Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Reading up, will have some input asap.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 1x8 ::

LynchMePls (0) -

RedCoyote (0) -

MagnaOfIllusion (0) -

themanhimself (0) -

Lateralus22 (0) -

WrathChild (2) -

Parama, diddin

curiouskarmadog (2) -

Nero Cain, chkflip

Helghast (5) -

RedCoyote, Lateralus22, popsofctown, Saint, LynchMePls

Powerrox93 (0) -

quadz08 (1) -

StrangerCoug

chkflip (0) -

Nero Cain (1) -

quadz08

DarlaBlueEyes (0) -

q21 (0) -

diddin (0) -

popsofctown (1) -

MagnaofIllusion

SnakePlissken (0) -

I Am Innocent (0) -

StrangerCoug (0) -

Parama (2) -

EtherealCookie, Powerrox93

Implosion (0) -

EtherealCookie (3) -

DarlaBlueEyes, I Am Innocent, themanhimself

Saint (0) -

Not Voting (6) -

Helghast, implosion, SnakePlissken, WrathChild, q21, curiouskarmadog

With 23 Alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is currently set for Thursday January 13, 2011 at 9:00 pm EST.

[implosion]

Sorry for decreasing activity. I'll make a catchup post soon, hopefully tomorrow if I get to it.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

to start:

Unvote Narsis' vote on EC

Back with content soon, had to eat dinz.

[popsofctown]

I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it.

Ummmm… the whole point of this technique is that with the cycling mechanic, connecting players is a built-in feature. I don’t know how to do the math, but my guess is that by D3, between flips and connections from ability passing (assuming we do this based on MoI’s plan, which I haven’t seen any arguments against) we’ll be able to know that at least 1 or 2 additional players are scum. I don’t understand what your beef is with this.

Scum flips + connection info = yes, very useful, very helpful. Players that are proven not to share a faction with a dead scum are proven town.

Connection info + connection info = worthless. That can only be used to speculate on possible entire scumteams. I've never seen games won by someone saying, "Oh, I see it now, X, Y, and Z are on a scumteam together, and you can tell by the way they interact. Let's lynch them in any order."
Doesn't happen. "X flipped scum, let's check out his interactions with Y and Z." is very useful, because there aren't as many unknowns.


In the quoted post I say "I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it". By that I mean, connection info via the cycles isn't useful until we have scumflips. That's when X isn't scum with Y can start painting pictures.


The reason I was emphasizing the uselessness of connections without scumflips is because we'll have tons of connection info off cycles, but we have a treestump ability that makes it harder for us to get that first scumflip. MoI wants to leave the treestump ability around so we can get even more connection info. To me, that's like going out to buy more sugar when you have 3 bags of sugar for your lemonade and no lemons. (the sugar being the connection info we'll get anyway, the lemons being that first scumflip that gets easier once the treestump ability is removed from the game).
(For the sake of wordcount, I'll leave you to read my old posts if you want an explanation of how the treestump makes it hard to lynch scum)

[Nero Cain]

I'm very tempted to call the CHK vs. RC back and forth distancing/coaching. In 412 CHK said he was still developing his reads. RC presses. Then in 417 it seems that CHK had annaylzed/been told what to say.

WrathChild:

Parama, The man himself, Diddin, Lateralus22, popsofclown, powerrox93, I am Innocent

(7)

EC:

RedCoyote, Saint, curiouskarmadog, I Am Innocent

(4)

Helghast:

Lateralus22, pops

(2)

Nero Cain:

chkflip

(1)

Narsis:

Saint

(1)

Current hit list for didden, note there

may be some errors so please point them out.

I've got your name there if you've expressed some interest in the vig candidate even if they weren't your first choice but you were willing to compromise but haven't got your name next to someone unless I thought you said exactly that you would be cool with switching to them.

I HAD been for a Helghast/Narsis shot. But Narsis just got replaced so lets lets give the slot a chance.

Powerrox93 463 is lame. Obviously scumhunting through # of of posts is lame but give the kid credit for trying. Seemed to me like just putting more pressure on him.

@I AM If CKDs slip jumped @ you more then why are you not voting him? EC is scummier?

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work.

Not so. I believe that implosion has declared unlynchable, not unkillable.

Yeah yeah yeah. So I missed it. He clarified it. Why are you making it out into a big deal? And why are you not worried about CHK and I AM who supposedly missed it as well?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Arg. Okay I had a wordpad open full of all my notes as I read through, but the fucking computer updated itself and restarted while I was making me some nachos. SO. I am just going to try and vaguely reconstruct my basic impression of things that stand out as notable, as well as my take on the current day-vig candidates for didden, (which by the way, I support the majority ruling/vote/decision what have you on too.)

ANYWAYS. Again, with the delays, apologies and a post is being typed up now with my actual content.

[Lateralus22]

Vig Count 1.1

WrathChild:

Parama, Themanhimself, Diddin, popsofclown, powerrox93, I Am Innocent (6)

EtherealCookie:

RedCoyote, Saint, curiouskarmadog, I Am Innocent, MagnaofIllusion (5)

Helghast:

Lateralus22, popsofclown, didden, quadz08 (4)

Nero Cain:

chkflip, quadz08 (2)

Narsis:

Saint, MagnaofIllusion (2)

themanhimself:

implosion, Lateralus22 (2)

popsofclown:

MagnaofIllusion, StrangerCoug, themanhimself (3)

chkflip:

MagnaofIllusion (1)

curiouskarmadog:

StrangerCoug, themanhimself (2)

Powerrox93:

quadz08 (1)

Saint:

quadz08 (1)

*Correction on Vig Count 1, Nero Cain supported Narsis vig but retracted as of this count.
*Same deal, if theres errors point them out. Also can we please use sort of

Vig: Player A

template? It'll help keep things more accurate.

Real post coming soon, some changes in my vig choices.

[themanhimself]

Man, I was gone for a day and we had about ten damn novels posted..... I hate to be the lazy player but could anyone (maybe the authors of the posts in question) do a little summarization?

[Saint]

Vi fos ec and tmh, she may verify on one, or both. I fos darla blue eyes and hellghast

[Saint]

I don't see ec as vig bait if he is town. Vig a noob or hang diddin.

[chkflip]

chkflip

re 471 – You feel the need to respond to Pops non-game related comment regarding the Wiki but nothing regarding being called scum by me?

-

I wanted to hear you cry about it first.

To be honest, I didn't really find what you had to say to be very substancial, so I was going to wait for you to come up with something that I actually thought was a good lead as opposed to what you've now repeatedly done ^here with the whole strawman stuff and loose fakehunting points.

Pops and Chkflip's

back to back attacks on TMH for Chainsawing starting at 396 lead me to believe that they probably aren’t scum together. That would be pretty blatant Scum buddying Scum action right there.

- The "It's not possible because that'd be too obvious" excuse for it not to be scummy? That's as assenine as me saying you just bussed your scumbuddy Pops to paint me scummy if he were to flip. If you find it to be blatant buddying, call it out; otherwise, just pointing it out like this is pretty meaningless to me. Not to mention the fact that it looks like fakehunting.

Chkflip's

hop onto Wrathchild following Parama’s lead pings my scumdar.

- No, actually, that's called pressure. On top of a meek point -- is your scumdar supposed to make me crack under the pressure of your fakehunting? Stop acting like you're above the game and maybe I'll take you seriously, guy.

Chkflip's

later input which amounts to ‘Why don’t you know about a Treestump based on your join date’ isn’t even closely related to scum-hunting.

- No, it's not. Congratulations. Note that I wasn't scumhunting in that particular portion, though, as there was still much interest in the Tree Stump ability and exactly how it worked.

Chkflip's

is guilty at 363 of a similar crime to Narsis – stating someone is scummy but being unable to articulate any reason at all why.

- This seems to be your only point of half-validity. I've got to ask, though... if you had so much of a firm belief that it was as you say, why not supply the hard copy?

I don't think he's lying about being the stump, no, but the answer would help my stance on trying to keep the ability versus giving it to someone we're agreeing to vig out.

I think WrathChild has very unique circumstances... I wouldn't mind giving him until the 3rd to prove himself, as we have more than one avenue to go down right now.

Helghast, on the other hand, just seems scummy. But I can't pinpoint anything scummy (that hasn't already been addressed) and I hate parrots, so I've yet to give my full read on that situation and I will continue to play it by ear.

Lateralus, why do you ask?

- And here's why. Obviously we were still discussing the Stump. The rest of this particular post is answering a question Lateralus had posed to anyone who wished to respond, then me finishing with an inquiry in response. Is this the greatest post in the history of mafia? Certainly not, but this is a very poor example of you trying to pair me with something that might actually be scummy in Narsis.

Chkflip's

soft defense of Narsis hidden in his attack on Nero Cain at 417 is noted for future reference.

-

MagnaofIllusion's

soft defense of Nero Cain hidden in his attack on chkflip at 436 is noted for future reference. See how dumb this looks now? These are some of the loosest ties I've ever seen, and it feels more like you

know

he'll flip scum instead of just

thinking

he's scum (e.g. you're scum).

- I reeeeaaalllly don't like the fact that Parama has evaded this question, no matter how small it seems to be. Tells me something... something scummy. FoS!~

UNVOTE because my read has since nullified. I'm tempted to vote diddin, as I find him scummy, but I'll wait until I post again to lay a vote alongside my own portion to the scumcase.

This sequence is scummy. He finds Parama’s dodging of a question, no matter how inconsequential scummy enough to warrant an FOS. Then he immediately unvotes whatever vote was floating around and says diddin is scummy but will withhold a vote until later.

I don’t find unvoting without revoting necessarily scummy if you don’t have another candidate. Here chk has two and doesn’t vote for either.

- Obviously you're strawmanning and now tunneling so hard on me with your fakehunting fakepressure that you fail to read the post correctly.

- Finding someone to act in a scummy manner isn't enough to vote them as you may just be misinterpreting what's being said, nor was Parama's oversight enough to vote for him either. So yes, dodging a question gets a

FoS

and not a vote. Personally,

now

I can see where he's coming from.

[SnakePlissken]

Jeez, these wall posts are really annoying. Not been on fora fair few days but will try and catch up.

[Saint]

quadz, AntB is someone I had discussed with Vi.
It felt like it was public knowledge more than it was.
I am sorry that I was wrong about that, and that is why I am not pushing a wagon and trying to spotlight this game.
I am merely providing a wise opinion and FoS. I don't mind you doing the same to me here whatsoever.

StrangerCoug, I like how you at least attempt to understand me in your post nearing 500
thanks.

[Saint]

OK, I'm completely caught up.
I would be happy lynching any of the people I have aforementioned, with pops added to the list.
I feel like a doctor-protected-semi-confirmed-town MoI would be very beneficial to the town on D2
Here's to hoping scum didn't get the doctor ability~ (it is likely in town hands! here here.)

I am actually going to

unvote; vote: pops

before pops has the time to deter the wagon on his scumbuddy helghast who is merely a lurker scum who doesn't care as much

[RedCoyote]

Why are we still directing and potential doctor ability? Ugh, we seriously need to start thinning the ranks here. I thought diddin was going to take a shot. Let me process all of this.

[themanhimself]

Yeah, I agree with RC. Let's get the ball rolling on the day-vig. Looking over Lateralus' list (thanks, btw) I'm shockingly totally ok with vigging any of the top four right now. I assume we're still allowed to cast multiple votes for that so

vig:Helghast
vig:Wrathchild
vig:etherealcookie

The sooner we vig one of them, the sooner we can do some real analysis based on their flip and who was pushing their lynch and who wasn't. This day-vigging thing is really a god-send because it allows us to get a ton more analysis in on D1 and I think it hugely raises our chances of hitting scum today.

[themanhimself]

I realize I switched my stance on helghast but he really hasn't done much to pull himself up and to me that says either scum or useless townie and since it wouldn't be wasting a lynch I'd be alright with that. As far as WC goes I'm still seeing him mostly as a newb but quite possibly a scum newb. And again, if not he's a useless townie and we'll glean a lot of information from his death. EC and pops I've already called out so I won't summarize here.

[LimMePls]

2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

Please define what you mean by active lurking. Because my play does not fall into that category as I understand it, yet I was one of the players you were drawing attention to. I was not even lurking, I was plainly V/LA, which was noted to both the mod AND in thread.

By your own admission you didn't have time for "serious scum hunting". Do you know what townies do when they don't have time for "serious scum hunting"? Nothing. Do you know what scum do? Act like they are scum hunting to try and blend with town.

Can we lynch and/or shoot this guy please?

[LimMePls]

#1: Forgive me for not knowing the /barn term means the same as blatant bandwagon. Regardless, this does not make blatant bandwagonry any more acceptable.

So by your logic, it would be OK if I said, "I fake-claim Doc so the real Doc and counterclaim me"? If I do something blatantly scummy, saying that it is blatantly scummy does NOT make it any less scummy.

I don't think bandwagonning done for the sake of bandwagonning is scummy when it is expressily admitted to being such. Obviously this doesn't apply to all situations, just bandwagonning.

Please explain why you think a bandwagon vote is a scum tell, so that I can show you why when a player calls out that their vote is a bandwagon vote, it pretty much negates the scumminess of it.[/quote]

[popsofctown]

before pops has the time to deter the wagon on his scumbuddy helghast who is merely a lurker scum who doesn't care as much

I'm voting Helghast. I support his vigging. I've explained why he should die to the fullest extent his scant posting makes it possible. How in the sam hill could any of my activity look like I'm trying to deter the wagon on Helghast?

@tmh, still want summaries or did you break and read the posts?

[WrathChild]

2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

Please define what you mean by active lurking. Because my play does not fall into that category as I understand it, yet I was one of the players you were drawing attention to. I was not even lurking, I was plainly V/LA, which was noted to both the mod AND in thread.

By your own admission you didn't have time for "serious scum hunting". Do you know what townies do when they don't have time for "serious scum hunting"? Nothing. Do you know what scum do? Act like they are scum hunting to try and blend with town.

Can we lynch and/or shoot this guy please?

I define active lurking as posting just enough to get by without being replaced while also contributing very little original content. I clearly said that you did not have access and did not consider you active lurking. I considered you Inactive.

Also, I define "Serious Scumhunting" as doing in-depth analyses of one or more players. Would you have preferred I just didn't post anything at all?

[WrathChild]

#1: Forgive me for not knowing the /barn term means the same as blatant bandwagon. Regardless, this does not make blatant bandwagonry any more acceptable.

So by your logic, it would be OK if I said, "I fake-claim Doc so the real Doc and counterclaim me"? If I do something blatantly scummy, saying that it is blatantly scummy does NOT make it any less scummy.

I don't think bandwagonning done for the sake of bandwagonning is scummy when it is expressily admitted to being such. Obviously this doesn't apply to all situations, just bandwagonning.

Please explain why you think a bandwagon vote is a scum tell, so that I can show you why when a player calls out that their vote is a bandwagon vote, it pretty much negates the scumminess of it.

[/quote]
Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

[WrathChild]

Can someone please explain the Chainsaw term?

Also I agree we need to vig someone, I'd like to stick around, but I understand the value of Vigging me.

Didn't Diddin say he would not Vig EC at somepoint?

[WrathChild]

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

Here we go. Do you stand by this Diddin?