Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

Chainsawing- Player A defends Player B from Player C by accusing Player C of being scum.
Is a scumtell, but since A and B have to be scum together for it to be the case you usually wait for a flip.

Defending a player by explaining why the case is invalid is usually more what town defending town looks like.

[WrathChild]

Chainsawing- Player A defends Player B from Player C by accusing Player C of being scum.
Is a scumtell, but since A and B have to be scum together for it to be the case you usually wait for a flip.

Defending a player by explaining why the case is invalid is usually more what town defending town looks like.

Got it. That helps thanks.

[WrathChild]

Also, does anyone think the Day Vig ability is something that should stay in the game?

[LimMePls]

Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

Because attacking someone for "weak bandwagonning" when that person is admitting that there vote is a bandwagon vote is another example of you trying to look like you are scum hunting, instead of actually scum hunting. The problem is you are using a buzz word to try and fabricate a scum motivation where there is none.

[WrathChild]

Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

Because attacking someone for "weak bandwagonning" when that person is admitting that there vote is a bandwagon vote is another example of you trying to look like you are scum hunting, instead of actually scum hunting. The problem is you are using a buzz word to try and fabricate a scum motivation where there is none.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't know the term /barn? Because that pretty much solves your whole issue. I can quote it if you like.

[Nero Cain]

For the most part I agree with you, Wrath. I assume you play offsite as well. I do to and those guys suck. So yes in lower circles you can find scum pretty easy that way. Here though its pretty common for townies to sheep. Its not a town tell but null.

[Lateralus22]

Kay. Helghast is still a useless sack. He should die. I challenge anyone who thinks Helghast is town to make a case supporting this claim. Seriously, there is nothing town about this guy

nor

have I actually seen someone try to refute the case against him.

----

WrathChild has me perplexed. His posts around here feel very townie to me, I mean come on

Yeah, I vote myself for the reasons Lat is

, who the hell says that? This makes me feel like he knew there was a problem in his play and took the pro-active approach to try and fix it. Makes me feel like he legitimately cares about finding scum. The line about him saying I had a reasonable reason to vote him reminds me of a situation from a past game, the thought process just feels more like someone actually looking for scum.

Course his points suck, but hey A for effort. Dunno about the lynch but personally I'm taking my name of the vig list for now.

----

Out of all the people on the WC wagon initially themanhimself was the only supporter I felt uncomfortable with. You see, saying

"oh woopty do we get info from dis lolz

is a shit reason. In this instance it doesn't look like he's trying to find scum at all but choosing a popular target because essentially, you get info from EVERY flip.

The sudden nervous energy concerning Helghast and his view of me feels off. I don't like how he's never actually explained his own direct thoughts on Helghast even when he wants him vigged, nor has he followed up when I asked him what he thought of me.

----

I don't get why people think pops is scum, he feels very townie to me. He's active and constantly participates in the thread sharing his views. His thoughts are very transparent. I don't think the "fear mongering" as MoI put it is scummy and feels more like a real concern.

If there's anything super important that I missed let me know cuz I skimmed the walls but I'm not seeing it.

----

curiouskarmadog is meh. I feel like the "slip" people called out isn't really so. That said I barely even remember anything he did, I'm curious as to why he isn't a Helghast hater.

----

MoI is town, don't agree with everything he says though. I'd like him to summarize his views on chk-scum because I get lost in the WoT's.

----

LmP & WC argument is boring. Arguments from both sides suck. Lmp gets scum points for this one.

Conclusion:

Not much has changed. WC got lower on the scum spectrum and the WoT's aren't helping anyone (yeah yeah). Helghast still needs to die and themanhimself is another point of interest.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, updating games…typing as I am going…and I am going back to page (ugh) 16.

Who's lynch do you want?

What weird vibes am I giving you? Why don't you see Helghast scum, also what do you think of Wrath's latest posts?

liking lateralus, appears to be wanting people to give stances

- CKD's frantic firing 355-357 raises huge exclamation points out of my head. I don't understand how any townie wouldn't see Eruci and immediately know what it means. He obviously has

no idea

in the first two posts and miraculously posts "ohIgetit" before anyone can call him on it? I call bullshit. His response to IAI's question of his alignment is a half-ass jokey response that reads more scummy than anything I've read in this game thus far. He writes "if I was on another team... wouldn't I know who was town and scum? :dumbrolleyesemotetoemphasizedumbjoke:" UMM, NO, ACTUALLY. IT DOESN'T. IF YOU WERE TOWN, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THE TOWN AND THE MODERATOR HAVE SOMEHING HUGE IN COMMON.

I read it as saying “the mod changed X to a survivor”… I was confused…I know that the town and the mod have something in common….but that is beside the point because my fucking PM is posted on the first page…and, I wasn’t the only one that it tripped up..but lets get to that point.

- Then CKD has the gaul to end 374 by calling out popsofctown for the very same thing he just missed, as if to use a little deflection himself. If both flip scum, I'd lol, but pops has been very pro-town this game, so it could be a coincidence.

OK, I can see how you misread this post too.

Wondering if your confusion with the word Eruci is tied to another team's allegiance...

if I was on another team...wouldnt I know who was town and scum?

what I find interesting though is why you pointed at me, but completely ignore the other person who did the EXACT same thing.

ebwop, the mod said he was a townie. I got confused by the town alignment being named after the mod :S

why is that?

I am not calling out pops..I understand completely why pops misread the mod post….the entire post is direct towards I Am Innocent

I only quoted pop’s post to demonstrate that I wasn’t the only person who missed it. I was asking I Am Innoent “why is that”….not Pops…which by the way, I don’t think I Am Innocent addressed…but considering that the post was hard to read, I guess I understand why, but still want to know why he is attacking me, but not pops. (edit: scratch this, IAI addresses it with pops in 465)

Also, on the argument as a whole…it falls apart. A.) the sample PM is on the 1st page., B.) if I was scum, I would know who town was. If it does anything, it suggests that Pops and I are at least not in a mafia group.

Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.

interesting statement...if WC flips scum?..not liking this post.

Post Count:

-LynchMePls: 2

-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11

-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3

-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

Ok, had some extra time this morning. There are three players with disturbingly low post counts. I need to double check the V/LA status on these people.

any reason you have no comment on Snake?

Lurker hunting is NOT a good place to start to find SCUM. It is a good place to start to find mislynches.

Expanded enough?

I feel like I am have had this same arguement with you before....sooooo, given this theory...all scum has to do is not post...I understand this stances..after D1, but during D1? Just thought, if in the future LMP, flips scum, I would look to the lurkers for buddies...

that being said, need to look back at that game when i have time...thinking you were scum in that game we had that discussion. If I find that to be true…thoughts?

Stop wallposting.
I haven't and am not going to read the past 20 posts.

why? The guy you are voting is posting…aren’t you trying to look for scum?

Vote Parama.

Is that vote scummy? What are your top three scum suspects? Are you going to see this vote because you are not reading “walls of text”?

@snake, before the days ends..I want your top 3 scum suspects and why! Consider my vote on Parama just as easily on you...

[Lateralus22]

snake-scum hasn't caught up yet because scum doesn't have motivation to do so.

[WrathChild]

@Nero 530: I beginning to realize my meta is much less developed than this one. That's why I'm here.
@Lateralus 531:
-RE: tmh, I agree people on the WC wagon should be closely scrutinized.
-RE: Helghast, I orginally felt he was town, but you bring up some interesting points, I am less sure now.
-RE: Pops, I was starting to get the feeling early on that he was trying to break the game and may have slipped about removing ability strategies involving killing townies. Since then I have seen him be pro-town for the most part.
-RE: LMP, He feels over defensive and pushing a weak case on a player he views as weak.
@Curious:
-RE: Saint, perhaps he knows I will flip town.
-RE: Snake, at the time of the post I made he had just shown up from V/LA and promised to catch up.. Since then he has done nothing and should be replaced or made dead.
-RE: Parama, I was also shocked by the scumminess of the comment.

[WrathChild]

Heck why not,
Pressure Vote

UNVOTE, VOTE: Snake

Contribute please.

[Lateralus22]

dude, stop voting in red, im color blind (no srly thats why your vote isn' t counted I guess)

[popsofctown]

Vote in black bold on this site, please..

[Parama]

Still way too much wallposting.

[WrathChild]

Vote in black bold on this site, please..

Sorry bad habbits die hard I guess.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Snake

[diddin]

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

Nope. I'm not making someone else claim at this point. I'm either shooting WC or Helghast.
I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

Here we go. Do you stand by this Diddin?

[diddin]

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

Here we go. Do you stand by this Diddin?

Nope. I'm not making someone else claim at this point. I'm either shooting WC or Helghast.

fixed

[WrathChild]

Why do you refuse kill EC?

[Lateralus22]

WC vote for a vig target plz

[WrathChild]

I would have liked to hear why Diddin won't shoot EC, but if he won't obviously I vote Helghast cause he has a better chance of being scum than me.

[Lateralus22]

I vote Helghast cause he has a

better chance

of being scum than me.

You don't sound very certain about this. You're seriously making me confused as hell >.>

[q21]

-Breaking my original post up into pieces because for some reason the site won't let me post the whole thing. I think that means its too long... sorry.


Right, so I've read through the games 22 pages from scratch and biggest feeling at this moment is that my eyes are about to fall out of my head, giving my brain a chance to make a daring break from freedom through the suddenly open eyeballs. BUT! But I am now fully caught up and see no reason why I shouldn't be able to stay that way. Here are my thoughts for the game so far and as someone who dislikes (okay, HATE might be a more accurate word) textwalls I will try to keep this concise, but I make no promises.

The first thing that caught my attention on rereading was this post of diddin's from way back when, which I have, in fact already commented on in this game but I saw something I missed the first time around.

Hello everyone.

Based on my initial readthrough the idea of passing antitown roles to someone scummy seems like a fairly good idea. Parama's hot potato thing is ...rather interesting.

Also, my role says something about a virus being unleashed. Should I fullclaim?

Also

Vote: Quadz08

. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.

At the beginning of this post diddin describes Parama's role as "...rather interesting" which to my mind reads as him viewing the role negatively. Later in the post he calls it a fairly powerful town role which seems somewhat at odds to me. All things considered though this is just more fuel on the fire... I already thought diddin was scummy and I don't want to lynch him in the hope that we might be able to preserve his role.


The next thing that I considered while reading was the the explosion of muh. I see Parama as being at no fault whatsoever for that. He had no way of knowing he'd be killing a valuable power role. He passed the bomb early enough that muh had plenty of time to pass it again. The scummy way to play that role would be to keep it until just before its deadline and then nail some unsuspecting sod. I think the bomb incident is a null tell on Parama at most and as such I became suspicious of those who when after him once muh's flip had been announced on account of it seeming scummily opportunistic. Those people are namely Ethereal Cookie (who was seemingly continuing an attack) and Powerox who votes with this post almost immediately after the flip:

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

Which is incredibly weak given the nature if muh's play. The fact that Powerox revotes Parama at a later stage with this is just as bad or even worse:

powerrox please lay a vote down

[Bad joke]Shouldn't I hammer someone instead?[/Bad joke]

Then I'm going back to my VOTE: Parama that I had before AntB that got modkilled

Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that?

No, not yet at least. I've played with him before and he played like this.

-~-~

Also, I don't see how Helgast is scummy

The way he says it like he somehow had a valid reason for voting Parama originally is scummy. He's using his own previous weak vote on Parama as precedent to justify his current vote. He's trying to present this vote as solid when it is in fact build on a foundation made of straw. While there isn't anything else in his posts as genuinely scummy as these two votes I find that there is also nothing that even remotely resemble a redeeming quality in any of his posts.

As for EC, the fact that he hasn't voted for anyone but Parama all game is a little off-putting. He's been updating his justification for that vote and while I feel that his justifications are largely wrong I get it at least shows that he's trying. Thing is, it could be trying to find scum, or it could be trying to look like he's scumhunting. I wouldn't oppose his vigging and would probably support his lynch. I realise that this probably amounts to fence sitting on EC, but there are others I'm more interested in and would rather commit myself to those than take a cast iron stance on EC.

[q21]

-Part 2

Another topic to weigh in on is Wrathchild. Personally I've read his "I understand why you want to vig/lynch me so go ahead" posts as appeals to emotion every time he's made them. I can appreciate that he's had limited time to post (hell, I've had zero chance to post for over a weak) but he's spent the posts he has had either in those appeals to emotion I've mentioned or trying to forge himself a defence rather than trying to help the town at all. If he doesn't pick up his actually contribution to town winning this game he's in the next day or so then I'm all for vigging him.

The tree stump role needs to be gotten rid of, of this there can be no doubt. We can't lynch it. We can't rely an any plan to kill it overnight on the basis of a doc/roleblocker/redirector/etc and the fact that we don't even know if there is a town controlled nightkill. I think that we need to take care of it while we have a dayvig and we know where the stump role is because tomorrow (or some other day in the future) we may no longer have a dayvig and might for some reason be unable to find the tree stump. I therefore support diddin killing implosion for all that I don't particularly think that implosion himself is scum.

The fact that its essentially a voteless role

IS

a bummer and would deff be harmful to the town in end game but unkillable could be useful. So advocating getting rid of a role that couldn't be killed doesn't seem exactly pro-town to me.

++++assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work. You JUST got done blastin' TMM for wanting a "no lynch" but you want a "no kill".

I did blast themanhimself for wanting a no lynch, which he deserved. I did not, at any time, advocate a "no-kill" on account of implosion having claimed to be unlynchable not unkillable. Point refuted.

What do you think of tmh?

I haven't got any really scummy vibes from him but I don't like how Q21 blasted him for wanting a "no lynch" while he himself wanted a "no kill". So it made me think TMH might be town if Q21 flips scum.

Again, this based on a falsehood. He isn't directly calling me scum via that falsehood, but he is, obliquely at least, suggesting it.
And to preempt this question being redirected to me - as I will admit it rightly should be given my last two comments.

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work.

Not so. I believe that implosion has declared unlynchable, not unkillable.

Yeah yeah yeah. So I missed it. He clarified it. Why are you making it out into a big deal? And why are you not worried about CHK and I AM who supposedly missed it as well?

It was not something that was said and you failed to see, therefore stating that you missed it is incorrect. What you did was create, either consciously or subconsciously, the idea of implosion being unkillable by extrapolating inaccurately from what he did say. And then using that to imply that I am scummy.
As for I Am Innocent and chkflip, yes they both misunderstood the role, but not in the same manner you did - there misunderstanding is actually understandable as it is based on the way a treestump role often works. Also, they didn't use that misunderstanding to insinuate that someone else was scummy, which I feel you have done. I bringing up IAI and CHK I get the impression that you are trying to group yourself with other plays who you know are generally viewed as more townie than yourself in order to make your error seem less that is truly is.

Even if you give passes to URoE, LynchMePls, and Snake (URoE hasn't and probably won't confirm, the other two have said they'll be V/LA for a couple more days yet), we've still got ten players here who are making posts and not throwing down a vote. What gives? WC, Helghast, quadz, chkflip, Magna, q21, theman, ckd, Power... I'm looking at y'all. By the way, of this group, Helghast is the only one who hasn't ever cast a vote (and he still hasn't even after I called him out for it earlier), but, if you throw out RVS, I don't think Magna, chkflip, and WC have made an "actual" vote yet either.

I must pint out that I take exception to this, I was V/LA and had announced such in thread, quite clearly.



Right, anything else I might say at this point would be parroting and I seem to have left my parrot suit in my other pants... also this post is getting long enough as is. I think that with 9 days left until what is at the moment a tentative deadline I feel comfortable in voting who I feel most strongly is scum rather than voting on one of the more established bandwagons, therefore:

Vote Powerrox93

Other scum reads at the moment: Nero Cain. diddin. Less so, themanhimself and EC.

Since I think it would be remiss not to comment on the leading bandwagon of the moment: On my reread of the thread I kept seeing people pointing at Helgast as scummy without actually seeing a lot in the way of scumminess from him. It would be nice if he posts more in the way of reads and his reticence to vote is a little vexing but just as likely (if not moreso) to be a playstyle issue as a scumtell. Personally I think we, as a town would do better to lynch someone genuinely scummy (like Powerrox) that some who's only real fault is that they aren't playing particularly townie manner rather than that they're playing scummily.

[q21]

Looking back it isn't that long... I don't know what the problem was.

[diddin]

I would have liked to hear why Diddin won't shoot EC, but if he won't obviously I vote Helghast cause he has a better chance of being scum than me.

I don't want to make someone else claim. I said it a few posts up.