Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[Shadow1psc]

What is, WIFOMmobile Alec?

Seriously, there's not enough content in the game to judge right now what will happen if/when you flip potentially weeks from now. I'm not an advocate of the speed lynch, and hell, you've replied enough for me to know I've gotten all I'm going to get out of you, just off of my vote, so yeah. Now, if you'll excuse me, there are other players in the game.

[chesskid3]

Now, if you'll excuse me, there are other players in the game who Ive barely mentioned, I agree.
FTFY

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote; Smargret

Hi.

[smargaret]

Okay, let's just assume for a moment that you're town. What you've done is produced MORE WIFOM after all the stuff in pages 4-8. How does this help town?

What it sounds like is that you're scum trying to figure out who to push to a mislynch. Say Shadow says I'm his number 2 scumspect (which is what I think you're trying to ask?) - then you'll know who to go after to get support, or if he's found one of your buddies. I just don't see a pro-town motivation for that question.

In fact, since voting for someone who isn't around doesn't do any good,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chesskid

EBWOP: Not OMGUS, since chess voted while I was typing.

[chesskid3]

Okay, let's just assume for a moment that you're town. What you've done is produced MORE WIFOM after all the stuff in pages 4-8. How does this help town?

What it sounds like is that you're scum trying to figure out who to push to a mislynch. Say Shadow says I'm his number 2 scumspect (which is what I think you're trying to ask?) - then you'll know who to go after to get support, or if he's found one of your buddies. I just don't see a pro-town motivation for that question.

In fact, since voting for someone who isn't around doesn't do any good,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chesskid

EBWOP: Not OMGUS, since chess voted while I was typing.

not it at all, actually.
I found Shadows assertion that Me and Umbrage were scumreads #1 and #2 (paraprhasing/reading into what he said, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). This greatly surprised me, and I investigated.

Why is voting someone who is not here not useful? How does one motivate lurkers besides pressure? Why are pages 4-8 wifom?

[AurorusVox]

I can't help but feel Chess is an easy target. Smargaret's vote is worse than Shadow's because Smargarat implies his previous vote was a good one. The only reason he's shifting it onto Chess is because his other suspect disappeared. When he comes back, I bet he'd have left it on Chess (who's just going to keep accruing more voters as the day goes on) if I hadn't mentioned this. Smargaret, clarify: is the vote for Chess' question, or is it a placeholder until your other suspect comes back? Do you think unvoting players when they disappear is setting a good precedent for scum in the future?

Chess, why ask a hyposcum flip on your part? If you're town, we're not going to be able to check what he says here against a townflip because his read would change based on your flip. I don't think it's a very good question so I don't think shadow is wrong for not answering it in those terms.

[chesskid3]

Presumably someone will remember his answer/examine his reaction?

[Umbrage]

chesskid3 + Shadow1psc = scum distancing

That is all.

[chesskid3]

chesskid3 + Shadow1psc = scum distancing

That is all.

Oh confirmation bias, how I love thee

[Shadow1psc]

AV - to be fair, I wouldn't have thought of that logic. Mine was based on the fact that all of CK's interactions thusfar are "Rawrawrawr listen to me, these are my tortillas!", and that by the time he does flip (assuming he is ld1) there will potentailly (hopefully) be enough to actually answer that question, but as of now, especially given my assertions and vote, I don't nearly have enough information to answer his question sufficiently. Suffice it to say, even if I've pegged him dead on, finding his buddy would probably be a task independant of judging peoples' actions with CK.

[Shadow1psc]

chesskid3 + Shadow1psc = scum distancing

That is all.

lolwut.gif

Hi Umbrage. Yar.

[chesskid3]

Then don't even base it on my flip

new question
suppose CK is a tree stump for D1 only
who do you vote?

[Shadow1psc]

ChessKid, you make me sad in the pants.

[chesskid3]

Am I correct in assuming that Umbrage is your second suspect?
Because when you listed people
you were like
CK is hugely scummy
umbrage is midly scummy
and you have your eye on nexus and someone else
and you like AV and IS
and no mention of the other 5

[Internet Stranger]

Yea, yea, the weekend excuse. I start calling out Shadow, so... he goes after Chess? Why?
Chess is an idiot. Chess is of questionable mental capacity. Does that make Chess scum? Not yet.

That vote by Margaret is TERRIBLE. Is it scummy? Not yet.

I still like my Shadow vote. Im calling him out on scummytude. Im all for a pressure wagon on him.

[chesskid3]

Shadow is not below the radar
smargret is
pressure wagon on smargret is better

[smargaret]

I was voting Nexus, who is on declared v/la, which is different from lurking - voting a lurker would be voting Joanbud. And maybe WIFOM isn't the best term for it, but the fact is, pages 4-8 were cluttered with the back and forth between you and umbrage that didn't advance the game at all. That's scummy. The WIFOM comes from the "If I flip scum" line - either you're scum or you have no business posting a sentence that begins that way.

EBWOP: Vox, I'm still suspicious of Nexus. He hasn't answered my questions. He's also v/la and will not answer my questions, no matter whether my vote is on him or not. However, I've gradually become more suspicious of Chess. At the moment, they're both at around a 7-8 with 10 being guilty from a confirmed-sane cop. Why shouldn't I vote for the one who's around to react?

As I said before, there's a difference between disappearing/lurking (I'm looking at you, joanbud) and going v/la. And depending on whether and how Nexus answers my questions when he gets back and what chess does in the meantime, I may revote Nexus and I may decide to stay on chess. Who, by the way, is still asking distracting questions and not scumhunting. Also, take a look at my gender kthx.

[Shadow1psc]

Yea, yea, the weekend excuse. I start calling out Shadow, so... he goes after Chess? Why?
Chess is an idiot. Chess is of questionable mental capacity. Does that make Chess scum? Not yet.

That vote by Margaret is TERRIBLE. Is it scummy? Not yet.

I still like my Shadow vote. Im calling him out on scummytude. Im all for a pressure wagon on him.

Hi, IS. We haven't met yet, yar. Is there anything in particularrrr ye find scummy about me, besides the weekend inactivity? I don't like the VI stance as a whole, because it often is anti-town, which is either directly against your win condition as town, or you're actually scum.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Gladly. 1) My vote was made before Nexus realized her mistake and voted me. 2) As far as I'm concerned, it was still RVS.

Really? He had already stated his reasoning for the vote, he just got it on the wrong person. It was only a matter of time before he voted you. Good cover to get your vote in there

as he was typing his

.

You're pretty much copying AV's case now. Read my response(s) to him.

I did read them. They were bad. For example:

@ Aurorus Vox:

Are you voting for me simply because I based my support for a mass claim on the reactions of other players?

That's just stupid.

The entire point of an early mass claim is to catch scum off guard.

You then proceeded to misquote them and ignore the reasons they gave, followed with asking a rhetorical question about their scumminess. Show me where you out-logic him.

While I'm here, Liar, I gave one example in my post, but here is another:

Umbrage: I am voting you because you don't want to give an opinion about massclaim at a relatively early point in the game, which looks to be hyperdefensive.

No, me did give me opinion: I was fer it at first, den I saw dat dere wasn't mooch o' a case fer it 'appenin'. chesskid3 was actin' more scummy den Nexus an' Shadow. I tought aboot it, an' decided it would prob'ly 'elp scum more den town. I's always been givin' me reasons fer tings.

He dropped being for the mass claim as quickly as chess did, after being for it for a poor reason in the first place. He still hasn't owned up to that one.

That post in question implied scum knowledge, at least to me. He wasn't saying "what if the scum have fakeclaims?", he was saying "the scum probably have fakeclaims, so there's no point in a massclaim". There's a big difference.

Actually, there was an

or

in there. He was saying that if scum claim it won't be obvious by their name that they are town or scum. For instance, somebody said Elizabeth Swann was scum in a game, but that doesn't mean she will be scum in every game. There's a big difference.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or groan at this. First of all, people change votes. It happens. It doesn't mean that they don't still suspect the old person. Secondly, I do NOT know that Nexus is scum. I do NOT know that chesskid3 is scum. I notice some people look scummy, and then I make my best guesses. I don't 'know' any scum. That's just silly.

I know people change their votes, but just jumping from person to person at every new scum tell doesn't help. Pressure is never applied to the suspicious person that way. If you had actually read what I said you would realize that. Also, if you don't KNOW who is scum, then why do you keep calling people "scum" using that exact term?

Yes, I made a mistake. I admitted the mistake. What else do you expect from me?

There's a difference between what you did and what Vox did. Maybe you can compare.

Not everyone has to be a logical genius to play. If chesskid3 had pushed flawed reasoning, that would be null. But he pushed contradictory reasoning. I still don't know what he attempted to achieve with an MC.

Contradictory reasoning is an example of flawed reasoning. I don't see why one makes him more scummy than the other.

When I agreed with him, he had a town read on me. When I attacked him, he got a scum/null read. Correlation may not imply causation, but it's still a pretty big coincidence.

This is a good example of you being evasive. The post in question was a summation of why you thought chess was scum. You deliberately misrepresented him and his logic. That is scummy.

I corrected that typo later on.

I accidentally emphasized the wrong point. (I hadn't paid attention to the fact that Liar is not in all-caps.) The point is that Liar was acting in a way that could be viewed as scummy, but he still believed he was town.

How do you know what chess was thinking?

It's called inference.

1) AV had just begun his case on me, and chesskid3 was leaning towards my being scum. I was the prime wagon, regardless of any reasoning.

You had just started to make scummy posts. I can't help it that Vox and I saw it at the same time. chess was not leaning toward you being scum. He kept insisting you were town, and you were aggravating him toward voting you regardless of what he thought.

2) But you were operating under the assumption that either chesskid3 or myself was scum. Meaning that if I'm lynched today, you can say "oh well it must be chess" and lynch him.

No, I was operating under the assumption that you were scum. chess was probably the townie who was unfortunately employing bad reasoning which brought him under fire. If I don't reevaluate that later in light of further evidence, I would be doing the town a disservice.

3) I see your argument now. chesskid3 strikes you more as struggling town than scum. I disagree, but you make a valid point.

Thank you.

4) Near the end you said "because I already suspect Umbrage..." which means that you find points against me because you suspect me, which is flawed logic. This fits in nicely with my being the wagon of choice: as scum, it would be good for you to say I'm scum, therefore you want a case to say I'm scum, therefore you dig up a case while working under the assumption I'm scum.

It was an addendum in which I was saying, "I've already said all of this stuff, I think this newest post only makes it worse." What you accuse me of would be flawed logic, but that's not what I was doing.

5) You speak of lynching me, but you don't seem that convinced I'm scum. You really look like you're trying to CYA.

I'm as convinced as I can be with only posts to go on. Also, I'm getting really tired of all these acronyms. Does it take that much to just type it out? (Meaning: what is CYA?)

[smargaret]

cover your ass.

[Internet Stranger]

blah blah, whatever Shadow. The fact remains that Chess just has an IQ of a peanut; He is not necessarily scum. You and Margaret are clearly taking advantage of him and trapping him with bullshit. Yes, he asked a retarded question because you were being deliberately obtuse with him.

Youre doing one of those defenses where you just go after the weakest person in order to kill him off and save your hide. Which works great in a kung fu movie, but its too easy to see in this format.

I realize that this game is in TurboPost mode, so its easy to hide for a while then pop up when its convenient. I assume that means that Bunny and Cain will suddenly pop up soon to jump on Chess as well.

[Jedo the Jedi]

The fact remains that Chess just has an IQ of a peanut; He is not necessarily scum. You and Margaret are clearly taking advantage of him and trapping him with bullshit. Yes, he asked a retarded question because you were being deliberately obtuse with him.

This is the same thing I was describing between Umbrage and chess.

[Shadow1psc]

blah blah, whatever Shadow. The fact remains that Chess just has an IQ of a peanut; He is not necessarily scum. You and Margaret are clearly taking advantage of him and trapping him with bullshit. Yes, he asked a retarded question because you were being deliberately obtuse with him.

Youre doing one of those defenses where you just go after the weakest person in order to kill him off and save your hide. Which works great in a kung fu movie, but its too easy to see in this format.

I realize that this game is in TurboPost mode, so its easy to hide for a while then pop up when its convenient. I assume that means that Bunny and Cain will suddenly pop up soon to jump on Chess as well.

Defense? I have nothing to defend really. You put a vote on me, but I don't have one foot on the gallows, or even the stirrup of the horse that would lead me to the gallows. I attacked KC for hyperactivity and terrible play. If he genuinely could not understand the logic or implications of my post thereafter (in regards to Umbrage, and other things that could easily be gleemed from my words), then we have a different matter, but if you're going out of your way to pursue playing a game like mafia, I should be able to expect at least some competancy.

[Nexus]

Righto,
I've spoken to the mod, but I should probably post in here also.

I've come down with some kind of flu-like illness, which is fuddling my brain up and not allowing me to do anything. This, coupled with the fact that I've got to go v/la on Wednesday evening for five days anyway has led the two of us to agree that I should be replaced.

I will quickly attempt to address the issues that were brought up:

I didn't wilfully ignore the other posters, I just got so befuddled trying to explain why I thought pirate was scummy and anti-town that I didn't stop to think about anything else. I believe that anything that makes a post hard to read is anti town, with the exception of the occasional typo. Since it's a game where you're looking for the flaws in people's arguments via text based arguments, the inability to decipher something, whether it's intentional or not, causes problems. I saw it as a deliberate attempt to cause confusion and make it harder to read. If it wasn't the case, then fair enough.

Also

unvote

because the replacement needs to have their own opinions.

Re: Third on a wagon = scummy. Generally, it's easier to slip onto a wagon in the middle, and when the flip happens and you look at voting patterns, you tend to look at hammer vote and wagon starters. Third is a happy medium, and allows people to escape suspicion. So, I put the suspicion on immediately rather than waiting for the wagon and possible flip.

I would address other issues, but since I'm replacing out, it seems like a pointless endeavour.

Smargaret and DoomBunny, I hope this at least goes some way into explaining your questions. I didn't intend for any of this to blow up as it did, life has just bitten me in the ass as it invariably does. You may say "oh he hasn't replaced out of his other games: one is a newbie game that's about to hit night, and the other is a large theme game that is pretty stagnant. This one is fairly new, and I would only stifle the discussion further by remaining in the game and not being able to contribute.

I wished to contribute, but obviously through my own mistakes and life, I've been unable to, and I apologise to y'all.

[chesskid3]

I would argue that 3rd vote on a wagon has ceased to be a scumtell because of the number of clowns who go about going wheeeee 3rd vote on a wagon = scumscumscum