Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[InflatablePie]

I have a headache so bad I can barely concentrate.

oritz, the fact that you posted "oh, I haven't read but let me vote the person that's been given the most heat in the last few pages" seemed like a bullshit excuse to wagon. That's why it was a bad post.

[diddin]

Zdenek has offered to replace Umbrage. I'll send out his role PM tomorrow as well as post a vote cound, but I'm about to pass out I'm so tired.

[Olinea]

I formally retract my claim,

and welcome all investigation attempts

.

What do you mean by this, Furcolow?

Surely any rational townie would rather have a Cop investigate someone who was scum.

[InflatablePie]

6 posts of content in 24 hours, guys? Really?

Been too lazy (like most of the other players it seems) to address those walls/comments like I said I would, same with the ISO on oritz. But I like this for now:

Vote: oritz

I work tonight, but I'll try and post content later. And yes, I know, the hypocrisy of pointing out lack of content and not offering any myself...

[Zdenek]

Hi, I'm replacing Umbrage. I'll read through and post my thoughts soon.

[sorasgoof]

Sorry about the activity; yesterday was the first day of school and as soon as I got home, I went to sleep for the day (pretty much).

I still need to find a place for my vote, I realize that, and I'm also still open to questions, which I'm sure you have.

[diddin]

Votecount

ortiz1193 (3) el simo, Cyberbob, InflatablePie
el simo (0)
ThAdmiral (0)
Furcolow (2) Zdenek, Fugitive
Zdenek (2) chamber, Olinea
chamber (0)
sorasgoof (0)
InflatablePie (0)
Olinea (0)
Cyberbob (1) ortiz1193
Thirdkoopa (2)Furcolow, ThAdmiral,
Fugitive (0)
Not Voting (2)Thirdkoopa, Sorasgoof

It is now day one. With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 to no lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, January 12 at 10:41 AM Central Time.


Zdenek replaces Umbrage! Welcome him kindly!

chamber has picked up his prod, but not posted. He is being replaced. Prodding Thirdkoopa, time #2.

[el simo]

Means we don't have to wait until tomorrow to deal with this ^

unvote, vote: ortiz1193

Doing that so close to deadline? idunlykit

Do it. (Forgot to copy the elaborate part)

I voted because it was so close to deadline. I've explained this 100 times but please do post. Not a single person has posted reasoning for me being scum.

It's not your vote that is scummy it's the situation surrounded it. You don't both to explain your suspicion on even state that you had any, then you continue to say that you will check in a few hours to make sure your vote is in the right place for a lynch to happen.

The rest of us decided to compromise our target to get a lynch that we can all be happy with and were posting actively, you decided just to put your vote anywhere to make sure we lynch someone and then disappear for a while. You also tried to excuse your lack of input and limited activity during the few hours before our deadline because you had to eat and write an essay, setting you up to hop bandwagons willy nilly with out having to explain your actions at all because you have to get back to writing that essay and eating that food.

Just no good bro, not this close to deadline. Hoping for an extra phase to come up with an explanation for you votes?

[el simo]

Sora:

Ortiz was first to move off my wagon, you were last. Ortiz did it before I lost the heat, you did it after it moved to Umbrage, that is what I was trying to illustrate in my post about you.

As for ISO51 and 63, I don't see the similarity.

---

Eh that wasn't as much catching up as I thought.

[el simo]

Sorry about the activity; yesterday was the first day of school and as soon as I got home, I went to sleep for the day (pretty much).

I still need to find a place for my vote, I realize that, and I'm also still open to questions, which I'm sure you have.

Yes I have one, how can you having me scum or leaning towards scum, neutral and town or leaning towards town?

[ortiz1193]

oritz, the fact that you posted "oh, I haven't read but let me vote the person that's been given the most heat in the last few pages" seemed like a bullshit excuse to wagon. That's why it was a bad post.

I have had him as my 2nd scumread since he first came up for discussion. You even got mad at me earlier for voting CB and said he wouldn't be lynched. This is a bullshit post. Quit acting like I switched to the person with the most heat on them (he didn't even the most votes fwiw) and that being the sole reason. It was pretty obvious why I switched to him and it will be just as obvious after the rest of this post.

It's not your vote that is scummy it's the situation surrounded it. You don't both to explain your suspicion on even state that you had any, then you continue to say that you will check in a few hours to make sure your vote is in the right place for a lynch to happen.

Oh my god are you serious? I explained it before I even posted that. I never shut up about my suspicions of sora.

-I'm still suspicious of Soras, mainly because of his posts involving Pie.

This whole group thing and the huge posts seem like very over the top ways of trying to make yourself look town, Pie.

@Olinea, Pie: This is the same thing Pie did in GHM1, if I remember correctly. I'm not saying he's scum here, but everyone went along with what he said in GHM1, and the town lost because of it (his mafia team did too, but that's not the point ). Link for those who weren't in the game: http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopi ... 99&start=0

Point is, I just don't want people to go necessarily go along with these groups Pie has made solely because he's...made them. Those are his (valid) opinions, but people looking at these groups should take other things into account, and not take them to heart so quickly (I don't know if people have yet).

This comes off to me as trying to discredit Pie as soon as he starts his case on TK. The first thing I thought was chainsaw, but that would require TK being scum, and then he voted TK in the next post so idk. I still don't like it.

Also, I don't like his reactions to suspicion being placed on him. His reactions to Chamber early in the game, the last vote on him, and my post just don't read well to me. He just comes off overly hostile in those posts.

+I think TK is the second wagon he jumped on (I think he was on one earlier when chamber voted for him), which isn't necessarily a scumtell, but still worth mentioning.

That is the reasoning behind soras being second on my scumlist.

We should decide between tk, cb, and soras imo. And no I don't want to lynch tk, but he's an option for just about everyone else.

"Good vote. I have a bad feeling about Soras. Let me reread everyone."

Good vote implies it is a good vote on Soras. Why would I approve of a vote on someone? Because I think they are, or are likely scum. Using this context, there is no ambiguity. Next, I say that I will reread. Literally 5 posts later, I proceeded to reread, and post Soras as my 2nd scumread. There was no wishy-washy. I said I had a bad feeling, rechecked, and solidified my stance. I have already covered all of this.

And FoSes are a worthless waste of space imo. Don't expect to see one from me, ever.

So I take it no one wants to lynch CB? >_> I've been seeing "yeah he's scummy but I'd rather lynch xxx" all game which makes me think CB is scum who is just getting distanced.

Deadline is soon, with the activity we need to decide on a lynch by tomorrow night since deadline is in the AM on Wednesday. I'll switch to TK if necessary for a lynch, but I'd rather lynch CB or

atleast Soras

. The only other options seem to be Furcolow and Umbrage and neither are as good of lynches as TK.

Just got back from school/work, I have to eat and write an essay (two but doubt that'll happen >_>).

I'll unvote, vote soras.

Don't have time to talk much or read the last two pages yada yada but I'll check again in a few hours and

make sure my votes in the right place for a lynch to go through

.

Ok this settles it for me. I literally could not have played the game without being called scum for it. a) I don't post at all and get called scum for lurking b) I keep my vote on CB and get called scum for contributing to a no lynch going through by not switching to the person I said I would switch to had a high chance of being lynched c) I switch votes LIKE I SAID I WAS GOING TO and get called scum for switching or d) I don't post about why I wasn't going to get to stay on and defend myself and just make a post that says "unvote, vote soras" which would be 10x worse.

I also said I would do what was necessary to get a lynch through. It's called not being an idiot. TK and Soras both had a ton of connections and votes/unvotes on them. A lynch of either of them is better than no lynching on Day 1.

I can not defend myself from this. It seems so obviously clear to me and 2 of my 3 scumreads are voting me.

The rest of us decided to compromise our target to get a lynch that we can all be happy with and were posting actively, you decided just to put your vote anywhere to make sure we lynch someone and then disappear for a while. You also tried to excuse your lack of input and limited activity during the few hours before our deadline because you had to eat and write an essay, setting you up to hop bandwagons willy nilly with out having to explain your actions at all because you have to get back to writing that essay and eating that food.

a while = two hours

setting me to hop wagons = setting me to up to help a lynch go through

without having to explain your actions =

tl;dr

I can not defend myself from this. It seems so obviously clear to me and 2 of my 3 scumreads are voting me.

oh and inb4 Pie says I'm scum for OMGUSing him even though I've already posted (no surprise there) that he's scummy, and I have for a while

[Olinea]

Mmmmkay, with the number of people replacing in I want to try an exercise I thought of today. I haven’t been too involved in the game due to not a lot of arguments taking place around me, and as such my incentive to read has been a bit… low. So I’m going to give my point of view via a recap of the entire thread, pointing out things which I thought were significant and giving my views. This may be helpful to any replacees as well as explain my thoughts on the game thus far.

If anyone wants to do this as well, good on ya.

Confirmation phase happens. RVS goes on until Umbrage jokes about how he doesn’t RVS and how it’s scummy and how it’s scummy to point out how it’s scummy. The notable vote on Umbrage is el simo’s.

I agree.

On a completely unrelated note I think I'll randomly Vote: Umbrage.

Umbrage self-votes and Ortiz does as well. Cyberbob votes for Ortiz, I ask him about it, and we get snippets between me and chamber as to the relevance of my question until Umbrage tells us that the snippets are distracting. ThAdmiral brings up el simo’s supposedly “random” vote and calls Umbrage out for “mudslinging”.

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

This entire post is basically mudslinging.
I "disappeared" apparently, even though the game has been going for less than a day?
Olinea and chamber are posting diarrhea?
Seriously?

Vote: umbrage

el simo, however, is the main point of discussion for a while. Ortiz agrees with ThAdmiral. Admiral pushes the case on el simo, who appears to defend himself by saying the vote was on a bandwagon to create discussion. Umbrage votes for el simo. El simo says:

The vote was random, the target wasn't.

Cyberbob admits to active lurking. I also notice a fair amount of mudslinging coming from him. Sorasgoof puts a vote on el simo and chamber votes Sorasgoof for being 4th on the wagon, claiming el simo’s reasoning is valid. Oriz drops the el simo case, Umbrage and Admiral continue to push it.

Furcolow drops in to make his first post on page 7.

hi

Umbrage calls him a “useless waste of space” causing a warning.

Furcolow proceeds to vote for Ortiz before reading, claiming ties to el simo via an old Newbie game. He validates el simo’s points before educating himself. Furcolow discusses the old Newbie game in which el simo reportedly defended Furcolow who made a big fuss by claiming Cop D1 which led to el simo’s death N1. chamber calls Umbrage’s pressure “transparently scum driven”. Furcolow makes a long series of posts which noticeable target ThAdmiral as scum and defend el simo as town. The series of posts cause diddin to tell Furcolow to stop spamming, leading to this.

ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over it

This post causes a bit of confusion for some and is ignored by others.

Umbrage, after noticing Furcolow has put ThAdmiral and himself on Furcolow’s scum list, pushes the lynch of Furcolow

and

el simo. He calls Furcolow a “piece of shit” in response to the “VI account” statement for another warning. TK returns and votes for Umbrage.

InflatablePie replaces Nicodemus.

Yeah well check his record, he hasn't got away with it.

Good. I intend not to let him start.

And I'll

vote: Cyberbob

for evoking stupid anti town policy lynches.

sorry but having someone deliberately posting like a retard is one of the worst things for the town lol if you don't see why

This post of Cyberbob’s slipped under the radar but HELLO HYPOCRISY.

Umbrage restarts the el simo case, but this is quickly squelched as InflatablePie makes his first post and brings up a new target: ThirdKoopa. He tells everyone to ISO ThirdKoopa but nobody sees the case on him.

Pie: Go ahead and give us the case on why TK is scum. I see his lack of pro-town vibes, but I didn't see anything that screams scum in the ISO.

Yeah I struggle with the idea of a Koopa lynch.

Furcolow makes a post which el simo cites as evidence that Furcolow is not actually a VI. Cyberbob is unconvinced and still wants to policy lynch Furcolow until Cyberbob and el simo get into an argument about who’s been on the site longer and all that jazz. Interrupted by InflatablePie and his case on ThirdKoopa. Calls TK defensive in the beginning of the game, then trying to appear town, then fencesitting, then bandwagoning. None of these arguments are fully developed and all appear to be isolated incidents. Sorasgoof says InflatablePie is also trying to appear town. Pie doesn’t care and says the Umbrage bandwagon is a horrible one.

This is through the bottom of Page 12, will continue later but I’m at a friend’s house so I can’t really finish this ISO without being extremely rude.

[sorasgoof]

Sorry about the activity; yesterday was the first day of school and as soon as I got home, I went to sleep for the day (pretty much).

I still need to find a place for my vote, I realize that, and I'm also still open to questions, which I'm sure you have.

Yes I have one, how can you having me scum or leaning towards scum, neutral and town or leaning towards town?

That was basically just a way of me saying I can't get a read. So, neutral would be a place. I don't know what I was thinking... >_>

[Furcolow]

Does anyone with meta on Olinea know if they are active as scum?

[Furcolow]

I believe Olinea to be town, honestly, even with my above question.
I have also viewed Chambers to be town.
Zdenek is a town wagon on a replacee into a 25 page game
the replacee in question will have a more difficult time with the flow of the game...
I mean, like Olinea said, I came in on page 7 and I actually possibly read UmbRAGE more difficultly or aware of their tone than I possibly would have not replacing in. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, though. I view ThAdmiral as scum, and do not intend to be on a wagon with him. I don't view him as the bussing type of scum either, though now I've turned that into WIFOM haven't I? He probably won't even read this, anyways. Sorry if that is below the belt. He is lurker scum, and that's what he's doing here.
I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm calling it as I see it, and the way that I see it is that these two are definitely scum and need to hang.
I'm not saying "quicklynch before the replacement has time to speak", but I see this wagon as two town players, even if I might be wrong about it.

The way umbrage acted was scummy if not borderline over the line
Do you guys believe they could have been an alt releasing steam or just vehement scum trying to hide a slip
I, for one, lean towards the latter

unvote: 3rdkoopa
vote: zdenek

[InflatablePie]

oritz's response is good enough for now.

Unvote
FoS Olinea
Vote: Thirdkoopa

I think I'm finally going to stop moving my vote around. We should lynch this guy like I said we should earlier. What do you think, Chuck?



That's what I thought, too.


@Fur: I have not seen a game where Olinea has been scum. Only SK, and it's a long off-site game.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: Umbrage's replacement is an okay vote, but I'm gonna hold off on him till we get some content from the guy, since that might affect my thoughts of the slot.

[Olinea]

Does anyone with meta on Olinea know if they are active as scum?

Never been Mafia.

On the subject of meta, Umbrage's Newbie game is over, so I guess it can be used as reference. He was a Cop who replaced in D1 and was killed N1 (Though I suspect perhaps due to his replace-ee's Cop softclaim) and his play mostly resembles his play in here except:
a) In his Newbie game, boberz played an extremely aggressive game which Umbrage clearly took offense to.
b) Umbrage's play in this game is much more aggressive.

Not good with meta but it looks like this Newbie game matches Umbrage's town play.
Newbie 1039

[el simo]

Ok this settles it for me. I literally could not have played the game without being called scum for it. a) I don't post at all and get called scum for lurking b) I keep my vote on CB and get called scum for contributing to a no lynch going through by not switching to the person I said I would switch to had a high chance of being lynched c) I switch votes LIKE I SAID I WAS GOING TO and get called scum for switching or d) I don't post about why I wasn't going to get to stay on and defend myself and just make a post that says "unvote, vote soras" which would be 10x worse.

I also said I would do what was necessary to get a lynch through. It's called not being an idiot. TK and Soras both had a ton of connections and votes/unvotes on them. A lynch of either of them is better than no lynching on Day 1.

I can not defend myself from this. It seems so obviously clear to me and 2 of my 3 scumreads are voting me.

A) so post more B) this is just not true, you are not scummy for wanting to lynch someone else C) fuck have some sense ortiz, how can you say this when I haven't even replied to your defence of the accusations? Honestly, fucking hell. C is wrong because now that you've shown me how I was wrong I understand your view and realize it's NOT scummy, so next time before having a rant wait for a reply buddy. D) doesn't matter, point is you had LA and planning to vote who ever to get a lynch.

The rest of us decided to compromise our target to get a lynch that we can all be happy with and were posting actively, you decided just to put your vote anywhere to make sure we lynch someone and then disappear for a while. You also tried to excuse your lack of input and limited activity during the few hours before our deadline because you had to eat and write an essay, setting you up to hop bandwagons willy nilly with out having to explain your actions at all because you have to get back to writing that essay and eating that food.

a while = two hours

setting me to hop wagons = setting me to up to help a lynch go through

without having to explain your actions =

If you were only going to be inactive for two hours why did you bother rush posting and voting in the first place, when you could have just come back and made a better post after you've ate and written your essay?

Yeah - this isn't necessarily a good thing. Like I said we were all compromising on our targets, you said make sure your vote is in the right place for a lynch - ie who ever is at majority at the time. <- scummy

tl;dr

ortiz incorrectly predicts our response and has a rant about it

[ThAdmiral]

Does anyone with meta on Olinea know if they are active as scum?

I've played one game with Olinea before. Was town in that one and is playing similar imo.

Never been Mafia.

Lol, never mind then.

I view ThAdmiral as scum, and do not intend to be on a wagon with him. I don't view him as the bussing type of scum either, though now I've turned that into WIFOM haven't I? He probably won't even read this, anyways. Sorry if that is below the belt. He is lurker scum, and that's what he's doing here.

I didn't read this.

Seriously though all I can do is disagree with this. As I said I am trying to get on and post at least once a day as that is pretty much all I have time for. Back at work after the christmas break and all that.

Now would you be so kind as to answer fugitive's question. Just so you don't come back and say "what question?" it's this one:

To be honest, I just did this as a reaction test. I formally retract my claim, and welcome all investigation attempts.

Anyway, claiming miller for a reaction test? That's one of the worst reasons I've ever heard to back out of a claim. What, if I may ask, were the results of your test?

[Fugitive]

Sorry guys, ortiz ISO coming. I just got super swamped today and making a post in my other game where I didn't have to do even 1/4th the work of an ISO wiped me the rest of the way out. I'll really try to have it by tomorrow and comment on other happenings.

Admiral noted that fur ignored the one really import question, but I want to add it here again for emphasis. Pretty funny about calling someone out for not reading (and failing) when I think he's probably projecting his own play onto Admiral. fur strikes me as a non-reader.

@Everyone that's called Olinea town: Why? He's like my most null-read, but he seems to be called town by most. I'd just like a few reasons why, and for anyone that thinks he's more scum than town to speak up as well.

@ortiz - sorry if you've done this and I missed it somehow, I haven't read that mini-wall on this page yet, but can I get a top 3 scum reads and just like a sentence or two each for why?

Looking forward to chamber's replacement. I have a town read on that slot, so we'll see if something interesting happens there.

[Furcolow]

because olinea posts like a champion
although when zdenek flips if he is scum ill have my eye on him for defending him
when i claimed miller i was being facetious honestly
it was more of an "i'll probably end up as the miller" as a townie
do townies ever know they're the miller?
news to me

[Olinea]

although when zdenek flips if he is scum ill have my eye on him for defending him

Umbrage has been my biggest scumread for nearly the entire game.

I have no idea where you're getting this from.

Also I'm sigging that champion quote after the game.

[Furcolow]

also to clarify on whether or not i read, i read most of the thread, so you're wrong
also, why are you so willing to push me/ortiz? or are you going to iso him to deter the wagon on him?

What are your thoughts on me not voting ortiz, and forcing two competing wagons, which was then offset

I would like sorasgoof to get off the damn fence he's painting

[Furcolow]

if umbrage wasn't scum, the dude needs some barbituates prescribed