Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thirdkoopa]

Posting to avoid prod.

Seems like a lot has happened now as well. I'll be taking a re-read and getting some real stuff rather than clamming stuff up. Along with that, I'll also be responding to any questions. I may have to go V/LA but I should out right now that

I won't be here for New Year's or the day before that

[Furcolow]

I'm going to be busy tomorrow
moving my placeholder vote, because cyberbob is probably town (yes, i know what a placeholder vote is!)

unvote: cyberbob

VOTE: umbrage
I feel like his posting is too-defensive and is forced

[InflatablePie]

el simo makes perfect sense. A 'random' vote is never random. He's giving more meaning to the made up way we use it than I normally do but its within reason. Easy wagon is too easy.

Unvote vote Sorasgoof

for a bad 4th vote.

I really hope this isn't serious. You're using the fact that I was the fourth on the wagon as a reason for voting me, with no other reasoning? Awwwwesome.

If it were serious, you'd have pointed out the others who also do not see the reasoning behind his "random" vote.

I’m looking at the very first sentence as evidence that he didn’t have too many concerns about it.

You can also look at the second sentence, which is soras trying to deflect suspicion onto people who did a similar thing. In other words, "Why are you voting me? Other people did this too!".

This isn't the first time soras has called his attacker scummy or tried to deflect suspicion:

You are trying way too hard to make something out of nothing. That's equivalent to you taking a random RVS vote and calling me scum for it.

Hey, buddy. I'm not trying that hard at all. Looks like you're trying pretty hard to make it look like I'm trying my heart out to paint you as scum.

As for the answer to your question, which I can tell by the way you're asking it you're trying to make me contradict myself, it depends.

Still waiting on Sora, Umbrage and Admiral to answer me.

I already answered you anyway. Not satisfied with the answer? Read a little harder; it answers your question. Did you think it was confusing? Huh, so was your whole fiasco over random voting/bandwagoning/whatever.

(Note that in the above example, he unvotes el simo as well, leaving oritz/el simo/Umbrage as the leading wagons, at 3/3/5 respectively. Nothing outright suspicious I can place in words, just a note)

Scum are most likely in Groups 2 and 4. (3K, TL, Cyberbob, soras)

This whole group thing and the huge posts seem like very over the top ways of trying to make yourself look town, Pie.

Unvote, vote: sorasgoof

He did the same thing to el simo earlier, then jumped off the wagon when the pressure turned on him. He's edging wagons along while keeping a low profile.

Maybe I should be voting you for phrasing the above to make me look scummy.

^^good vote.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while. I'm really confident at least one of those 3 is scum. I'm gonna reread the 3 of them because I think I might prefer one of the other two lynches over Umbrage. Also, not sure what to think of CB. I get the scummiest vibe ever from him but I don't know if he's actually scum or if it's just his playstyle.

Ohhhhkay, now that I have a vote on me, you've all of a sudden had a bad feeling about me for a while. I see.

Almost half of his posts attack his attacker in some way, shape, or form. As Olinea said, some townie players tend to suspect those that vote them as a natural reaction - admittedly I have felt the same at times, so I know what he means. But this is different. This is just scummy.

[sorasgoof]

No, this isn't scummy. You're making it look scummy. I don't know if you've noticed, but I do this all the time. I just can't see people who attack me for the reasons they do as town/not scummy. It's just how it is.

[Umbrage]

Time to simplify things.

ortiz: Was the first to go after el simo, but let the wagon drop when it was gathering momentum. Doesn't buddy anyone, doesn't distance anyone. Stays focused and picks up on good tells that I agree with most of the time. CONCLUSION: I'm trying to see the case on him, but I see his play as pretty solid town.

Cyberbob: God, his ISO is just plain nasty. He votes people for policy and doesn't scumhunt for half the game. And he also complains about the players. A lot. He's improved a bit, but not much. CONCLUSION: He's been here too long to think lurking as scum is a really good strategy. He looks more like lurking town, but I wouldn't weep at his lynch.

ThAdmiral: Jumps on the el simo wagon when it gains speed, jumps off without much ceremony. He also blatantly copied Olinea's case on ortiz. But these are the scummiest things he's done. CONCLUSION: Needs to be more active. It's hard to get a good read on him. The tells I found aren't really enough to warrant a vote, and there are bigger fish to fry.

chamber: Reading his ISO is like listening to someone talk on the phone without hearing the other end of the conversation. For Pete's sake man, quote! He's the most arrogant player in the game, outright refusing to prove his point. Hasn't really contributed anything useful. CONCLUSION: Possible scum. His posts confuse the game more than anything. It's hard to put my finger on it, but there's something about his style of play that is deliberately anti-town.

Furcolow: Knows he's a VI, yet doesn't try to improve his play. Jesus. Does anyone here take him seriously? And WHAT is with the constant buddying to el simo? Am I the only one who's seeing this? CONCLUSION: Scum if el simo is scum.

el simo: Reads as frustrated town, or more likely, impatient scum. Buddies with Furcolow, they defend each other whenever one comes under suspicion. CONCLUSION: Since I appear to be the only player that still finds him scummy, I'll let it drop, but do me a favour and read over him and Furcolow. I see a TON of buddying and coaching going on.

InflatablePie: Very aggressive, but not in a scummy way. Doesn't vote without a series of reasons explaining why. The only thing I don't like is the switch from 3K to soras. Appears to be trying to buddy me. CONCLUSION: No reason to think he's scum now, we need more information of alignment. If 3K is town, IP looks way more scummy.

sorasgoof: Has yet to make a decent defence other than "everyone is trying to make me look scummy". At least 3K cleaned up his act somewhat. Soras is just doing some weird Appeal to Paranoia stuff. CONCLUSION: Still like where my vote is.

Olinea: Does some good scum hunting. No obvious bandwagoning, or tunneling, or any of the usual tells. CONCLUSION: Probably the person I suspect the least. Therefore, I suspect him.

Thirdkoopa: Plays Civ IV too much. Honestly, I don't get much of a scum vibe from his posts. CONCLUSION: Call it gut if you want, but I think he's town.

TheLonging: All his posts have been bullshit so far, I look forward to some content from his replacement. CONCLUSION: Null read.

I would prefer a lynch of sorasgoof, el simo, or Furcolow. I am also open to lynching Cyberbob, ThAdmiral, or chamber, but only if some damn good cases are made on them.

[sorasgoof]

sorasgoof: Has yet to make a decent defence other than "everyone is trying to make me look scummy". At least 3K cleaned up his act somewhat. Soras is just doing some weird Appeal to Paranoia stuff. CONCLUSION: Still like where my vote is.

I've tried to, but no matter what I say, you guys slam your hands over your ears and eyes and yell "NO!!"

Sometime today or tomorrow I plan on going through and definitively disproving every bullshit thing you guys have said. It'll be easy, I assure you.

[InflatablePie]

Appears to be trying to buddy me.

Nope, I just agree with you and find you town due to reasons I have pointed out previously. Buuuuut I suppose it does look like buddying, yeah.

If 3K is town, IP looks way more scummy.

Couldn't I also be more scummy if 3K does flip scum? I admitted to making a less than stellar case on him, then quickly switched off once his wagon began to build. That could be seen as scum jumping off of a bus-wagon they didn't think would gain support. Add that to me saying I "know" 3K is scum... To be honest I'm slightly surprised I haven't gotten more votes this game. But of course, that's perfectly fine with me.

Why am I saying all of this? Good question. I think this game has driven me to insanity.

On to more important things.

No, this isn't scummy. You're making it look scummy.

And it doesn't really need my help, tbh. So what's your read on me now, soras? Let me guess - leaning scum?

sorasgoof: Has yet to make a decent defence other than "everyone is trying to make me look scummy". At least 3K cleaned up his act somewhat. Soras is just doing some weird Appeal to Paranoia stuff. CONCLUSION: Still like where my vote is.

I've tried to, but no matter what I say, you guys slam your hands over your ears and eyes and yell "NO!!"

Because your defense sucks. Protip: accusing your attackers of being scummy does not make you look any more town, and neither does saying "I'm not scummy, you're just

making it look that way

."

inb4 someone says this is coaching
inb4 someone calls me out for being overdefensive
induring Pie is losing his grip on mafia-related sanity

Posting to avoid prod.

[InflatablePie]

Also, I'm physically sick, this is New Year's Eve, I have to be the closing busser at Olive Garden tonight (work from 6PM -> 11 or later EST) and I might not have computer access for the weekend depending on where I will be located (mom's house or dad's house) due to various IRL issues.

So, possibly reduced activity/informal possible V/LA for the weekend, but I might be able to post from my phone if this occurs.

[sorasgoof]

I don't like how people have this thing where if you attack your attacker for attacking you, you're scummy. ESPECIALLY when the reasons for the original attack are stupid. Pie, what if I do think you're scummy? What, my friend, is wrong with that? Oh, you've attacked me already, I guess I'm not allowed to think you could POSSIBLY be scum.

Also, don't do that inb4 thing. That honestly makes people more scummy in my eyes, regardless of who it is. You can't say "inb4...X" and have that negate what I WOULD have said.

[Umbrage]

Also, don't do that inb4 thing. That honestly makes people more scummy in my eyes, regardless of who it is. You can't say "inb4...X" and have that negate what I WOULD have said.

Soras, that thing you said about explaining why these arguments are bullshit is a VERY good thing to do. Because right now I want you lynched, and it will take more than "this is utter bullshit" to change my mind.

[InflatablePie]

I don't like how people have this thing where if you attack your attacker for attacking you, you're scummy. ESPECIALLY when the reasons for the original attack are stupid.

The reasons for my attack are because you're attacking your attackers for attacking you. That's not a stupid reason for an attack, and as your attacker, your attack on me for attacking you is a medicore defense.

...

Or a mediocre

attack

.

Also, don't do that inb4 thing. That honestly makes people more scummy in my eyes, regardless of who it is. You can't say "inb4...X" and have that negate what I WOULD have said.

Damnit, I forgot to:
inb4 someone finds my inb4ing scummy

I was merely pointing out that I realize what I said could be taken as coaching (as was ThAdmiral's case on me concerning oritz) or being overdefensive for pointing out such. Similar to me pointing out reasons why I have been scummy. I'm going off the rails on a crazy train, here.

Maybe it's because I'm sick and my brain is slowly degrading because of it. *shrug*

[InflatablePie]

Also, your last few posts have just been "God, the people who are attacking me are doing it for stupid reasons." but I haven't seen you

point out what those reasons are

. Maybe I missed it, and if I did, point it out.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob: God, his ISO is just plain nasty. He votes people for policy and doesn't scumhunt for half the game. And he also complains about the players. A lot. He's improved a bit, but not much. CONCLUSION: He's been here too long to think lurking as scum is a really good strategy. He looks more like lurking town, but I wouldn't weep at his lynch.

I complain a lot because there's a lot to complain about, hope this helps

ps "I wouldn't weep" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line. shape up scum

[Umbrage]

Cyberbob: God, his ISO is just plain nasty. He votes people for policy and doesn't scumhunt for half the game. And he also complains about the players. A lot. He's improved a bit, but not much. CONCLUSION: He's been here too long to think lurking as scum is a really good strategy. He looks more like lurking town, but I wouldn't weep at his lynch.

I complain a lot because there's a lot to complain about, hope this helps

ps "I wouldn't weep" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line. shape up scum

ps "shape up scum" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line.

[diddin]

Fugitive replaces TheLonging!

[InflatablePie]

Fugitive replaces TheLonging!

Can't wait to see his thoughts on the game so far, especially considering I was waiting for TL's post (that never came) for quite some time.

[Fugitive]

Hello ladies.

Not going to have time to read tonight, being New Years and all, but I've skimmed the thread so far and I'll have a content filled analysis after a real reading of the game by tomorrow.

[Fugitive]

Oh, for the people that haven't played with me. My wiki isn't up to date, but I have a few completed games there, I'll update it later if I care/remember. And if you go to ortiz's games from his wiki then onto the ScoreHero site you can find a few more that I've played as well. You should be able to find town and scum games from me through those two sources.

[ThAdmiral]

ortiz: Was the first to go after el simo, but let the wagon drop when it was gathering momentum.

Doesn't buddy anyone

, doesn't distance anyone. Stays focused and picks up on good tells that I agree with most of the time. CONCLUSION: I'm trying to see the case on him, but I see his play as pretty solid town.

(bolding mine)
Have a read of him again. I think he buddy's IP man fairly obviously.

ThAdmiral: Jumps on the el simo wagon when it gains speed, jumps off without much ceremony.

He also blatantly copied Olinea's case on ortiz

. But these are the scummiest things he's done. CONCLUSION:

Needs to be more active

. It's hard to get a good read on him. The tells I found aren't really enough to warrant a vote, and there are bigger fish to fry.

(bolding mine)
I would say I expanded on something that Olinea mentioned about ortiz.
I am certainly trying to be more active, but as you can probably imagine it is a fairly busy time of year!

[chamber]

Sorry, fell behind in this game cause of holidays and stuff. Wanted to do a reread before posting but I haven't quite finished and am going to bed, so expect a post with actual substance like 9 hours from now.

[Fugitive]

Christ almighty this game is boring. That was a painful 16 pages. Also, you can tell it's full of SH users. Useless walls everywhere.

Nom: Furcolow for most annoying poster ever.
inb4OMGpersonalattack
inb4inb4isscummy
inb4anotherinb4
inb4inb4isWIFOMnow

chamber

ThAdmiral

el simo

Olinea

Umbrage

InflatablePie

Thirdkoopa

ortiz1193

sorasgoof

Cyberbob

F

u

r

c

o

l

o

w

TheLonging
Seriously, TL's play was awful. I've rarely seen worse tunneling and more useless posts, though it makes a little more sense to me now, it was still poor play on his part. Yes, I'm critiquing my replacement's play, WIFOM away.


Just because you're name is in the middle of the list doesn't make you a neutral read. That's why colors were necessary. Yes, I know I have far more scummy reads than townie reads, you guys are just incredibly scummy. There's actually been very few worthwhile posts. I'd probably be raging hard by now had I been playing up to this point.

Vote: Furcolow

This man needs a rope around his neck.

Some general things I've noticed:
-Inactive players are slipping completely under the radar. TheLonging, and Thirdkoopa have notably came under very little suspicion. This seems to be another one of those, the-more-you-post-the-scummier-you-are kind of games, which are incredibly annoying.

-Walls are stupid. I don't mean walls in general, I mean the walls being made. I'm looking at you Pie. You too Tk. You too Furcolow (although it's usually scattered across and quintuple post.) You too random player reading this. When your posts are that long, make them worthwhile and content filled.

-I didn't really pay attention to time stamps, but since I've replaced in almost 24 hours ago there have been 2 posts? I'll forgive everyone on the holidays, but get in the game now.

-Voting seems to be thrown about a little willy nilly, but I'm not surprised, this is very typical of SH players, but there have been some very poor votes placed.

[ortiz1193]

Why do you think Furcolow is scum? Annoying isn't a reason for a lynch.

ThAdmiral, do you have nothing to say in response to me?

ps "shape up scum" is a nice little backhanded attack that lets you get away with casting suspicion without really putting yourself on the line.

For what it's worth, CB has already put himself on the line and called you scum >_>. I thought he made a good point there.

[Fugitive]

I never said annoyance was the reason for my vote.

[el simo]

I never said annoyance was the reason for my vote.

So what is the reason?

Pretty recovered now, will get that reread on Sora done later today.

[ortiz1193]

Why do you think Furcolow is scum?