First things first – since Mod has declared that scum apparently can use the 'Kill and Pass To' method to eliminate cycling powers much of my objections to Pops’ motives are not valid.
UNVOTE: Pops
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Power wrote:I still cannot see why Helghast is so scummy.
Why post this statement in two of the last three post you have made (ISOs 13 and 15)? What scum-hunting motive does it serve to repeatedly say you don’t see someone as scummy? Why is he Town?
Here’s another question – is the sole reason your vote still sits on Parama revolve around muh’s read?
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Lat wrote:MoI is town, don't agree with everything he says though. I'd like him to summarize his views on chk-scum because I get lost in the WoT's.
I’ll do a full ISO demonstration on chkflip in the next few days. This post is long enough as is.
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Snake wrote:Jeez, these wall posts are really annoying. Not been on fora fair few days but will try and catch up.
So once again you wish to play to your scum meta of lurking, especially when not under pressure?
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Saint wrote:I feel like a doctor-protected-semi-confirmed-town MoI would be very beneficial to the town on D2
Um, whut?
1. Directing the Doc – bad juju.
2. Why in the hell are you buddying up to me Furc? You have to know, given our history, that I would find it very suspicious.
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quadz wrote:Those are far from equivalent. Mafia has some small influence on what happens in the day. They have (pretty much) 100% control over their NK. Comparing the two is basically apples and oranges.
Um what? I’ve never made any argument about the Mafia NK being equivalent to Town voting. Where are you getting this from?
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LMP wrote:It doesn't get more blatant bandwagonny than that.
So stating you bandwagon vote with no reason is such makes it Pro-Town? Really?
LMP wrote:Lurker hunting is NOT a good place to start to find SCUM. It is a good place to start to find mislynches.
Then why didn’t you mention Pops along the same lines? She has championed that lurker hunting is good Town play.
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Pops wrote:If you want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were players who were more scummy in the town in that point in time, and that I am so competent at mafia that I wouldn't have missed that as a townie, please, go ahead, and show your work. Since town's only lynch a few percentage points above random chances, though, I somehow think there's room for honest disagreement.
So you are asking me to prove to a standard impossible to meet in a game that is subjective, as Mafia is, and to further more prove your skill at Mafia? That’s a pretty outlandish standard you have there.
Pops wrote:Seems just as dependent on flips as chainsawing. I don't see any validity going on here unless one of the targets the fence sitter feebly poked at was actually scum.
I disagree. Town doesn’t need to establish that sort of position regardless of which way the issue falls. It certainly isn’t confined to being valid only after flips.
I sense we are going to be disagreeing on many game theory issues (since I think lurking is a playstyle that is alignment independent).
Pops wrote:Explain the superior alternative method of directing the daykill.
You don’t direct it. diddin shoots who he ‘thinks’ is scum and bears the consequences. Under your method diddin has zero culpability for his shot and really doesn’t have to actively scum-hunt.
Pops wrote:Vocality is correlated with being town aligned, posting makes you readable so scum avoid posting. So unless you know that specific vocal people are scum, which you can't possibly know as town, this statement is ridiculous.
No, vocality is a function of the player, not their alignment. I can point out all sorts of examples of players who are prolific posters regardless of alignment if you wish.
Pops wrote:Why don't we do this with lynches Magna? It's quite feasible. I nominate a player we're curious about, say, chkflip. We tell chkflip to select a player to die today. He votes that person, we all vote with him, he takes full responsibility.
Because that’s a frankly stupid method to lynch by? How are you selecting chkflip? By your good looks and abrasive personality?
Pops wrote:Please, please, explain the difference. There's a reason we don't nominate "Kiras of the day" to pick someone to die. That player has an X/N chance of being scum, the amount of scum influence doesn't change with the method. The kill doesn't provide conclusive evidence about the player's alignment, chkflip might mislynch a townie because he made an honest mistake. And we get info about one players alignment instead of every single player on a giant wagon.
Are you seriously trying to equate how lynches are performed with a specific role in the game?
Every single player in the game (aside from Mr. Treestump) has the ability to scum-hunting and vote. We analyze their play based on that.
Diddin is the only current player in the game with the abililty to kill at will today (or the only player to have claimed it since he hasn’t actually shot yet). He can be judged not only on the previously mentioned voting and gameplay but also by his choice of Vig target.
You don’t increase the amount of information available by directing the vig. It is just a shadow of the regular scum-hunting going on. Yet you do remove another level of information about a player by directing diddin's actions.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
Going to start a replacement search for EC and Helghast within a few hours.
