Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.

[Lowell]

Well yes, I meant sensfan should vote me when the time comes if he thinks I'm scum. My sense from the post, though, is that he doesn't. So whatever else you want to say about my play (I'll admit I've been consumed with another game recently), my obvtowniness is a help. So, you know... be happy.

[SensFan]

Lowell's meta is basically impossible to read. In the last couple hours, for instance, he has now said that he's not even trying to read the thread, and doesn't even know the rules of the fucking game. I'm starting to agree with Fonz about him, though, it's certainly extremely noteworthy that there's really no one that seems to want him lynched. Usually people like him are scum targets for easy mislynches.

Not to mention, its the Jack effect. He will be lynched at some point, since we're not letting a ScumLowell win. So if we're going to lynch him at some point, it should probably be sooner rather than later.

[scotmany12]

I kinda want to lynch lowell. I think this is all an act from him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Tribunal Vote Count

Primate - 5(scotmany12, Parama, SpyreX, Primate, Shanba)
ribwich - 4(Nathanael, ribwich, Magua, Lowell)
scotmany12 - 2(Feysal, The Fonz)
SpyreX - 1(SensFan)

Not voting - 0

Deadline is Sunday 21:11 GMT.

[ribwich]

Well yes, I meant sensfan should vote me when the time comes if he thinks I'm scum. My sense from the post, though, is that he doesn't. So whatever else you want to say about my play (I'll admit I've been consumed with another game recently), my obvtowniness is a help. So, you know... be happy.

I have a feeling asking this will lead to absolutely nothing, but whatever, how the hell are you obvtown?

[The Fonz]

Fonz and Sens, since you guys know Lowell's meta fairly well, is this still a null tell for him? That was pretty bad to be that clueless about the game.

Unsure. He's useless nearly all the time, but when town there can sometimes be occasional flashes of usefulness. Irrelevant really, since the policy-lyncher-in-chief is consul today, though.

[Magua]

I've given it some more thought and I don't think Sens is scum.

My case was built on Sens going for a ribwichlynch-followed-by-Jacklynch, assuming they were both town. Since Jack was scum, that's obviously false.

So, backup theory is Sens-scum realizes Jack is going to get lynched, and decides to at least get a ribwich lynch out of it. That's still plausible, but there were plenty of times that the Sens-scum could've tried to throw the Jack lynch off course. Voting ribwich for Tribune D3, for instance, would seem a good move that might keep Jack alive. But we have this:

Tribune Votecount

Ribwich [5] (Nathanael, Lowell, Ribwich, Magua, Jack)
Parama [3] (Porochaz, Parama, Scotmany12)
The Fonz [3] (Sensfan, The Fonz, SpyreX)

(Not voting there is: Primate, Feysal, Leon Belmont. Just noticed that Feysal never voted D3.)

Parama thinks Jack is town -- might veto a lynch. Ribwich vetoed the Jack execution D2, and hadn't really given any indication yet that he wouldn't do that again. But SensFan votes Fonz, who is pretty stridently anti-Jack.

That, combined with scum knowing that there's a second killing role and that it targeted them, makes me think bussing scum would be thinking twice about lynching Jack D3.

Similar logic extends itself to Primate (who had laid very good reasons to be in a position to veto the lynch, and did not).

Scum is going to come from: (Nathanael, Lowell, Parama), and/or (Feysal, Shanba)
(Yes, yes. By my argument, I should be in the first group too. This is FMPOV. Screw off.)

[ribwich]

Something just occurred to me. Most of us have been assuming that the dramonic kill was done by a vig because it was the only night that two people died. But there was something else that was special about night 2. That night was handled by Flameaxe, and he did things a little bit differently. Anyone that took too long to send a night action got prodded. (I know this because that night it took me a while to figure out who I wanted to be consul. I took just as long last night and didn't receive a prod.) Could it be then that dramonic wasn't killed by a vig, but instead by a lazy SK that hasn't been paying much attention to this game?

[Parama]

I kinda want to lynch lowell. I think this is all an act from him.

Y'know what I think I agree with this 100% now. He's using his "meta" as an excuse to not do anything when he is fully capable of at least some for of, y'know, actually playing the game.
Nath is the other scum, so this one's wrapped up good IMO.

[Feysal]

Speaking of Lowell, I've wondered why he appears prominently in Jack's ISO. He was consistently calling Lowell scum right up until he was executed. Also, dramonic mentioned him once, when replying to Nathanael, saying that Lowell or Parama would not be lynched that day.

Whatever plan Jack had, it seems that Lowell had some part in it, given how frequently Jack mentions him. What the plan would be I cannot know. Another scum distancing/bussing attempt, or an attempt to get a townie mislynched?

As for Parama, I am less enthusiastic to believe him scum today, though not because of anything he said or did. Another game I was playing in with Chesskid ended prematurely during the night phase, and I learned Chesskid had been scum there while playing seriously. What little I have seen of his play suggests he plays more seriously and carefully as scum, and his style here was drastically different. I've begun to think dramonic may have been honest when he said Chesskid was obvtown because of his play.

[SensFan]

The problem, Feysal, is that it doesn't take a genius for chesskid to realize all of that, and decide to mess with his own meta.

[Magua]

Something just occurred to me. Most of us have been assuming that the dramonic kill was done by a vig because it was the only night that two people died. But there was something else that was special about night 2. That night was handled by Flameaxe, and he did things a little bit differently. Anyone that took too long to send a night action got prodded. (I know this because that night it took me a while to figure out who I wanted to be consul. I took just as long last night and didn't receive a prod.) Could it be then that dramonic wasn't killed by a vig, but instead by a lazy SK that hasn't been paying much attention to this game?

Play as if it's an SK. If it's a vig, then either there'll be a vig flip or it'll be claimed at some point. If it's scum, they're not going to claim it. Speculation on it just helps scum more than it helps us.

[ribwich]

Maybe my point wasn't getting across. I'm saying we should execute Lowell because in addition to him being generally useless there's a good chance that he's an SK.

[Primate]

I know I said that Jack was probably scum, but I was still pretty relieved to actually be right there. Nice to occasionally not be absolutely terrible.

I remember liking Lowell D1. I thought that he had a somewhat flippant attitude that made him look better, but I must confess I've been generally ignoring him becuase he hasn't been doing much, and unlike how I would treat it normally I know this is typical Lowell behaviour. I also think that his detached attitude around the Jack vetoing speaks in his favour, though I am wondering whether that actually speaks against him because he commented at all, and normally not commenting is Lowells disinterested stance. Also the "xreck and lowell" bit in jacks last post is pretty damn wifom. Dram's "Lowell and Parama will not be lynched today." is also interesting because it feels casual, but drams probably good enough to make a post like that off-hand.

Maybe my point wasn't getting across. I'm saying we should execute Lowell because in addition to him being generally useless there's a good chance that he's an SK.

I think it unlikely an SK lowell missed two thirds of his kills due to lack of attention on the game. Particularly last night, he posted on the 5th here, the 8th in another thread and again here the 10th. I think you have to assume he's present.

That, combined with scum knowing that there's a second killing role and that it targeted them, makes me think bussing scum would be thinking twice about lynching Jack D3.

Spyrex was thinking twice. He very explicitly had to be convinced to lynch Jack over other people and if Fonz and Sens hadn't harrangued him that's probably how it would have gone done. The other thing to consider is that, in this game Jack *will* be going down sooner or later and the last/one of the last remaining scum can't be seen in a situation where earlier in the game they obviously steered a lynch away from Jack. It was the same reason Dram lynched Reck, because she was forced into doing so by the context of the game. All the above also applies to me (in a slightly lesser fashion). But I think you need to take yesterdays lynch with a grain of salt, though that may be because I was suspicious of him before, so I don't know.

Also I really don't think Nath is scum.

[Primate]

Vote Magua for Tribune

[Feysal]

I get ribwich's point about Lowell fitting in as an absent-minded serial killer, but the problem with serial killers is that they usually have to kill every night. I cannot recall where I read it, but a serial killer may even have a random target chosen for him by the moderator if he does not choose himself. I think a limited shot vigilante is considerably more likely now.

[Primate]

Meta may have changed since I was playing a lot but generally SKs can forsake kills if they want and it'd be very rare for a mod to randomise it.

[Feysal]

I'll admit I'm clueless about site meta, but what I said I'd read here somewhere. Anyway, if there was a serial killer, I find it hard to imagine that he would forget or skip killing for two nights, and target scum the one time he did kill. Vigilante is what I'm betting on now.

That still leaves me wondering about Lowell though. Jack started his claim of suspecting him early in day one, and kept it up to the end. What makes it even more baffling is how Jack spoke of scummy or village idiot players being good for consulship, to force them to get involved with the game, and how such players would be easy mislynches for scum. Lowell looks like he fits the description perfectly.

[Magua]

That still leaves me wondering about Lowell though. Jack started his claim of suspecting him early in day one, and kept it up to the end. What makes it even more baffling is how Jack spoke of scummy or village idiot players being good for consulship, to force them to get involved with the game, and how such players would be easy mislynches for scum. Lowell looks like he fits the description perfectly.

Given that Jack was scum, do you think this implies Lowell-town or Lowell-scum? I can't tell from your post.

After getting my ass handed to me by Jack, I've come to the conclusion that I'm better off ignoring everything that he said rather than trying to play a game of WIFOM.

[ribwich]

Remember though that Lowell has admitted to spending more time on a different game than this one, and he's been paying so little attention that he still doesn't realize that I'm confirmed to be town (along with thinking that there's people that think I'm scum) I wouldn't find it that hard to believe that he often spends several days without even checking this topic.

I get ribwich's point about Lowell fitting in as an absent-minded serial killer, but the problem with serial killers is that they usually have to kill every night. I cannot recall where I read it, but a serial killer may even have a random target chosen for him by the moderator if he does not choose himself.

Well the rules state that taking more than 72 hours means your action does not go through, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean no action occurs.

[Lowell]

All right all right I'll read. I'm out of town until thursday, but I'll catch up then.

As for Jack, scum tend to call me scum. I'm an easy target, and scum like to avoid fights. It's easy to say Lowell is scum and not have anything bad happen to you. It's an opportunists dream.

[SensFan]

Am I the only one who finds it odd that, after not caring or posting for almost all of three Days, Lowell seems extremely quick to promise to catch up now that 3 Pyhrric Scum are dead, and so there's presumably only 1-2 Scum left?

[The Fonz]

And I've basically told him he's dead if he doesn't? Not really.

[SensFan]

I don't think TownLowell would care, is I guess what I'm saying.

[Nathanael]

I would agree on a Lowell-lynch at this point.