Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[Shadow1psc]

Better now than days in. Feel better matey.

[smargaret]

IS, are you really saying that it's scummy to go after someone for scummy behavior because they're a bad player? That sounds like terrible logic to me, and encourages the sort of bad play that I'd like to discourage.

Nexus: Feel better.

[Jedo the Jedi]

IS, are you really saying that it's scummy to go after someone for scummy behavior because they're a bad player? That sounds like terrible logic to me, and encourages the sort of bad play that I'd like to discourage.

To me, I think the bad player is the easy target for scum to paint. Sure they need to get better and learn how to not look scummy, but they can't learn very well if they keep getting lynched day 1.

[Doombunny9]

All this has been so far is a giant pissing contest over who can post more. Idiots, all of you.
Just because you can over post somebody and keep at them until you make them cry doesnt mean they are scum.

Despite all that, has anyone even been voting? I dont recall seeing all that many votes being slung around. Is there an official vote count coming up?

unvote: smargaret

I don't like this... First of all, we haven't been having "OMG who can post more" contests and if you think that's what chess has been trying to say you're dead wrong. The problem is people like you not posting.

Also, you call smar right and then vote her with no explaination... HUH? (Also, you keep forgetting to unvote)

If I were you, I would start looking at the mid-level posters.

I say its very like that one of:

Shadow
Cain
Bunny

Is scum. Go piss all over one of them.

More lack of explainations... And you call other posts garbage.

As per Bunny's request for Nexus discussion:
HOLDUP. Bunny, why did you pick out Nexus as the one who deserved more attention? Especially considering he's still V/LA which I've ALREADY picked you up on once before.

Because he's been scummy all game and me and smar are really the only ones talking about him? Also, just because he's V/LA doesn't mean he can't be the topic of discussion, it just means he won't be a part of it for a while.

@My activity-I'm sorry I can't be on this site every moment of my life. I try to make 3 posts a day and if that's not enough for you all, too bad.

shadow seems to be throwing WIFOM around like its his special buzzword that he uses as (As liar previously said) "a magic scumhunting wand." He also seems to be attacking chess but when chess asks about other people, he doesn't respond and in one case calls it WIFOM. shadow is beginning to make me take a VERY close look at him.

Unvote

to give Nexus's replacement a chance to speak and while it won't mean much since he's replacing out, I agree with you a bit on the 3rd on a wagon thing (Despite it not being very strong at all) but 3rd on a RV wagon? Huh?

Finally, get well soon <3

[chesskid3]

I think I've been lynched day 1 3-4 times total.
2 of them were while I had no internet access.
I don't get lynched D1.

[chesskid3]

Actually I think I've only been lynched like two times outside of D1 as well. :/
I don't get lynched much.

[chesskid3]

the only game D1 started like this for me was Gorrad's which is ongoing, and I did get lynched D1 (town). Can't really talk about it, but looking at current flips there were 2 dead scum among the first 6 people voting me (only 3 of whom have flipped, actually) (and no finalvotecount lolol).
So
hrm

[Liar]

IS, are you really saying that it's scummy to go after someone for scummy behavior because they're a bad player? That sounds like terrible logic to me, and encourages the sort of bad play that I'd like to discourage.

To me, I think the bad player is the easy target for scum to paint. Sure they need to get better and learn how to not look scummy, but they can't learn very well if they keep getting lynched day 1.

Indeed, but Shadow is pushing Chesskid3 as a policy lynch, rather than trying to paint him as Scum.

[smargaret]

DB, IS unvoted me in that post. Although, unvoting after complaining that nobody's voting is kind of silly.

[PranaDevil]

Nexus has requested replacement due to personal issues.

As of now bristep123 replaces Nexus

[Internet Stranger]

I dont know what Bunny is talking about. He looks like he stopped reading back on page 10 and just decided to post anyways.

Why yes Margaret, thats exactly what im saying. Jedo already schooled you on this, but scum feast on idiots like Chess. If Chess turns out to be town (which they usually are), the scum can just use their idiocy as a crutch.

Its the same crap with the third on the wagon thing. That used to catch scum 10 years ago until it went out of style. I guess its a trend thats making a comeback.

Oh and yes, I forgot to mention's Shadows throwing buzzwords around like if they are magic spells. I dont know if not getting them right is deliberate to fluff his posts or not. Either way, im all for lynching him.

PrevEdit: Policy lynch? Thats twice Shadow has mentioned those. Scum use those as crutches to lynch townies as well.


@ Chess - Did you really need to post THREE times to tell us about useless information from other games? You dont see why everyone thinks youre stupid?

[Shadow1psc]

Liar said that IS. Though I certainly did mention policy lynch in my first discussion with Chess. I hate VIs, there's a reason newb games exist. That may be an ellitist or asshole thing to say, but, well... I'm kind of an ass, and very sarcastic. Like I said, I expect at least a certain level of comprehension in the game if you're going to pursue playing it, and you have in fact been playing awhile (as CK just mentioned he has been).

[AurorusVox]

Indeed, but Shadow is pushing Chesskid3 as a policy lynch, rather than trying to paint him as Scum.

Which of those (PL/paint scum) do you think scum are most likely to do to a VI?

Smargret; what's your read of Nexus in light of his replacement?
(on the topic of Nexus, he probably won't be back to see me say "Get well soon!" but there it is anyway, yarr.)

[smargaret]

Demoted to a 6/10 - IGMEO the replacement, but I can also see how being that sick would cause some confusion (I had pneumonia in the fall and had a very hard time keeping things straight).

[Umbrage]

Gladly. 1) My vote was made before Nexus realized her mistake and voted me. 2) As far as I'm concerned, it was still RVS.

Really? He had already stated his reasoning for the vote, he just got it on the wrong person. It was only a matter of time before he voted you. Good cover to get your vote in there

as he was typing his

.

You got me, that was my evil plan: taking advantage of the narrow window of opportunity to successfully OMGUS. And I would've gotten away with it too! Or............... it was coincidence. It was RVS. I didn't care who was third on that joke wagon. For me to OMGUS, that implies that I must have taken Nexus' vote on me as a threat. To which I say again: RVS.

You're pretty much copying AV's case now. Read my response(s) to him.

I did read them. They were bad. For example:

@ Aurorus Vox:

Are you voting for me simply because I based my support for a mass claim on the reactions of other players?

That's just stupid.

The entire point of an early mass claim is to catch scum off guard.

You then proceeded to misquote them and ignore the reasons they gave, followed with asking a rhetorical question about their scumminess. Show me where you out-logic him.

Show where I misquoted then.

While I'm here, Liar, I gave one example in my post, but here is another:

Umbrage: I am voting you because you don't want to give an opinion about massclaim at a relatively early point in the game, which looks to be hyperdefensive.

No, me did give me opinion: I was fer it at first, den I saw dat dere wasn't mooch o' a case fer it 'appenin'. chesskid3 was actin' more scummy den Nexus an' Shadow. I tought aboot it, an' decided it would prob'ly 'elp scum more den town. I's always been givin' me reasons fer tings.

He dropped being for the mass claim as quickly as chess did, after being for it for a poor reason in the first place. He still hasn't owned up to that one.

That post in question implied scum knowledge, at least to me. He wasn't saying "what if the scum have fakeclaims?", he was saying "the scum probably have fakeclaims, so there's no point in a massclaim". There's a big difference.

Actually, there was an

or

in there. He was saying that if scum claim it won't be obvious by their name that they are town or scum. For instance, somebody said Elizabeth Swann was scum in a game, but that doesn't mean she will be scum in every game. There's a big difference.

?

I'm not sure whether to laugh or groan at this. First of all, people change votes. It happens. It doesn't mean that they don't still suspect the old person. Secondly, I do NOT know that Nexus is scum. I do NOT know that chesskid3 is scum. I notice some people look scummy, and then I make my best guesses. I don't 'know' any scum. That's just silly.

I know people change their votes, but just jumping from person to person at every new scum tell doesn't help. Pressure is never applied to the suspicious person that way. If you had actually read what I said you would realize that. Also, if you don't KNOW who is scum, then why do you keep calling people "scum" using that exact term?

Yes, I made a mistake. I admitted the mistake. What else do you expect from me?

There's a difference between what you did and what Vox did. Maybe you can compare.

?

Not everyone has to be a logical genius to play. If chesskid3 had pushed flawed reasoning, that would be null. But he pushed contradictory reasoning. I still don't know what he attempted to achieve with an MC.

Contradictory reasoning is an example of flawed reasoning. I don't see why one makes him more scummy than the other.

Well, for one thing: "I still don't know what he attempted to achieve with an MC.". There's reasoning that doesn't hold up under pressure, and there's reasoning that just makes no sense. For example, you can argue the world is flat, which is not true, but you can see how it might seem true, and it will take a lot of work to disprove it. On the other hand, you can argue the entire world is pink, which makes no sense.

When I agreed with him, he had a town read on me. When I attacked him, he got a scum/null read. Correlation may not imply causation, but it's still a pretty big coincidence.

This is a good example of you being evasive. The post in question was a summation of why you thought chess was scum. You deliberately misrepresented him and his logic. That is scummy.

You saying I misrepresented something is not proof of me misrepresenting something. I don't even know what it is I'm supposed to have misrepresented.

I corrected that typo later on.

I accidentally emphasized the wrong point. (I hadn't paid attention to the fact that Liar is not in all-caps.) The point is that Liar was acting in a way that could be viewed as scummy, but he still believed he was town.

How do you know what chess was thinking?

It's called inference.

1) AV had just begun his case on me, and chesskid3 was leaning towards my being scum. I was the prime wagon, regardless of any reasoning.

You had just started to make scummy posts. I can't help it that Vox and I saw it at the same time. chess was not leaning toward you being scum. He kept insisting you were town, and you were aggravating him toward voting you regardless of what he thought.

'Aggravating' him? What does that mean? It was my fault he used OMGUS?

2) But you were operating under the assumption that either chesskid3 or myself was scum. Meaning that if I'm lynched today, you can say "oh well it must be chess" and lynch him.

No, I was operating under the assumption that you were scum. chess was probably the townie who was unfortunately employing bad reasoning which brought him under fire. If I don't reevaluate that later in light of further evidence, I would be doing the town a disservice.

It doesn't matter what your thought process was, the post clearly suggested that one of us was scum.

3) I see your argument now. chesskid3 strikes you more as struggling town than scum. I disagree, but you make a valid point.

Thank you.

4) Near the end you said "because I already suspect Umbrage..." which means that you find points against me because you suspect me, which is flawed logic. This fits in nicely with my being the wagon of choice: as scum, it would be good for you to say I'm scum, therefore you want a case to say I'm scum, therefore you dig up a case while working under the assumption I'm scum.

It was an addendum in which I was saying, "I've already said all of this stuff, I think this newest post only makes it worse." What you accuse me of would be flawed logic, but that's not what I was doing.

You admit that if you didn't already see me as scummy you wouldn't have picked up on that. That is flawed and biased logic.

5) You speak of lynching me, but you don't seem that convinced I'm scum. You really look like you're trying to CYA.

I'm as convinced as I can be with only posts to go on. Also, I'm getting really tired of all these acronyms. Does it take that much to just type it out? (Meaning: what is CYA?)

@ IS: If you say 'retarded' one more time or make one more insulting remark, I'm requesting your replacement and reporting you. It makes you sound like a teenage high school drop-out with poor English.

I still see Shadow and CK3's argument as distancing.

OMG YOU ARE LURKING!!!!!!!!111
WELL YOUR POSTING TO MUCH1!!1
YOUR SCUM!!!!!!!111111111111111111111
NO YOUR SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

It caused me physical pain to read through all that. It looks totally fake. They're not even bothering to build proper cases. It's like sibling squabble. I'm reading Shadow in ISO now.

[chesskid3]

You know I'm sure our back and forths were equally painful to people who are not us.

[Shadow1psc]

Did you really have to quote that Umbrage? Jesus.

[Doombunny9]

DB, IS unvoted me in that post. Although, unvoting after complaining that nobody's voting is kind of silly.

I was referring to when he switched his vote to shadow. My bad when I said "That he 'keeps' forgetting to unvote"

I dont know what Bunny is talking about. He looks like he stopped reading back on page 10 and just decided to post anyways.

Can you explain what you mean by this? You've said nothing about smar other than that she was right about there being a lot of "insane dribble" and nothing about me/shadow/cain other then that we're mid-level posters and in shadows case, spectator scum and then go ahead and call the four of us scummy with no further explaination. Nice job dodging BTW

The only thing I've failed to read were some of the Jedo/Umbrage walls which as far as I'm aware, have no bearing on anything I've talked about in my last post (correct me if I'm wrong).

[Liar]

Indeed, but Shadow is pushing Chesskid3 as a policy lynch, rather than trying to paint him as Scum.

Which of those (PL/paint scum) do you think scum are most likely to do to a VI?

Both town and mafia would do the same thing, go for a policy lynch. Town because of shear frustration. Scum because a PL would be easier to pull off.

[Internet Stranger]

Hey Umbrage, your little threats have no teeth since Shadow is doing it too.

Bunny, I was referring to the unvoting comment, which has since been corrected. Im not paying Attention to Margaret right now either.

[bristep123]

I need to take some time to read through the day's play. But morning all!

Yarr, and all that.

[bristep123]

Couple of quick things, not really overly deep. I have to start work soon so it'll be later today before I can make some constructive contributions.

This is my second game ever, and only my first on MS. Please have patience if I need you to clarify any slang or abbreviations. I'll try and consult the wiki first though.

With that said, smargaret what is IGMEO?

@InternetStrangler You say that Shadow is "doing it too" (referring I assume to Umbrage having issue with your use of the word 'retard') but I ISO'd his posts and the only time the word comes up is in your post which he quoted. Did I miss something or did you misread the thread/lie? I realise that it wasn't game-related but I subscribe to the thought that everything said in-topic should be considered as informative for the game.

My predeccessor has left some questions unanswered, and since I can't speak for him I will need to go through his posts and try to offer my own thoughts. In that game he was scum, but was far more aggressive. However, knowing that I am town I can also now go through and analyse the voting/accusations laid on my spot to give me something to begin scumhunting with. In that respect I suppose Nexus did me a favour.

Also a lot of direct replying without quoting the original question/poster. Makes it hard to follow play patterns when ISO'ing someone's posts. Is this a standard thing on MS?

[bristep123]

EBWOP : The line "In that game he was scum, but was far more aggressive." was part of a larger statement I was making about my first game which Nexus was part of. I forgot to delete it before posting. I figured that there is little point including meta information about someone who is a) now no longer part of the game and also b) who's position I have now taken. I forgot to delete the whole section however, so in the interests of openess here is what I was going to say;

Nexus was involved in the only other game I've played, which was on another forum. In that game he also said something stupid early on, however in that game he was scum and far more aggressive/less rational in his defence. After reading the scum thread (post game, once it was opened up as I was VT) it seems like it was deliberate, and his fellow scum tried to dissuade him. I don't see as much aggression from him this time round, defensive sure and also not explaining himself very well but not aggression.

[bristep123]

Ok, there has been a lot of to and fro in the game already and I have some suspicions but right now it's post #251 http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2719165 from Jedo, followed by Umbrage's response in post #259, Jedo's subsequent reply in post #318 and again Umbrage's reply in post #339 that give me my strongest feeling.

I think Umbrage is scum. Jedo's points cover a lot of the feelings I got reading through the past 14 pages, Chesskid seems more to be a VI than a scum playing a style whereas you seem more composed. I think that you are scum, and I think that as time has gone on you have begun to grasp onto things, such as the "distancing" between Shadow and CK3. While it's posted as being unconnected, it seems like you are still trying to push CK3 by distance.

for that reason

VOTE Umbrage

Others on my radar right now are

Smargaret - Has contributed little, other than try to start a wagon on the spot I now occupy. Gave it up lately as nobody seemed to take her on (since Nexus was V/LA) with a weak jump onto CK3. Also has said that she was 70-80% certain that both Nexus and CK3 were scum (7/8 out of ten, I percentagised her fractionation incase anyone claims misquotation), which I just don't see enough evidence from either to warrant. Has not given any opinion on Umbrage, despite the fact that he had the most votes and therefore the most scrutiny.

Doombunny9 - Again, very focused on Nexus and although his explanations weren't the best and the "Die scum" comment was dumb in his first vote I really don't think there's a strong enough case to be so focused on. You also rubbished IS's theory that one of the mid-active posters is likely to be scum because there was no explanation behind it. While there wasn't an explanation it is still a valid point because a scum tactic is to sit in the pack, not too little and not too much. I saw it in the last game I played so it's definitely a valid claim. For you to instantly rubbish it simply because IS didn't provide detailed reasoning behind his words.

InsaneStrangler - Very agressive play so far, could be a natural style or it could be a style for the game. Either way I need to keep an eye on his posts.

I also see where Umbrage is coming from with the use of the word "retard" and without knowing their respective ages I have to assum that Umbrage is older and IS is younger. The word retard is a lot less offensive to this generation, and is used a lot more for better or for worse as a derogatory word in much the same way that this generation also use the term "gay" to describe something they see as bogus ("You OMGUS'ed me? That's so gay.) That said, if it's been made clear that your use of the word is offending someone is it asking too much to stop using it around that person?

[Internet Stranger]

Thats so gay, I already did stop using the word RETARD in a derogatory context. Umbrage just needs to lighten up and get his panties out of his ass a little.

What I mean is that Shadow keeps doing the ad hominems at me as well, but no one seems to mind those. But I think thats more of a tactic to try to diffuse the wagon that im trying to establish against him. He falls into the same category that Bunny is having issues with; he falls into that mid-level poster that isnt really doing much and just trying to barely stay on the radar.

But Shadow is also trying to use a lot of Jedi mind tricks to manipulate. Like throwing WIFOM's around when unnecessary and beating up on Chesskid, who is.. um... mentally deficient and plays the unskilled scumhunter persona to perfection.

Margaret just wants a lynch. Any lynch. Which is suspicious, but not damning yet.

I like this new guy. Lets keep him. (And lynch Shadow).