKO IS DA SCUMMIEST SCUM I MADEHIM CRACK" all I see is a back and forth quote war between you and myko, with you mostly attempting to refute myko's points and piggybacking off LLD's weak point on myko (that he unvoted optimal play, so it was all just a town lookin gambit). If anything, what I DO SEE is a ramping up of FRUSTRATION that myko won't answer your points, but that doesn't correlate with you thinking HES SCUM, just that he's dense.

Of course when faking suspicion on people you would be likely ot just "translate" that frustration into scumhunting to make it look like a geniune scumread.

BUT I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU COWBOY.

[StrangerCoug]

This is your FIRST instance of calling SC scum

What, short of a drastic blunder, makes you think I am going to call myself scum?

How does him making an unsupported statement like that benefit him as scum, where is the scum intent?

Town makes a coherent case, which may be the short and simple cases I usually make or the more elaborate ones Mastin does if I remember him correctly. Scum is more likely to try to get away with crap cases, assuming they bother with cases at all. Yes, situations may come up where their best bet is to bus, but they need a good reason to, so they prefer picking a VI and going from there. Not supporting your scum read also removes any possibility of defense, and going by raw numbers you're more likely to be wrong than right. That's why we make cases—so we can judge, by behavior, who is likely to be scum.

[Fate]

Replace SC with Myko, obv.

I mean, I too am

curious

as to his theory behind SC and UK scum, but the pure

reactions

he garnished from being stubborn and not saying them have been far more fruitiful for reads than him explaining his reasoning in the first place. (And since I had him down as town, I was more looking for reads elsewhere than trying to get him to explain his reasons to get a read on him)