Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[Jedo the Jedi]

In pieces then...

This could take a while. I will do the best I can to be systematic. I'll start with defending myself from misinterpretation, then I will move on to why I still view Umbrage as scummy.

The actual answer:
Fence-sitting on Umbrage/Chesskid. He appears to take the stance that one of us is scum, without actually taking this stance.
Goes for the easier target, while leaving the door open for an attack on the other person post-mislynch.
That's what was scummy

First of all, I draw a parallel to my early days of playing mafia and being in a similar chess/Umbrage situation. I would just throw ideas out there as I saw them, and someone else would pound on the reasoning and claim I was scum because of bad reasoning. Why bad reasoning automatically signifies scum and not just a poor reasoner I'll never know, but in these cases it's because the scum could make me an easy target that way while not drawing attention to themselves. Seeing a similar situation here, I suspected Umbrage as scum (no backing down) and said chesskid is likely town. The problem with saying definitively that chess is town is 1) I can only base my suspicions on circumstantial evidence from posts and nothing concrete (Incidentally, my suspicions about Umbrage also can only amount to so much because they only come from the posts, but you have to go on something for day 1.), 2) if Umbrage turns out to be innocent, then chess could be a martyred scum, 3) if Umbrage turns out to be scum, then chess could be his buddy who now makes him look innocent. These last two would require investigating chess outside of his Umbrage/mass claim argument. I could not use the same situation to also suspect chess. That definitely would be scummy. Therefore, I believe chess is town right now and Umbrage is scum, but it's also based on what I read. That could change with the lynch today and some night info. I don't think that is any different than anybody else's suspicions.

Better. That's one of the things wrong with his post. Also wrong:

1) He goes for the bandwagon that looks to have the most potential right now.
2) He begins to set up tomorrow's lynch (you) when I flip town.
3) He defends you, yet also says that you have bad reasoning.
4) He admits that one of his points against me only exists because he saw me as scummy in the first place, aka he is finding mud to sling at me after he learns I'm the good wagon.
5) He makes precautions against my town flip, because he knows it's going to happen.

So, before you scream 'OMGUS', look at the post in question. I NEVER vote without some damn good reasoning.

In order...

1) I was the third vote with my own reasoning. Nexus had his reasoning (which I don't think was stellar), and Vox had his reasoning (which I state is understandable). How exactly is that a bandwagon? How is it the one with the most potential when from my experience (note the parallel situation) chess is the one the town is likely to lynch because of his bad reasoning?
2) I explained this one just above. I believe chess is town at present, but that could easily be overthrown with more evidence.
3) I defend him because I don't think bad reasoning should be an automatic scum tell. It can certainly trip scum up sometimes, but the fact is that not everybody is trained or experienced in rhetoric and logic. That's why I defend him. He can still have bad reasoning.
4) I don't quite understand this one. I don't think I made a point based on a preconceived notion. (I know there is a latin phrase for that.) Please point it out more specifically. Again, I don't see why you are the "good wagon" much less any wagon at all as I've already pointed out.
5) Again, I think I've been over this. You could definitely flip town. If this is a normal setup, the odds are in your favor for flipping town. Since all I have to go on are your posts (just like everybody else), I could easily be wrong. You are the most scummy person I see based on posts, so I'm voting for you. I believe that's how this game works.

And I'm sure you mean you never vote

seriously

without some damn good reasoning. Don't make me cite those first few votes.

*Addendum (new info before I post this monster):

I still like my Jedo vote, his post and disappearance was the single scummiest event in the game so far, although Joan is going for his record.

Are you reading challenged? I've said why I haven't been here much. I still think I've contributed more in my few posts than you and chess in your pages of posts combined.

**Addendum 2: You changed your vote again?! For the love of Pete...

[Jedo the Jedi]

Now for my case against Umbrage (in detail since the previous reason wasn't good enough).

Ignoring the first day, first page joking, we find ourselves at the Nexus vote. Nexus votes for Umbrage because he thinks a third random vote is distracting/not helpful to the game and is therefore scummy. (This is after he accidentally votes for Vox for the same reason, then corrects his mistake.) Like I said before, I think it's pretty flimsy, but if he thinks it's scummy, that's up to him. Umbrage then OMGUS votes Nexus. (Deny it, I dare you.) Then, chess suggests the mass name-claim. Nexus and Shadow both say no (their reasons are their own, but generally they believe it isn't helpful to the town). We then have this nugget which will become hotly debated:

I be fer a name claim jus coz Nexus 'n Shadow are so against it. But me not picky.

This is bad reasoning to support something. Later, you will even post this nugget:

I knows why I wants it, I's jus' wond'rin why you want it so much.

followed shortly by

I's wouldn't be fer it at all 'cept fer Shadow 'n Nexus not likin' it.

You reiterate that this is your reason for supporting something over which you are arguing with chess. It's a bad idea, but since the "scum who are against it for no reason" are opposed you might as well be for it. After all, you say only a few posts later why you think it's a bad idea.

See, I's tinks it'll be more 'elpful to da scum, dan da town. While we're WIFOMin' as ta whether da names mean anytin, da scum'll go fer who looks ta be a PR.

Excuse me? I know Vox harps on this whole bit later, so I'll leave it here (God knows I have enough other stuff from Umbrage to address). The least I will say that it's all very shifty.

Vote: Nexus

because random voting and talking in an accent are scummy

Also, I'm against a nameclaim since it won't help town out all that much since scum were probably either given fakeclaims or roles that don't necessarily that their scum. Its probably just going to confuse town more than help it.

I's da one dats bin talkin in de accent!

Dis post is lookin mighty suspishus ta me! 'Ow 'ould ye know dat de scum were given der fakeclaims?

He didn't say he knows. He's speculating. Clearly there are enough mods that give fake claims that it is worth suspecting. Postulating makes someone suspicious? We're all in trouble then.

As much as I would like to call you scum for this idiotic line of questioning, you just got a townread too :/
fml

unvote
Vote: IS

An' sorry fer triple postin', boot dis 'ere is not a good post. Tis a scummy one.

First ye say I's town fer no good reason. Den you say you'd LIKES to say Liar's scum (why?), but youse has a town read on 'im too? Ye can say later dat ye always tought he was scum if he gets a wagon. I smells a scum wantin' ta back out of a tight spot.

UNVOTE: Nexus

VOTE: chesskid3

Not four of your posts before you said Nexus was scum. If you were so sure of that, why are you already switching your vote? If you know a scum, you should stick with them until other people vote for them or another person you suspect starts to get votes. The goal of this game is to

lynch

scum, not throw your vote on them for a few posts then move it to another person. If you keep doing that (which you thankfully do reign in a little bit), you will eventually have fingered most of the people in the game and be able to say later, "I told you he was scum!" in order to gain credibility.

ok
how about
fictional/non-fictional/what age of piracy your pirate is from claim?
I want to narrow down fakeclaims
without giving any real information to scum

Jus' a while ago youse was sayin' dat da scum 'ould prob'ly 'ave fakeclaims already! So it don't matter what age 'o piracy it's from! You is joost tryin' ta lead us on a wild goose chase!

He never said scum would probably have fake claims. chess brings this to your attention, and you acknowledge the mistake with a wave of your hand as you brush it away. Nothing can tarnish your goodness.

Fer de record, as far as fourth page reads go, me tinks chesskid3 is scum.

1) He pushes de mass name claim wit no good reason. Scum makin' up fake claims we can't prove are fake claims is not a good reason to be a'claimin.
2) He calls me town 'cause I agreed wit him. Not good logic dere.
3) He says dat he'd like ta say NC[

sic

] is scum 'cause he didn't agree wit 'im. There's no udder reason he gives for dat.
4) He won't answer NC's questions.
5) He lets the MC issue drop witout mooch complaint. Dis is scummy 'cause it shows he don't care mooch aboot it.

I was only fer de mass claim 'cause I was suspicious o' Shadow 'n MC[

sic

] actin' like dey did. But now, chess is way worse den dem.

1) I answered the first with my own argument above. (Hounding on bad reasoning to make someone scum...yadda, yadda.)
2) He said he had a town read on you, not because you agreed with him. Yeah, it isn't the greatest logic, but he still doesn't have much better to go on than all the things you are calling people scum for.
3) This is all wrong. He thought LIAR was being belligerent, but he had a town read on him (like you). Sometimes people do act scummy even if they aren't. chess thinks so here. It's not far-fetched, nor does it make chess scum.
4) He responds to this, and you basically roll it into...
5) this one! Sometimes, when you argue until you are blue in the face, you run out of air and can't continue. Sometimes, you see reason. Sometimes, you realize nobody is going to listen to you anyway so you just give up and move on. This does not make someone scum.

You have sooo many more posts I could do this to, but I really don't have the energy to continue and this post is already too long. Besides, I think this is enough to explain why I think you're scum. You are jumping around just as much as the other people whom you accuse of being scum for jumping around and leaving doors open. You find mud to sling at people through misrepresenting their position (which is what you accused me of). You brush aside your mistakes with a careless ease so as to continue appearing good. (And you somehow side-stepped Vox's attack. I still don't see how that worked.)

[Umbrage]

Umbrage: What "policy" do you want to use to lynch IS exactly?

The "I don't want to play with offensive players" policy.

In my opinion, there's a flaw with Liar's activity rating system: a lot of players were active for a while, then started lurking.

I'd organize them like this:

Consistently active:

Liar
Umbrage
chesskid3
AurorusVox
Doombunny9
smargaret

Declining activity:

Nexus
Shadow1psc
Nero Cain

Rare activity:

JoanBud
Jedo the Jedi
Internet Stranger

At the beginning of the game, Nexus, Shadow, and NC were major players. However, they seem to have vanished or stopped caring. It's hard to give a set value for their activity. Joan and Jedo haven't done anything. There's a big difference there.

@ IS: Stop saying 'retard'. It's offensive, lower class, and makes you look really bad.

[Umbrage]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I still don't know why I'm a "lurker" or have "rare activity." I said I'm not active on the weekends, and the game started a little less than 24 hours before that.

Thanks for the credit, Umbrage.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I suppose I should also respond to the Nexus query. I personally don't see him as that scummy. His initial votes were strange, but in itself that doesn't scream scum. If there were significant other things, it could be a lynch pin though.

[AurorusVox]

Umbrage: Jeez. Don't say Jedo has posted nothing then reprimand him for his posts.

[Shadow1psc]

Ok, there was a lot to catch up on, both in this topic and at work. Just finished page 8, but I really don't know what to think tbh. CK was just front and center for so long going "LOOK AT MEEEEE" that I got tired of him tbh, flailing his arms around in caps and bolds and emotions. He seems over-zealous, and slow to concede a point (the MC idea was downright stupid for soooo many reasons presented already). Umbrage's play intrigues me. Nexus seems a bit lurky. I may need to read the last couple pages closer. More to come.

[chesskid3]

I will bet you money scum don't have fakeclaims
based on reactions to my suggestion


yeah i figured it was gonna get rejected
but not this hard

[Umbrage]

Umbrage then OMGUS votes Nexus. (Deny it, I dare you.)

Gladly. 1) My vote was made before Nexus realized her mistake and voted me. 2) As far as I'm concerned, it was still RVS.

Blah blah blah massclaim, blah blah blah shiftiness.

You're pretty much copying AV's case now. Read my response(s) to him.

He didn't say he knows. He's speculating. Clearly there are enough mods that give fake claims that it is worth suspecting. Postulating makes someone suspicious? We're all in trouble then.

That post in question implied scum knowledge, at least to me. He wasn't saying "what if the scum have fakeclaims?", he was saying "the scum probably have fakeclaims, so there's no point in a massclaim". There's a big difference.

Not four of your posts before you said Nexus was scum. If you were so sure of that, why are you already switching your vote? If you know a scum, you should stick with them until other people vote for them or another person you suspect starts to get votes. The goal of this game is to lynch scum, not throw your vote on them for a few posts then move it to another person. If you keep doing that (which you thankfully do reign in a little bit), you will eventually have fingered most of the people in the game and be able to say later, "I told you he was scum!" in order to gain credibility.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or groan at this. First of all, people change votes. It happens. It doesn't mean that they don't still suspect the old person. Secondly, I do NOT know that Nexus is scum. I do NOT know that chesskid3 is scum. I notice some people look scummy, and then I make my best guesses. I don't 'know' any scum. That's just silly.

He never said scum would probably have fake claims. chess brings this to your attention, and you acknowledge the mistake with a wave of your hand as you brush it away. Nothing can tarnish your goodness.

Yes, I made a mistake. I admitted the mistake. What else do you expect from me?

I answered the first with my own argument above. (Hounding on bad reasoning to make someone scum...yadda, yadda.)

Not everyone has to be a logical genius to play. If chesskid3 had pushed flawed reasoning, that would be null. But he pushed contradictory reasoning. I still don't know what he attempted to achieve with an MC.

He said he had a town read on you, not because you agreed with him.

When I agreed with him, he had a town read on me. When I attacked him, he got a scum/null read. Correlation may not imply causation, but it's still a pretty big coincidence.

This is all wrong. He thought LIAR was being belligerent, but he had a town read on him (like you).

I corrected that typo later on.

Sometimes people do act scummy even if they aren't. chess thinks so here. It's not far-fetched, nor does it make chess scum.

How do you know what chess was thinking?

Sometimes, you see reason. Sometimes, you realize nobody is going to listen to you anyway so you just give up and move on. This does not make someone scum.

I still feel he let it drop rather quickly and under pressure. If you disagree, fine.

1) I was the third vote with my own reasoning. Nexus had his reasoning (which I don't think was stellar), and Vox had his reasoning (which I state is understandable). How exactly is that a bandwagon? How is it the one with the most potential when from my experience (note the parallel situation) chess is the one the town is likely to lynch because of his bad reasoning?
2) I explained this one just above. I believe chess is town at present, but that could easily be overthrown with more evidence.
3) I defend him because I don't think bad reasoning should be an automatic scum tell. It can certainly trip scum up sometimes, but the fact is that not everybody is trained or experienced in rhetoric and logic. That's why I defend him. He can still have bad reasoning.
4) I don't quite understand this one. I don't think I made a point based on a preconceived notion. (I know there is a latin phrase for that.) Please point it out more specifically. Again, I don't see why you are the "good wagon" much less any wagon at all as I've already pointed out.
5) Again, I think I've been over this. You could definitely flip town. If this is a normal setup, the odds are in your favor for flipping town. Since all I have to go on are your posts (just like everybody else), I could easily be wrong. You are the most scummy person I see based on posts, so I'm voting for you. I believe that's how this game works.

1) AV had just begun his case on me, and chesskid3 was leaning towards my being scum. I was the prime wagon, regardless of any reasoning.
2) But you were operating under the assumption that either chesskid3 or myself was scum. Meaning that if I'm lynched today, you can say "oh well it must be chess" and lynch him.
3) I see your argument now. chesskid3 strikes you more as struggling town than scum. I disagree, but you make a valid point.
4) Near the end you said "because I already suspect Umbrage..." which means that you find points against me because you suspect me, which is flawed logic. This fits in nicely with my being the wagon of choice: as scum, it would be good for you to say I'm scum, therefore you want a case to say I'm scum, therefore you dig up a case while working under the assumption I'm scum.
5) You speak of lynching me, but you don't seem that convinced I'm scum. You really look like you're trying to CYA.

@ AV: Sorry, that was just supposed to be a joke. Everyone does wall o' texts at some point.

[Shadow1psc]

I will bet you money scum don't have fakeclaims
based on reactions to my suggestion


yeah i figured it was gonna get rejected
but not this hard

Why are you

still

going on about this?

UNVOTE: The Rum ; ;
VOTE: ChessKid

Do some scum hunting, I don't care if this were to even turn into a PL against you.

[chesskid3]

Direct response to something you said, jackass.

[Shadow1psc]

Ugh, this whole mess with ChessKid throughout the entire topic is unenjoyable. It didn't even do a good job of bringing anyone else out, and is a whole big pile of suckfest. I keep trying to read his posts and find my eyes glazing over. Anyway, sorry for the inactivity, but it was a real chore reading CK and Umbrage go 'round. My activity resumes thusly, I honestly figured there'd be more to say but... there ain't.

[Shadow1psc]

Direct response to something you said, jackass.

Sure, the second half of your post. The first, I guess you'd call that a sentence, or fail haiku, was just more whining.

[chesskid3]

Also a nice look through your ISO makes me go
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
at you suggesting that someone scumhunt
when your ISO contains
*gasp*
0 scumhunting, and like 5 mentions of how you have no time to post

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote; Shadow

this is a far superior PL



/inb4 Umbrage goes lol omgus

[Shadow1psc]

I'll do it for him; lol OMGUS and trying to throw suspicion on me for not being around on the *gasp* weekend. I'm sorry I had to wade through so much of your junk to come to my conclusion that you're useless, if not scum.

[chesskid3]

I have a PotC name fwiw. I'm catching up here and there so forgive me, but my activity level will resume as normal tomorrow afternoon

Sorry for the inactivity. I am reading, im just not able to post much. Normal (lots of) activity tomorrow morning. I play the most when at work during the week

I apologize for the low activity. I'm most active during weekdays, and weekends are a tossup depending on the Mrs.' schedule. I do have an iPhone, so I tend to skim the games I'm playing in, and try to post at least once a day just to remind people that I am alive and reading, but my biggest contributions will certainly come Monday mornings, and throughout the week until Friday-ish, wherein activity from me will die down again, because I tend to have busy weekends.

I'll have a lot more to say tomorrow morning, I need to sleep so I can get to work and play >.>!

Yar.

3 in a row about how you don't have time to say anything.
Seriously?

[Shadow1psc]

Yes. I like to make sure it's known that, while I have a life, I do tend to skim on my phone, and I don't want to be replaced out. I like how you left out the time stamps.

[chesskid3]

It's artificially inflating your presence in the thread.
You aren't saying anything, so just say V/LA on weekends and don't post then.
Don't post a whole bunch of times about how you don't have time to say anything.

[Liar]

You are jumping around just as much as the other people whom you accuse of being scum for jumping around and leaving doors open. You find mud to sling at people through misrepresenting their position (which is what you accused me of). You brush aside your mistakes with a careless ease so as to continue appearing good. (And you somehow side-stepped Vox's attack. I still don't see how that worked.)

Can you elaborate on Umbrage's mistakes?

[Shadow1psc]

Because once (twice on sunday, gasp!) a day is artificially inflating my presence. It's so people don't go "hey, why does Shadow keep disappearing?" It's a courtesy, get over it. Certainly not a scum tell.

[Shadow1psc]

It's artificially inflating your presence in the thread.
You aren't saying anything, so just say V/LA on weekends and don't post then.
Don't post a whole bunch of times about how you don't have time to say anything.

And if anything, you're artifically creating more discussion than anyone in this thread. lolmassclaimday1, then arguing about it for 9 pages.

[chesskid3]

Couple it with pushing a PL for "no content" when you

actually

have no content, uh it doesn't help

[Shadow1psc]

There's a difference between posting a lot and saying nothing, and just not being able to post.