Good Omens Mafia! Game Over.

[Mr. Flay]

Apparently I'm the other replacement, then, though I don't know who just yet either.

Reading back over the thread just now...

[Mr. Flay]

This is going to be a little bizarre, because I don't even know who I am (well, I know who I *am*, but not who I *was*...)

Anyway, at this point I'm willing to let mith try to confirm his role overnight. I suspect if he's protown, some scum group will kill him anyway (do we want a doc to protect our cop investigation tonight?). If he lives, everything that has been said so far makes it sound like it'll be fairly easy to decipher his role. His logic has been fairly unassailable, which is more than I can say for most in this game...

Unvote

if I was, thought I doubt it (presumably I'm either KE or FD). I've got some lesser suspicions as well, but right now Locus Cosecant seems like the best lynch. I've played with

IS

Coron before, and yes, he's always like this. PB is too, but I can't tell yet whether he's being unhelpful because he's PB, or unhelpful because he's scum and PB .

Vote: Locus Cosecant

for truly irrational behavior, crap logic, and bandwagoning.

I'd like to know how we're going to decide who mith kills, since he seems to want the town to decide (effectively giving us two lynches, if there's no night-protect). Above all, I'm not interested in another no-lynch though.

[Mr. Flay]

Mother of mercy... DarkLight140, I don't suppose you can make the subtext a little clearer for those of us who've just read 23 pages?

Unvote: LC

temporarily. I'd rather see mith take out a lurker tonight than PB, in case he's lying...Electra? Her posts have been minimal and following others' logic, if she does...

[Mr. Flay]

The problem, PeaceBringer, is not only are you somewhat suspicious, but now you've called yourself out to be killed by *somebody* at night, by claiming your death will make the town "sick". So why *shouldn't* we use you to check mith? With multiple scum groups, there's a possibility for either or both of you to be scum, although there is a *small* chance that you're both town.

I'm not wed to the idea of mith vigging PB, but I'm not as opposed to it as I was before. I definitely would rather see Gaspode replaced than just fade away, unless we think we can lynch him before Tuesday (I hate replacements, I think I've mentioned this).

We're in danger of stalling out here or having another no-lynch, folks...

[Mr. Flay]

Since we're not getting explicit role-descriptions on death, I'm not surprised there have been so many power-claims. A cult or ambiguous evil group could stand to try the ploy until one of them dies. Unfortunately, we'd have to kill one of them to test it...

FOS: Genocide Heart

for wanting to test the masons by "fire".

The problem I have with lynching PB or Coron is that they ALWAYS play like this. Nonsensical posts, lousy/lack of logic, and jumping around like a chihuahua on amphetamines doesn't endear me to them, but it doesn't make them scum yet. I'd rather see them night-killed or investigated at this point, we've got better targets, like some of the lurkers.

[Mr. Flay]

What's the current vote tally?

This may be wrong, but the Count-Counter gives me this:
-------------------------------------------------

Completely UNOFFICIAL, back-of-the-envelope Vote Count:
-------------------------------------------------
Locus Cosecant- 7 (Genocide Heart, SubtleTactix, PookyTheMagicalBear, Thoth, Aelyn, mith, The_Machine86)
mith- 5 (Electra, Iammars, Locus Cosecant, PeaceBringer, SinisterOverlord)
DoomCow- 4 (Peachy, Coron, rolandofthewhite, Olio)
Gaspode- 1 (Fuldu)

Not voting (9): DarkLight140, Dragon Phoenix, Seol, Mr. Flay, Gaspode, JDTAY, Pitbull, DoomCow, Korais

14 to lynch.

------------------------------------------------

I'm willing to believe several of the people still on the Locus/mith bandwagons are scum, trying to either force a no-lynch (1/2 of all votes + 1 have to be on the lynchee, even for deadline, for it to count) or a desperation lynch. The way I read it, once DL140 or LC dies, we'll have confirmation of their masonness or not. There appears to be enough nightkills to make this plausible enough to not waste a lynch on it.

I also need to

FOS: Peachy, Coron, and rolandofthewhite

for jumping onto an extraneous bandwagon on DoomCow when we had two going already (see above comments about 1/2 + 1 of votes). It's not that I don't think DoomCow's behavior isn't scummy, but Peachy pulled that out of thin air and two people jumped right on it, thinning the vote count considerably. olio at least waited until DC had posted another non-defense, so no FOS on him. roland and Coron have already been acting somewhat suspicious to boot, and Peachy's been lurking hardcore.

If it's 14 to lynch, then it's 8 to deadline-lynch, and there can be NO MORE than 7 other votes going on anywhere, right

mods

? Right now I don't particularly like ANY of the three leaders for a lynch, but we've only got a few days. mith at least claims to be verifiable, and LC has DL140 sticking up for him thus far.

Vote: DoomCow

to put him out of our misery.

HOS: Fuldu

for crap logic in telling olio to stop wasting a vote on DC when Fuldu's own is a single vote on Gaspode...

Dragon Phoenix says he quit the game in April; why wasn't he replaced at the same time I was? JDTAY is also awol; but most of the rest of you are still around enough to make/change your votes before the deadline.

[Mr. Flay]

I think I will

Vote: roland

.

What. The. Hell. With everything going on, you're starting

another

bandwagon target? We've got less than 48 hours to find 8 or more votes on someone, and pare down the extraneous votes to avoid a no-lynch. If you know something about Gaspode's innocence, you might as well just say it at this point.

I agree there's way too many masonries going right now, but I think we should let the night-kills sort some of it out, rather than do the scum's dirty work.

Unvote: DoomCow

on DarkLight140's word (for now),

Vote: Gaspode

for the sake of my sanity.

mith, where are you aiming now? Our protective roles need to know who not to protect if we're actually going to test you... I'd almost say put Aelyn out of the game, since he apparently doesn't want to be here, but at this point I'm royally confused.

With my vote, I think that puts Gaspode and mith at 5, LC at 4, DC with 3, and rolandofthewhite with 1. (unofficially)

[Mr. Flay]

Well that was certainly an interesting rush to achieve the numbers necessary... by my notes we're at 11 for Gaspode, 4 for mith still, and 2 for LC. That would make a deadline lynch possible.

I'll certainly be keeping those numbers no matter what Gaspode turns out to be, because I'm sure that there are other scum groups willing to kill him, even no matter what he turns out to be.

[Mr. Flay]

Okay, we're finally back, but what in the hell happened to Dragon Phoenix? Modkilled for what? I'm going to guess that Death/Gaspode was the "unexplainable deaths" of certain players, and we may not see any more of those.

With both Coron and PB pro-town (apparently), I'd say we're looking for the other Horsemen at this point. I notice that The_Machine86 wasn't willing to vote for him, though he did unvote. Genocide Heart's post 613 is worrisome too, because it echoes the "replace hm, don't lynch him" that Gaspode himself was trying to pull.

Also, what do we think of the claimed masons now? I've forgotten half of what I knew when night fell...

[Mr. Flay]

~shakes head~ I knew there was a chance PB would turn out to be pro-town, but surely he could have done a better job defending himself. I'm not having a good game as far as the newer players go, that's for sure.

Will need to reread some tonight (need to get some things done for once at Uni.) and hopefully I'll find someone else to go after.

HOS: mith

I'm not fond of this. Now we know mith has the ability he says he does, but not whether he's pro-town or not. He's also claimed a Miller-type role that shows up guilty to investigations, so we (probably) can't verify him via our cops. Role-claims are illegal, which is what I'd ask for in this situation. And your comment is

"well, I'll find someone else to go after"

? If you can't come up with a way to actually ascertain your worth to the town, we may have to lynch you on principle at this point. After all, there weren't any "extra" kills last night, so you could have been using a mafia/SK bluff.

Your kill method *was* different than we've seen previously. Does anyone have a reasonable theory for who would kill via fish? There was the fish-blockade in the book, so it's possible... does anyone remember who caused that?

mith, we've probably asked this before, but have you killed before? And did you get to choose the manner in which you executed PeaceBringer?

[Mr. Flay]

Going out of town for a few days, but I'm taking the book with me to reread. Maybe more of the night events will make sense to me then.

I'll probably be able to check in from time to time, but for now

Vote: Aelyn

for reasons related to the way the Gaspode lynch panned out yesterday.

[Mr. Flay]

Going out of town for a few days, but I'm taking the book with me to reread. Maybe more of the night events will make sense to me then.

I'll probably be able to check in from time to time, but for now

Vote: Aelyn

for reasons related to the way the Gaspode lynch panned out yesterday.

[Mr. Flay]

And your comment is "well, I'll find someone else to go after"? If you can't come up with a way to actually ascertain your worth to the town, we may have to lynch you on principle at this point. After all, there weren't any "extra" kills last night, so you could have been using a mafia/SK bluff.

I was refering to voting, not killing. You know, that thing we do during the day that usually decides whether the town wins or not? As for the rest, it seems based on ignorance rather than suspicion. Refer to "Read the book".

Ehhh. I have read the book, but the rain-of-fish thing didn't seem to be tied to any one particular character. However I reread it on the plane, and I think I can see who you are and why you've turned out the way you have.

UN-HOS: mith

...? Anyway...

well Peachy gave me bad vibes too. I'm not quite sure how useful my ability is now

I'm in agreement about Pooky's abilities, and Peachy was already setting off my scumdar yesterDay with her lurking. Aelyn's sorta-kinda-not-really interrogation of her doesn't make me any more confident of his innocence, but in the meantime

Unvote: Aelyn, Vote: Peachy

.

[Mr. Flay]

Back in town. Happy with my vote on Peachy still, but I'd like to see more from our investigative roles.

[Mr. Flay]

You have forgotten the face of your father.

In other news, what the hell?

OMGUS FOS

: rolandoftheslightlygray - but I believe he usually plays better than this, so I won't switch votes. I'm not convinced this was a slipup, but it's damned bizarre.

Still content with my vote on Peachy. Sorry if you've backed yourself into a corner and all of that, but you still read as scum to me. If you're a townie... well, it's ineffable.

[Mr. Flay]

The way I see it, we'll know a lot more once we've tested our investigator's veracity/sanity, and Peachy makes a good candidate, given her behavior so far. I know it's a quick day with little talk, but everyone's got more to go on for their choices now... and even if you don't want to end the day, say SOMETHING, people...

[Mr. Flay]

So for reference..

DRAMATIS PERSONAE

SUPERNATURAL BEINGS
God (God)
Metatron (The Voice of God)

Aziraphale (An angel, and part-time rare book dealer)

Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary)

Beelzebub (A Likewise Fallen Angel and Prince of Hell)

Hastur (A Fallen Angel and Duke of Hell)
Ligur (Likewise a Fallen Angel and Duke of Hell)

Crowley (An Angel who did not so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards)

APOCALYPTIC HORSEPERSONS

DEATH (Death)

War (War)
Famine (Famine)

Pollution (Pollution)

HUMANS

Thou-Shalt-Not-Commit-Adultery Pulsifer (A Witchfinder)
Anges Nutter (A Prophetess)

Newton Pulsifer (Wages Clerk and Witchfinder Private)

Anathema Device (Practical Occultist and Professional Descendent)

Shadwell (Witchfinder Sergeant)

Madame Tracy (Painted Jezebel [mornings only, Thursdays by arrangement] and medium)
Sister Mary Loquacious (A Satanic Nun of the Chattering Order of St. Beryl)
Mr. Young (A Father)

Mr. Tyler (A Chairman of a Residents’ Association)

A Delivery Man

THEM

ADAM (An Antichrist)

Pepper (A Girl)

Wensleydale (A Boy)

Brian (A Boy)

Full Chorus of Tibetans, Aliens, Americans, Atlantisans, and other rare and strange Creatures of the Last Days

Atlantisan

AND:

Dog (Satanical hellhound and cat-worrier)

With Satan dead, we can probably assume that God exists as well (answers that question rather conveniently, doesn't it?). If the Horsemen and the Devils (may or may not include Crowley) are adversarial, then it may be fair to assume that anyone truly loyal to heaven is trying to bring about the end of the

world

game as well. Aziraphale might have been on the side of the masses, but he's dead, which leaves Hastur, Ligur, two Horsemen, and possibly God and maybe the Metatron to eliminate. I don't know how we find out if they're on our side or not, though, since they can't claim...

Notable in their absence are the Four Other Horsemen (such as Grievous Bodily Harm, Cruelty To Animals, and the like), but since none of them have died yet, I guess they may not be in the game at all...

What's my point in all of this? With Peachy showing up as a Horseman, we may have a lead on the others.

::sigh::

Unvote; Vote: Peachy.

I would like to point out that rolandofthewhite's recent "defense" of himself consisted of the following

Um... What reasons would that be?

Weak.
Vote:roland of the white

Now, we can argue this might be a case of WIFOM (she knew she was going down, so was she redirecting suspicion from another Horseman, or redirecting it to an innocent? I don't find her subtle enough for the latter. Interestingly, she attacked Aelyn hard in her first post, so I don't think Those From Hell and Those Who Ride Horses are in the same group.

Vote: rolandofthewhite

. His daybreak post isn't helping, either.

[Mr. Flay]

Gyaaargh. I have totally lost track of this game.

So mith, Pooky, and now apparently roland are confirmed. Anybody else? We've got *19* still alive?!?! And no one's here...

Unvote: rolandofthewhite

for now, lacking a better idea.

[Mr. Flay]

In my opinion we also have Darklight, DoomCow and Locus somewhat confirmed.

Thanks, I'd forgotten about the whole mason thing (although with so many still alive, it's hard to believe them at this point).

I believe Genocide Heart was on my short list with Peachy when I first arrived, but is he still around or is he going to be replaced?

Vote: Genocide Heart

tentatively...

[Mr. Flay]

Mmm hmmm. GH's arrival and non-defense doesn't make me feel any less inclined to think he's scum. Vote stays, and I'm a little firmer on it now.

I agree that we need to let our scum sort out the Locus-masons, since if they continue to all three live when we're down to one kill a night, it'll be fairly obvious what's going on...

[Mr. Flay]

I don't see why we need to do the scum's dirty work for them, is all. Genocide Heart is currently under the gun and starts pointing fingers at our supposed mason group. With 19 of us alive, we've got plenty of time left to lynch/night-kill them once they become obvious, if they're lying. They took a tremendous gambit to out

all three of them

if they're really scum, GH... I don't see why you're even entertaining the option of mith being a Duke of Hell. Metatron might be possible, except he/it had nothing to do with the falling fish in the book... Agnes is sort of an outside possibility. PeaceBringer's death was unfortunate, but it gave us quite a bit of information.

mith, if this is legal - do you propose to have any mason partners/people who can vouch for you? Maybe that will help clear this up, but I don't want to see you mod-killed for 'claiming'.

[Mr. Flay]

And Mr. Flay, I consider Mith either supernatural (Fallen angels, god, metatron, Adam, Dog) or Agnes, as the fish are a sign of the apocalypse, supernatural and unpredictable in nature, and too weird for anyone else. But if you don't think Mith is supernatural or agnes, who

do

you think he is?

No, sorry, I'm pretty sure he's either Agnes or Adam; I was considering Adam as 'supernatural' in your context, I just didn't categorize them explicitly in the same way.

Personally, I think he's probably innocent and am suspicious of our supposed mason group. Especially since Adam is such a nice fit and upsets their most obvious innocent roles.

I do as well. It's *really* annoying that they can't even tell us what masonic group they're claiming...is Them really the only one with three people left? I mean, the 'obvious' ones, not the Atlantisians and that sort of random crap...

And I still don't like the "We'll wait for the scum to kill them or for them to not die" idea. Either way, a scum group can milk it for free days, and with two deaths a night plus missed lynches plus your second scum group, you might end up cutting it a bit close. Seems a bit unnecessary, especially when we could even just consider and discuss other possibilities, which we apparently don't like to do?

Honestly, if you turn up town, I'm ready to lynch one of them tomorrow. I'm not especially enthused about the fact that both mith AND the three of them all continue to live, but it's going to be easy-peasy to lynch them once the town decides they are untenable. If mith starts actually killing scum, they might try to off him...unless mith is an SK. Damnit.

This game confuses the *&%^%@#^$ out of me...

Unvote if I was.

.

[Mr. Flay]

Scanning backward says I was voting for GH; he's got me concerned about this whole which-masons-are-they thing for LC, DC, and DL. If we can't find a reasonable group for all of them to be in *and* account for mith's powers, then someone in that group may be lying. Reading back over the main page now, there's

• God, the Metatron, Hastur and Ligur left for superbeings (and they wouldn't all be on the same team, I'm sure);
• War & Famine for the Horsepersons;
• Agnes, TSNCA Pulsifer, Mme Tracy, Sister Mary Chatterbox, Mr. Young and a Delivery Man alive for the normal humans, no three of which I can see being a mason group;
• and Adam, Wensleydale, and (possibly) Dog as a three-person mason/mafia.

That's the only reasonable choice for the three-man mason they're claiming, since they said it was "obvious from rereading", thereby leaving out the Americans, Atlantisians, etc. That pushes mith to my second choice of Agnes, which works out okay, if not great... and mith, I don't think you ever answered my question of whether you get to talk with anybody else at night?

::edit while posting::

I just caught something GH said (which could obviously be taken with a grain of salt): If Sister Mary Loquacious is recruitable/a mafia spy with the Hell mafia, then that could make a three-entity group. I still think it's far-fetched that they would out three scum in one day to save one person, but it's possible. Maybe.

I still think GH has a pretty good chance of being another Horseman, but that doesn't mean he's not helping us catch somebody else; there's still 2-3 groups potentially out there that don't have the town's best interest at heart. Yes, we scored a hit on Peachy yesterday, but we learned almost nothing else, it was such an open-and-shut case. I'd almost be inclined to say Scum (non-Horsepersons, anyway) would be *more* likely to vote for Peachy yesterday than town, since they'd know it would benefit their side no matter what she turned out to be. Except Pooky, who is pretty obviously what he says he is, that leaves mith, Fuldu, myself, DarkLight140, Aelyn, Locus Cosecant, Thoth, olio, mneme, PookyTheMagicalBear, rolandofthewhite, and korais666. I'll note that korais66 and rolandofthegrey's votes were both after deadline, and roland had some truly bizarre almost-defending-Peachy moments before he switched his vote from me to her. Those two would be candidates for the 4th Horseman in my book (still working with the thought that GH may be the 3rd). I don't think both of them are Horsepersons, that's too big of a voting block to just sacrifice your partner...maybe. Korais has been fairly quiet, but I've already given my suspicions about roland in post 724. And with the theory that God and the Metatron may be anti-town, we may not be able to count on Pooky to discover them. Except that makes roland not on Peachy's team...aaaaargh. I'm just talking out loud here, people. I've got about 5 people I could reasonably vote for, but SO MANY NOT TALKING is making it very difficult to make progress. korais666 last posted on 6/8, Electra on 4/6, Blackberry not at all...except I'm not even *on* that post 2 list, so I don't know how accurate it is.

mod

, please?? We're dying here...

olio, you said that GH's defense of Aelyn makes him scum, but we've also got a bunch of people thinking he's on Peachy's team. Can't be both, I assume (a 7-man mafia would be too much)... maybe he's just reading as scum to everybody.

[Mr. Flay]

No, name of the

mason

as in my one and only partner mason.

Being as Coron turned out to be a Witchfinder, I can assume that we've only got two of the three Witchfinders listed in the cast, so we've located one of the two named cast that aren't in the game (not sure this helps a lot, but every little bit).

If mith is who I currently think he is, then I think I know who Pooky is. But hellfire and damnation, I don't know if I trust mith anymore. Going back over old posts, there's a lot of subtle defense of Gaspode and Peachy by mith on Day One, or at least not finding them suspicious. As far as I can tell, mith hasn't netted us any scum yet, and Pooky got the same bad vibe off of mith that he did off of Peachy. Maybe mith should kill roland tonight, assuming roland isn't another Horseperson...

Right now, I could go for GH, mith, or roland, based on existing theories. I'm not finding korais all that compelling, because it looks like a lurker/vanished player hunt as much as anything else. Hasn't posted since May? I don't know what to do with this game...I'm not even certain we have enough active players to lynch someone at this stage. Looks like some replacements are coming, though.

[Mr. Flay]

*laugh* And the "worst" thing is, even if we guess someone's role right, they can't confirm (or, I assume, deny) it in any way!

Madness, I tell you. I know it sets me out, but I really think it best right now to

Vote: rolandofthewhite

. Even with Pooky's result, I feel that he's not been playing well with the town this game.

[Mr. Flay]

rolando:

• You've been pretty much a voter and not a commenter, which in a game with as many scum groups as this one is easy to read as scum/SK behavior (as long as we're not aiming at one of your team, you don't care who you vote for).
• You voted for me when most everyone else thought Pooky had Peachy dead to rights, and then "enjoyed" the response to that bizarre behavior "immensely".
• Your behavior at the news of Satan's death was... nonplussed, to say the least.
• You say you haven't read the book, but you've been unwilling/unable to find it and read it in order to participate more fully.
• You've been cozying up to our only outed investigator, in multiple posts.
• As we've been theorizing, a "good vibe" from Pooky doesn't necessarily mean you're on the side of the town. You could be working for Armageddon.

How's that for a start?

[Mr. Flay]

I could go for GH, but I'm not able to read/decide anything when 3/4 of the players aren't talking...back later today, gotta go to work.

[Mr. Flay]

So Blackberry replaces Iammars who replaced lazarusmoth, right? I'm really not liking his logic of that post, but maybe he's just a newbie jumping into a convoluted game...on the other hand, perhaps he 'sucks'. But fire-and-forget with your vote right before you leave town reeks to me. And neither of his previous incarnations had anything too helpful to say/add. I suggest that when he get back in town he take the hour or two and READ all the previous pages and actually take note of what's going on. I know it's long and confusing, but hey, that's what Mafia is about in my world...

On the other hand, olio's only real 'confirmation' of his innocence is what Seol termed a "stone-cold bluff" when mith got outted as a vigilante, correct? That's no real proof... man, the list of scummy people just rises the more people post. But at least they're posting!

Right now, I'm not prepared to vote for either of the above, just because there's not enough of a case to get the ball rolling. But if anyone else has thoughts, go for it (we might just get some momentum going!).

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote: rolandofthegrey, Vote: Genocide Heart

. More later probably after I correlate with Fuldu II's color-coded cast list, but we're never gonna get to 19 (:roll:) without my vote...

Dragon Slayer, thank you for finding replacements and continuing to give this game life. But could you please, please, pretty please replace FD's name in the second post with mine? Shanks.

[Mr. Flay]

Still happy with my vote. Is there a way to ensure that our supposed-cop and supposed-vigilante don't hit the same target at night?

[Mr. Flay]

Wait -

Dragon Slayer, deadline THIS Saturday?

Just checking... and can we get a vote count before that time, so we know how close we are to being able to lynch?

mith - good point, I'm just finding a target-rich environment right now, but maybe that just means it's a good thing I'm not the vigilante.

While I agree with Blackberry being pretty scummy, the short time frame left to us and his absence make it very unlikely we can trigger a lynch on him. I'm still not convinced he's not just a newbie, anyway. Maybe a night will prove otherwise...

[Mr. Flay]

I would also like to state that I am not scum and that I am a mason role. I'm assuming I am aloud to say that because I didn't disclose which role I am.

Annoyingpest - if you are replacing PitBull I would appreciate if you confirmed my mason role.

Crap. Assuming that DS was talking about *this* Saturday like it appears, we're too late to switch, but I'm thinking it's time to test someone of the Masons, any Masons....

[Mr. Flay]

Well, we were right about Genocide Heart, but for the wrong reasons... this is all very interesting, because it means there's still Two Horsepersons left alive. Neither seems likely to have caused a death by fire, though... mith, did you end up killing last night after all? Maybe we've got a one-shot vigilante out there...

I'm a little wobbly on mith now, with the Them outed by Locus Cosecant's death. Fuldu II, who were you thinking mith is yesterday, and does it still jibe? And why is everybody jumping down Blackberry's throat?? Because he didn't vote for GH?

[Mr. Flay]

mith: I'm FD's replacement.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm actually with Thoth on this one; early and unforced mason claims alaways seem suicidal rather than scummy. BTW Thoth, since DarkLight140 can't tell you himself, the current working theory is that since Locus Cosecant was Dog, DL and DoomCow (now Fuldu II) are the two surviving members of the Them group, presumably pro-town. That does make one of them a fairly unobvious Adam (with no powers?), which I have difficulty with... Fuldu, it appears you're allowed to 'name' mith, even though he can't confirm or deny... what minor character are you thinking? I've been thinking he's Adam for so long that now I'm confused and suspicious...

No pro-town players confirm what someone else says your role name is, unless you want a mod-kill

. Anti-town players of course are free to do what they want... (which begs the question of what would happen with a false role-claim)

The other mason group, while I'm claiming for other people (this game is so weird), could be something like the Homeowner's association. There's not really many

evil

'groups' left either, unless someone thinks that Blackberry & PitBull are the two Horsemen, or God & the Metatron...

Pooky: DOOM! Or not.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not comfortable voting Blackberry w/o even hearing from PitBull... so no vote yet. However if I'm reading the first post correctly, Thoth has been here since the beginning, and we're still getting two anti-town kills, which means our scum are still active (and may even be a significant plurality of the active people). Thoth's confusion doesn't sit well with me, but I can't remember much before yesterday either, mainly because of all the replacing...

That's all for now.

[Mr. Flay]

Exactly. I'm not ready to string ANYBODY up right now, simply because we haven't garnered hardly any more information from the Day. If you weren't nearly confirmed as innocent (and that assumes our theory on who the scum are is correct, something you could be using to our advantage), I'd say you would be a good target. But you *seem* to be trying, which is more than I can say for most in this game...

I admit it. I am totally lost. With all the replacements, the extra-long nights and uber-long days, I have next to no idea what's going on from page to page. I don't have the 6 hours it would take to read back over and piece it all together, at least not this weekend...

[Mr. Flay]

Fuldu:

Blonde Anchorwoman: Good morning, it is 8AM on day 5. Two tragedies occurred lat night. What investigators believe to be a dog was found

burned almost beyond any recognition

. The owned has not been identified and has not stepped forward. Our scene reporter has the update on the other terrible event of last night. Locus Cosecant, dog, was found killed night 5.

(emphasis added)

We're still getting a burn kill at night, which does lean toward being the Dukes of Hell's calling card. I'm also perplexed by the fact that the Horsemen deaths, assuming there have been some, are no longer being identified by who does the killing, but it's *possible* that this is due to Polotet having gone AWOL in a dramatic fashion... remember that he wrote the 'died of malnutrition' scene.

So, Blackberry has come as close to claiming as is possible, in his last post (and DON'T CONFIRM THIS, Blackberry, unless you want to get modkilled) by asking about the God/Metatron = mafia theory. I'm starting to think we got it wrong about that, which makes me wonder if we got led by the nose on that... at least one of our Horsepersons and Hastur are still alive, after all.

Going back to the beginning, like Inigo Montoya:

Alive (16/32)
=================
DarkLight140
Locus Cosecant (who can't possibly actually be alive -

mods!?!

)
SinisterOverlord
Mneme (replaces Seol [replaces NanookTheWolf])

Mr. Flay

(replaces Flying Dutchman)
SubtleTactix
AnnoyingPest (The Machine 86 (replaces KingEnigma))
Olio
Blackberry (replaces Iammars (replaces lazarusmoth))
Thoth
Esme (replaces JDTAY)
Pitbull (replaces PBuG)
Fuldu II (replaces DoomCow)
Electra
mith
PookyTheMagicalBear
Korais666

Dead (16/32)

with 'suspects' added

=================
Internet Stranger (Brian, A Boy, and member of Them) was burned, Night 1.

(Dukes of Hell)

Porro (Pepper, A Girl, and member of Them) died of malnutrition, Night 1.

(Famine)

Mole (Aziraphale, An angel, and part-time rare book dealer) was run over, and has presumably discorporated, Night 1.

(Them/Horsepersons?)

Mastermind of Sin (Beelzebub, A Likewise Fallen Angel and Prince of Hell) died, and has presumably discorporated, Night 1.

(unidentifiable death - Death/Horsepersons?)

mepmuff (Newton Pulsifer, Wages Clerk and Witchfinder Private) was run over, Night 2.

(Them/Horsepersons)

Stewie (Crowley, An Angel who did not so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards) died, and has presumably discorporated, Night 2.

(unidentifiable death - Death/Horsepersons?)

Gaspode (DEATH) was lynched, and discorporated, Day 2.
Dragon Phoenix (Atlantisan, Townie) was mod killed, Night 3.
PeaceBringer (Anathema Device, Practical Occultist and Professional Descendent) was crushed by fish, Night 3.

(mith, supposedly, though this means no Horseperson kill)

Coron (Shadwell, Witchfinder Sergeant) was burned, Night 3.

(Dukes of Hell)

Peachy, Pollution (Pollution), was lynched day 3.
Aelyn, Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary), died night 4.

(Horsepersons? the same 'unnatural causes' style as N1)

Fuldu, Mr. Tyler (A Chairman of a Residents' Association), was enveloped by fire, and died, night 4.

(Dukes of Hell)

Genocide Heart, Ligur (Likewise Fallen Angel and Duke of Hell), was lynched day 4.
Locus Cosecant, Dog (Satanical hellhound and cat-worrier), died night 5.

(burned - Dukes of Hell)

Rolandofthewhite, Madame Tracy (Painted Jezebel [mornings only, Thursdays by arrangement] and medium), died night 5.

(just plain died - Horsepersons?)

And now for my not-quite-six-hour review of the thread:

• Pooky voted for gaspode, hated Coron and PeaceBringer (I think). Got a 'dead innocent' N1 (IS?) and mith as 'bad vibes' N2, Peachy w/'bad vibes' on N3, innocent result on roland N4, no investigation N5.
  
• I'm starting to wonder if Pooky and mith are Horsepersons together. However he did guess right on roland, when there was no incentive to clear his name. Why didn't roland, as a Painted Jezebel, give him bad vibes though??
  
• Only two 'death by bike/run-over' so far. We should be able to ask the surviving Them if they killed with bikes Night 1, and any other night. Otherwise, the bike deaths are probably another Horseperson, which is disquieting since we already have Famine killing N1. Maybe they all have a one-shot in addition to a group 'run them over'?
  
• SinisterOverlord had a good analysis of the game on Day One... maybe too good. Then he dropped off the face of the game for a long time, and ended up voting Gaspode when there was no real wagon against him. Probably townish.
  
• SubtleTactix thought the burning death was Witchfinders, as well. (this in addition to DEATH and Ligur, for reference). Later went after Aelyn. VERY lurky. Also liked the idea of 'testing' the Them by lynching one of them, which is suspicious. Possibly Hastur.
  
• Blackberry replaced Iammars/lazarusmoth, which could become important later. lazarusmoth wanted to go for Coron, an easy target, in post 106.
  
• korais666 said he hadn't read the book, and had an interesting comment about the bike-related death in post 35.
  
• KingEnigma might be one of the witchfinders...
  
• Electra was almost as unhelpful as Peachy, though I'm probably exposing some sort of anti-cute-female-avatar bias here... she put the 8th of 14 votes onto mith D2, and then didn't worry about removing it or not. Very silent overall.
  
• Genocide Heart defended korais666 in post 87, and to a lesser extent mepmuff.
  
• There almost surely cannot be a "Homeowner's Association" masonic group, because Fuldu was Mr. Tyler and replaced back in. That eliminates one more mason group from consideration.
  
• DarkLight140 was awfully non-committal on the whole Aelyn-Gaspode connection, in post 228. Also jumped on the Coron wagon instead of keeping his vote on korais666. korais666 voted for Coron shortly afterward (so did Pooky, Stewie, Gaspode, etc, but we know - or think we know - their allegiances). However he later turned out to be a mason with Locus, so that all goes out the window...
  
• Seol also hopped on Coron in post 276, and he's been less committal than usual. Then all the people who are suspicious dropped off the radar while LC/Stewie/Coron/mith/olio discussed the Coron & Gaspode wagons... and later in the late 300s, he wanted Coron to give up his mason partner. Also in post 451 he claimed that Pooky's investigation was *verified* non-insane, non-naive, non-paranoid, when there was no such thing (we don't even know who Pooky investigated N1, for instance).
  
• lazarusmoth (Blackberry's predecessor) was strangely ambivalent about voting Gaspode or Coron in post 369. Wanted other people to give their suspicions... hadn't read the book. He did find Peachy's argument about lynching Gaspode 'compelling'...
  
• Thoth, interestingly, bought Coron's claim/innocence sight unseen. Since mepmuff was Coron's partner, I find this interesting...but probably pro-town. On the other hand, he jumped RIGHT onto mith's 'guilt' when Pooky initially posted it...
  
• I don't get Pooky's role. If mith = Agnes (my current best theory, barring mith being scum), then I could see Pooky getting a bad vibe IF he was a Witchfinder. But unless Pooky = TSNCA Pulsifer and NOT part of the modern-day masonic group that was Coron and Mepmuff, there's none left, really (DarkLight140 mentioned this possibility in post 787). Obviously none of them can confirm this, but I'll throw it out there. mith keeps saying his role name should be OBVIOUS... and it would be terribly ironic if Agnes killed her own Professional Descendant. But Pooky got the same 'bad vibe' for Peachy (a Horseperson) as he did for mith (supposedly pro-town).
  
• Why is olio voting for LC in post 473???
  
• DoomCow (who became Fuldu II) had something interesting in his last post (564), saying he was looking for a particular player before his role could become useful. Then he turned out to be a member of Them, assuming Locus' death means anything at all. Does that mean they didn't know who Adam was??? Or they had to find each other to become masons (which might explain the early outing, especially if DarkLight140 is Adam, as he confirmed both of the others).
  
• TheMachine86 (formerly KingEnigma, now AnnoyingPest) stalled quite a bit on the Gaspode lynch of D2, which could point to him being a Horseperson.
  
• PitBull/PBuG is supposedly Blackberry's masonic partner... neither of them, in any incarnation, has been very helpful to the game.

All of which leads me to my List:

1. SinisterOverlord/SubtleTactix/Electra/korais666
   
2. Blackberry
   
3. Thoth/Mneme
   
4. mith/Pooky
   
5. olio/AnnoyingPest/PitBull
   
6. esme/DarkLight140/Fuldu II
   
7. me

List not guaranteed to be accurate. Void where prohibited. You may have other rights/abilities not enumerated in this post. Contact your lawyer for details.

Vote: korais666

Finally, my questions:
1. DarkLight or Fuldu II: Since we can ask about abilities, I think I can ask you this: Did your mason group have a night kill that you used N1 or N2?
2. Anyone: Why was there no identifiable Duke of Hell kill Night 2? Maybe if/when Satan killed for the group, it was via a different mechanism...
3. If 2 is true,

[Mr. Flay]

3b. If 2 is true, then why is there no Horseperson-type kill Night 3? Actually this doesn't follow from 2, it's a separate question....

[Mr. Flay]

Not really sure what you're trying to imply here.

Thoth, interestingly, bought Coron's claim/innocence sight unseen.

Why exactly is that interesting? As I said only a few posts ago a false mason claim for scum has no chance of working in the long run. It may keep you alive a bit longer, but it won't win you the game.

Well, it was 'interesting' in a note to myself in Notepad while rereading the whole thread, but nothing much ever came of it. I've agreed with your later statements about false mason claims, so it can probably be disregarded.

On the other hand, he jumped RIGHT onto mith's 'guilt' when Pooky initially posted it...

Excuse me? Is it suspicious now that I vote Mith after someone posts this:

vote Mith

investigation says guilty, i got a dead innocent day one so I am fairly certain of my sanity,

nuff said

That Pooky later turned out to not be a straight cop is not something I could make up from this post.

Mmm hmmm. In a large themed game by these mods, based on this book, you automatically inferred 100% sanity/veracity on Pooky's part and non-Millerness on mith's? Granetd, I wasn't here that day, but I don't think I'd have been so quick... but I'm always suspicious, of everybody (except myself).

[Mr. Flay]

You cannot let go of dozens of scum just for the occasional game in which the mod adds a miller role.

Of course not. But much like a mason claim, you can wait on them sometimes for more information/behavior to come to light. And I still maintain that

Good Omens

is particularly ripe for a Miller/insane-investigator type role.

Which is not to say I'm defending mith, per se. His night kill has yet to yield us any gold, and with two-three scum groups out there, joining on someone else's lynch during the day is not that hard. But there doesn't seem to be any concensus to go after him right now (indeed, there's hardly any chatter at all, besides the 3-4 of us ). I'm not sure if Annoyingpest is just being...well, annoying, or if the "mith has been leading crusades" is his heartfelt belief.

[Mr. Flay]

Mr. Flay: I believe I have dropped enough hints for a careful reader to figure out my role. That you continue to cling to your "best theory" in spite of the evidence is extremely peculiar.

Well, consider it from my perspective. My first choice for a role that kills with fish (Adam) is not possible now, for you. My second choice doesn't seem to meet with your approval, though of course you can't *tell* me when/if I get it right. No other characters fit both criteria (scummy-seeming and supernatural) in my worldview, so what am I left with?

It's not like we have a choice of another investigator to validate you with, apparently. You're immune to Pooky (or at least irrelevant), and you keep claiming how your 'game is off', which is why you're not doing all that well at catching scum either during the day or at night. Plus, if you're a pro-town vigilante, why are you still alive?? For that matter, why is Pooky still alive? It's not like the scum couldn't overwhelm/outfox a protective role *once* in a while... they've certainly got a good enough shooting average with other players. You two are our only outed 'power' roles, and yet you're both still breathing...

On the negative side of my theory, I really can't conceive of either a Horseman or a Duke of Hell killing with fish, either... unless Satan covered for you, or something weird. It's not enough for me to vote you, today, but how long are we supposed to suffer a Miller to live? Thoth has a point, there... right now, I'ev still got better targets. But since *you* can't tell me what your role is, and *I* can't seem to guess it... I'm continuing to work with the Agnes theory.

[Mr. Flay]

*smacks forehead* Got it. Finally got it, mith. You're right, it takes damn careful reading. If you're really that person, then it clears up all of the ambiguity around your role, and several other possibilities become clearer (basically, that dead people can be player Roles, something I wasn't entirely certain of before).

I wonder if Pooky's allowed to tell us if he's 'dead' in the modern timeframe?

ATTENTION: Rolando and everyone else who claims not to have any way to get ahold of the book. Oi! Read this PDF!

Print it out if you have to. It should be the *entire* book, and while I'm not certain this is entirely legal, your inaction/inability to contribute to the game

is

criminal.

[Mr. Flay]

Errr, right, sorry, I forgot that *I* can say who I think somebody else is.

I'm indeed talking about Charles Fort. Here's the line from the book:

Adam's eyes were agleam with the joy of knowledge.
It had been 3:00 A.M. before he'd gone to sleep under a pile of New Aquarians.
"An' then there was this man called Charles Fort," he said. "He could make it rain fish and frogs and stuff."

This jibes well with the concept of a non-Adam character who can cause a rain of fish, he's a little mean (his whole schtick in the real world wasn't that he *did* these things, but that he documented them, trying to prove they weren't real - a skeptic, in other words) as discussed with Seol way back when, and it satisfies the "not all roles will be in the cast list" statement by the mods.

My one remaining question (which is the same as Fuldu's) can't really be answered by mith at this point since we seem to have pegged him, so I guess I'll have to believe him for now. Surely mith realizes that if all other scum die and we're still not dead, he's probably next.

Fuldu, why did you go back to the Metatron=evil theory? We seem to only have two kills per night, Devils and Horsemen, unless we've got a surplus of protective roles out there... not that I'm disagreeing that I think Blackberry & Fritzler are that pairing, just what motive I think they have. I think Fritlzer/PitBull/PBuG is just clueless so far...

Still content with my vote on korais666 for now, though if he's absent and get's replaced, I'm gonna be ticked...

[Mr. Flay]

Fuldu, I think you should listen to Mr. Flay, he seems extremelly intelligent.

I really can't decide if you're scummy, or just...

unusual

. No vote for now, but really, please put in some of your own thoughts rather than currying favor or parroting other people's words.

Fuldu, actually in rereading one of the Other Four Horsemen changes his name while he's dying to "People Buried By Fish", so it's conceivable they could be in the game, and have that kill. However that either means that mith is the ONLY one of them in the game, or that we've got 3-4 more scum in the game than we thought. With ... what, 17 alive (?), two horsemen and a Duke of Hell amongst them, that puts us uncomfortably close to Lynch or Lose. It also means we'd have had something on the order of 12-14 scum originally, which is possible.... I dunno. I'd forgotten about Night One, though... those four kills are suddenly uglier than before.

[Mr. Flay]

Fritzler: True, I had miscalculated on that. We've actually got an absurd lead on scum at this point, unless the Horsemen and the Other Horsemen are aligned. With so many inactive people (but less than before, thank you DS), that's going to make it tough right now.

Fuldu: Somehow I skipped reading the last line of your post about Scuzz, and was stuck on the Charles Fort ideosyncracies. Like I said, the bit about "this character is so much fun" doesn't really apply to Fort, but on the other hand, mith could have enough obscure knowledge to like Fortean jokes in general... The minute Pigbog or Ansaphones comes up dead, though, I'll switch to your theory... just not sure enough yet.

Overall, the Horsemen+Devils don't provide enough scum for a 32 player game, so you're probably right that there's more out there (unless they've got extra kills, which might account for N1). How do we figure out who is who though, without lynching at random? There's so many theories out there right now... I could see the Metatron as evil, but virtually undetectable, or the Other Horsemen are a long shot, and Sister Mary Loquacious is probably still around...

[Mr. Flay]

At this point, I think I'm willing to test olio with a vig kill. His super-bluff may have been too good to be true. Other good candidates would be any of our suspicious absentees, like korais666 or SubtleTactix.

Frankly, I want to hear more about why Fritzler wants to lynch esme (who replaced JDTAY). Something's shifted in my mind about her, it may have just been her out-of-the-gate postiness, then silence, then postiness recently when someone voices suspicions about her. Reminds me of Peachy...

[Mr. Flay]

Mr. Flay, where do you get your willingness?

Your claim to be willing to be vig-killed the other day, when we were trying to sort out mith's guilty result. Killing a 'confirmed' (in your own eyes) townie is no way to win a game, so this strikes me as anti-town behavior even if you're telling the truth. Your intermittent silence whenever the heat is not on you. Getting more data about mith's kill methods.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Really, Blackberry is just as good a target as any at this point, as his behavior has been even more unhelpful, even if he may have a greater shot at being an actual mason. I still don't like the idea of the town doing the scum's night killing for them, but we're in an odd place...

[Mr. Flay]

Killing a 'confirmed' (in your own eyes) townie is no way to win a game, so this strikes me as anti-town behavior even if you're telling the truth.

I see this from a different point of view. I win with the town - if my death helps town to win, so be it.

And how does your death, as a pro-town player, help the town, if it reduces our margin by one? Worse, it means all the scum groups are free to target someone else, thus reducing the likelihood of a double-kill on you for claiming townie. I think I understand what you were trying to do, but I found it a crappy way to go about things. Now that we seem to have established a better ratio of town:scum, I'm more willing to chance that you might be bluffing. The other option might be to see what Pooky gets for investigating you.

Do you think vig shouldn't be confirmed?

Explain please, how your death, specifically, would have confirmed the vigilante better than anyone else's. If you and mith were/are both pro-town, then you were taking one for the team in the worst possible way. We ended up going for someone more suspicious, and still turned out to be wrong. That happens. How would substituting you, on a day you were under no (or almost no) suspicion, have helped?

vote: Korais

Why now? What's your reasoning, just the deadline?

[Mr. Flay]

Pooky got a dead innocent Day One, mith guilty Day Two, Peachy on Day Three, roland not guilty on Day Four, missed Day Five, and no idea yet what he got on Day Six. Right? Pooky now appears to be reliable, which probably dooms him, assuming he's not protected. So hopefully he's got good news today, i.e. not missing his investigation.

I'd say it's safe to say olio/Warlock died to the Other Four Horsemen (I told you they were there!), but it's not really feasible to say whether he was pro-town or not. Probably pro, since he never had any powers in the book, but maybe he counted toward a scum win with the Powers of Hell....*shrug* Doesn't matter much now. Wish I knew what caused his "bluff" Day Two, however... mith/GBH presumably died to Hastur. If I had to guess, War either slept through her kill (not bad) or got blocked (better).

Fritzler and Blackberry still make my nose itch, but maybe Pooky will have something on one of them. For now, I think we have to deal with the possibility that there may be three more Other Horsemen out there... mith could just as easily have sent one of the others to kill via Fish that night, which would satisfy the "my kill method will be different" idea. Interestingly, mith's "finally dead" post doesn't indicate scum or pro-town. Bah!

The first post seems to indicate we're left with (minus two):
God
Metatron
Hastur
War
TSNCA Pulsiphur
Agnes Nutter
Sister Mary Loquatious
Mr. Young
A Delivery Man
Adam
Wensleydale

possibly some others, and maybe three other Other Horsemen. Leaving of two names from the named Dramatis Personae, that still leaves enough room for the other three, not assuming mith to be some weird amalgamation of the bikers. GBH could even have been some of the "unidentifiable deaths" (MoS, Stewie, Aelyn, rolando?)... he never did change names in the books, unlike People Covered in Fish and Ansaphones, or whatever... also, it gives another cause besides Them for Aziraphale's death N2.

What this DOES do is leave room for another "mason" group of evil characters, but I'm still mostly finding it hard to believe that scum would claim multiple masons in this game just to save one person's life.

esme, what makes you think Sister Mary or the Delivery Man are scum? The former I can see, but DEATH ended up killing the latter...not exactly much of an ally.

Annoyingpest/The_Machine86 still stands out in my mind, as does Electra, SinisterOverlord, and SubtleTactix. Mneme/Seol is also somewhat suspicious in my mind, as is esme/JDTAY, for some reason... with korais AND mith coming up scum, we should be able to find some new patterns. But I just had surgery, so I'm going back to bed....

[Mr. Flay]

I don't have a problem with Pooky waiting unless his innocent is in danger, but I'm a little curious why the reluctance now to share. Was rolando in immediate danger when you investigated him? It's been too long...

Anyway, if Pooky dies tonight taking his innocent to the grave, is that better than Pooky's innocent potentially dying? I mean, scum already have several targets, with all the claimed masons around...

[Mr. Flay]

Fritzler, one of the Dukes of Hell is (presumably) still alive, and incinerating people. War may have slept through her kill, or been blocked.

I'm going to have to go read through your other games to see if you're always this clueless...

[Mr. Flay]

At this point we stand as good a chance getting scum by hitting lurkers as anyone else, and I'd rather not try to replace anyone else. If she shows up, so much the better.

Vote: electra

[Mr. Flay]

You are really trying to be suspicious, aren't you?

*laugh* Seriously...I'm more than half tempted to switch to Fritzler. But I'm willing to wait until we find out what's up with Electra (by the way, I think we're at 5 of 7 votes needed to lynch her, for those playing along at home)[/mith].

[Mr. Flay]

You are really trying to be suspicious, aren't you?

Yea thumper and I were talking last night, and he was like "I think everyone knows who we are and you look ridiculously suspicous." And I was like "I bet I can look more suspicous and still get the town to follow me in lynching Electra" So yea, I am.

What the Christ?

Unvote: Electra, Vote: Fritzler

for truly horrible play. If he gets mod-killed before we reach a majority, I'll switch back, but this defies all reason.

I know I said to let scum kill our masons, but I *cannot* figure out what Fritzler is trying to pull by specifically targetting Electra, and if he is by chance innocent, then we've confirmed Blackberry (probably - this game is too weird for words) at least.

[Mr. Flay]

I don't know if "thumper" is a nickname for Blackberry or Blackberry's role, but I got the impression he was merely talking about PMs shared (which is allowed), not his actual role name (which is forbidden). I guess we'll find out,. it just REALLY strikes me as odd, still....

[Mr. Flay]

thumperberris is blackberry's AIM name I think that's what he was talking about

Oh, okay, thanks.

Pooky - perversely, as long as Blackberry & Fritzler keep their mouth shut, we (the rest of us) can talk about the prevailing theory regarding their roles all day long.

They

just can't do anything to confirm when/if we get it right (like mith couldn't even when we 'guessed' the false role that he was hinting at).

My thought was that Adam & Wensleydale are the remainder of the Locus/DarkLight140/DoomCow (or whoever they are, these days) masons, and Fritz & BB *may* be God & the Metatron. Are there any other potential mason groups left that might be pro-town? Fuldu II had a good grasp on this yesterday, where's he at??

[Mr. Flay]

Electra not only hasn't posted in this game since April 6th, that was her last post anywhere. Rather than try to chase yet another replacement, I think there's a fair chance she's either War or one of the Other Horsemen.

Unvote: the truly strange Fritzler, (re)Vote: Electra

. I believe that puts us back at 5/7 (out of 13 total?).

[Mr. Flay]

Fritzler:

mith: I'm FD's replacement.

The front-page post is STILL not correct, I think. I replaced FD on Day Two or Three....but yes, he never posted before that.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not fond of Thoth's willingness to be replaced at this point, but not enough to vote.

Maybe I've just had enough of this being the longest, confusingest, replacingest game I've ever been in...

[Mr. Flay]

*twiddles thumbs while he waits to see what happens*

[Mr. Flay]

Jeezus. I know the town's been doing well on lynches, but why are we being handicapped by now losing

two

presumably pro-town roles to arbitrary modkill??

[Mr. Flay]

Sure, I'm probably jumping the gun on Thoth, but the other modkill was totally arbitrary.

Dragon Phoenix quit, and since we needed all the replacements that were available and he quit rather than vanished, DS and I decided to modkill him rather than replace him. If that makes sense.

I'm just frustrated; please don't modkill me for bitching about it in-thread, I would like to see this game through to the conclusion (or until I die, whichever comes first).

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not fond of Thoth's willingness to be replaced at this point, but not enough to vote.

What does willingness to be replaced have to do with being scum?

It has to do with giving up on the game, which I find to be inherently anti-town (even if you're not scum, it sucks).

Yes, the game has dragged on for months. Yes, it's 40 pages long. But you're leaving simply because you can't be arsed to read up and provide SOME input to the game? I don't like it. I never said it made you scum, I said I wasn't happy with it. If you *are* scum, however, it's a good out (and since scum have been doing relatively badly of late, is the only reason I mention that).

Draw your own conclusions (and I think I've mentioned this before, I *hate* replacements).

[Mr. Flay]

Right, he's dead now. Sorry, been a busy week...

So we're still looking for 7/12 for Electra, or a replacement, whatever comes first?

[Mr. Flay]

or that pooky wouldn't have asked to vote electra if she wasn't pooky's innocent.

Btw Pooky's innocent is already dead, thoth was the one I investigated =/

Wow, assuming you are what you say you are, that's some impressively bad luck.

[Mr. Flay]

Sure, everybody unvote the cute girl....

I'm not actually sure why everyone's unvoting Electarquiel. The only people Electra found suspicious enough to vote were Gaspode and Aelyn and mith, and she took her vote off of Gaspode quickly enough. Maybe an investigator, maybe scum? Presumably the three are from different scum groups though, so the likeliest candidate is that other hot chick, Scarlet War.

Darquiel, may we at least hear the good news that you've read the book?? And any explanation you can provide toward Electra's actions while she was here, would be nice, too...

[Mr. Flay]

Note, of course, the rule about not giving/hinting at a role name, either true or faked... unless you *are* scum, in which case feel free to slip up as much as you like.

[Mr. Flay]

No, I was saying that as a joke in case any scum believed me and got themselves modkilled. I believe Page 1 says you cannot claim either truely or falsely. It would be DOOM in either case, like you say.

Pooky's reported investigations have been dead-accurate (so to speak) so far, yes. Most of us seem to be working under the assumption that that makes him confirmed, and probably as protected as he can get (though without roles being revealed on death, it's hard to say who/if our Doctors are).

Going back *too* far will just make your head hurt, due to all the replacement and time gaps... but we appreciate the effort. Really. Any questions/insights, fire away.

Flay, who replaced in on Day Two

[Mr. Flay]

Cuz I feel like.

And alko, you're acting pretty suspicous, IMO Pooky, Fuldu2, Darklight, and Blackberry are cleared. Most people would agree Pooky Fuldu and Darklight are cleared. Do you need to figure out who to kill tonight?

WTF?!?! How is asking for who's basically cleared suspicious? I came in as a replacement and don't know everything that's going on. If I was a replacement in a game and there was a confirmed cop out there. I wouldn't want to end up voting for him because I didn't know he was basically confirmed. I'm asking this so that I know who not to try to lynch. I would like to know why they are 'cleared' so that I can evaluate whether or not I agree with that, but IMO, this post here is very scummy. I assumed that only Pooky was the confirmed one, and everybody else was unkown.

Agreed. I continue to be shocked and awed at the scumminess of Fritzler's posts, and can only assume that he's off his meds (maybe even a role restriction), if he's actually a mason.

Prepared to support a lynch on Fritzler or Darquielectra today, though several lesser people from my earlier list aren't looking much better... but there's no momentum there.

[Mr. Flay]

I think I know who Pooky and mith are.

Care to enlighten us, if you can remember back that far?

Sorry, just got back in town, so I'm rereading the last 40 posts or so. Glad to see broader participation. I don't think we're down to lynch-or-lose yet, so the townie/power-role only makes sense if we've got some sort of trustworthy "Lassie" role, which no one has claimed. Otherwise it just creates a) a lot of lying power roles, or b) a target-rich environment for the scum. Neither of which is something I think we need.

About the Delivery Man/Other Horsemen/yellow roles discussion: I don't think the Delivery Man is as likely to be scum as, say, Sister Mary. I

do

think we have the Other Horsemen, and esme might be one.

Who has thoughts on which two roles AREN'T in the game?? I thought Pooky was TSNCA Pulsiphur for a while there, but now would be willing to entertain that as a left-out role based on the Witchfinder masons we saw. Other than that, I don't have any idea about this question.

[Mr. Flay]

Gyeah. FOS: Pooky & darq for unrepentant cuteness. Can't you see the end of the world is coming???

Anyway, where IS everybody?? And darquiel, are you claiming some sort of power role?

[Mr. Flay]

Ahh, so she did. I was just confused by her "I don't want to die" post coming right on the heels of Pooky's post about us letting the scum kill all the docs, and then him.

Nobody *wants* to die, especially not scum. I'm curious why Fuldu II's vote on esme came about recently....

[Mr. Flay]

*mumbles something about deadlines making it easy for scum to win* C'mon people, post!

I've really got nothing new since my last posts (thank you esme for remembering who you thought mith & Pooky were). I've been fantastically bad at guessing roles so far, so I'm not going to go any further with that idea... but I believe our scum must be some of the sporadic posters. It stands to reason that some scum groups have either been lying low, getting blocked, or absent due to players dropping out of the game. No one seems to be 'pushing' a particular lynch or two, as I would expect if scum were trying to railroad us (see: Mafia XXXVII).

Pooky, will you be investigating one of the "God squad" tonight? Don't tell us which one, they might get knocked off... unless you have somene better in mind, like esme or Fuldu II.

[Mr. Flay]

Wait; crap. I forgot Fuldu II = DoomCow, who was already claimed as a mason (and now virtually proven by Dog's death). Nevermind investigating him.

Pooky: My rule about "don't do the scum's work for them" only applies to killing masons, not investigating them. You don't even have to tell us if they're innocent, unless we look like we're going to lynch them.

[Mr. Flay]

Can we get a vote count, while we're waiting for the site to get fully repopulated?

[Mr. Flay]

I think I'm changing my mind, Pooky - maybe the Fritzler/Blackberry pair need to be investigated after all. *sigh*

Hope we're right about Darquiel...

[Mr. Flay]

Annoyingpest/The_Machine86 still stands out in my mind, as does Electra, SinisterOverlord, and SubtleTactix. Mneme/Seol is also somewhat suspicious in my mind, as is esme/JDTAY, for some reason... with korais AND mith coming up scum, we should be able to find some new patterns. But I just had surgery, so I'm going back to bed....

Obviously Annoyingpest is no longer an issue; too bad about Darquilectra yesterday, but she was placed in a fairly untenable position in replacing a major lurker. Sinister is now al_kohaulic. However this list was mainly predicated on there being Other Horsemen in the game, so now I'm mainly reminding myself of earlier suspicions.

Why are we in an all-fired hurry to reveal Pooky's innocent, anyway? Unless we go after them with a lynch, what does that do but paint a bullseye on somebody's forehead? Presumably the scum will go after either Fuldu II or Pooky tonight, why give them a third target that might not be protected?

We're at 9 alive now; with the other Other Horsemen pretty much ruled out by the roles remaining, we're in pretty good shape.

Vote: SubtleTactix

for what I can only presume is intentional lurking, since practically everyone else got replaced....

[Mr. Flay]

I'm inclined to believe that Fuldu and Fritzler are innocent, and by inference, Pooky. If Pooky has two secret results now, he should reveal, IMO. If he forgot an investigation again, I'm likely to vote him out of sheer spite.

Otherwise, I'm leaning toward mneme or esme.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm inclined to believe that Fuldu and Fritzler are innocent, and by inference, Pooky. If Pooky has two secret results now, he should reveal, IMO. If he forgot an investigation again, I'm likely to vote him out of sheer spite. Evil or Very Mad

C'mon, as a claimed-cop, if you'd missed two investigations, don't you think we'd be more than a little suspicious?

As it stands, what you've investigated makes sense, and we seem to have some breathing room. If anyone has questions for me (that I can answer, obviously), I'll take them, but for now I'm willing to

Vote: al_kohaulec

.

[Mr. Flay]

Al, any particular reason you picked me to vote instead of esme, besides my vote on you?

I think the idea of describing our abilities might be a good one, provided we don't as a group think it'll give the scum more to work with than the town. I'm also curious if Pooky's N1 innocent was one of Them or not.

Fritzler: Why do you doubt SO was a demon?

[Mr. Flay]

Al is mistaken; what he saw was JDTAY "jokingly" voting for someone after they had died the night before, and the mod playing along briefly.

I think the who-was-here-on-what-night argument has merit, although I want more eyes on it. I'm singularly NOT convinced of Fritzler's reason for wanting to keep al_kohaulec alive, but I'll have to reread to see who he might be, and why he would be important.

[Mr. Flay]

Well, I've been voting you (or FOSing you) for several days now, just because your play didn't seem very helpful. Since you've been on the gallows you've said a lot more and helpful, so hopefully very soon we'll have confirmation of your innocence (as far as that goes in this game, anyway) and can integrate everything you've just said. I did vote ST for lurking, but look at his posts and you'll see why...at the time we were having an impossible time getting enough replacements for all the lurkers, and ST was one of the worst. I had concrete reasons as well, but can't remember them off the top of my head.

Finally, I voted you because it was essentially down to three options, and since I know who *I* am.... you seemed scummiest, at least today. I invite Pooky to investigate me to prove my innocence tonight (of course, if Pooky is nightkilled, I'll probably die tomorrow as a framejob, so keep that in mind too), since I have no actions to prove who I am. Just a townie.

[Mr. Flay]

Also (and to avoid the "No posts in this topic" bug), I'll try to go through and figure out who can and can't be Hastur based on replacement times... I suggest all other townies do the same, so we can compare notes tomorrow.

[Mr. Flay]

I suppose Mafia Cop is a possibility, but that would mean we have two scum left, and therefore lynch-or-lose, right? Or do Mafia Spies count toward win conditions, usually? Unfortunately, she's the only one I can see getting an 'innocent' result by a cop, as Hastur is probably cut-and-dried, even for a Witchfinder...

The Delivery Man

may

have an independent win condition, something like find all the horsemen or something, would be the only possibility there. But... Pooky, are you still getting straight good vibes/bad vibes on everyone?

I'm leaning toward esme as the default answer today (from my POV), but I suppose something could be fishy with Mneme or Pooky. How do you propose to discover that though, esme, without throwing the game away (no lynch is not an option if we're at Lynch-or-Lose)?

It goes without saying that for the same reasons, ANY roleclaim slipups (modkills) could destroy us as well. Let's proceed cautiously.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm much more prepared to lynch esme than Pooky at this point. If esme comes up town somehow and we're still alive, then Pooky's on the chopping block, but right now, we've got no reason to doubt his sanity, do we? Aside from esme's POV, of course.

Sorry, I meant to post a more complete reply to Fuldu's 4 choices, but I'm headed out now...maybe later/tomorrow.

[Mr. Flay]

I can't really discuss the Flay=DM thing, since in my mind the worst thing to happen would be a mod-kill, so even denying that I'm one of the remaining roles at this late juncture could be seen as a clue as to who I am. Sorry I can't be more specific, but that's the way the game is set up.

I can say, according to the 'abilities are fine', that I don't personally have a separate win condition. I just meant that, of the remaining roles, the DM would be MOST likely to have one, since he was aside from the major narrative of the story. Sister Mary, to my mind, is either not-present or part of the Hell faction, even if as a mafia spy. That is the scariest possibility for Pooky=scum in my world, and if we've somehow got evidence that Pooky has only fingered non-Hell scum, that could be an exciting tell. I admit I was ready to vote esme until she brought up the discrepancy of him still being alive.

Still

, killing the claimed, verified (after a fashion) masons was still probably the safest scum ploy, as any remaining doctor is probably betting on Pooky. Our last three night kills have been Adam, God, and the Metatron, all consigned to the flames. I'm not sure why they targeted Olio the night before that.

I think Pooky is either Agnes Nutter, if pro-town, or Sister Mary, if not. I don't have the faintest idea how to discern between those two possibilities though. If esme is scum as Pooky has narrowed it down for us, then it's pretty likely that she's Hastur, cut-and-dried. However the GH lynch is troublesome in that regard... I do think Fuldu is overlooking how hard it is for those of us who were not outed as Masons long ago to prove who we are, under this setup. If esme is town, I feel for her in that regard.

I'm certainly not demon-scum, and I don't have a separate win condition, fulfilled or unfulfilled. I'm trying to parse my way through what's left, but barring some marvelous insight from mneme, I'm still most likely to vote esme. Occam's Razor says that we try that before lynching Pooky on the word of his remaining possible scum. Remember, Pooky got mith right, so it's not like he can only spot non-humanoid scum or something (a variant of investigation immunity, sometimes).

Fuldu, I don't understand how you find the two-scum possibility more likely, especially when it requires both two scum AND some sort of investigation immunity/flaw in Pooky's ability. From your older four-possibility post:

4) Pooky is Sister Mary Loquacious, mafia cop. This is the problem scenario. In this case, mneme is still likely to be the Delivery Man, so Hastur is either esme or Mr. Flay. Offhand, it's more likely to be Mr. Flay, since Pooky has to realize that he's set up esme to probably be lynched today and it would be an awfully ballsy tactic to do that as a WIFOM. This scenario also explains how Pooky has survived this long.

Pooky can live this long through a misguided doctor, too (though I admit I don't see a role off the top of my head that would be one). We've all presumed through most of the game that Pooky is town cop, but his survival DOES trouble me. I just don't see it as entirely likely, certainly not as likely as esme being Hastur. But I want to hear from mneme, and possibly SubtleTactix again.

By the way, Pooky, you never answered my question about vibes: Have your results gotten any more specific than good vibes/bad vibes, anything that might hint at what we're really looking at here?

[Mr. Flay]

Errr, yes, ST is dead. Sorry. *smacks forehead*

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry for the triple post, but bringing this forward to the current page:

(Pooky's results)
...
N1: dead innocent
N2: mith guilty, takes back as vibes
N3: Peachy guilty
N4: Roland good
N5: Forgot to send in a choice
N6: Thoth innocent after Thoth is modkilled
N7: Fritzler innocent (told on D8)
N8: Mneme innocent
N9: Flay innocent

Peachy was Pollution and mith was GBH/All Four Other Horsemen, maybe. Therefore Pooky *has* never fingered someone from Hell, but given that only 5/32 were from Hell, not counting Sister Mary, that's not entirely indicative (and four of them were dead by the end of Day Four). I'm just accumulating data while I wait...

[Mr. Flay]

Overall, my two most likely scenarios are either esme alone or Flay + Pooky, but the two scum scenario is more dangerous today and since there's a possibility that Flay is scum alone and no such possibility with Pooky, I think Mr. Flay is the right lynch for today.

How is it possible that I am the sole scum left, in your analysis? Hastur with investigation immunity??? Sister Mary, and no Hastur? I'm just curious what this is about.

I don't agree with you that the two-scum possibility is more dangerous, but since you seem to think Pooky+Flay is the most likely pairing, I'm not sure how to convince you of that. But consider: if esme IS Hastur and the game isn't over, then who do we lynch tomorrow as (presumably) Sister Mary L.?

I'm not on Hell's side. I have no way to convince you of that, if you won't believe Pooky's investigation. We're out of ways to "prove" it, if we are at lynch-or-lose. But consider my vote/attack on Genocide Heart, and overall play, not just today.

If there is only one baddie left with investigation immunity(which is why the scum went after Masons instead of me), then it could be Flay Mneme or Esme, However Esme comes with the added bonus of being the only possible player to be an antitowner without investigation immunity.

Pooky speaks truth here. If we have two scum left, what are the chances they both have investigation immunity? Almost none, in my world. That means either Pooky is scum, or esme is. Not both, for reasons you've already mentioned (Pooky setting her up today is suicide at 5 players/2 scum - he could have just as easily framed me). mneme+esme is my most likely 2-scum scenario, since I know I'm town; that still allows me to

Vote: esme

. Pooky's got brass balls (see Werewolf/New York 37), but this seems too pat even for his schemes.

You are our ONLY confirmed townie, Fuldu, and you likely won't survive the night even if we do lynch right. If you choose to eliminate me, then I hope you're wrong about us having two scum.

[Mr. Flay]

Bah.

Unvote: esme

- I can't go to sleep with that hanging over her head, and I

did

say I'd wait for mneme. On the off chance it's mneme+Pooky, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Mr. Flay]

This is the point where I wish DP and Thoth hadn't been arbitrarily modkilled; if we had 9 players left, then we could lynch someone with (relative) impunity. As it stands, though... we can't claim for ourselves, but this is what I think.

Hastur - almost has to exist. I believe it's esme, but it could be Fuldu, with Pooky as a mafia cop.
Thou-Shalt-Not-Commit-Adultery Pulsifer - may not exist, since the other two Witchfinders were a two-man mason. May be Pooky.
Agnes Nutter - probably Pooky, unless he's Sister Mary.
Sister Mary Loquacious - Fuldu believes she exists, I'm willing to entertain the possibility she's around, but no way to be sure.
A Delivery Man - probably exists; allegiance unknown.
Wensleydale - Fuldu.
Alien - probably exists, since all of the other "groups" at the end of the Dramatis Personae exist (Americans, Atlantians, etc). Identity unknown.

Further, I think esme may have gotten "caught" with her vote on Ligur/GH . She voted for him on June 30th, 6th vote on the wagon, before the deadline went into place. GH himself advanced the idea of Sister Mary being in the Hell mafia, which is interesting. mneme was on the GH-wagon for a bit, then got off. I voted GH, got off, voted rolando, and came back to the GH-wagon just before the deadline was set. esme, on the other hand, didn't post between the setting of the deadline 812 and the lynch (RL) three days later, on July 17th. That's what makes the difference, in my mind.

More later, got to go to church.

[Mr. Flay]

I *am* suspicious of mneme. At this point it's either esme, or Pooky+mneme, in my book; but I don't know how to get to the point of decision, since we're all fragmented on who we think is scum, and we're out of options (assuming two scum).

[Mr. Flay]

Thank you, mneme, for finally weighing in. I was *hoping* we'd get a more complete picture of everyone's suspicions/pairings/role guesses, so that we can figure out who's lying, or at least playing badly, and go from there... but we've dropped off the face of the earth again.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm most likely to vote esme, but I could be persuaded toward Pooky, as I think if there ARE two scum, he almost has to be one of them (since I'm not).

[Mr. Flay]

Just to bump the "no posts exist" topic, I think if things come down to Fuldu's final decision, we've done this day correctly, since he appears to be the only truly confirmed soul we have still alive.

If I've missed some sort of outstanding question directed at me, please let me know.

[Mr. Flay]

Hello?? Are we all waiting for someone to crack under the pressure??

[Mr. Flay]

You're completely ignoring the possibility of one scum, and it being esme. I'm *not* some sort of "common factor", and I don't get why people are saying I am. In my mind, it's either esme (most likely) or Pooky+mneme, with a SMALL chance of esme+mneme+incredible luck. The idea of Fuldu's guilt beggars belief (scum-mason in a no-alignment-reveal game?), and I know who I am, even if I can't tell you.

Can we go back to something a little more logical, please, like figuring out which two roles might be missed?? This round-and-round is getting us nowhere, and if we can decide if someone else is more likely to be missing than Sister Mary, then I'll go with the two-scum-remaining theory. Right now, though, I've already laid out mine on the last page:

Hastur - almost has to exist. I believe it's esme, but it could be Fuldu, with Pooky as a mafia cop.
Thou-Shalt-Not-Commit-Adultery Pulsifer - may not exist, since the other two Witchfinders were a two-man mason. May be Pooky.
Agnes Nutter - probably Pooky, unless he's Sister Mary.
Sister Mary Loquacious - Fuldu believes she exists, I'm willing to entertain the possibility she's around, but no way to be sure.
A Delivery Man - probably exists; allegiance unknown.
Wensleydale - Fuldu.
Alien - probably exists, since all of the other "groups" at the end of the Dramatis Personae exist (Americans, Atlantians, etc). Identity unknown.

[Mr. Flay]

Oh, right: if esme IS pro-town and there's two scum left on the same team, then they've been taking their own sweet time speedlynching her. Just a thought, since most of us seem to think Pooky+esme is unlikely, given that they could have set somebody else up for the loss.

[Mr. Flay]

Fuldu, I

continue

to be unable to respond to your accusations that I am/am not the Delivery Man. I simply won't risk a modkill at this late juncture; I'll vote first.

And for the record, I didn't say that just anyone was ignoring the possibility, that portion of my response was directed at mneme, whose summation in the second half of his post ignored the very real possibility that he laid out in his first half, all so he could come to the conclusion that I was some sort of common denominator of scuminess.

[Mr. Flay]

Understood.

*goes back to waiting for the others*

[Mr. Flay]

*blink* Hello? 3 days since the last post...I know it was a holiday here in the States and all, but...

Oh, right: if esme IS pro-town and there's two scum left on the same team, then they've been taking their own sweet time speedlynching her. Just a thought, since most of us seem to think Pooky+esme is unlikely, given that they could have set somebody else up for the loss.

Anyone have more to say about this? I'm about 98% sure esme is scum now, but I don't want to set up a speedlynch before we all report back in.

[Mr. Flay]

I think that if we look back farther than just today, our least helpful lynchers have been mneme and esme. I'd prefer one of those to Pooky, but lynching him would tell us a LOT about the veracity of his claimed investigations, if not everything. It'll also depend a lot on whether the remaining scum (assuming we either have two, or guess wrong) decide to kill Fuldu or Pooky tonight.

[Mr. Flay]

I have to go with my first and best instinct. If I'm wrong, at least I tried.

Vote: esme

[Mr. Flay]

Probably... now to find out who was right.

[Mr. Flay]

The suspense is killing me here...(

hopefully not literally

).

[Mr. Flay]

Seriously. Pooky is my N1 target any time I'm a vigilante, from here on out. After this game and Werewolves/Mafia 37, there's no reason to trust him. Ever.

DS, can we get roles/alignments now?

[Mr. Flay]

Well, at the basic level, it was probably a screwup. However after watching *3* players get modkilled, I was particularly twitchy about getting knocked off myself. So I wanted to allay any suspicion that I was showing extraordinary knowledge about the Delivery Man, by throwing as much misinformation out there as real. Also, it appeared at that point that we were completely lacking in Role Cops, and I wasn't expecting you to take quite the tack you did. Maybe it fell under Lynch-All-Liars, but I still don't see why you were so adamant about what difference it made who I was or was not.

I still think we'd have been in a very different situation that day with two more players still alive (I'd have been willing to off Pooky, for one), but...*shrug*

[Mr. Flay]

Huh. Wow, lots going on behind the scenes, which explains the no-reveal rule.

Thanks for the game, DS/Polotet. Sorry it didn't go as smoothly as hoped.

[Mr. Flay]

I think the fourth way is the only reasonable answer. Everything else gets into mod interference in what should be (IMO) a "recreation" of the theme world. Open roles can be useful, but then you have to wonder what the 'motivation' is for mafia roles to associate with each other in such obviously out-of-character ways (HP having the Gang of Three as the scum was bad enough, but what if Harry, Snape, and Dobby were the mafia by accident?).

On the other hand, I think (humbly, of course) that Reservoir Dogs worked as a theme game without breaking claims, because we did an end-run around the limited number of roles by making aliases 'Open' and abilities secret. Greek Mafia on GL worked pretty well without claims breaking the game, because there was a wealth of possibilities (Sappho was a bloody inspired false claim, I don't care what anybody says - and it wasn't even me!). THHGTTG-type games all seem to have done well without resorting to mass claims, unless I'm remembering badly. LOTR/Minas Tirith? Hobbit Mafia had other, bigger problems... *thinks* Checkmate turned out okay, didn't it? I can't talk about Civilization or Nativity Mafia yet...