Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[Umbrage]

No, me did give me opinion: I was fer it at first, den I saw dat dere wasn't mooch o' a case fer it 'appenin'. chesskid3 was actin' more scummy den Nexus an' Shadow. I tought aboot it, an' decided it would prob'ly 'elp scum more den town. I's always been givin' me reasons fer tings.

'Ave you bin readin' da same game I'm readin'? I done nuthin' but talk aboot da mass claim since page 2!

No. You gave your opinion on the other players and used that to decide whether or not massclaim was a good thing. My argument is that you hadn't, until I pointed it out, argued what merits you saw in massclaim (in a contextless, generic way). Your opinion was always by proxy of how other people were acting and what their opinion was. It was impossible to trace what YOU thought was.

Bullshit. I've been debating the merits of the massclaim for ages now. Post 59. Post 64. Post 74. And so on. I didn't make any big long essay of why I thought it was a good or bad idea, sorry. I debated points with the other players as they were brought up.

Read da tread a'gain. 'E said dat I lost me town read after I attacked 'im. Dat's OMGUS. An' he only said null after I said t'was OMGUS.

I'm still having trouble seeing Umbrage scum though, even with all the misrep.
Would you, as scum, attack someone with an early townread on you?

^ OMGUS

?

That's the wrong quote, and I think you know it. +5 scum points go to you.

What? Am I not sa'post ta defend meself? What 'reaction' is scummy 'ere zactly?

You seemed hyperdefensive. The OMGUS was a good example of this - Chess still saw you as town when you accused him of it! And you've now started trying to smear other people instead of defending yourself when it became clear I wasn't letting it drop.

Heh. So, I'm overdefensive, and I'm not defending myself? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

You're sayin' I'm scummy fer findin' udder people's reactions scummy. Dis implies dat you tink Nexus 'n Shadow are town. Is dis true?

No, it doesn't automatically imply that. There's no reason a scummy person can't find legitimate scummy reactions, and on the other side of the coin, its too early to be giving out townreads.

So then what was scummy about my 'reactions'? You've got to have some sort of reason for voting me.

But in this specific example: you yourself now agree with the idea that Chess asking for a massclaim was a bad idea. If massclaim is a bad idea, why are you criticising these people for saying so immediately? I don't think it's helpful, but I don't think it's awful. I think peoples' reactions to massclaim as an idea are null.

Sigh... No, I think he never should have proposed an MC if he didn't have good reasoning for it. At the time Shadow and Nexus responded, they had no way of knowing whether he had a good reason for it or not. When I voted him, it was clear he didn't. That's a big difference.

Yarr.

*sips tea*

Anything else?

[Jedo the Jedi]

Get back in here and post.

I posted less than 24 hours ago. I can't help it if you guys have ranted three pages worth of stuff. I won't guarantee more than two or three posts per 24-hour period, and this will probably be my only one for the weekend.

Anyway,

vote: Umbrage

. I see Vox's point and in fact started to suspect Umbrage around the same time for similar reasons. chess is acting like I used to when I thought I had a good idea and no one would see the (usually bad) reasoning. That doesn't make him town or scum per se. However, what would normally happen if I was town is that a mafioso would be vocal against me, manipulating my stupidity and taking the white knight of superior reason, and would end up painting me in a bad light (more so than I already did myself) or get me lynched. I see the same trend here. So, since I for now assume chess is town, that makes me suspect Umbrage is scum. If that turns out wrong, I will look at chess.

chess, a mass claim is not a good idea on day 1 (and usually day 2) because it only helps the scum. I just did this argument in another game. The problem with mass claiming early of any kind is that it will only devolve into WIFOM arguments for town (because it's all just baseless information with town) and provide scum some info to manipulate and work with. If scum have more info, they can start to sift probable power roles, use the information to manipulate suspicion onto certain people, and generally confuse town more. Feel free to disagree, but try to keep a level-head about it.

*Addendum because Umbrage posted before I finished: I don't like that last post. Because I already suspect Umbrage, it looks like a scum in a corner. They have to spread blame out while they can. If it turns out Umbrage is town, that post will receive more attention. I stay with my vote.

[chesskid3]

if scum have fakeclaims
why so much objection to MC?

If scum have fakeclaims then best case scenario-it doesn't change anything and just wastes time, worst case scenario-Town claims an anti-town sounding name and gets lynched for it or it causes confusion.

I know PranaDevil's theme games. I've played them before. I know that names have no bearing on anything.

Elizabeth Swann was a traitor in the last game he ran. Generally, names make jack difference.

Avoiding my questions I see...

no my point was that if scum do have fakeclaims
there wouldn't be so much objection to MC. I don't think they do. We'll see postgame, though.

[chesskid3]

Umbrage is still probably town, since scum can't be this bad >_>
GREAT VIG SHOT THOUGH IF THERE SHOULD HAPPEN TO BE A VIG OUT THERE SOMEWHEREEEEE
OR AN SK WHO WANTS TO PRETEND TO BE A VIG )))

[AurorusVox]

Bullshit. I've been debating the merits of the massclaim for ages now. Post 59. Post 64. Post 74. And so on. I didn't make any big long essay of why I thought it was a good or bad idea, sorry. I debated points with the other players as they were brought up.

I accept #59 and #64 show you're debating it, which I had missed or forgotten about, but #74 highlights my point. You thought it was a bad idea, but your opinion was that you were FOR it because you didn't like Shadow and Nexus. It feels off to me.

That's the wrong quote, and I think you know it. +5 scum points go to you.

You can't just ignore the fact that he had a town read of you when you said he was OMGUS'ing. How can he be saying you're scum when he's saying, clearly, that he thinks you're town?

Heh. So, I'm overdefensive, and I'm not defending myself? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Sorry, I should be more clear. Hyperdefensive means your reactions are out of proportion to the accusations against you, i.e. you think someone is OMGUSing when they have a town read of you. A "hyperdefence," if I can coin that phrase, is not a good defence. It's a bad defence. And then instead of offering a good defence, you turned to smear.

So then what was scummy about my 'reactions'? You've got to have some sort of reason for voting me.

Your reactions are, as stated above, hyperdefensive and smearing.

Sigh... No, I think he never should have proposed an MC if he didn't have good reasoning for it. At the time Shadow and Nexus responded, they had no way of knowing whether he had a good reason for it or not. When I voted him, it was clear he didn't. That's a big difference.

Don't you think its possible people would know already whether they think there's a good reason for massclaim D1? If someone says "Hey, let's vote no vote until LYLO," I will know straight away that that I think its a bad idea. I don't need to hear the persons' reasoning for it before I say no. I get that your "No" and their "No" were different. But I think you're assuming that people start the game without any presuppositions about mafiatheory, which I don't think is true.

*sips tea*

Anything else?

Tea, eh? Aren't the "East Indian Trading Company" the baddies in Pirates of the Carribean? Hold on; yep, here we go: they represented a counterpoint to the themes of personal freedom represented by pirates and one of their major trades was in...DUN DUN DUNNN...tea!

SCUMSCUMSCUM!

Yarr!

[chesskid3]

Oh hmmmm
Umbrage awarding +5 scumpoints when he's never publically awarded scumpoints for actions he considers scummy (clearly I should have some)....therefore the +5 scumpoint was simply telling AV: BACK OFF OR YOU'RE NEXT
GODDAMNIT
MY BRAIN SAYS UMBRAGE SCUM
MY GUT STILL DOESN'T AGREEEEEEE

[Shadow1psc]

I have a PotC name fwiw. I'm catching up here and there so forgive me, but my activity level will resume as normal tomorrow afternoon

[Doombunny9]

Oh, I missed your question.

It's just distracting because it's harder to read. Much like typin lyk dis iz also distraktin bcuz it m8ks it hrder 2 understand wutz going on.

It does to me, anyway.

I can understand this but I still can't see how its scummy. I mean, I can type all of my posts in Spanish or something and while it may take time to translate it (This is assuming you don't speak Spanish. If you do then insert another language) it doesn't change the meaning of the post. Care to explain why you think typing in "pirate-speak" is scummy?

I'll be looking at Umbrage and chess more closely from now on.

[Liar]

Umbrage, could you provide me a game where you were mafia and a game where you were scum?

Thank you

[Umbrage]

Oh, wait! UNVOTE: chesskid3

Get back in here and post.

I posted less than 24 hours ago. I can't help it if you guys have ranted three pages worth of stuff. I won't guarantee more than two or three posts per 24-hour period, and this will probably be my only one for the weekend.

Anyway,

vote: Umbrage

. I see Vox's point and in fact started to suspect Umbrage around the same time for similar reasons. chess is acting like I used to when I thought I had a good idea and

no one would see the (usually bad) reasoning.

That doesn't make him town or scum per se. However, what would normally happen if I was town is that a mafioso would be vocal against me,

manipulating my stupidity

and taking the white knight of

superior reason

, and would end up painting me in a bad light (more so than I already did myself) or get me lynched. I see the same trend here. So,

since I for now assume chess is town, that makes me suspect Umbrage is scum.

If that turns out wrong, I will look at chess.

chess, a mass claim is not a good idea on day 1 (and usually day 2) because it only helps the scum. I just did this argument in another game. The problem with mass claiming early of any kind is that it will only devolve into WIFOM arguments for town (because it's all just baseless information with town) and provide scum some info to manipulate and work with. If scum have more info, they can start to sift probable power roles, use the information to manipulate suspicion onto certain people, and generally confuse town more. Feel free to disagree, but try to keep a level-head about it.

*Addendum because Umbrage posted before I finished: I don't like that last post.

Because I already suspect Umbrage

, it looks like a scum in a corner. They have to spread blame out while they can.

If it turns out Umbrage is town

, that post will receive more attention. I stay with my vote.

It's so nice when the scum reveal themselves like that. Thanks, Jedo!

VOTE: Jedo The Jedi

[Umbrage]

Umbrage, could you provide me a game where you were

mafia

and a game where you were

scum

?

Thank you

wat

[chesskid3]

hahahahahah after accusing me of omgus
hahahahahahahh
aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahah
fuck this

Unvote

Vote: umbrage

Goddamnit I don't care about my gut
this is not ok

[Umbrage]

Bullshit. I've been debating the merits of the massclaim for ages now. Post 59. Post 64. Post 74. And so on. I didn't make any big long essay of why I thought it was a good or bad idea, sorry. I debated points with the other players as they were brought up.

I accept #59 and #64 show you're debating it, which I had missed or forgotten about, but #74 highlights my point. You thought it was a bad idea, but your opinion was that you were FOR it because you didn't like Shadow and Nexus. It feels off to me.

Yes, I've always made it clear that the sole reason I supported an MC was because of the scummy reactions when it was proposed. I really don't see why that is scummy.

That's the wrong quote, and I think you know it. +5 scum points go to you.

You can't just ignore the fact that he had a town read of you when you said he was OMGUS'ing. How can he be saying you're scum when he's saying, clearly, that he thinks you're town?

Because he's trying to spread suspicion of me. His latest post is a great example of that. If I'm lynched, then he can say, "Oh my gut said he was town all along!".

Heh. So, I'm overdefensive, and I'm not defending myself? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Sorry, I should be more clear. Hyperdefensive means your reactions are out of proportion to the accusations against you, i.e. you think someone is OMGUSing when they have a town read of you. A "hyperdefence," if I can coin that phrase, is not a good defence. It's a bad defence. And then instead of offering a good defence, you turned to smear.

Besides the 'OMGUS' point, can you site any examples of hyperdefensiveness?

So then what was scummy about my 'reactions'? You've got to have some sort of reason for voting me.

Your reactions are, as stated above, hyperdefensive and smearing.

Please elaborate. Quotations would be nice.

Sigh... No, I think he never should have proposed an MC if he didn't have good reasoning for it. At the time Shadow and Nexus responded, they had no way of knowing whether he had a good reason for it or not. When I voted him, it was clear he didn't. That's a big difference.

Don't you think its possible people would know already whether they think there's a good reason for massclaim D1? If someone says "Hey, let's vote no vote until LYLO," I will know straight away that that I think its a bad idea. I don't need to hear the persons' reasoning for it before I say no. I get that your "No" and their "No" were different. But I think you're assuming that people start the game without any presuppositions about mafiatheory, which I don't think is true.

Sure, it's possible. But if it's so obviously a bad idea, then why didn't they just say why? Let's take your example. If someone said that, then my reaction would be something like: "the scum will eat us alive, why do you think that's a good idea?" instead of "no u suk".

*sips tea*

Anything else?

Tea, eh? Aren't the "East Indian Trading Company" the baddies in Pirates of the Carribean? Hold on; yep, here we go: they represented a counterpoint to the themes of personal freedom represented by pirates and one of their major trades was in...DUN DUN DUNNN...tea!

SCUMSCUMSCUM!

lol

Yarr!

[Umbrage]

hahahahahah after accusing me of omgus
hahahahahahahh
aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahah
fuck this

Unvote

Vote: umbrage

Goddamnit I don't care about my gut
this is not ok

Heh. You really don't see Jedo as scum? I thought it was pretty obvious.

[chesskid3]

................way to miss the point
you call me out on bullshit omgus
and then you 100% omgus

[chesskid3]

Jedo's vote on you can be seen as scummy for a reason, sure.
Hint: Not the reason(s) you gave.

[chesskid3]

DING DING DING
The actual answer:
Fence-sitting on Umbrage/Chesskid. He appears to take the stance that one of us is scum, without actually taking this stance.
Goes for the easier target, while leaving the door open for an attack on the other person post-mislynch.
That's what was scummy
not
omg he voted for me
omgusomgusomgusscumscumscum

[Umbrage]

DING DING DING
The actual answer:
Fence-sitting on Umbrage/Chesskid. He appears to take the stance that one of us is scum, without actually taking this stance.
Goes for the easier target, while leaving the door open for an attack on the other person post-mislynch.
That's what was scummy
not
omg he voted for me
omgusomgusomgusscumscumscum

Better. That's one of the things wrong with his post. Also wrong:

1) He goes for the bandwagon that looks to have the most potential right now.
2) He begins to set up tomorrow's lynch (you) when I flip town.
3) He defends you, yet also says that you have bad reasoning.
4) He admits that one of his points against me only exists because he saw me as scummy in the first place, aka he is finding mud to sling at me after he learns I'm the good wagon.
5) He makes precautions against my town flip, because he knows it's going to happen.

So, before you scream 'OMGUS', look at the post in question. I NEVER vote without some damn good reasoning.

[chesskid3]

oh what is this, looking for reasoning before screaming OMGUS?
WELL I NEVER

[JoanBud]

Arrrrrrr!

Time to get crackin'.

My primary two focuses are Nexus and chesskid3--Nexus for his wishy-washy patterns in the RVS and chesskid for seemingly rolefishing and his questionable retaliation to the spotlight. The suspicion on Nexus starts in post #25, voting seriously with nonsense support. Posts #27 and #31 then bend to Shadow1psc's pressure, and he starts to show the need to please the crowd. Shadow stops his pressure (for whatever reason) and Nexus slides on primarily unnoticed until post #82, which he never responded to. That and his lack of response to post #111 (or as #122 says, his "[missing] it") shows that Nexus is hardly even skimming the posts in an attempt to find scum. He's just getting by without giving us any effort.

I'll address chesskid3 in my next post. For now, Nexus, I hope that you'll give me a response.

[chesskid3]

Mass NAMEclaim != Rolefishing
I recommend you play buzzword bingo
it's a fun game
you'd be really good at it

[chesskid3]

also Joan way to contribute like, original FoSes or anything there
not like everything falls inside Nexus/Umbrage/CK or anything
wheeeeeeee

[Umbrage]

Players who need to post some content:

Shadow
Nero Cain
smargaret
Internet Stranger

NOW

And chesskid3, do you have to criticize EVERYONE who find you scummy?

[chesskid3]

Considering I'm fairly obvtown, I'd say yes

[AurorusVox]

wat

He obv. typo'd town and scum. Any reason you're not doing it, though?

I don't have time to discuss our wall-trades. I be packin for moving tomorrow. Consider this a statement of intent.

Yarr.