Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Guderian]

tl;dr Tans

1. His pushes on people dont seem geniune
2. Argues nuance way to much, (and uses post/word count to hide himself in)
3. Theories and Off-cuff remarks dont seem pro town

(tans, are you pushing for a modkill of Kat, reck and fate or what?)

Vi: yes i played before this site. Why?

Moar Starbuck votes.


-PZ

This is so so lazy, and is about the extent of your content this game. Is no one else noticing this lack of much of anything here?

Fate, do you think you've been productive this game?

preview: 2 walls.

[Fate]

She is a she.

That's just what I thought when I read your post so I posted it.

@Guderian: Hopefully not.

[Fate]

@Reck and Fate – If you are Town please don’t be so fucking stupid. Then again if you are scum feel free to tea-party towards a Modkill.

this is the fencesitting hemmhaww that reeks of scum. He's careful not to call us Town (like we are) so as not to seem to have more info or reads than he should have.

Any sane man knows that scum have no motivation to run headfirst into a modkill, but he leaves that option "open" just in case he needs to wagon hop later.

Add him to the scum list, wherever I put that thing, and we're golden.

[tanstalas]

tl;dr Tans

1. His pushes on people dont seem geniune
2. Argues nuance way to much, (and uses post/word count to hide himself in)
3. Theories and Off-cuff remarks dont seem pro town

(tans, are you pushing for a modkill of Kat, reck and fate or what?)

Your first line doesn't make sense. If you didn't read then how can you say any of those 3 points?

If you are saying you did read it and are telling other people that this is the summary then please give me a couple of examples of my recent push on Katsuki of your three points, I would like to see that

They wouldn't be mod-killed for colluding to pick the same colors. It isn't against site rules, it's just.. for lack of a better word "cheap"

And Katsuki asked me what I thought of her for doing it. I figured I didn't have to as Vi summed up my thoughts on the issue quite nicely.

[tanstalas]

I forgot to ask.

@Guderian - you call PZ/The Stove out for being lazy and not providing content. Yet you seem to be sticking up for Katsuki. Do you think that she is being less lazy and/or providing more content than PZ/The Stove?

[Plum]

Having skipped ahead and read throygh Spy's trap, I'm inclined to see KK as worse, because all he says is that xvart mind-ninja'd him. While I am less than pleased by xvart's approach, him citing Spy's experience with drafting games at least indicates some thought. KK we can't see the subtleties which make xvart look at least like he might have been hunting for real.

"Spy's trap"? Please elaborate on that interpretation of his play...

No one citing Sens for having done, or claimed to have done, parallel picks in relation to Spy's - scum/SK vs. Town/SK choices. If your excuse was that you have higher expectations of logic from SpyreX, question follows: What specifically do you think SpyreX has done/might have done, given his claim of Town color/Orange color picks and his statement that he did so? Because I had a hard enough time figuring out where Xvart was coming from and realizing that our disagreement may not shed light, with current info, on Xvart's alignment. But you, what do you think SpyreX has done that is, in fact, scum-motivated?

[Guderian]

Tans, get with the program. That was Vi's request from a few pages back.

You think the level of posting by the stove and Katsuki is ===??

I'm not sure why you are trying to establish a false dilemma for me with your second line. Katsuki reads mildly pro-town any how, and certainly miles ahead of you or the stove.

Youre pushing for a modkill because it is not allowed to collude with others about what colors you pick. (At least I'm pretty sure no outside game interactions is allowed)

[tanstalas]

Tans, get with the program. That was Vi's request from a few pages back.

You think the level of posting by the stove and Katsuki is ===??

I'm not sure why you are trying to establish a false dilemma for me with your second line. Katsuki reads mildly pro-town any how, and certainly miles ahead of you or the stove.

Youre pushing for a modkill because it is not allowed to collude with others about what colors you pick. (At least I'm pretty sure no outside game interactions is allowed)

So.. those points I asked you for?

Even though you are rude and are deflecting my questions, I will be nice and answer yours.

Katsuki has posted a lot more than TS, however in terms of content they are about equal IMO. If you took what % of posts were actual posts and not just fluff TS would be above Katsuki. Seriously, go ISO her and tell me that her ISO doesn't look like a bunch of posts just to not be prodded.

If they aren't allowed to collude then they would have been modkilled by now, you know when Katsuki admitted that they did?

Are you their 4th partner? I have no idea how you have a pro-town read on her. Please explain that to me. I must be very oblivious. I want to hear what makes her pro-town to you.

[Kdub]

Plum:

So hold on. Tans voted Kdub for stating that the scum factions aren't unified . . . and Kdub voted Tans for using that as an excuse to hop on his wagon? Well, both are horrid, but. Problem is, it looks like Tans may have actually believed that the scumteam setup could've worked like that, and thoroughly,

which really calls into question the theory that he is, in fact, scum

, but I need to figure out where he started saying this, and time. Not have right this second.

The bolded part clearly is implying that tans' belief about the single scumteam is making you question whether he is scum. This is in line with earlier in the same post where you said:

You have meta/reason to belive scummeh Tans is somewhere in the range of par for the course? I'm interested over here. That said, I'm now debating the relative merits of Tans appearing as though he doesn't understand some basic setup structures going on that a scumbag would probably take for granted.

Again, the intent is clear.

Anyway...

The question I ask isn't 'Is Tans being sincere in his vote, because if so that's a Townie thing and he may not be scum'. The question I ask is 'Did Tans really think Red/Yellow could've been one team, and if so,

a scumbag would know they weren't and would probably be less likely to say it/would bring it up within a certain set of specific ways, which Tans may or may not have been in

'.

The key here isn't the difference between "is tans sincere" or "did tans really think there could be one team". What I'm focusing on is the "he may not be scum" versus "scum are less likely to say it". To me, both of those statements are implying the same thing: that you are questioning the idea that tans is scum. There may be a distinction between them in the literal sense, which you are trying to emphasize, but they both have the same implication from a scumhunting standpoint.

Do you see the problem here? Here's my take:

Plum: tans is scum for reasons X and Y.
Kdub: I don't really agree with X, but I agree with Y.
tans: Kdub is scum for reason gfwmgewnmocassawefokmgwfewqlkfewmffmfkewmlfmwkemflkwmflew Vote: Kdub
Kdub: That's a ridiculous reason. Vote: tans.
Plum: Both votes are horrible, but tans might actually believe his reasoning, which means he might not be scum.
Kdub: That has nothing to do with your original reasons X and Y, why is that making you question your read?
Plum: It's not that he may be town, it's that he may not be scum.
Kdub: Huh?

This looks like you want to start backing off of tans and are using the "he might actually believe his crazy theory" argument as an excuse to do so. The tone of post 411 is very much one of "I'm less sure of tans-scum now" despite the fact that nothing about your original argument about tans being scum was addressed.

FoS: Plum

---

Katsuki:
For someone who keeps calling me scum, you haven't presented a single reason or case. When Reck does it, it's annoying, but he's demonstrated success catching scum while playing this way before. You do not get the same benefit of the doubt just because you start playing like him. I want reasoning for all your scum reads now.

---

Guderian:
Are you still focusing on the "regardless of what one of us flips" thing? By continuing to complain about that, you are demonstrating that you missed the entire point of my argument. I was calling YOU out for taking a safe intermediate position where you can push both lynches even after one of us flips. You didn't address that at all and instead tried to paint my quote as a scumslip, which anybody can read and tell you that it isn't.

I was going to say some other stuff about post 476, but Magna already brought it up.

[Fate]

I'm in favor of lynching tanstalas if only to remove the complete idiocy that is a "Reck/Kats/Fate" scum theory from the sanctity of this thread.

[Kublai Khan]

Actually, its even better than that. I expressed interest in being SK. Sens said he wanted to be scum and picked SK.

And if he was really pissed off about it. It may be a gambit, but it earns him at least a day.

My gut reaction before all this? Probably would have been some form of "Huh, guess there was a lot of people who wanted Red."

You wouldn't have busted in and said "i'll give an interesting tidbit too because its awesome my second pick was red and i didn't get it"?

What's bugging me is the implied result that you got neither of your choices. Because if you got your first choice, you wouldn't have bothered considering the implications of not getting the second. The fact that you did say something, then backpedaled away from that ridiculous conclusion, then are now defending it as it been questioned just doesn't sit right.

Additionally your wording choice is what makes you suspect. You didn't say that you picked a "town color" first, just "town". Considering that you've stated that you never took the color quota thing into account when making your draft variants. This is screaming to me that you're miffed at not getting a town or SK color. Ergo scum.

There is a cult, but it's no concern to the town.

*twitch*

@MagnaofIllusion: Ah, okay thanks..

No one citing Sens for having done, or claimed to have done, parallel picks in relation to Spy's - scum/SK vs. Town/SK choices. If your excuse was that you have higher expectations of logic from SpyreX, question follows: What specifically do you think SpyreX has done/might have done, given his claim of Town color/Orange color picks and his statement that he did so? Because I had a hard enough time figuring out where Xvart was coming from and realizing that our disagreement may not shed light, with current info, on Xvart's alignment. But you, what do you think SpyreX has done that is, in fact, scum-motivated?

Again, how is that a "trap"? A trap implies that SpyreX foresaw everything and strategized accordingly.

I'm not sure I understand the scope of your additional questions. What should SpyreX have done differently? I dunno.. Make sense? I'm really not sure what kind of answer you're looking for. Let me know if my above response to SpyreX illuminates my position on things.

I guess it boils to, if you were in SpyreX's shoes and you submitted town/sk, would you confirm the existence of SK if you had gotten your first choice?

[Vi]

Way too many people saying way too little.
There are (evidently)

nine scum

in this game. They're

everywhere

. It's getting to the point where everyone wants to see alignment flips of more than one person, and it just so happens that there are at least three parties in this game who have a vested interest in killing said scum at Night.
Rather than argue with people you think are scum, get other people to join wagons on them. They'll argue whether they want to be on the wagon or not, and you can change your mind then.
Thank you in advance. Also, vote Starbuck. The wagon has Jack and me, what more could you ask for?

tanstalas.

Please stop posting unless you want to change your vote. Your logic is bad and you're giving people reasons to produce even more wallposts, preventing people from catching up, likely forcing replacements and producing people who just don't have time or interest to read the game. If a wagon comes back on you we'll reconsider, but until then :takeiteasy:

Answering your question about Katsuki - Mildly suspicious. This could be from the dissonance from claiming CAPS LAWCK but attempting to be reasonable, but I was more taken aback by that strong stand on xvart-morelikelyTown (coming immediately after I said "I think xvart is Town"). Plus I'm still not sure if anyone REALLY knows why Kdub was getting voted in the first place. If you're asking for input about your argument with Katsikat, see previous textblock. Kats is also scummy for not posting with the CupcakePanda avatar more.

Guderian

- Okay, reading your post would have told me you played offsite. >.<

In EACH large theme game I have played (an one or two in other places) a whole host of people have jumped on me for posting shit like this, often containing the same words I hear here 'fluff' 'defensive' 'stupid posts'. Ok, If you think I am scum, make something out of it.

MoI in particular explained very well why you're scum based on something similar to this accusation. Also, presumably your offsite experience would preclude a "join date" argument, because you've been playing there longer and apparently you're still getting hit by these accusations.
Somewhat more importantly, wouldn't this quote be a suggestion to, y'know,

not do whatever it is you're doing?

Toogeloo

- I'm curious who you find

suspicious

.

Plum

- Talk about someone other than SensFan, please.

U. Vote Count

Starbuck [4] - Jack, The Stove, Vi, MagnaofIllusion
tanstalas [4] - SpyreX, Plum, Kdub, Guderian
xRECKONERx [3] - KageLord, xvart, Dekes
Kdub [2] - Andrius, Katsuki
nopointinactingup [2] - xRECKONERx, Fate
Katsuki [2] - SensFan, tanstalas
SensFan [2] - AlmasterGM, nopointinactingup
Andrius [1] - Starbuck
MagnaofIllusion [1] - dramonic
SpyreX [1] - Kublai Khan

Not voting [3] - Kast, Stephoscope, Toogeloo

[Jack]

Although I don't like plum's lack of comments on other stuff, kdub's bit on her is bogus as hell.

[Toogeloo]

In other news, I've counted thus far at least 4 people who put Orange in one of the two colors based on the way things have been phrased and such. Of those 4, SpyreX is the only one who stated he put it second. Many have not yet commented on their color choice selection in such an obvious way though, so I am betting there were more.

I'm apparently braindead. Who else besides Sens has done it? I'd LOVE to see it in context if you'd be so kind because that furthers what I've been saying with this selective garbage, depending.

Magna strongly eluded to it:

1. Second choice. Hardly a surprise given how popular my first choice was.

And Jack mentioned it here:

This is craziness. The choices are RANKED. If you put SK in the second slot the ONLY way you will get it is if NO ONE picks it. I even said, when I picked it first, "I hope I'm one of the dozen players who put it first who gets it".

More interestingly, upon further review, Jack said this:

1. I don't remember if it was my first or not, but I know it was one of my top 2.

I will also admit to having put Orange first when I quoted Magna, I said as such:

1. Second choice. Hardly a surprise given how popular my first choice was.

Just noticed this. You are a man after my own heart MoI.

---

Toogeloo

- I'm curious who you find

suspicious

.

On the lynches, I don't like Jack or Guderian, and I am getting bad vibes from The Stove and SpyreX. Of the lynch targets, I dislike Starbuck. I also don't like lurkers, but the game hasn't been running long enough I suppose to really call anyone a lurker. Dekes just makes my gut tingle though. Most the game has been meta about setup and who would pick what. I don't really know any of you enough to participate in this endeavor.

Vote: Jack

for the interesting slip in comment, and the fact that I don't really like his play thus far.

[Fate]

ohohoHOHOHOHHOHO JACK.

WHAT SAY YE

(hey reck no one is on our wagon of justice...)

[xRECKONERx]

You are missing the whole point. You said scumSensFan implies scumDram, which implies scumnopoint, and you want to start at nopoint and work your way backwards? On what planet is does this line of thinking imply the best lynch order starts with the person that is contingent on two other unflipped people being scum? Is SensFan your buddy and this is a terrible passive aggressive bus?

It took me a little while to work everything out in my head. Plus, I'm always REALLY REALLY hesitant to vote dramonic since I wuv him and all, so I try to find the best way to NOT do that… but now I've realized it doesn't really matter since all three of them are scum.

Hello? I'm not asking questions to entertain myself here. Explain this post:

See above.

Your original argument wasn't about finding the SK. It was about finding scum.

HERP DERP THE SK IS A TYPE OF SCUM
DERPA DERPA

1. Sometimes I get really pissed off on this site because people seem to view a later join date as an 'easier mark'. In EACH large theme game I have played (an one or two in other places) a whole host of people have jumped on me for posting shit like this, often containing the same words I hear here 'fluff' 'defensive' 'stupid posts'. Ok, If you think I am scum, make something out of it. I see this in a lot of games I play, and (not always in regards to me). A few suggestions here or there and out of nowhere a bandwagon has appeared.

Cool ATE bro

What is this I dont even. This statement could easily have been left at 'dont be fucking stupid.' What Your last sentence is trying to achieve is beyond me.

what is this i don't even
this statement could have been left out entirely
what this entire paragraph is trying to achieve is beyond me

SEE HOW EASY IT IS?

Dislike fates play here. Someone point out the massive protown read they are getting for me.

You can just go sit in the corner and await your lynch now.

Well on your request, Iosed starbuck. Nonsense coming from her right now really. I think this is a convenient wagon because all she has done is post flavor instead of anything. I mean, that isnt protown, but neither has a lot of other people been. I dont see it as wagon worthy unless the point is to get her to contribute. This wagon will probably dissipate when she stars posting stuff.

Staying off of a popular, easy wagon = INSTANT TOWN POINTS
ISN'T THAT A GOOD THING FOR SCUM TO DO?
PROTIP: YES, YES IT IS

Disclaimer: I have absolutely no flavor knowledge of Blackest Night, aside from who the good and bad colours are by virtue of factions in OP and loose wiki knowledge.

I acknowledge and support this post.

Interesting that some people seem to have no idea what a large part of the starbuck wagon is about. foes:katsuki

You're ten kinds of terrible.

@Reck - After skimming NPIAU in 2 games where he is scum (POP and 1040) I do not think he is scum this game.

Stop being stupid, then.

I don’t know if you failed basic math but claims of 6-6-6-7 means one Town color has an excess of 1. That hardly qualifies as what I bolded above.

Hi Magna.
Hyperbole here.
Ever met me?

Are you saying that avoiding a NK didn’t play even a smidgeon into your little protest? Really?

No. Avoiding a nightfall never came into the picture. I was just being obnoxious to piss off ReaperCharlie.

CAPSLAWKALLIANCE = ALIGNMENT CONFIRMED MASONS, NEXT!

QFT

I see the starbuck case now.
Reck thinks she's town though.

She is town.
And while we can deal with the tans/Kdub scumteam tomorrow, we need to deal with the SensFan-NPIAU-dramonic scumteam today.

So, you are saying you guys did arrange to submit the same colors?

LOLWUT
This is the greatest stretch in the history of stretches. I'd be LOLing IRL if I wasn't so damn hungover.

Tans, brah, you best back the FUCKS up off Katsuki before Fate & I have to go MEDIEVAL all over your ass.

Reck, join me if you dare

WHAT A PERFECT TIME TO BUS YOUR SCUMBUDDY
FATE, KATSUKI
WE'RE ON THIS SHIT

UNVOTE, VOTE: SENSFAN

HEY DRAM
YOU NEED TO BE NEXT ON THIS WAGON
IT'S TOTALLY YOUR M.O.

scum list:
starbuck
nopoint
katsuki

icky list:
xreck
spyrex

I hate you about 20% less now that NPIAU is on your scummiest.
You need to get Starbuck & Katsuki THE FUCK OFF THAT LIST though.
Awww SpyreX he called us icky
imma go cry now

Bad excuse is bad.

Even if it started over the holidays, do you think it would be over by now?

YOU WILL SHUT THE FUCK UP
RIGHT NOW
THIS IS THE WORST PRESSURING I'VE EVER FUCKING SEEN
OH MY GOD YOU'RE BAD AT MAFIA
AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY LIKE ME

[referencing NPIAU] Helloooooooo vigs?

You can be on my good side for now.

Moar Starbuck votes.

…k nvm.

Now that you mention it. I've never been vigged before o.0

WHY.
WOULD.
YOU.
MAKE.
THIS.
POST.

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE VOTING YOUR SCUMBUDDY
OTHERWISE YOU WOULD 100% BE LYNCHED TODAY
WELL, YOU STILL WILL
MAYBE
I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK

If Katsuki is on your scum list, why not include Reck and Fate, who Katsuki claims are alignment-confirmed masons with him? That claim really only makes me want to lynch Reck more considering we kill multiple birds with one stone. If he flips town alignment-confirmed mason, we have 2 confirmed townies. If he flips scum, we have a great place to look for buddies. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a Katsuki lynch either for a lot of the same reasons as Reck. Not to mention the ridiculous way he attempts to dodge tanstalas's inquiries.

Um. Hi.
This is called ME FATE AND KATSUKI ARE ALWAYS ALIGNMENT CONFIRMED MASONS IN EVERY FUCKING GAME
Are you catching on yet, or do I need to get Big Bird and Elmo up in this bitch to drop some knowledge on you?

Oh how did you guess.

and there is no way I could've stepped away from mafiascum.net, nope.

LOL <3

Fate, do you think you've been productive this game?

@Guderian: Hopefully not.

Best. Exchange. Ever.

If they aren't allowed to collude then they would have been modkilled by now, you know when Katsuki admitted that they did?

HOLY SHIT DROP IT
YOU DENSE, IRRITATING FUCK

I'm in favor of lynching tanstalas if only to remove the complete idiocy that is a "Reck/Kats/Fate" scum theory from the sanctity of this thread.

QFT

HEY TANS
EVEN

VI

CALLED YOUR LOGIC BAD
THAT'S WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE FUCKED

ohohoHOHOHOHHOHO JACK.

WHAT SAY YE

(hey reck no one is on our wagon of justice…)

They will be ONCE I REVEAL MY SUPERDAYCOP ABILITIES
Actually seriously.
Just jump on this SensFan wagon with me so we can help NPIAU bus his scumbuddy.

Reck's Scumlist, which is guaranteed to be 99% accurate OR YOUR MONEY BACK!:

SensFan
NPIAU
dramonic
tanstalas
Guderian
maybe Jack

IN CASE THE MOD DIDN'T SEE IT
UNVOTE; VOTE: SENSFAN

[xRECKONERx]

holy shit what have you guys done to me
i just wall o' text'd

[Fate]

Unvote:
Vote: Sensfan

Weeeeeeeeee

[Jack]

Fate how come you aren't playing normally?

[Fate]

>_>
<_<
>_________>

[The Stove]

y halo thar KageLord.

If Katsuki is on your scum list, why not include Reck and Fate, who Katsuki claims are alignment-confirmed masons with him?

That's probably because Jack's actually paying attention. And if you really believed those three were masons, I'd expect you to be raging about unnecessary claiming. But you're not. so

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a Katsuki lynch either for a lot of the same reasons as Reck. Not to mention the ridiculous way he attempts to dodge tanstalas's inquiries.

Show dodging plz.

I'm pretty sure my last post was within 24 hours of this one.

I'm pretty sure you have 3 posts in 23 pages. I dunno what you think you can accomplish at that post rate.

Also Starbuck opinion while you're at it would be faboo.


-PZ

[xRECKONERx]

Fate how come you aren't playing normally?

This is the worst comment of the game.

fate that vote hop was shmexy as hell
do me

[Katsuki]

SSBF PREFERENCE FOR TOWN?
SENSFAN CLAIM OF SCUM COLORS?
RECK AND FATE ENDORSED?

UNVOTE, VOTE: SENSFAN

[xRECKONERx]

^ That post was shmexy too.

guys threeway now plz

[xRECKONERx]

oshit

dram just saw that post and got upset with me
im in troubbbleeeeee (with a scumbag)