Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: JesseSheffield

[Nachomamma8]

And yes, it has been way too long...

[Nachomamma8]

Haha scumslip!

Unvote, Vote: Brokenscraps

[Nachomamma8]

The premise was correct, but the conclusion was wrong.
I felt it to be a better action on my part to ignore the point and see how people reacted to it.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't check the thread when everyone was confirming.

[Nachomamma8]

*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert
*Spoiler Alert

All PM's from mods states to confirm in thread or via PM. You have been playing long enough that I don't see why you would not confirm once you see the PM.

I did confirm once I saw the PM.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: AntB

L-1.

Why would this be a better action? As in, if people ignored it you could get away with ignoring it as well to not bring attention to it? I don't see why you would notice it and then think "let's see what others think" unless you were scum, super worried about what others think.

Ignoring it gives other people a chance to jump into the fray, and it gives you a chance to prove yourself. You following up on it is +town points for you. I really, really was hoping someone other than farside would respond, but no love for a democrat in republican territory.

So you visited the site and read and posted in a thread without noticing you had new messages, something clearly shown at the start of every page? Not exactly believable, which makes me wonder why you'd lie about this...

No. I got on the site despite having work to do, so I posted once and then got back to work. It's a nice policy not to check PMs when you have work to do because PMs always lead to other things.

[Nachomamma8]

I ain't claiming. There's nothing to claim.

Why did you even consider claiming before checking the votecount that was posted right above my head?

@nacho, so you say that you had 1 new message but didnt check it?

Well, if you wanted to get super specific I never said how many, but yeah.

[Nachomamma8]

Why claim I'm at L-1 when there's a vote count right above your head...

For this. The reaction.

The only time I check vote counts is when I'm voting.

So what made you check the votecount after you made that post?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't random vote.

Do you vote at all...?

At least 2/3rds of my wagon are scum IMO anyway....

The 2/3 of the people who butter their bread?
The 2/3 of people that put their left thumb on top when folding their hands?
The 2/3 of people that preferred Bounty to the next top competitor in paper towel

Then finally, my hatred for the inactives

You know, you're a bit of an inactive yourself...

[Nachomamma8]

PRESIDENT KENNEDY IS TIRED OF FARSIDE'S ANTICS. AS A RESULT, PRESIDENT KENNEDY IS STOPPING THIS.

RE: CONFIRM TELL:
It's weak. What on earth could I be planning in the QT that it takes me FOUR HOURS to plot over? Why wouldn't I confirm beforehand and then make my post in the QT? This isn't a theme game, and it's not that difficult to say "Hi I'm Nacho my experience with players on the playlist is x and I think we should y". Hell, even if my scumpartner had questions for me, it wouldn't take FOUR HOURS to discuss them. What do you think I, as scum, would think not confirming would do, anyways? It only takes 9/13 people to confirm, which is a little more than half. Is there really any tangible advantage in delaying one out of nine confirmations? No. Not at all. It's a good RVS discussion starter, yes, but it's not a real tell.

RE: ROLEFISHING:
I have played with AntB before. He's not a complete failure of a player, and he is smart enough to read through the game, which means that he would read the votecount before he would read my "Ant is at L-1" post. If he was a PR, I'm doubly sure he would question the fact and read the votecount. As town, he wouldn't claim ANYTHING after that post. And thanks to AntB being a little prone to OMGUS at times, I'm pretty sure he would've called me scum based off it.

RE: AntB
farside, I'm voting AntB because he doesn't believe anything he's saying. Read all of his posts, and you'll see that the people he's ever called scum were "2/3 of [his] wagon", which doesn't refer to anyone in particular. He votes brokenscraps for trying to cover up a slip, not for being scum, he hasn't explained why he's voting me. And no, this isn't a "quirk" of his. Then, of course, there's how he responds to me tricking him. He doesn't call me out for rolefishing. It doesn't set off his scumdar at all. Last time I played with this guy, he SUICIDE BOMBED a guy for voting him and not explaining. So the fact that this doesn't sit strange with him and know DAMN well he's prone to OMGUS, well, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

You played ONE game with me, and if you really want to go build meta on me, instead of looking at posts in general, go through to games I've played (it's all on the wiki). All you'll find afaik is that I have a variable playstyle. The only consistency being, I like OMGUS... What can I say, I like the scum to jump at me, and I like to attack my attackers...

The only things I used to conclude from your meta is that you're not a fucking terrible player, and that you're prone to OMGUS. Since you just confirmed the second and I'm hoping that you don't think you're a fucking terrible player, I'm pretty sure both of those conclusions are true.

[sarcasm] Because I always announce every suspicion I have... [/sarcasm]

Yes, because you were TOTALLY just witholding your suspicion of me there. You weren't waiting for someone to come along and make the case on me for you...

lol? Surely there's enough reaction from me on previous 4 pages to go on without fishing for more?

This doesn't qualify as a reason.

Now your case on me seems to be heavily based on meta, am I really that much of a threat to you?

1) See top of post.
2) Yes.

[Nachomamma8]

:lies:

Well, this isn't anything new.

-----------------
No comment. >.>

[Nachomamma8]

I'll clarify that reason for you:
You've thrown 4 pages of "reactions" to one side and went for broke, going for another reaction by faking putting me a L-1, now if that's a gambit, that's risky as hell, and I don't see any potential benefit from it, apart from forcing a mislynch.

I haven't thrown 4 pages of reactions to one side. 4 pages certainly isn't enough to determine alignment. The gambit would be riskier if there wasn't a votecount right above me and if I didn't read your games.

[Nachomamma8]

Only scum would see me as a threat..

while true I'm not completely terrible, I'm not exactly much good either.

Explain this. If I see you as scum, I see you as a threat to the town.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Archer

lord_hur, I figured ALL of his posts give that feeling, especially when he's attacking a suspect in them.

[Nachomamma8]

Brokenscraps has pinged scumdar quite badly...
fail case (2nd confirm is scum) and chainsaw fail

So now covering up a slip isn't serious... sure whatever.

My vote was serious, in "serious times" as I felt (and still do feel) he was(is) trying to cover for a slip.

I have said again, andrew94s vote made me reconsider the case entirely and I believe they both have something to hide. There's no neighbours... If andrew94 had not voted for me I would have moved on pretty quickly.

I hope you meant AntB because if you were referencing Archer I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Nachomamma8]

Every day I stay as farside's top suspect, my heart breaks a little more.

I would like you to develop this. This is not specific enough in my opinion to judge if you actually are honest in your attack.

There are a few reasons as to why I'm voting Archer. For one, his entrance into the game was scummy; he did not comment on brokenscraps tell on me, and he still made an RVS vote despite everything happening around him. Reads as scum trying to fit in, but not quite sure how. Then, there's the hatred for lurkers when he himself was lurking, which is of course hypocritical. But, the main reason for my vote is his response to yours. Instead of defending himself and posting why he wasn't making bad votes, or even asking you to clarify, he says you provided "no reasons", says that people who don't provide reasons are typically scum, and then asks him why you decided to vote him in this scummy way. This is deflection, not defense, and I don't like it at all.

[Nachomamma8]

As to why AntB doesn't believe what he says, refer to #175. The first quote is him saying his scumdar was pinged quite badly, and that brokenscraps's case "failed". And yet, no vote. This shows that his scumdar wasn't pinged that badly, since when people find scum, they put a vote along with their suspicions.

The second quote demonstrates AntB dancing around the answer to a question far more than he needed to. Farside said he was voting for a crap reason, and all he needed to do is answer "a scumslip isn't a crap answer". Again, shows he doesn't believe what he says because he's afraid to just come right out and say it.

The third quote just bleeds of crap. It's drawing scumteams this early in the game that seem to stem from being voted, although he tries to hide it in creative ways.

[Nachomamma8]

Far too much wagon jumping

WAGON JUMPS:
AntB to Archer

How is this "far too much wagon jumping" in the least bit?

not enough reasoning

I have plenty of reasoning, especially considering it's PAGE 8.

seems to either be half arsed about the game in general or scum after an easy ride.

Wonderful fencesitting. What makes you think it's the second as opposed to the first? Why do you think I would be after an easy ride as scum since I was under pressure since we've been out of the starting gate?

The posts he's put about me not believing my vote seem to say to opposite IMO, in addition to lord_hurs' backtracking and contradictory comment,

So you agree that backtracting and contradicting are the only two ways to find out if someone believes what they're doing or not?

Surely if I didn't believe my own vote I would backtrack, give no reasoning and back down very quickly under town pressure?

Beautiful WIFOM. If this were true, then all scum would back down given pressure. All scum don't.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not "people". I'm AntB. I play how I play, not how people such as yourself expect me to play. When I believe I've found scum I hunt around looking for potential connections. Using peoples reactions at this point can provide me with reads later on.

I checked your newbie game, and you voted when you had suspicions then. You also went through with your suspicions in Hair Trigger Mafia... so is there any meta you have where you refused to vote who you found suspicious?

I am a sarcastic person. There is no dancing around, I provided an answer which boils down to "a scumslip isn't a crap reason to vote".

What does sarcasm have to do with anything?

I draw a connection for use later when one of them flips. I wasn't pointing a scumteam, I was pointing a possible connection.

Could have been a Night 0 investigation for all I know.

We won't find out while later.

Could you explain the bolded? Considering this is an open setup and all. With no Night Zero.

Opportunistic jumping. You went with the flavour of the day both times.

How the hell was Archer the "flavor of the day"? Lord hur voted him and farside commented on him. There was and is more support on the YOU wagon (you know, the wagon I was leaving) than that.

Your reasoning for voting me is.... nothing. You provide nothing to go with your vote on me - except an L-1 claim. Then later you just wanted the reaction... You lie, to get a reaction...

So you're a lynch all liars prescriber then? I never demanded a claim. Hell, I never even MENTIONED the word claim.

Nothing of your own, just a generic general agreement.

That quote is referring to you.

Well it is quite comfy up there... Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say either option was more viable than the other. But while we're on the matter, opportunistic voting and lying to pull a reaction seem like your attempting to give the illusion of a scum hunt, but are just going with the easy wagons in an attempt to cruise. Even pressured scum can cruise if they're smart enough, as I believe you to be.

Don't put words in your mouth?

UNVOTE: brokenscraps
VOTE: Nachomamma8

OH SORRY I FIGURED YOU WERE VOTING WHO YOU SUSPECTED. HOW IDIOTIC OF ME.

If someone doesn't believe the reasoning behind their votes they will either crumble under pressure, contradict themselves, back down quickly, lie and provide minimal reasoning. (Sound familiar?).

If this was true, then mafia would be a piece of cake, now wouldn't it?
And I didn't believe any of what I was saying here, but I sure as hell didn't back down.

Scum would go for the easiest option, with minimal reasoning; and then with town pressure they would quickly unvote with just as little reason.

But but

I'm not "people". I'm AntB. I play how I play, not how people such as yourself expect me to play. When I believe I've found scum I hunt around looking for potential connections. Using peoples reactions at this point can provide me with reads later on.

[Nachomamma8]

AntB voted brokenscraps right after he answered, what's suspicious about waiting for a target's defense before casting a vote?

It was the RVS. He had already cast a random vote. There was no reason not to vote seriously over not. I could understand this type of conservative play if it wasn't RVS, or if he hadn't case a vote. But neither of these things applied, so... scum.

The wording leaves much room for improvement, but this is exactly what I understood when I read AntB's post : he DOES say a scum slip is a valid reason to vote.

But why couldn't he have just said that? Why did he have to cover his ass so much?

I call complete bullshit on this as a reason for your voting, as this was posted by AntB AFTER your vote!

You asked me for reasons why I was voting AntB. Obviously reasons for voting change as your vote sits on someone for a while and they do more scummy things.

And there you do it again! I am asking for your reasons *at the time of your vote*, I don't give a rat's ass about a reread exploited in retrospect! You said, in the same post as your vote :

At the time of the vote, I thought he was scum. And specifically for what, I don't remember. All I remember is that I thought he was scum.

How the hell could "that feeling you get from ALL of his posts" have referred to deflection, when this is the first time he is faced with a real attack in this game, and on top of that it had nothing to do with what I was talking about?

I was talking about AntB.

[Nachomamma8]

48 - nacho claims he did confirm as soon as he saw the PM, yet broken says nacho had been online inbetween. BUT post 102 from nacho seems to contradict this "No. I got on the site despite having work to do, so I posted once and then got back to work. It's a nice policy not to check PMs when you have work to do because PMs always lead to other things." Did he not see the PM first time round? He also later admits only one new PM was in his inbox (107). Something just doesnt sit right with the explanation.

How does it contridict? I don't consider myself to have seen a PM unless I read it. I didn't read it. I got online, posted, left.

126, post from nacho. Read like a heavily meta based attempt to discredit AntB. The use of President Kennedy all in caps also does not sit right with me. I cant quite explain it right now, but will think on it and try again tomorrow

Why do you believe I as scum am liklier to utilize caps?
Why is meta bad?

189, nacho's latest post. There are two lies in there. First, I did question/comment on the first tell broken had on you (40). I also did try to explain my vote to lord_hur (even though I failed miserably and now see my error).

1) In 40, you asked brokenscraps why CN and I were obvscum. You did NOT comment on the confirmation tell.
2)

Another one who does not give reasons. Again I'll say, I think people who say things without reasons backing them up are looking for the input from other people first, for approval from the town. And that way you get to stay safe. People who give reasons are putting themself out there, risking themselves, since it is a lot more difficult to back off once you've laid out your entire case. So any reason you used the former, slightly scummy method?

This is your response to lord_hur. This is NOT trying to explain your vote.

And yes, I know I'll be questioned about jumping on the popular wagon, and trying to score town points should nacho flip scum, etc. Thats my own fault for playing so bad earlier. The only other person that stands out to me is Egg, I really dont think there has been anything of value in his posts.

Thinking about how this will make you look suspicious is not a protown frame of mind.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh look, meta-case. If you look at my other games, both completed and on-going I think you'll find it hard to establish a solid meta.

Did you forget this already?

I'm not "people". I'm AntB. I play how I play, not how people such as yourself expect me to play. When I believe I've found scum I hunt around looking for potential connections. Using peoples reactions at this point can provide me with reads later on.

How do you expect me to respond to a meta defense with anything BUT a meta case?

Well if your taking my meta into account, a lot... otherwise, part of the bit you initially quoted was sarcasm.

What bit specifically? What would you have said if you weren't being sarcastic?

You placed L-1 underneath your vote for me, essentially claiming yours was the L-1 vote. I never said you asked for a claim from me. And yes, Lynch All Liars is also a policy of mine.

Wonderful.
So are you lynching me due to policy, or do you have actual reasons? When did you plan on bringing your policy up? Why didn't you bring it up before?

I didn't explicitly say which option I went for and I provided my reasoning for voting you.

Well, let's just say I'm hoping you're not voting me since you believe I'm lazy town.
Do you have any other suspects, then?

I don't consider meta except in rare circumstances. Yours does not qualify to be a rare circumstance.

You should be considering meta if you want to push a "scum do this and you're doing this" case. There's no excuse when there's plenty of meta to be had.

and..? If I have a vote in place, that vote stays where I it. I don't change my vote a lot.

Meaning that your belief in what you're writing can't be measured by how stubborn you are. Meaning that other ways need to be found in order to gauge your intentions. Surely you see where I'm going?

I lol at you.

And why do you think something like that is more likely to come from scum than town? Or do you even believe I'm scum in the first place?

[Nachomamma8]

The one thing I recalled in our last game together and he was town that he when he was town in that game he came off as a complete jerk.

;.;
I didn't think you thought I was a jerk...
And anyways, I'm more of an asshole when I have luxury to be.

Which game?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=450
Walling the town into submission is something I do in endgame (see Newbie 940 for a good example of that). I also do it under pressure.

[Nachomamma8]

NACHO: WHICH FOUR PLAYERS DO YOU FIND SCUMMY/SUSPICIOUS AND WHY?

AntB-
For everything else I've said about him.
For the crappy brokenscraps case.
For the weak vote on me.
For the self-hammer scenario, which smells like bullshit.

Archer-
Ignoring the brokenscraps tell.
Hypocrisy.
Bad vote on AntB.
"Even though this may turn into OMGUS..."
Prepping for a scummy wagon jump onto me.

JesseSheffield-
Not taking stances, noncommital, lurker.

Looker OR MidnightHike-
Because I needed a fourth and these two people haven't done anything.

[Nachomamma8]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=12533

Start at like page 3 in my ISO, that's me defending myself.
Or did you mean just normally?

[Nachomamma8]

So you vote on a fuzzy feeling, because you can find reasons later? And then you vote another person without any reason, as you were actually attacking someone else entirely, and that someone is the one you were voting right before?

Yes. I try to find scum first, and I convince people of them being scum later. After all, gut usually isn't unfounded and a vote can produce the reactions that will tell me where the gut is coming from.

[Nachomamma8]

You play on meta, while I disagree with it others swear on it. For those that use it I will provide what they need/

Let's requote this bit of the exchange.

Spoiler: Nacho vs AntB

As to why AntB doesn't believe what he says, refer to #175. The first quote is him saying his scumdar was pinged quite badly, and that brokenscraps's case "failed". And yet, no vote. This shows that his scumdar wasn't pinged that badly, since when people find scum, they put a vote along with their suspicions.

Note the lack of meta here.

I'm not "people". I'm AntB. I play how I play, not how people such as yourself expect me to play. When I believe I've found scum I hunt around looking for potential connections. Using peoples reactions at this point can provide me with reads later on.

Here's where meta comes in.

I checked your newbie game, and you voted when you had suspicions then. You also went through with your suspicions in Hair Trigger Mafia... so is there any meta you have where you refused to vote who you found suspicious?

So I respond with a meta attack.

Oh look, meta-case. If you look at my other games, both completed and on-going I think you'll find it hard to establish a solid meta.

And now you act like I've been attacking you with meta this entire time.

In other words, stop trying to discount meta when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I stated before which bit was sarcasm. I would have probably dismissed the point either way,

Requote it, then. I'm not seeing it. You also still haven't answered my question.

If I was lynching on policy I would have said so sooner. I have provided the reasons several times.

Answer ALL of my questions.

andrew94 is my secondary suspect currently.

Why?

This contradicts your previous claim that you voted for the reaction.

How?

This seems contradictory:

It's not even close to contradictory unless you believe that we should ignore shitty reasoning.

[Nachomamma8]

1. He is active elsewhere on MS and ignores this game some days

I haven't been away from this game for a significant amount of time. I've posted more than 90% of the players in this game.

2. He jumps from one vote to another on two separate people with little to no reason, although he claims both or scummy.

I did that in the "jerk" game you quoted too.

3. Every post I read doesn't not look or read as someone scum hunting. He post lots of arguments with players with no fleshed out reason's for his suspects.

I have fleshed them out just fine. Do you want me to post a PBPA on them or something??

4. His scum suspect list is weak. It has no real thought process or fleshed out aspects or comment amount other players then the 2 he has argued with all game.

This, coming from you? Who has been tunneling me all game? Do you even have a 4 player scum suspect list with "fleshed out" reasons?

[Nachomamma8]

He post a scum list in which 2 of the player he found scummy were just because.

Forgot to address this.

JesseSheffield

LURKER

MidnightHike

LURKER

Looker

LURKER

drmyshottyizsik

LURKER

andrew94

LURKER

Egg

LURKER

smashbro_of_the_SSS

LURKER

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS HAVE POSTED ENOUGH FOR ME TO GET A STRONG READ ON THEM. OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE OBLIGATORY LURKER SPOTS BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A SCUMREAD ON ALL THE ACTIVE PLAYERS.

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA for a day

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA lasting longer than expected, but I will make a post in here tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm intentionally lurking at the moment, actually.

I've pegged two scum so far, I'm just wondering whether farside is the third or not.

[Nachomamma8]

Oops, must have been a mistake. I think I meant to write DavidParker, as that's the only one that I'm confident in would be scum based on the flip.

No, that's not right either.

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town

Original quote.

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of DavidParker for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town

DavidParker substituted in for Smashbro and it still doesn't make sense. Farside, how exactly is this Batt "defending himself well?"

Unvote, Vote: Battousai

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma8 : again, please explain why you find this scummy enough to warrant a vote.

He can't keep his words straight.

I know that Batt doesn't flail this bad, ever.
I know as town, he doesn't rush his posts.
I also know that he's a gambiter at heart, like yours truly.
So, I thought: What reason would Batt have to make countless mistakes like that? Wait, isn't recklessness counted as a classic 'town tell'?

But you people don't think like me, so I'll have to make a JS case to convince you guys so I can GET THAT LYNCH.
The only thing that casts doubt on this whole situation is that Bella suspicion of his, but that's it. And if JesseSheffield was as scummy as I remember him, it's not enough to save him from being scum.

Nacho's "L-1" thing after his L-3 vote gives me a headache. He says he did it intentionally for a reaction, but wouldn't an expected reaction be a premature claim?

Care commenting on current events, mister Eggman?

Oh yeah, I'll start doing ISOs.

[Nachomamma8]

andrew ISO:

Archer do you have anything else to add to the convo?

I've read everything (again!) and am beginning to wander about the poor reasoning from AntB. Sure, perhaps it was a honest mistake, but he is sticking with it, which makes me suspicious. The fact that brokenscraps still avoids me gives him some more scum points too.

Also drmyshottyizsik has done minimal hunting imo, its mostly one liners. And they usually aren't even that useful. Scum points for drmyshottyizsik!

Then finally, my hatred for the inactives I await explanations from all of them.

errrr.
what about you sir?

copycat nacho

I doubt scum would remember what fake reasons they have to call someone scum.
I HIGHLY doubt that scum would care about their fake reasons being ripped off.

dude ok, in one of my recently finsihed games, nacho was scum and he posted walls of shit to confuse everyone and its a trap.
ffs

TOWN
This is exemplary of what I like to call "Oh fuck" moments, straight from the soul of a townie.
It's paranoid, it's sprung pretty early, it seems to be more like asking an opinion then pushing a wagon along...
God, I wish I could laminate this post and hang it up on my wall because I like seeing reminders of EASY TO READ TOWN.

[Nachomamma8]

MY BUDDY ANTB WHO YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE REALIZED MY CASE BY NOW BUT APPARENTLY FARSIDE STILL DOESN'T:

I'm not going through the ISO again. Not most of it, anyways. But I will be pointing out a few exceptionally scummy things.

1) The trash case on brokenscraps
And no, it's not just the fact that he presented a terrible case, everyone does that *cough farside cough*. But it's the fact that he pressed it so hard, and as soon as he starts to catch crap for it (1, 2), guess what happens?

in fact, seeing as I am scum either way.
UNVOTE: brokenscraps
VOTE: andrew94
Still not justified his vote on me and has missed the question multiple times, as well as chainsawing me and pretty much labelling me as scum no matter what I do.

LOOK AT ANTB SQUIRM UNDER PRESSURE.
SEEMS LIKE AN AWFULLY CONVENTENT TIME TO DROP THE BROKENSCRAPS CASE...

Now it's time for BONUS POINTS.
Guess how AntB decides to defend himself from this newfound pressure?

I don't see what the fuss is on D1... half the point is to gather information, right? You really think I would actively push so hard for a lynch, so early?

PRINCESS BRIDE LOOKIN BOY

2) He defends himself with meta and then accuses me of using a meta case
Before we begin, we need to compile some evidence.

Meta as I've come to know the description is an overview of a players general playstyle.

Excellent. Now, let's move on. Here is my initial attack:

As to why AntB doesn't believe what he says, refer to #175. The first quote is him saying his scumdar was pinged quite badly, and that brokenscraps's case "failed". And yet, no vote. This shows that his scumdar wasn't pinged that badly, since when people find scum, they put a vote along with their suspicions.

Is this an overview of a players general playstyle? No. So, we can classify this according to AntB's definition of meta to be a nonmeta attack.

Now, we move to AntB's rebuttal:

I'm not "people". I'm AntB. I play how I play, not how people such as yourself expect me to play. When I believe I've found scum I hunt around looking for potential connections. Using peoples reactions at this point can provide me with reads later on.

Holy smoked artichokes, Batman! This seems to me to be an overview of a player's general playstyle! So, according to AntB's definition of meta, this is a meta defense! Let's look at my attack...

I checked your newbie game, and you voted when you had suspicions then. You also went through with your suspicions in Hair Trigger Mafia... so is there any meta you have where you refused to vote who you found suspicious?

Okay, fits the definition. According to AntB's definition of meta, this is a meta attack! How will AntB respond to this attack?

Oh look, meta-case. If you look at my other games, both completed and on-going I think you'll find it hard to establish a solid meta.

Ladies and gentleman, based on everything that's occured so far, I believe the conclusion to be drawn at this point is obvious. However, for your benefit, this conclusion will be reiterated at the end of this post.

BONUS ROUND? AGAIN?

You infer a general meta which applies to all players, expecting me to fit in with it and begin pushing a case based on non-conformity to said meta meta.

A general meta which applies to all playes...
Golly gee, that sounds a lot like the definition of a scumtell >.>

Oh yeah, I promised to reiterate that conclusion.
ANTB IS SCUM.

[Nachomamma8]

Gimmie a second I got a little case of ADD and am catching up a little in another game.

[Nachomamma8]

ADD IS OVER.

Farside, I will be theorizing with you after all of this is done.

I need an answer to this, please. Be as blunt as you can, even if you think it doesn't make you look pro-town.

Oh. That was me being snarky to farside.

[Nachomamma8]

AHA! Found something in Archer's ISO!

And yes, I know I'll be questioned about jumping on the popular wagon, and trying to score town points should nacho flip scum, etc.

TOWN

[Nachomamma8]

Batt/Jesse:

On a reread, Jesse isn't as scummy as I thought he was. He does make some effort to scumhunt, after all. His debate with AntB at the beginning makes me somewhat doubt the Batt lynch, but he does drop it pretty early, so I'm not really that sure about this. The two posts he made on the 17th I don't really like either; at that point, he hadn't posted in two days and it seemed like he was just dodging prods.

Batt's entrance post seems very opportunistic to me. He's just picking out things he sees, and declaring town or scum with absolutely no reasoning whatsoever. Then, there's this:

When you replace in and quickly call the leading lynch town, I find that scummy.

...which he says although the very first thing he did was chainsaw defend the leading lynch in LW2.

Voting to lynch based on "information" is pretty damn weak, considering you get more information whenever another lynchwagon forms. I also don't remember Batt as the type to be willing to lynch solely for information, so this is out of character for him.

I don't like Batt making the mistakes he's made {ISO 3, 4}. His constant backtracking is extremely scummy to me, and I seriously don't think town would have that much difficulty keeping their words straight.

In the nacho-town scenerio- I will prove it by not voting Smashbro, and defending his actions as smashbro-scum wouldn't post xxx about a townie who was close to lynch (Like I've said before) and I would vote DP and say that DP-scum would do xxx because he knew Nacho was town.

I don't know what answer you want to what if DP flips town. What if anyone you ever suspected and voted for flip town? If you mean about lynching Nacho to get to there and both he and DP flip town, I won't be torn up about it. Nacho's obviously would have done scummy things to get 6 other people to vote him, and he's given the town information (Having a strong town tell on someone is helpful). If you would lynch me if Nacho and DP flip town, I can't stop you. But I won't be upset about it as long as you read back my posts after I flip and agree that Smashbro would be town.

This is also scummy to me. Before, Batt talked about how smashbro being town was probable if I flipped town, and not for sure. Here, he acts like it's for sure. The whole "If you want to lynch me, I can't stop you. Just remember that Smashbro is town." is also sketchy to me; it seems too much like the AntB selfhammer situation, where he wants to look more town by saying that he's willing to sacifice himself for the good of the town. I feel like if he was as confident about David Parker as he says he is, then he would recalibrate his reads after he flipped scum after a me-townflip.

Finally, it's scummy that that's all of the conclusions he's come to this game. He seems happy with the original ones he's drawn, and is making absolutely no effort whatsoever to form new ones, or gain more information.

[Nachomamma8]

drmy/Bella:

There's only two things special about drmy. First off, he found BOTH AntB and me to be scum, and he wanted an andrew policy lynch. Now, if he still believed in the andrew policy lynch (as he stated in #11), I don't see town-drmy relenting and forgetting about it. The "AntB or Nacho is scum, but nacho is goon and AntB is jailkeeper" comment is weird to me, but it's giving me a slight town-read at the moment. Shotty isn't sophisticated enough of a scumplayer to fish for PRs based on reactions, so I think he'd just vote the person he thought was jailkeeper as opposed to just announcing it. I doubt it's a declaration to scumbuddies as well since I don't think he was planning on replacing out at that point.

Bella's reaction to the policy lynch is null. There's no reason to change how you respond to those, regardless of alignment. Although, the fact she was easier on DP than she was on lord_hur, and the fact that DP ended up dropping it so quickly would be a slight DP-Bella buddy tell.

I don't like the delay to provide a scumlist. Waiting until the last moment before deadline prevents the person who the vote falls on from defending themselves at all. I also hate hate HATE the AntB read: "The case against him is strong, but there's my gut's calling him town."

The replacing-in thing makes sense. Her meta seems to confirm it, too; as scum, she gets steamrolled when she replaces in, and as town, she just kinda drifts along for a while.

I like #11, a lot.

AntB's attacks on Bella makes me feel a lot better about her. There's no reason for him to start the distancing dance now when I'm a perfectly acceptable mislynch and before things can be discussed in the quicktopic.

[Nachomamma8]

broken is pretty much confirmed town to me, I won't bother ISOing him.

[Nachomamma8]

Chaotic/lord_hur:

Definitely not buddies with brokenscraps, no matter what. Based on ISO #2. Scum would not be expecting their partner to declare them scum right off the bat. Although, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the paranoid involved in interpreting the comment like that.
Good interactions with AntB, though.

lord_hur has a very strong entrance into the game, has built a variety of cases on a variety of people, and has been instrumental in moving the game forward. I don't understand his want for a policy lynch on Bella, and I don't see why a vote didn't accompany it, but I also don't see scum intent for pushing a policy lynch at that point. Yeah, he's probably town.

[Nachomamma8]

DavidParker:

I like that DP's trying a new replacement style. Town would be likelier to do something like this in my opinion, since it only offers an actual benefit as town. The lack of vote at the end of it all, though, I don't like. I like the rest of his play, though. Scumhunting, not avoiding major issues, probably town. I'd like for him to respond to Bella's vote, though.

[Nachomamma8]

Egg:

Egg is probably the single most useless player in the game thus far. He posts very rarely, and when he does post, he doesn't post anything. He also seems to be intentionally dodging posting, considering that there is a three/four day timespan between all of his posts, save for Iso #1 and Iso #2. If he doesn't replace out soon, he'll need to be taken care of by lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

5/7 on Batt.

[Nachomamma8]

Smash I just saw you down there where's your Batt vote?

[Nachomamma8]

THIS GAME IS CURRENTLY ON PRIORITY MODE

Gotta beat inHim to the punch.

[Nachomamma8]

farside22:

What I like about farside's vote on me is that she never hides it. A lot of her early posting is about her vote on me, and she reminds us that she's holding her vote on me. I don't think scum would be as inclined to do this as town because scum would be more inclined to just let broken-town take the helm with the case on me. I've always regarded farside as a bit of a tunneler, but she's not really doing that here, early game shows her pressuring and giving opinions on lots of different people. Her activity is also a point in her favor; she hasn't been avoiding this game at all. This is also a point for the "avoiding the game is a tell" mindset she's pushing since there's definitely no hypocrisy there. I also like how her vote always seems to come back to me; it's like she tries to give me a chance, but the tunnel instinct kicks in and she just has to vote me again. I don't understand what the "Batt defended himself well" thing is about, though. Her posts on me and Batt also seem pretty damn genuine to me, so I'm calling town for now.

As an aside, she seems incapable of posting the acronym IGMEOY - I've seen a IGYEOY (I've got your eye on you), and IGMYOU (I've got my yams on you) so far...

[Nachomamma8]

Looker hasn't done much this game, so most likely good ol' gut will be responsible for most of the read on him, and that has been leaning town on him, so we're lookin good so far. His position on Egg makes him look pretty good, though.

[Nachomamma8]

SSSS:
Don't like the fencesitting between AntB and me.
Don't like how he doesn't provide any new content after his reread.
Don't like "I know this looks bad, and if it was any other player I would TOTALLY agree with you."
Don't like how he didn't know AntB was a top suspect of mine, especially since his AntB fencesitting fiasco.

Probably scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, so...

Batt/AntB/Smash

Is our scumteam. Sound about right?

[Nachomamma8]

Egg's just playing around .

Good game all.
Bella's analysis was pretty accurate; she just kept going after the wrong people .
I like that posting it every day gives incentive for scum to bus/stay off mislynches, although I wouldn't use it as the centerpiece of any cases.

Looker voting confirmed town then avoiding a partner hungry for the bus was pretty badass, and Magua did a damn good job as a replacement.

lord_hur had a really good game, I think. I was frustrated when you made that doctor slip, and was very happy when you flipped VT.
Regfan was almost spot-on for a while, save for the farside read. I thought he did a pretty good job aswell.

Overall, the town did pretty well, but they were just outplayed in a couple of ways