Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[andrew94]

farside your link links me to this

i kinda see brokenscrap's first point as a way to start conversation. however, the fact that nacho didnt respond to the point makes it sus.

about cn, i now believe he really misread. because if you see his posts, he later said 'i confirmed 4th' which shows that he really misunderstood

???


also, cn replaced out of all his games ( i think)

[Nachomamma8]

PRESIDENT KENNEDY IS TIRED OF FARSIDE'S ANTICS. AS A RESULT, PRESIDENT KENNEDY IS STOPPING THIS.

RE: CONFIRM TELL:
It's weak. What on earth could I be planning in the QT that it takes me FOUR HOURS to plot over? Why wouldn't I confirm beforehand and then make my post in the QT? This isn't a theme game, and it's not that difficult to say "Hi I'm Nacho my experience with players on the playlist is x and I think we should y". Hell, even if my scumpartner had questions for me, it wouldn't take FOUR HOURS to discuss them. What do you think I, as scum, would think not confirming would do, anyways? It only takes 9/13 people to confirm, which is a little more than half. Is there really any tangible advantage in delaying one out of nine confirmations? No. Not at all. It's a good RVS discussion starter, yes, but it's not a real tell.

RE: ROLEFISHING:
I have played with AntB before. He's not a complete failure of a player, and he is smart enough to read through the game, which means that he would read the votecount before he would read my "Ant is at L-1" post. If he was a PR, I'm doubly sure he would question the fact and read the votecount. As town, he wouldn't claim ANYTHING after that post. And thanks to AntB being a little prone to OMGUS at times, I'm pretty sure he would've called me scum based off it.

RE: AntB
farside, I'm voting AntB because he doesn't believe anything he's saying. Read all of his posts, and you'll see that the people he's ever called scum were "2/3 of [his] wagon", which doesn't refer to anyone in particular. He votes brokenscraps for trying to cover up a slip, not for being scum, he hasn't explained why he's voting me. And no, this isn't a "quirk" of his. Then, of course, there's how he responds to me tricking him. He doesn't call me out for rolefishing. It doesn't set off his scumdar at all. Last time I played with this guy, he SUICIDE BOMBED a guy for voting him and not explaining. So the fact that this doesn't sit strange with him and know DAMN well he's prone to OMGUS, well, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[JesseSheffield]

So now covering up a slip isn't serious...

sure whatever.

The italics would be the defiant part. Refusal to acknowledge something which has been stated to me.

Oh, you mean the unnecessary attitude? I suppose you can categorize it as "defiant", although that's a little bit rich of a word to use for a snarly little side comment.

I half agree with Egg though. Meaning I don't believe in half-jokes but not for the reasons Egg threw out there. I think anybody stating that they're "slightly serious" or they "kind of" agree or are "pretty sure" are all just cop-outs. Ways to excuse themselves if they get attacked over it.

And for the record, I agree with this-

RE: CONFIRM TELL:
It's weak. What on earth could I be planning in the QT that it takes me FOUR HOURS to plot over? Why wouldn't I confirm beforehand and then make my post in the QT? This isn't a theme game, and it's not that difficult to say "Hi I'm Nacho my experience with players on the playlist is x and I think we should y". Hell, even if my scumpartner had questions for me, it wouldn't take FOUR HOURS to discuss them. What do you think I, as scum, would think not confirming would do, anyways? It only takes 9/13 people to confirm, which is a little more than half. Is there really any tangible advantage in delaying one out of nine confirmations? No. Not at all. It's a good RVS discussion starter, yes, but it's not a real tell.

[inHimshallibe]

:lies:

[AntB]

@Nachomamma8
You played ONE game with me, and if you really want to go build meta on me, instead of looking at posts in general, go through to games I've played (it's all on the wiki). All you'll find afaik is that I have a variable playstyle. The only consistency being, I like OMGUS... What can I say, I like the scum to jump at me, and I like to attack my attackers...

It doesn't set off his scumdar at all

[sarcasm] Because I always announce every suspicion I have... [/sarcasm]

he doesn't believe anything he's saying

Seeing as you like meta, that also seems to be a trait I seem to have...

The 2/3rds comment is an admittedly wildcard accusation, but it's there to provoke a reaction, which it did. Also, it's a lot better than "Vote, L-1, even though its not".

My vote reasons are (incase you missed them):

For this. The reaction.

lol? Surely there's enough reaction from me on previous 4 pages to go on without fishing for more?

-AND-

@broken
Agreed.

referring to:

For this. The reaction.

people say
You said someone was at L-1 to get a reaction... rolefishing much?

Unvote: AntB
Vote: Nacho

The wagon needs to stay here.

Now your case on me seems to be

heavily

based on meta, am I

really

that much of a threat to you?

--

I hope at some point we both get a game as scum... You'll enjoy reading my meta from that...

[Nachomamma8]

You played ONE game with me, and if you really want to go build meta on me, instead of looking at posts in general, go through to games I've played (it's all on the wiki). All you'll find afaik is that I have a variable playstyle. The only consistency being, I like OMGUS... What can I say, I like the scum to jump at me, and I like to attack my attackers...

The only things I used to conclude from your meta is that you're not a fucking terrible player, and that you're prone to OMGUS. Since you just confirmed the second and I'm hoping that you don't think you're a fucking terrible player, I'm pretty sure both of those conclusions are true.

[sarcasm] Because I always announce every suspicion I have... [/sarcasm]

Yes, because you were TOTALLY just witholding your suspicion of me there. You weren't waiting for someone to come along and make the case on me for you...

lol? Surely there's enough reaction from me on previous 4 pages to go on without fishing for more?

This doesn't qualify as a reason.

Now your case on me seems to be heavily based on meta, am I really that much of a threat to you?

1) See top of post.
2) Yes.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (4)

- farside22, brokenscraps, AntB, drmyshottyizsik

AntB (3)

- andrew94, Chaotic Neutrality, Nachomamma8

Egg (1)

- Archer

Yet to vote (5): JesseSheffield, MidnightHike, Egg, slMagnvox, smashbro_of_the_SSS
================================================================

Seeking Replacement:

Chaotic Neutrality

Prodding:

Archer, slMagnvox

Has been busy, will try and post soon:

MidnightHike

[Nachomamma8]

:lies:

Well, this isn't anything new.

-----------------
No comment. >.>

[AntB]

Only scum would see me as a threat.. while true I'm not completely terrible, I'm not exactly much good either.

Players who shout their suspicions can be good for the town, but as there isn't that much shouting I kept quiet. Shouters get NKd if they get close to the mark and abused if not.

I'll clarify that reason for you:
You've thrown 4 pages of "reactions" to one side and went for broke, going for another reaction by faking putting me a L-1, now if that's a gambit, that's risky as hell, and I don't see any potential benefit from it, apart from forcing a mislynch.

P-EDIT:
lol @ :lies:

[Nachomamma8]

I'll clarify that reason for you:
You've thrown 4 pages of "reactions" to one side and went for broke, going for another reaction by faking putting me a L-1, now if that's a gambit, that's risky as hell, and I don't see any potential benefit from it, apart from forcing a mislynch.

I haven't thrown 4 pages of reactions to one side. 4 pages certainly isn't enough to determine alignment. The gambit would be riskier if there wasn't a votecount right above me and if I didn't read your games.

[Nachomamma8]

Only scum would see me as a threat..

while true I'm not completely terrible, I'm not exactly much good either.

Explain this. If I see you as scum, I see you as a threat to the town.

[Archer]

Gah, really did not expect things to develop so quickly. I will make a proper effort to be more involved.

Archer, why are you giving all of these scum points, yet your vote continues to be on "the only one with a three letter name".

Because you had still not made an appearance at that stage. And when you finally did make an appearance you failed to answer my question, and you throw out questions everywhere, perhaps an attempt to find out who the town want to go after, and simply jump in with the crowd? Thats my feeling anyway.

Archer - Archer has added little to nothing of the convo. Why is AntB sticking to something scummy? Why keep a vote on a random vote at this point if you reread the game? As for the inactive comment well pot you are the kettle calling them out.

As I said, really didnt expect the game to pick up so fast. The AntB saga, I think the whole chainsaw thing is pushing it. Of course there are times when it has merit, but so early D1 I dont think so. The fact that he has refused to back down raises some flags. But at the same time, I know I wouldnt push that hard as scum. The random vote for Egg has now turned to a proper vote until I'm convinced someone else is more scummy, or that Egg is town.

And after all that more posts popped up, sigh. BUT!...

Players who shout their suspicions can be good for the town, but as there isn't that much shouting I kept quiet. Shouters get NKd if they get close to the mark and abused if not.

The last post from AntB has got bells ringing for me! Sounds like he is afraid to die, but as a townie, I dont care if I die as long as I have made my suspicions clear and the remaining townies can carry on... I actually think coupled with the rest thats reason enough for my vote

VOTE: AntB

[AntB]

@Nacho
I said me as a threat to you. Not me as a threat to town or scum... Don't try to read what isn't there...

@Archer
I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

[Archer]

Thats a really poor defence. There are a few reasons why you would not want to draw attention to yourself as a townie but you have gone for the self pity defence which is not good at all. My vote is going to stick for now. Also your post seems wrong somehow. First, you say you'll self hammer. Next you say that action would help scum. Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh). Really really confused. ACtually, the more I think about it the more it actually reads as a slip -

and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies.

[andrew94]

i sense archer bussing

[AntB]

I sense archer not reading properly... time to unzip methinks.

There's no self pity intended in my post. Self-preservation, maybe. Possibly even survivalist...
You appear to have missed the part where scum will take shouters for an easy ride when their wrong...

Also your post seems wrong somehow. First, you say you'll self hammer. Next you say that action would help scum. Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh). Really really confused

Lets break it down and try and relieve some of that confusion.

First, you say you'll self hammer.

Only if it will:
(as town) provide information leading to the capture of scum
(as scum) throw the town of the trail of my scum buddies.

Next you say that action would help scum.

No I don't.

Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh).

Who's alignment can you get a good feel on when I flip town from lynching? Answer: No-ones.
So, lynching me right now will provide no information beyond my alignment and won't give anything else useful. Apart from, possibly a slight shift in peoples read on Nachomamma8.

[farside22]

farside your link links me to this

i kinda see brokenscrap's first point as a way to start conversation. however, the fact that nacho didnt respond to the point makes it sus.

about cn, i now believe he really misread. because if you see his posts, he later said 'i confirmed 4th' which shows that he really misunderstood

???


also, cn replaced out of all his games ( i think)

yes and my question was why was it understandable (before CN requested replacement) for CN to misunderstand and stand by his view but AntB is scummy for the same?

[farside22]

RE: AntB
farside, I'm voting AntB because he doesn't believe anything he's saying. Read all of his posts, and you'll see that the people he's ever called scum were "2/3 of [his] wagon", which doesn't refer to anyone in particular. He votes brokenscraps for trying to cover up a slip, not for being scum, he hasn't explained why he's voting me. And no, this isn't a "quirk" of his. Then, of course, there's how he responds to me tricking him. He doesn't call me out for rolefishing. It doesn't set off his scumdar at all. Last time I played with this guy, he SUICIDE BOMBED a guy for voting him and not explaining. So the fact that this doesn't sit strange with him and know DAMN well he's prone to OMGUS, well, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

How do you know he doesn't believe what he is saying?
I get what you are saying about 2/3 comment and his vote on you is leaning on more careful which is scummy.
I know scum sit and wait more. Broken was the one who brought up the rolefishing first, which AntB then jumps on and votes for nacho.

@AntB: Why is nacho scum? Give many reason's

[Archer]

AntB - you addressed every point I made in my last post, except for the part where I highlight what I see as a scum slip. Why is that?

I sense archer not reading properly... time to unzip methinks.

Whats up with the veiled insult? No need for that surely?

Also your post seems wrong somehow. First, you say you'll self hammer. Next you say that action would help scum. Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh). Really really confused

First, you say you'll self hammer.
Only if it will:
(as town) provide information leading to the capture of scum

(as scum) throw the town of the trail of my scum buddies.

Next you say that action would help scum.
No I don't.

Note how the highlighted parts contradict each other, which is what I was pointing out earlier. You managed to contradict yourself twice in the exact same way! You admit a self hammer could help scum, and one sentence later say a self hammer would not help scum.

@andrew94 - Yes, it could be bussing, or as scum hunting. Any particular reason you think its the former? I like it when people give reasons - it means they are willing to risk something. And I suspect people who do not give reasons, since those people give themselves an easy out when nobody agrees, and an easy in when someone else provides the reasons.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Again guys, sorry I haven't been on, but I haven't had much time on the computer recently. Hopefully I can actually start posting a decent amount when i get back up to school tomorrow.


In the meantime, I'm not sure between Nacho and antB, I'll have to read through again. It seems pretty weird that Nacho called for a claim, because it really did seem to be rolefishing.


Nacho:

RE: ROLEFISHING:
I have played with AntB before. He's not a complete failure of a player, and he is smart enough to read through the game, which means that he would read the votecount before he would read my "Ant is at L-1" post. If he was a PR, I'm doubly sure he would question the fact and read the votecount. As town, he wouldn't claim ANYTHING after that post. And thanks to AntB being a little prone to OMGUS at times, I'm pretty sure he would've called me scum based off it.

The only things I used to conclude from your meta is that you're not a fucking terrible player, and that you're prone to OMGUS. Since you just confirmed the second and I'm hoping that you don't think you're a fucking terrible player, I'm pretty sure both of those conclusions are true.

These two seem a bit contradictory to me. If you say you can only conclude he's not a terrible player, how can you conclude how he will react to being at L-1?

So on the issue of those two, I would say I'm leaning Nacho, but before I vote either, I'm going to reread the game.


@Egg

When I said semi-serious, I would still say it wasn't serious. I usually random vote for the second person on the second wagon, under the thinking that scum will feel better about joining a wagon after someone else has, hence, creating a second wagon. It's by no means a reliable tell, I don't even know if it is a good one, but I usually like to use that reason. So I would say not serious.



however, someone how seems to have blended in very well has been shotty. He usually speaks his mind, and if he thinks someone is scummy he will push until his mind is changed, or the person dies. He hasn't been very active in this game at all, which I find pretty weird, but also the jump on the Nacho wagon seems very opportunistic, and trying to look townie. He hasn't done much on his own, in the way of scumhunting, and just in general he seems to be unusually quiet.

vote: shotty

, and when i come on in the next couple days, I'll probably move to either nacho or antB. Still, shotty is near the top of my list.

[andrew94]

farside your link links me to this

i kinda see brokenscrap's first point as a way to start conversation. however, the fact that nacho didnt respond to the point makes it sus.

about cn, i now believe he really misread. because if you see his posts, he later said 'i confirmed 4th' which shows that he really misunderstood

???


also, cn replaced out of all his games ( i think)

yes and my question was why was it understandable (before CN requested replacement) for CN to misunderstand and stand by his view but AntB is scummy for the same?

huh? cn made a comment that he confirmed 4th(not2nd) so he really did misunderstand but antb just made up a fail reason to vote broken

[AntB]

@Archer
No insult intended. I am sorry if you believe I have insulted you.
You are looking too hard to find evidence of scum that your missing the point where I said it could help town. This answers both the contradiction and my supposed slip.

@Farsight

Broken was the one who brought up the rolefishing first, which AntB then jumps on

I had not actually considered the possibility of role fishing but was more concerned with the lie of me being at L-1 in an attempt to force a slip.

antb just made up a fail reason to vote broken

I trying to gain information, as I have said before had it not been for andrew94s vote without reason on me I would have moved on quickly. That vote made me believe there was something being hidden and I believed it needed to be extracted.

@All
Nobody else bothered andrew94 seems to be a bit too conservative about giving any reasons for anything?

[drmyshottyizsik]

I still think an Andrew PL is what is need, but other than that Ant or Nacho is scum, nacho just reacks of goon and Ant seems like a jail keeper to me

[JesseSheffield]

vote: shotty

, and when i come on in the next couple days, I'll probably move to either nacho or antB. Still, shotty is near the top of my list.

That's a total cop-out. Leaves you the ability to inexplicably switch your vote without having to give my reasoning or backing behind it.

[Archer]

Nobody else bothered andrew94 seems to be a bit too conservative about giving any reasons for anything?

I noticed and bothered And I have not yet had a reply on the matter from Andrew94, completely ignoted my question. Care to comment now Andrew94?