Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Kublai Khan]

SpyreX [1]

- Kdub, xvart

Mod: Is this an error?

[AlmasterGM]

Ok, first, my answers to my own questions.

1) I received my second choice.
2) Yes, and I would use it on The Stove.
3) No, because the knowledge that I cheated would undermine the good feeling I would get for receiving respect for being "good" at the game.
4) $50/$50. It's not that much money, so player two has more of an incetive to say "fuck you" if I offer an unfair deal.
5) $900,000/$100,000. In this case, $100,000 is such a large sum that player two is unlikely to say no, even if he is getting the short end of the stick. There are cheaper ways to get revenge than $100,000.

Anyway, there is a game-relevant POINT to all of the questions ... which is why I am annoyed that Vi will not answer them.

When I said I don't like your questions, I pretty clearly meant I didn't like ANY of your questions. The only one that WOULD be alignment-relevant is the first one. Please prove me wrong. (That, and I didn't feel like thinking about them at ten at night.)
Rather than participate, I simply cut through the grass and gave you alignment-relevant information. You're welcome.

Why don't you like the questions? I'd be happy to explain the usefullness of each one ... after you answer them. And yes, they all have a function.

Hint: "They're pointless" isn't a valid answer. Even if you think they are stupid, it takes about 90 seconds to answer them ... time you clearly had because you managed to analyze my questions and offer an answer to what you "thought" I was trying to get out of them. Or, if you actually are so incredibly busy that you can't spend 90 seconds answering a few questions, then you shouldn't be playing forum mafia.

If I answered one of AGM's questions, it was by accident.

Oh, so we're lying about the friendly questions now? Your whole "I have a motive to be town" answer is a pretty clear response to the first question.

----

Anyway, I find this:

All this colour speculation is pointless.

Followed by this:

Which brings me to my real point in all of this. I have strong reason to believe that mod preference played a part in the roles handed out. I don't know too much about either of the mods (beyond the fact RC dislikes me), so for those of you who do: assuming mod preference played a part in the assigning of roles, who would be most likely to have received a role that was presumably highly requested (SK), or else a Scum role if they prefer Scum?

Plus a few othe setup-spec posts from SensFan to be hilariously contradictory. Not to mention the fact that the arguments within the contradiction itself is bad ... "I don't know much about either of the mods, but I DO know that they rigged the game!" Wut.

SensFan vote stays.

SpyreX is making my head spin. Not the whole SK-spec thing ... but the explanation afterwards. It's very unclear and muddled.

Also Fate/xReck RIP caps lawk ... the caps was much funnier to read than the nocaps/bad spelling eyesore.

[SensFan]

I have had very limited interaction with RC (he played in my HP Mafia, I signed up for a game of his but left the site before the thread was posted) and no interaction with dana before this game. Thus, "I don't know much about either of the mods."
RC stopped me from joining this game until I took it up with dana a couple days later, then PM'd me several times over the course of the delay before the game telling me to stop bitching in the queue thread, then got really pissed when I asked a higher power if the 'mod preference' thing was allowed. Thus, "(beyond the fact the Mods dislike me)".
My original colour submissions (which were not used) happened to coincide almost perfectly with SSBF's (which were used for my slot). I got a colour that wasn't any of the 2 he submitted nor the other one I submitted.
The Mods have admitted in the signup thread that modpreference had a part in role allotment.
Are you really trying to make the case that stance is hypocritical with itself? It all follows fairly logically to me.

---

As for your first part, you're (once again) completely wrong. Colour speculation is pointless, since the colours people submitted don't appear to be more than a minor connection to their role, if any, based on my role. Speculation about who the Mods may have favoured (which I have no idea about) will be fruitful, as per how I explained it. It's really not all that complicated.

[Katsuki]

how about scumhunting instead of bitching all game long?

Also Fate/xReck RIP caps lawk ... the caps was much funnier to read than the nocaps/bad spelling eyesore.

evidently mods thought the game would be more enjoyable without caps

[Katsuki]

actually heres a starter for you sensfan

what are your thoughts on tans and spyspy

[tanstalas]

@MOI - The red scum thing was just joking around - I mentioned it in the signup thread as well that the two colors used in making purple were red and blue so Andy most likely picked Red and Blue as his choices.

@Kablai -

Your reasoning that people at the top of the sign-up list are more likely to get the role they chose is crap, IMHO. If you honestly believed that to be a possibility you'd have waiting for more responses to AlmasterGM's opening questions to see if it supported your theory.

I already said that I was probably wrong on my theory of first signups got priority over the other picks which can be seen when I replied to Too:

Firstly, I doubt the hosts did some kind of first come first serve role distribution, and I would wager it more likely that RNG gave people roles on their first picks. So regardless of if you were the first or the last person to submit colors, I don't think that it would have any bearing on whether you got your color choice or not.

I got my first pick and was near the top of the list *shrug* just speculation I suppose. Your theory makes more sense though. Maybe I was just lucky.

I was figuring since Sensfan was obviously pissed off at his role that he probably got the VT role or something similar based on his first post - and he was #24 on the list whereas I got my first pick and I was #4 on the list, like I said I was probably just lucky and he was unlucky.

Oh and I forgot to unvote Andy in that post.

Unvote: Andrius

The way you used the word 'frame' in your sentence to me struck a cord, hence why I asked you to give your definition of it. Usually when I think of framing someone I think of trying to make someone look guilty that you know is innocent which is why I asked you to define the word because there is no way I could know he is innocent (read: town) and I thought that only one group of people would know he was town, that being mafia, then I realized that the two scum groups most likely do not know who each other is. Though if you are scum then you would know the alignment of everyone save about 16% of the people in the gave (assuming 4/4/4/4/4/1 split)

So, town/sk. SK second because that way IF I get my first pick I then can throw out the (albeit not very) useful tidbit that SK is probably in the game.

hence Town/SK with a side of knowing it exists if I don't get it.

@SpyreX - This has been asked before by Xvart in #110, but why would you assume there 'might' be an SK in the game? It was very clearly outlined that there would be an SK in the game in the signup thread. Were you expecting the mods to message you back with "hehe lol there is no orange, we just put it in there to screw with you, even though we said there was an orange sk in the 5th post of the signup thread"

Vote:Spyrex

Now, this next part isn't really game related but Sensfan seriously needs to get over his 'RC hates me and the mods fixed the game' stuff, it is getting grating. Yes RC said there may be preferential treatment - however in responding to Mr. Flay he obviously said it was a joke. However if you really think that they boned you with the role they gave you feel free to replace out, I'd love to play with Fritz.

[Vi]

Anyway, there is a game-relevant POINT to all of the questions ... which is why I am annoyed that Vi will not answer them.

Why don't you like the questions? I'd be happy to explain the usefullness of each one ... after you answer them. And yes, they all have a function.

Hint: "They're pointless" isn't a valid answer. Even if you think they are stupid, it takes about 90 seconds to answer them ... time you clearly had because you managed to analyze my questions and offer an answer to what you "thought" I was trying to get out of them. Or, if you actually are so incredibly busy that you can't spend 90 seconds answering a few questions, then you shouldn't be playing forum mafia.

Oh, so we're lying about the friendly questions now? Your whole "I have a motive to be town" answer is a pretty clear response to the first question.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the use of your questions, but.
1) If you are so incredibly up in arms about one person abstaining from your questioning, then you are
*intentionally trying to draw a scene,
*so heavily reliant on this questionnaire for reads that I question your scumhunting efforts, and/or
*acting like Adel
none of which are good things.
I'll abstain, you can explain, and I'll decide whether my opinion of the survey changes afterward.

2) A "pretty clear response"?

1) Did you get the color you asked for?

In a game with crossfire, I in particular have every reason to want to be Town (plus I prefer being Town in the first place).

I certainly said I picked Town, but I said nothing about colors.

3) Moreover, my acknowledgment that I may have unintentionally answered one of your questions evidently means that when I said I would pass on explicitly answering them I was "lying". You are either incredibly dense or your argument can't come in good faith, and I know you're not dense.

4) If I think your questions don't lead anywhere, I'm under no obligation to distract the game with them - especially when we had perfectly good vote material in the post directly above yours.

As for why I believe the questions are irrelevant.
Re: Getting the colors you wanted - For one, the mod team said they wanted to satisfy as many people as they could, so the answer would mostly be "yes". Even if not, I would presume most people would not be heartbroken if they didn't get their favorite shade of Town for whatever reason, so long as they got the alignment they wanted. And if they didn't get the alignment they wanted, they would probably be better off not saying so explicitly inthread.
Re: N0 Vigs - There are theoretical purposes for this but unless you plan on policy lynching D1 - and we can do better - it likely won't amount to anything.
Re: Cheating if you could - Theoretically you could get a psychological profile on people you don't know much about with this question; evidently you're looking for people who are boldfaced enough to pick scum and say they'd pick scum.
Re: Ultimatum - Never played it, never really cared much for economics, don't see the relevance of the question in a Mafia context.

----

Rereading a little, Kdub is probscum. Nothing to say outside colors and theory.
Vote stays on SensFan because, again, there's no reason to whine

this much

if you got the alignment you wanted but not the colors. Do I think he would complain this much as scum for being scum? I'm fairly sure there's precedent.

[AlmasterGM]

*intentionally trying to draw a scene,
*so heavily reliant on this questionnaire for reads that I question your scumhunting efforts, and/or
*acting like Adel
none of which are good things.

Are they scummy not-good-things or just not-good-things?

[xRECKONERx]

hey fate do u think we can get rc to let us capslockalliance again
cuz i gotta agree w other ppl this is kinda annoying

[SensFan]

Vote stays on SensFan because, again, there's no reason to whine

this much

if you got the alignment you wanted but not the colors. Do I think he would complain this much as scum for being scum? I'm fairly sure there's precedent.

I didn't get the alignment I wanted.

I submitted Red/Orange (so the mods knew I wanted to be Scum, even if my choices didn't count.) SSBF submitted Yellow/Orange. I was given a Town role.

[Vi]

*intentionally trying to draw a scene,
*so heavily reliant on this questionnaire for reads that I question your scumhunting efforts, and/or
*acting like Adel
none of which are good things.

Are they scummy not-good-things or just not-good-things?

The former.

I submitted Red/Orange (so the mods knew I wanted to be Scum, even if my choices didn't count.) SSBF submitted Yellow/Orange. I was given a Town role.

That's actually interesting information if true. It likely means that

too many people

requested scum.

That's what I wanted to know.

Unvote: SensFan
Vote: Kdub

(L-12)

[SpyreX]

Welp, assuming sens is telling the truth I don't even have to ask my question because this game obviously doesn't follow the same methodology that others of this variant would. Considering I'm not the only one who has ran draft variants here and I'm prettyyyyy sure that none of them would give out things if they weren't picked (like SK for example ohhh shiii) well then the like I said albeit small help in knowing orange isn't there isn't there at all.

Even with that being true, I'm at the point where I'd love these votes (and tsk, tsks I'm talkin about you AGM) explained. Because if its for 'lol, pressure' when I've said more than once well.

If its because I'm scum lets dance.

(as an aside Vi maybe someday I'll have to have you show me your mystic powers because the more I think about it the more I think I've never been an SK but sooo lazy).

Additionally AGM:

I sure haven't commented on your questions. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. You've commented on me. Why am I not getting the ohh snap like you're throwing at Vi?

(I had to write this more than once to get rid of caps, sweet)

[Vi]

Welp, assuming sens is telling the truth I don't even have to ask my question because this game obviously doesn't follow the same methodology that others of this variant would. Considering I'm not the only one who has ran draft variants here and I'm prettyyyyy sure that none of them would give out things if they weren't picked (like SK for example ohhh shiii) well then the like I said albeit small help in knowing orange isn't there isn't there at all.

I think whoever it was that suggested that there were color quotae may have been on the mark, although 9 scum in a 24 player game sounds kind of crazy.

If its because I'm scum

just

dance.

SPYREX CONFIRMED FOR GAGA TIER

(as an aside Vi maybe someday I'll have to have you show me your mystic powers because the more I think about it the more I think I've never been an SK but sooo lazy).

I'm not sure what you're asking me to do here...

[SpyreX]

Look, you pooled all the game data. I just want any tips and tricks or was it just methodical.

Color quota makes me more than a little wroth (and not because of orange-gate)

[AlmasterGM]

Are they scummy not-good-things or just not-good-things?

The former.

*intentionally trying to draw a scene,

I'd say your calling yourself scummy, then. Sure, maybe my harping on the questions is silly, but you have caused just as large of a scene with your refusal to answer them as I have by asking that you do.

I sure haven't commented on your questions. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. You've commented on me. Why am I not getting the ohh snap like you're throwing at Vi?

Because Vi is making a point to explicitly refuse to answer them. Also, because I am getting more out of the conversation with Vi than simply "lol wai did u n0t answ3r ma queeesstions hurr."

I submitted Red/Orange (so the mods knew I wanted to be Scum, even if my choices didn't count.) SSBF submitted Yellow/Orange. I was given a Town role.

THIS is the cause for the uproar?

No shit

there's a chance not everyone who requests scum is going to get scum. If 15 people asked for scum then some of them are going to be town. The end.

[AlmasterGM]

Also I like how Vi said question one was irrelevant, and then when SensFan answered it two posts below the answer suddenly became "interesting."

[SpyreX]

Yea, I'm known for my hurring and the simple fact I've not answered your questions should be evidence I'm not planning on it but:

Also I like how Vi said question one was irrelevant, and then when SensFan answered it two posts below the answer suddenly became "interesting."

Does. Not. Compute.

The interesting part is requesting scum and not getting it. This is in direct response to Vi's own statement (which has everything to do with Sens's 'whining') and only has the most tangential relation to your questions (hint: Sens's actions had nothing to do with your questions).

Queue Vi-buddying in 3-2-1

[Vi]

I'd say your calling yourself scummy, then. Sure, maybe my harping on the questions is silly, but you have caused just as large of a scene with your refusal to answer them as I have by asking that you do.

My reason for acting out actually

matters

. I've seen no indication how yours does, and you're in no hurry to give one.

Because Vi is making a point to explicitly refuse to answer them. Also, because I am getting more out of the conversation with Vi than simply "lol wai did u n0t answ3r ma queeesstions hurr."

nuh-uh......................... u think u can make me answer ur questions well guess wut... LOL!!!

THIS is the cause for the uproar?

No shit

there's a chance not everyone who requests scum is going to get scum. If 15 people asked for scum then some of them are going to be town. The end.

Funny, one of us with more experience with these games happens to find this to be new and interesting information, and certainly wouldn't prefer the conversation abruptly stop like that.

Also I like how Vi said question one was irrelevant, and then when SensFan answered it two posts below the answer suddenly became "interesting."

Oh, yes, he was absolutely answering your question right there. Your name's in the post and everything.

We're lynching Kdub Today, so

attn: appropriate killing elements - target AGM, please and thank you

----

I still don't understand what SpyreX wants but it's probably not important.

Cut: SpyreX is superTown. SpyreX is amazing. SpyreX promised to let me into the Hierarchy if I promised him absolute obedience. SpyreX... um... how long does this scripted response go?

[SpyreX]

I just want you to use your robots or whatever it is to look through all my games and tell me if I was ever an SK, sheesh.

30-40 more lines. Although you did remind me of something else I have to do. Boy ohh boy I'm behind.

[AlmasterGM]

My reason for acting out actually matters.

Minus the fact that you saved yourself a few minutes by not answering the questions, how does your "acting out" matter? What does it accomplish?

Oh, yes, he was absolutely answering your question right there. Your name's in the post and everything.

It is irrelevant who he was talking to. What IS relevant is that you jumped from calling a subject area (whether people got their colors or not) "irrelevant" to "interesting" in a single post. Step back for a second and look at this. Am I actually wrong and misunderstanding what was said, or are you just disagreeing with everything I'm saying simply because it's coming from me?

[Vi]

My reason for acting out actually matters.

Minus the fact that you saved yourself a few minutes by not answering the questions, how does your "acting out" matter? What does it accomplish?

It gave me a chance to see that your exaggerated attacks were coming from a position that's incomprehensible if you're Town. (Thank you for your cooperation. :alex: )

Oh, yes, he was absolutely answering your question right there. Your name's in the post and everything.

It is irrelevant who he was talking to. What IS relevant is that you jumped from calling a subject area (whether people got their colors or not) "irrelevant" to "interesting" in a single post. Step back for a second and look at this. Am I actually wrong and misunderstanding what was said, or are you just disagreeing with everything I'm saying simply because it's coming from me?

Go ahead and reread exactly WHY I said it was irrelevant.

[tanstalas]

I just want you to use your robots or whatever it is to look through all my games and tell me if I was ever an SK, sheesh.

Just on a quick google search I found this:

http://mafiascum.net/dontpanic/viewtopi ... =9&start=0

Now I didn't dig deep so this is the only one I found offhand based on a simple search, and I can understand that you may have forgotten this game since it was a marathon game, thought it sort of funny that RC modded that game as well.. and you also admitted you picked orange as one of your colors... hmmm...

[SpyreX]

OHHH YEA

Well I never.

[AlmasterGM]

It gave me a chance to see that your exaggerated attacks were coming from a position that's incomprehensible if you're Town. (Thank you for your cooperation. :alex: )

There's a pretty clear double standard here. You making a scene = you're scumhunting, me making a scene = I'm scum. Especially given that the "exaggerated attacks" point is pretty untrue (minus the lying thing, which might have crossed the line a little bit. But not that much.).

Go ahead and reread exactly WHY I said it was irrelevant.

Is this what you are talking about?

Re: Getting the colors you wanted - For one, the mod team said they wanted to satisfy as many people as they could, so the answer would mostly be "yes". Even if not, I would presume most people would not be heartbroken if they didn't get their favorite shade of Town for whatever reason, so long as they got the alignment they wanted. And if they didn't get the alignment they wanted, they would probably be better off not saying so explicitly inthread.

If so, in SensFan's case, he didn't get the colors he wanted, he didn't get the alignment he wanted, and he DID say so in thread. And you called it interesting. Not irrelevant.

Or am I looking in the wrong place?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone voting for Spyrex

– I’d like to know how his mind-bogglingly strange logic regarding choosing Orange as a second color and it being meaningful (which appears to be from a misunderstanding of how roles would be distributed) is in any way a scum-tell.

Also Fate/xReck RIP caps lawk ... the caps was much funnier to read than the nocaps/bad spelling eyesore.

I cannot disagree more. I much prefer seeing Fate and his crew forced to wallow in the territory of Razorback / Vezok / Furcolow than having to see page after page of pointless all-caps posting.

That's actually interesting information if true. It likely means that too many people requested scum.

Do you see a reliable way to test his veracity other than having him flip? Because I can’t say I’m that thrilled to have a Townie playing the game who is pissed he isn’t scum if he wasn’t lying.

Further I suggest from what I know about SSBF I would doubt taking the scum route would be his logical choice of action. Given how he felt about his SK role in Clash of Kings Mafia him throwing Orange as a color choice feels very unlikely.

Actually, that in itself is enough to make me doubt Sens's story and move my vote to him.

UNVOTE: Fate
VOTE: Sensfan

I think whoever it was that suggested that there were color quotae may have been on the mark, although 9 scum in a 24 player game sounds kind of crazy.

Not to question your pedigree as Mod Vi but that sort of set-up seems in-vogue here on MS as of late.

Clash of Kings had two 4 player scum teams and a Serial Killer.
Lord of the Rings had two 4 player scum teams and a 3rd Party joint survivor.

Both were fairly close in terms of overall player number, IIRC. Clash had a higher Town PR concentration than LOTR but both were fairly balanced, IMO.

only reason i can see spyspy picking orange second is to confirm the presence of an orange
that or he had some small inner desire and hope of being sk

Um what?

1. Picking Orange second is irrevelant to whether Orange exists or not since it is OBV OBV OBV that there is a color quota.
2. If he had a small inner desire to be a SK he would have picked Orange first.

how about scumhunting instead of bitching all game long?

The irony here is over-whelming. The Caps-Lawk crew (which you look to be applying for Junior Membership with) is throwing the equivalent of a temper tantrum for not being able to CAPS LAWK and you have the gaul to tell someone else to stop bitching?

Town should not be volunteering their color choices without good reason. Doing so helps scum since the mods said almost everyone would get one of their choices, and the scum are better informed to work out who might be what color.

I’d like to know how Scum working out colors for players in any way helps them. VTs can be of any Town Color (G-B-I-V).

Also why so up in arms over Spyrex ‘outting’ colors when Andrius directly claimed either Violet or Indigo in his posts?

Which brings me to my real point in all of this. I have strong reason to believe that mod preference played a part in the roles handed out. I don't know too much about either of the mods (beyond the fact RC dislikes me), so for those of you who do: assuming mod preference played a part in the assigning of roles, who would be most likely to have received a role that was presumably highly requested (SK), or else a Scum role if they prefer Scum?

If you seriously believe this then replace out. Tin-foil hat Mod theories will not be doing the game any good. I’ve played under both RC and dana. Neither has shown any inclination I have seen as Mods to favor players in role-assignments.

It should have been apparent, IMO, that the color ranking process was designed to slot as many players as possible with their 1st or 2nd choices in a 4-4-4-4-4-4-1 set-up.