Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Fugitive]

I never said annoyance was the reason for my vote.

So what is the reason?

I thought it was rather obvious, I'm honestly surprised he has no votes. I'm not going to go back and take a million quotes, because that's close to how many there are, but it's mostly about his gameplay. He's playing a very OMGUS style, people suspicious of him garner his suspicion back. Then awhile ago when he claimed a VI account that set off some major alarms, but that seems to have been covered to death. I'm not going to let it go though. I still can't see a town member actually claiming to be a VI account simply because they've caught some suspicion. And notice how the posting dropped off after the VI claim. Seems to be a common scum tactic to fly under the radar like that as well. The "content" that he posts is sketchy at best. Seems to be to be full of fake scum-tells and filler material. Example:

I'm going to be busy tomorrow
moving my placeholder vote, because cyberbob is probably town (yes, i know what a placeholder vote is!)

unvote: cyberbob

VOTE: umbrage
I feel like his posting is too-defensive and is forced

Defensive? How is he supposed to talk to people who are suspicious of him? By not defending himself. Forced? Saying something feels forced is usually a load of shit and usually seems to be a scum-tell used by scum to fake gut reads on people. And I can bet he'll defend those reasons by saying it's just a placeholder, but even placeholder votes need good reasons. There's no town motivation for using bad reasons for any vote.

If completely necessary, I can do a post-by-post, but just ISO him and you'll see what I'm talking about. Then he seems to fly back under the radar with intervals of non-posting.

[el simo]

Vote: Umbrage

vote: oritz

Do I really need to explain to you why self-voting is just about the worst possible thing?

Vote: ortiz1193

vote: ortiz

I'm starting to develop a ping on my scumdar in Oritz's direction. I feel like the vote on him was more serious than it should have been, and the reasons he gave were almost exactly the same as chamber's reasons. To me, the self-vote comes off as a "Hey, guys, this is still a joke! I'ma vote myself just like Umbrage did so you guys know that....! *looks around nervously*"

---

I doubt that was random since it happened to be third on the wagon. Since you are trying to hide the real reason for your vote...

vote: el simo

Actually el simo's vote was the closest one to possibly having any scum motivation. Why did you pick me and chamber but not mention el simo?

As for you, el simo, you said you were randomly voting. It's interesting how your "RANDOM" vote happened to follow the bandwagon. To me, it looks like you're trying to jump on the largest bandwagon and further it without too much (read: any) reasoning. How can you even say it was unrelated? It's interesting because it's too much of a coincidence.

---

vote el simo

Vote: el simo

vote: el simo

Okay, I just totally do not buy what el simo is saying... ....

vote: el simo

...Pretty confident on el simo, people.

---

Note these are all unvotes on me or are meant to show the shift in pressure.

vote Umbrage

unvote ortiz;
vote umbrage

Scum!!!!!!!!:

ThAdmiral
Umbrage

vote: Umbrage.

That being said, I can sort of see where you were coming from with the random thing, not that I like the way you went about it/worded it/(un)intentionally misled. I'm going to

unvote

for now.

---

Vote: ThirdKoopa

vote: ThirdKoopa

.

vote: Thirdkoopa

tl;dr large lack of original content, lots of parroting. Not to mention extreme lack of activity. Generally falls in the direction the town is facing. Only real original content was him defending himself - because he had no one to copy I'm sure.

vote: sora

I think with all that's gone on today and with all the cases been made, this is the one I feel most comfortable with.

[el simo]

Yeah not buying Fugitive. Take a minute to ISO him, you are voting him because of his gameplay, but his gameplay is exactly the same as any other game he has played in, town and scum.

Why is OMGUS scummy? It's not, OMGUS is nooby. Why is making a weak case scummy? It's not, weak cases are nooby. Bad cases where lies have been made and facts have been misrepresented and tells have been over emphasised, these are scummy. He has not done this.

Your tell is not inductive of alignment, it's indicative of experience.

Try again when you have a real scum tell.

[Umbrage]

Seriously, TL's play was awful. I've rarely seen worse tunneling and more useless posts, though it makes a little more sense to me now, it was still poor play on his part. Yes, I'm critiquing my replacement's play, WIFOM away.

What the hell is this? The bit about 'it makes more sense now', what IS that?? It looks like a softclaim to me.

I don't think it's bad to critique your predecessor's play, but this looks like some kind of weird unnecessary defence coupled with a vague softclaim. It's like he's trying to subtly suggest he's town without providing any good reasoning as to why he's town. Hate hate hate.

FoS: Fugitive

PS: Love el simo coming to Furcolow's defence. Atta boy!

[el simo]

I will vote Fur when he does something scummy.

[Fugitive]

Your tell is not inductive of alignment, it's indicative of experience.

We'll agree to disagree then. Although I do admittedly have vast problems separating noob from scum tells, he claims to be an experienced and on his VI alt, so I'm not letting noob tells slide by as all that is.

What the hell is this? The bit about 'it makes more sense now', what IS that?? It looks like a softclaim to me.

You're bright. That's a brilliant FoS.

[diddin]

Votecount

ortiz1193 (1) ThAdmiral
el simo (1) Olinea
ThAdmiral (0)
Furcolow (1) Fugitive
Umbrage (2) chamber, Furcolow
chamber (0)
sorasgoof (3) Umbrage, InflatablePie, el simo
InflatablePie (0)
Olinea (0)
Cyberbob (1) ortiz1193,
Thirdkoopa (2) Sorasgoof, Cyberbob
Fugitive (0)
Not Voting (1)Thirdkoopa,

It is now day one. With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 to no lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, January 5 at 10:41 AM Central Time.

Deadline is in four days.

[InflatablePie]

In the next day or two, we really need to start picking 2 or 3 people to narrow the lynch down to. 4 days left in the deadline and altogether we have 7 different suspects. I understand many of you want your votee to be lynched, but some people might want to start settling for another lynch if we can't start narrowing things down.

Just saying.

Fugi:
A) I don't consider anything I've posted a "wall" just yet. *shrug*
B) You mention OMGUS-style posting and flying back under the radar once something's blown over. Do you feel the same about sorasgoof's posting and 3K's activity levels before/after pressure (respectively)?
C) I understand your reasoning in your vote, but I personally am getting a nullread on fur at the moment.

Also:

PS: Love el simo coming to Furcolow's defence. Atta boy!

[InflatablePie]

And yes, I'm agreeing with Umbrage again, but he's right. There's a difference between finding someone town/not scum and soft-defending them when someone else builds a case on said person.

[ortiz1193]

We should decide between tk, cb, and soras imo.

And no I don't want to lynch tk, but he's an option for just about everyone else.

[Umbrage]

We should decide between tk, cb, and soras imo.

And no I don't want to lynch tk, but he's an option for just about everyone else.

I don't see a lynch of CB happening. True, town wouldn't miss him, but he's not as bad as some of the others. I'd also add Furcolow to this list.

Judging by the opinions here, the lynch candidates for today are:

ThirdKoopa
sorasgoof
Furcolow

I'm fine with any of them, but I'm leaning toward Furcolow, since his alignment will give us some good info into el simo's. Two for the price of one.

I'd also like to state my distaste for the way we're heading. I believe it was Fugitive who said 'whoever posts the least is the scummiest'. Some good cases have been made on ortiz, el simo, and myself, yet none of us appear to be a valid lynch option. In my opinion, the scum are likely very active posters and thinkers in this game and are trying to steer attention toward the ones who aren't as active. I don't like how wagons grew so quickly on ThirdKoopa and sorasgoof. I'm surprised nobody has suggested I'm scum with TK, because if I was, I couldn't have done a better job of redirecting everyone's attention to soras and saving my partner. It seems there are some players who are untouchable in this game, which is a very unhealthy arrangement.

[Umbrage]

Sorry for the double post, but...

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

[InflatablePie]

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

FoS: Umbrage

[Umbrage]

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

FoS: Umbrage

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral, do you have nothing to say in response to me?

Soz, missed it.

My comments are inside and are bolded...

1)Ortiz has actually been wishy-washy on a number of things. 2)He voted el-simo at the start of the day, then flipped to having a slight-town read on el-simo and voted umbrage instead. 3)Then he agreed with umbrage's vote on sora, but didn't take his vote off umbrage. 4)Earlier he had expressed some suspicions of 3k (iso 20, 21), but when that wagon died down he decided that he wasn't suspicious of him any more (iso 23), and voted cyberbob instead.
He seems to be keeping his options open for most of the major wagons and has flip-flopped quite a few times.

vote: ortiz

1) I'm waiting on Olinea to actually point this out, and if he can't, then you just parroted his BS.

As I said to umbrage "I would say I expanded on something that Olinea mentioned about ortiz." My whole post detailed times that imo you had been wishy-washy though, so it wasn't BS.

2) Not wishy-washy. As soon as I figured out what el simo was saying, and why he wasn't scummy, it made Umbrage scummy for pushing it as hard as he was.

This actually makes sense so I will let it go, but I still find it a little funny that you would flip straight to umbrage. If you had been pushing el simo for a misunderstanding couldn't it have been possible umbrage was doing this as well?

3) The post in question:

^^good vote.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while. I'm really confident at least one of those 3 is scum. I'm gonna reread the 3 of them because I think I might prefer one of the other two lynches over Umbrage. Also, not sure what to think of CB. I get the scummiest vibe ever from him but I don't know if he's actually scum or if it's just his playstyle.

Note: Pie is not playing his scum meta at all. He could've changed, but I'm pretty convinced he's town at this point. I have a pretty good idea of what his scum meta is because I pretty much based mine off of it >_> (and I stalk his games).

Pretty sure it clearly says that I was suspicious of all of them, and I was going to reread, which is why I left my vote where it was.

Okay, now I understand why you left your vote where it was, but I am still somewhat suspicious of you for keeping your options open to go with whichever bandwagon picked up the most steam.

4) The "suspicions" mentioned:

Pie: Go ahead and give us the case on why TK is scum. I see his lack of pro-town vibes, but I didn't see anything that screams scum in the ISO.

The scummiest thing TK has done is unvote as soon as you pressure him like that - he majorly caved right there.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while.

This is my favorite part. The first quote is hardly showing suspicion compared to the second one, where I did show suspicion. The second post is #324. Remember that reread I said I was going to do? Yeah, that happened 5 posts after this one. 5. So tell me please how the TK wagon "died down" in the 5 posts in between my suspicion and me saying that I don't think he's scum. Hint: It didn't. I reread the game, like I said I was going to in the previous post, and like I said in the post where I said TK was town.

Admiral added the "but when that wagon died down he decided that he wasn't suspicious of him any more" just to put me in a negative light. Misrepping, taking out of context, whatever you want to call it.

I reread your post in which you voted cyberbob, and it does seem more like an honest re-evaluation of your suspicions than anything nefarious

unvote

I have fucking no idea in this game.

What the hell is this? The bit about 'it makes more sense now', what IS that?? It looks like a softclaim to me.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

Dude, if you think he's softclaimed don't ask him to elaborate!

[Umbrage]

Dude, if you think he's softclaimed don't ask him to elaborate!

It's a pretty bad, obvious softclaim. If it even is a softclaim. I don't know WHAT it is, but I don't like it. He's trying to look more town by acknowledging points against himself. Which is crazy.

You know, the more I think about it...

Unvote, vote: Fugitive

Saying 'good point' when I FoS you is practically an admission of guilt. I mean, WHAT THE HELL.

[ortiz1193]

Umbrage you made a newb mistake by saying that. When you think someone's a PR, it's generally considered anti-town to point it out. People normally get called scum for it too. (Even though I've only seen town players point out softclaims. Idk why so many mafia players fail)

Preview Edit:

Umbrage he was being sarcastic. You pretty much said, "Oh, you're soft-claiming a PR? That makes you scummy!"

He softclaimed, now you're voting him. This is scummy because scum have motivation to either a) out a suspected PR or b) lynch a suspected PR + more reasons.

--------

Oh and I'm still waiting for Olinea to respond to my last post from whenever.

[Fugitive]

I don't usually post from my itouch because I hate to but...

@um -
a) I do not admit to that being a softclaim, but nice rolefishing and suspicion off false tells.
B) your sarcasm detector seems to be broken, and the fact that your voting me for misunderstanding my sarcasm (and not even checking first) makes me sure of one of two things. You're scum or you're town whose reads I'll never be able to trust because, for lack of a better way to put it, they're stupid.

[Fugitive]

Oh, and I never said whOever posts the least is the scummiest. Misrep +1

El simo says that's a scum-tell. I learn fast. >_>

[Umbrage]

I don't usually post from my itouch because I hate to but...

@um -
a) I do not admit to that being a softclaim, but nice rolefishing and suspicion off false tells.
B) your sarcasm detector seems to be broken, and the fact that your voting me for misunderstanding my sarcasm (and not even checking first) makes me sure of one of two things. You're scum or you're town whose reads I'll never be able to trust because, for lack of a better way to put it, they're stupid.

(This is all pretty much what ortiz just said.)

1. The sarcasm (if it was intended) wasn't clear AT ALL.
2. It's a pretty big leap between questioning a weird statement and rolefishing.

Fugitive is still scummy.

[Fugitive]

I don't usually post from my itouch because I hate to but...

@um -
a) I do not admit to that being a softclaim, but nice rolefishing and suspicion off false tells.
B) your sarcasm detector seems to be broken, and the fact that your voting me for misunderstanding my sarcasm (and not even checking first) makes me sure of one of two things. You're scum or you're town whose reads I'll never be able to trust because, for lack of a better way to put it, they're stupid.

(This is all pretty much what ortiz just said.)

Well, what ortiz said was correct. It's not like I based my answers off of his.

1. The sarcasm (if it was intended) wasn't clear AT ALL.

Gee, it seemed clear to everyone else. I can assure you that I would never call an FoS brilliant when it's based off of false scum-tells.

2. It's a pretty big leap between questioning a weird statement and rolefishing.

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

You're really trying to play that off as questioning a weird statement rather than rolefishing?

REALLY?

I'd like to hear outside opinions on that. I've rarely seen more obvious rolefishes. ortiz is right in saying rolefishing is often just curious townies, but DENYING obvious rolefishing is not town no matter how you spin it.

[el simo]

Yeah Umbrage we call it rolefishing and it is generally something that is said to be a scum tell - as they are the only ones that should be looking for power roles.

And yes, I'm agreeing with Umbrage again, but he's right. There's a difference between finding someone town/not scum and soft-defending them when someone else builds a case on said person.

I am still yet to see a case on him. The only two arguments made against him sum up to he is a learning player. I won't let him garner suspicion because other players can't tell between scum and noob.

El simo says that's a scum-tell. I learn fast. >_>

someone listened to me

[InflatablePie]

You're right. That's a brilliant FoS.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

FoS: Umbrage

[InflatablePie]

I am still yet to see a case on him. The only two arguments made against him sum up to he is a learning player. I won't let him garner suspicion because other players can't tell between scum and noob.

Mmhmm, but it wouldn't have mattered as much if he woulda defended himself first or something. Now it just looks like you're jumping to his defense at the slightest suspicions, and you should understand why that seems scummy.

[Fugitive]

I am still yet to see a case on him. The only two arguments made against him sum up to he is a learning player. I won't let him garner suspicion because other players can't tell between scum and noob.

Mmhmm, but it wouldn't have mattered as much if he woulda defended himself first or something. Now it just looks like you're jumping to his defense at the slightest suspicions, and you should understand why that seems scummy.

Holy shit, a post that doesn't have a picture? Content is still a bit lacking though, that was just game theory.

What are your thoughts on furcolow?