Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[ReaperCharlie]

I was distracted by something IRL that made mafia take a backseat.

d'awwwwwwwwwww

Congrats! (a year late)

[Plum]

Vi: No.

Plum, what do you think of Jack(ques)?

In regards to Jack making a scumslip, I evaluate those things on a case-by-case basis with a heaping pile of skepticism (in fact, I'm only really giving it consideration because it's a uPick-type game). In fact an apparent scumslip by Town-Jack initiated my attitude towards scumslips, so (even if he did pick Orange first, doesn't tell us much. I'd bet quite a few people did and got their second pick, and also, I disagree that people who enjoy third-party playing are more likely to also want to pick scum. It's not just anti-Town alignment you have to factor in, it's also about having to work with a team as an informed minority as opposed to with a fresh clear brain, so. EDIT: Slip was based on bad copy/pasting. I rest my assumption that scumslips aren't all they're cracked up to be; whatever). In general, hasn't made much of impression on me, I don't have any thoughts as to what his bias for alignment in this sort of game would be. His statement that by rebuttal of Kdub's arguments was logical and correct but scummy sounds just very like Jack whatever alignment he is, deliberately a bit perverse and provocative . . . and I'll admit that it irritated me a little, but what are you going to do? I didn't find that

scummy

. His stance on SpyreX is disagree with . . . but the way he got away from the Soy wagon

after

Spy pointed out the Spy/Sens attitude discrepancy feels off, as if he realized that nothing was doing with the SpyreX wagon after that but didn't really come back to his reevaluation of SpyreX when he unvoted/afterwards. He just kinda hops onto Starbuck, and I'm not sure I buy the "wanting to be scum and submitting both types of scum seems different" thing. Jack's whole argument with SpyreX was that he was if you wanted SK at all you would only ever pick it in the first slot - which is applicable even if your other choice is scum, not Town. At least with xvart the arguments I disagreed with and his reasoning for finding Spy's behavior different than Sens' was based directly on the fact that Soy's run draft-games before and would have been super-familiar with how it would work like that. A bit later, Spy is not on his Town list but on his 'Icky' list . . . with no apparent explanation of why he's less scummy. Next scum list, Spy's not on (and four others are . . . and the next one has eight players but no Spy).

And yet I can't shake the freaking gut read that he's Town, DAMMIT ALL. I shouldn't, and I wish I didn't, but somewhere along the line, maybe when he called out Kdub for BS poking at me before I said anything . . . but yeah. Objectively speaking it's the quietly disappearing attitude AT ALL on SpyreX from him which is extremely worrisome; most of the rest is stuff the could go either way really so.

... Wait, hold on, copy/paste answers to Alm's questions? What the HECK? Why anyone would do that as any alignment just . . . boggles the mind. Er.

I really am not feeling scum-Sens. It

may

just be me in Large-game-Day-1 mode not noticing quite a bit of stuff simply because there's a glut of information. But I see no indications that it is, in fact, scummy - his complaints, read over, seem fairly genuine, and given the manner in which the Role PMs were sent out he wouldn't have time to tell his buddies, were he scum, that he was going to make this move (assuming no daytalk for scum - and even so, he'd have to be starting it before his buddies even showed up).

Regarding Day1 color claim, I'm skittish even though it doesn't look like we have anything to lose that we can put a finger on. Call me conservative, but . . . and yet I doubt that the punishment factor, assuming there is one, would be strong enough to screw us over and I doubt we'd be in much worse position compared to now. Oh dammit. I'm doubtful that there is a major major downside, maybe just say screw it and go for it. Or, better yet, ask about Vi's idea. Vi, you had an idea for an alternative to colors-claim?

Just when I feel that Tans is a bad pick for scum he's tunneling on Kats in a way that doesn't make me feel good - but at this point it's clearly not worth pushing Tans as a Day 1 lynch whether or not the bad feelings are generated by actual scumhood, methinks.

Starbuck - I would be all for lynching her but for the xReckx et al. Just on basis of lurkiness combined with known penchant for being scum which was brought up, so. And Reck, no Red doesn't equal not scum, so if you're adamant about not lynching Starbuck despite that . . . I'd be willing to put it off a day or whatever, but that's not going to be something to rely on long-term, so.

Sens wagon is at least noticeably more full of people I find Town than the Starbuck wagon. Ehhhhh. Especially if Fate and Kats just ended up there due to accident + lulz, in which case the Starbuck wagon is full of some of the less overtly Townie-seeming players in this game . . . fine, Reck, keep Starbuck for now. Only problem is I don't think Sens is likely scum.

Vi: Busy days mean tired at night and more posting getting done in school, which means occasionally pages are blocked + pressed for time = more likely to get own-little-worlded, so. Fair criticism, but in short, I wasn't trying to take easy shots so I could not do anything productive; I was trying to get

something

done. Tonight turned into my big all-around catchup night, so.

As scum, she would know this information is not applicable to this game, and it would be really obvious given that her entire scumteam would be the same color.

So etc.

How applicable do you think this line of reasoning is with Tans, out of curiosity?

Andrius: I read you as Town because I trust to your desire to play as a Townie when you say so. On an unrelated note, I like playing/modding with you, too <3 (and I

am

getting stuff together for my next game . . . in a week or two, after midterms, I should be getting it together and finding a reviewer).

It most logical explanation I can come up with is that you want to direct everyone's attention to SK-hunting.

In this case your logic is more fail than SpyreX's logic could possibly be. I'm so not buying this excuse it's not even funny. And hold the phone, but

I think it's more of a slip than a tell.

Additionally your wording choice is what makes you suspect. You didn't say that you picked a "town color" first, just "town". Considering that you've stated that you never took the color quota thing into account when making your draft variants. This is screaming to me that you're miffed at not getting a town or SK color. Ergo scum.

Explain how this all lines up as motivation and execution for scum-SpyreX, because you look like you're looking for excuses to keep pushing this, but your reason for finding what he did scummy seems to have evolved at least once in a very unnatural way. That said, you say you hate being scum. I'm willing to look into this as a possibility but I'd like to know if anyone or anything previously posted can back you up on this. By the way, my sister is both amused and unamused that you're using your baby as an excuse for having screwed her over in XABC .

Kdub
KK
dram (oh ho you're better than reflex-FOSing someone who says he'd shoot himself Night 1, plus giving a little credence to Reck, plus you barely showing up compared with what I remember of your usual more prolific-ness)
Jack
The Stove (</3)

Both the top wagons are unappealing, Tans is a bit of trouble but my wagon mates are like bad beer, Guderian, um

Guderian, what do you think of Tans hypothesizing about one single scumfaction earlier in the game?

Nevermind, you were the one who was on both Tans and Kdub and voted Tans and your reasons on Kdub looked like you should've found them a hella lot more compelling, weren't you? I was wondering where this thing went.

regardless of what one of us flips in the event of a lynch

Rereading a little. The only reason I don't see this as a genuine slip is that I assume no experienced player would say this. But did you just insinuate you even have the possibility of not flipping town?

What is this 'I'm not accusing you of [obv illegitimate scumtell] but did you really just [commit obv illegitimate scumtell]? lol'?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Guderian

I am still frustrated at bad wagons, could go for Jack as well buuuuuut I've only ever danced with Guderian's bro, so, Conrad: Let's dance.

[Jack]

shades of : http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2414884

[Plum]

Uh huh, how so? Because I have had to do catchup posts many times in the past as both Town and scum I don't know exactly what you're referring to bothering you there, Jack.

[Jack]

Smells the same.

[Jack]

refute THAT

[Plum]

I'll pass. You smell like sweat, but probably mostly honest sweat at least.

[nopointinactingup]

Kay, I'm liking Plum. Gundaria is obviously bullshitting

Unvote.Vote:Gundaria

[Kdub]

Plum:
If you had other reasons for thinking tans wasn't scum after your revelation, you did not mention any of that when I asked you about it. This looks very much like a revisionist excuse. It is your response (468 and 471) as much as your initial inconsistency with your opinion of tans that I find suspicious.

With that said, post 801 strikes me as a pretty reasonable/genuine post.

---

Katsuki:

faking that you do not know how I play considering that you've both played with and modded over me before

You either misread or misinterpreted my post about my past history with you. I said your play here is different from what I've seen of both your town and scum play, which is why I initially found it strange. How is that "fake"? Are you claiming that your play here is similar to how you usually play as town and that I am lying about that? I would like to see some links to some of your past games as town where you feel you played in a similar manner. You have very much been wagon hopping and following other's votes with very little reasoning of your own. I asked you for your reasons for all of your scum suspects, not just me. For example, you are currently voting Starbuck for no apparent reason, even though you indicated early on that you didn't want to go for a lurker lynch. Why the change of heart? I'm not seeing any pro-town motivation for the way you have played up to this point.

---

More importantly, for some reason everyone seems to be assuming that there's all these magical traps against MCing, or that it won't work for whatever reason. What if the Mods actually said to themselves "So since we're telling them there's 4 of each colour, so we better make the Scum better than normal to compensate for the fact that the Town are obviously going to mass colourclaim, and so get an edge over a standard 1-4-4-16 game."

First of all, that's just as much a "what if" as the assumption that there is some trap against massclaiming. Second, my mod meta on Charlie tells me that it's not likely he would balance against massclaim in this way.

---

Other stuff:
KageLord's post 538 is pretty bad. He thinks the alignment-confirmed masons thing is real, then wants to lynch one of them? Even if you believed the claim was for real, do you not understand how such a claim would be suicide if it were a scum gambit?

I'm not caring too much for the Starbuck wagon. It feels like it's too easy - wagon someone for preferring scum, speculating about flavor, and before they have posted content to analyze. Giver her a chance to catch up first at least, then see what she has to say.

Funny how Andrius (753) said tans' wagon (me, Plum, Guderian) was "infested" with scum, then put just tans+Guderian on his scum list. Not quite sure what to make of that.

The Jack copy/paste thing is strange, but why does that make him more likely to be scum?

[Katsuki]

i will answer your stuff later this weekend will not have time tomorrow

i wonder has anyone here played with townkdub before because i have only played with scumkdub before and he is giving me the same feeling as he did the one time ive played with him

[Andrius]

Because the stuff you wrote in all caps is extemely dumb. Posting in all caps lowers your IQ apparently.

Its like a franternity. They do stupid shit and somehow are allowed to continue on, so they do.

KAT.
PYPGUD =/= BNGUD.
The former is town. The latter isn't. Act accordingly.

@ Stephoscope: I'm not questioning your vote, trust me.

Holy crud Plum massive-replied.

I disagree that people who enjoy third-party playing are more likely to also want to pick scum.

I see where you're coming from but still don't buy it. Meh. /preferences

His statement that by rebuttal of Kdub's arguments was

logical and correct but scummy sounds just very like Jack whatever alignment he is

Agree with this 100%.

Don't really see how this transferred straight into SpyreX though. Honestly, it has me confused but I'm too tired to try and divine why in the world you curve-balled on me.

I see your point behind SensFan and scumteam-talk. However I don't see it as being in his nature to wait for scumteam's approval for something. Someone more cautious, yes. SensFan? Maybe.

tannebaum isn't a bad pick for scum. Its a good pick. But there are better picks too.
GREAT. So the only thing preventing us from sawing SB's head off is Reck? /plots daykill that i don't have

Andrius: I read you as Town because I trust to your desire to play as a Townie when you say so.

You of all people know how horridly obv.scum I can be (and Katsuki too, but let's not drag that dummy into our happy little conversation).
There is nothing I want more than to play as Town (besides as Mason. Even with Katsu.)

On an unrelated note, I like playing/modding with you, too <3 (and I am getting stuff together for my next game . . . in a week or two, after midterms, I should be getting it together and finding a reviewer).

D'awww You sure know a way to my heart. lol
I actually just finished The Two Towers (Extended Ed.) with my best friend an hour ago.

GUDERIAN WAGON IS ALIVE AND WELL.
/debates leaving pseudo-mason buddies to join attractive Guderian wagon with Plum

Funny how Andrius (753) said tans' wagon (me, Plum, Guderian) was "infested" with scum, then put just tans+Guderian on his scum list. Not quite sure what to make of that.

You can have a wagon on scum (tannebaum) that is full of scum (Guderian and you). And Plum on the side.

[Vi]

Eh, don't bring up XABC. I played very badly as I distracted by something IRL that made mafia take a backseat.

Also, what's that logic again? I love being scum so much that I betrayed my scumpartners and tried for a third partyish WC?

Pretty much.

I hate being scum. And this is my second game back from a year-long absence from mafia. I picked town/town.

Excuse me if I don't take your word for it. Is there anything that supports this?

tanstalas-Christmas Tree refers to this latest nickname he's gotten. It's a joke.

---

Vi: No.

Yes. Maybe. I'd like to buy a vowel.

Regarding Day1 color claim, I'm skittish even though it doesn't look like we have anything to lose that we can put a finger on. Call me conservative, but . . . and yet I doubt that the punishment factor, assuming there is one, would be strong enough to screw us over and I doubt we'd be in much worse position compared to now. Oh dammit. I'm doubtful that there is a major major downside, maybe just say screw it and go for it. Or, better yet, ask about Vi's idea. Vi, you had an idea for an alternative to colors-claim?

The more I think about it, the more it wouldn't work. The idea was to have just one color claim and work with each color.

I'll freely admit the SensFan wagon has no small amount of social engineering involved. Unless he starts doing something vastly different from his play in this game and in past games, he's not going to be more than accidentally helpful. And more than anything I'd just as soon get to Night and let the people who have power over this game start trimming away the people who are scummy.

Re: tanstalas - I don't know anything about scum-tanstalas, but I suspect bad logic is a null-tell. I don't think he's worth getting upset over Today.

---

Reck, your alliance doesn't have the leading wagon. Your response?

[The Stove]

In iso, Gud seems to be nitpicking hardcore, trying to appear to make something out of nothing. A lot of his posts consist of attacking miniscule points, trying to blow them way out of proportion.

Zito and I are still (as of our last discussions) in agreement of the Starbuck needs to die movement, and I'm not keen on just buying into what Reck's selling.

Plum - Sorry I just caught this. 162 was one of the more coherent posts at that time, attacked some flawed logic and called out what looked like an attempt to maybe soften a blow in an attack by Tans with some facetious exchanges in the middle of a rather ridiculous accusation.

I'd be happy with a Gud, Sens, Starbuck or Kage wagon on the day. Zito agrees with at least some of these reads. I'd love to get on the Gud wagon, but not without the harmony of agreement that comes when Zito and I agree on something. Hopefully he pulls eye-to-eye with me here.

-AGar

[Toogeloo]

I may throw my vote down on Star, but I would like to clear the air surrounding the matter before I commit. Reck states that he knows Star is town, and Vi apparently caught on as to why. Is there any reason to keep this from the rest of us? I don't care if Reck says it or Vi says it, but Star's lynch is a very good possibility, and if information pertaining to the lynch is helpful in stirring in the right direction, it should be brought to the attention of everyone and not just a select few who have the possibility of coming back tomorrow with something like, "I told you she was town."

[Fate]

unvote: vote: sensfan

hey katsuki vi is callin it recks alliance how u fell bout that

i mean its sok my felins arent hurt

neway he said were not no the main wagon so i guess its time to make it the main again

[Jack]

I didn't like starbucks "post 5 times about how I can't post" schtick either.

[Vi]

I may throw my vote down on Star, but I would like to clear the air surrounding the matter before I commit. Reck states that he knows Star is town, and Vi apparently caught on as to why. Is there any reason to keep this from the rest of us? I don't care if Reck says it or Vi says it, but Star's lynch is a very good possibility, and if information pertaining to the lynch is helpful in stirring in the right direction, it should be brought to the attention of everyone and not just a select few who have the possibility of coming back tomorrow with something like, "I told you she was town."

So you're apparently reading Reck's posts but not mine?

(note that my answer is probably not reck's but good luck getting a straight answer out of him)

I'd answer whatever it was Fate said but all I read was "sheep sheep baa~ah".

[Toogeloo]

I may throw my vote down on Star, but I would like to clear the air surrounding the matter before I commit. Reck states that he knows Star is town, and Vi apparently caught on as to why. Is there any reason to keep this from the rest of us? I don't care if Reck says it or Vi says it, but Star's lynch is a very good possibility, and if information pertaining to the lynch is helpful in stirring in the right direction, it should be brought to the attention of everyone and not just a select few who have the possibility of coming back tomorrow with something like, "I told you she was town."

So you're apparently reading Reck's posts but not mine?

I'm reading your posts as well, one of which you responded with as:

Starbuck is town and voting her is a waste of time.

I decided to humor you and look for why you would say this.

...it's not great, but I don't know how good a scum strategist Starbuck is.

Unvote: Starbuck

If you mentioned something else in regards to understanding Reck's position on Star, I must have overlooked it however.

[SpyreX]

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote Count

SensFan [5] - AlmasterGM, xRECKONERx, Vi, Andrius, Fate

Guderian [4]

- Dekes, Stephoscope, Plum, nopointinactingup

Starbuck [4]

- Jack, The Stove, MagnaofIllusion, Katsuki

Katsuki [2]

- SensFan, tanstalas

tanstalas [2]

- Kdub, Guderian

xRECKONERx [2]

- KageLord, xvart

Andrius [1]

- Starbuck

Jack [1]

- SpyreX

MagnaofIllusion [1]

- dramonic

SpyreX [1]

- Kublai Khan

Not voting [2]

- Kast, Toogeloo

With 25 alive, it is 13 to lynch. Deadline is January 21, 2011.

[Fate]

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

[Fate]

vi uhh i dont really see how u think i can not be a sheep i mean if i was a leader it wouldnt be sexy kamina leader like im supposed to be but a former shell of y former glory and it just isnt woth sheeping thus i become the sheep

i let u in on a little secret htouhg i been holding becuse of shame

this whole time ive actually been using caps lock and shift to somewhat get the same feel when i type

but its not the same its just a double negative

i weep every time i post

[Vi]

Toogs: this

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

The reason is basically "lol, Jack".

[SpyreX]

Ohhhh in that case.

What kind of favors / delicious songs / kabuki would it take to swing those votes this thar way?

[Jack]

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

It was very pro town.