Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[Doombunny9]

Four more pages to go through... Well... Here I go... (Skipping/skimming walls for the time being so if I miss anything important in them please point them out)

Bunny, I was referring to the unvoting comment, which has since been corrected. Im not paying Attention to Margaret right now either.

Well that's two out of four people you called scummy down... Two more you have to explain (It really shouldn't be this hard to get cases out of you)

Again, very focused on Nexus and although his explanations weren't the best and the "Die scum" comment was dumb in his first vote I really don't think there's a strong enough case to be so focused on.

You're saying that voting Umbrage for bullshit reasons (And keeping that vote until he replaced without giving anything new), posting without giving anything new to go on, only talking about things that are related to him etc. isn't scummy enough for you? And that he's just "not the best"?

You also rubbished IS's theory that one of the mid-active posters is likely to be scum because there was no explanation behind it. While there wasn't an explanation it is still a valid point because a scum tactic is to sit in the pack, not too little and not too much. I saw it in the last game I played so it's definitely a valid claim. For you to instantly rubbish it simply because IS didn't provide detailed reasoning behind his words.

1. If this is his only reason, then it is definately not enough to go on
2. As I stated before, I try to post 3 times a day. The only times I don't is when I'm V/LA or there hasn't been much since my latest post. No matter the amount of activity, I always do this, town and scum.
3. The amount of posts doesn't matter unless you're lurking. Any other time its quality over quantity (For example, which one would you consider to be more "sitting back": Someone who is more of a mid level or borderline lurker that when he does post, posts clear, helpful, lenghty, and contributing posts or someone who posts a lot but posts almost only fluff and pointless stuff)

3b) Policy lynching is only pertinent early game. If you're stuck with the VI late game, you are screwed.
4) your initial reasoning was shit, and you still don't have much going for you other than because I'm attacking the VI (who has scummy actions in addition to playing stupid). The only other scumspect being Umbrage, who you think looks town, so if I were to attack him too, you'd still be calling for my head.

It feels odd that out of IS's points, shadow can only make a defense on 2 of them. Very fishy...

Also, shadow's reasons for voting IS are fishy as well. This is what he has.

1. Not posting for three days-He admits it himself, its understandable as it is the weekend
2. Calling out people for "lurking"-shadow needs to read that post again. It says right there that he's looking at "mid-level" posters, not "low-level" posters.
3. Saying there wasn't anything worth talking about while he was gone-I can see this, some things should have at least deserved a comment
4. Suggesting that we "lynch lurkers"-He said you were spectator scum. Spectator scum =/= lurker scum. Secondly, how is it different from your slipping in and suggesting we "Lynch VIs"?
5. Attacking shadow for attacking CK-Wait, first you say he was doing it as a lurker lynch and now you say IS was doing it because you attacked CK? Make up your mind! Also, you had some pretty poor reasons for attacking CK anyway (i.e. The WIFOM buzzword)

These latest things paired with everything I and other people have said before make me want to

Vote: shadow

I like the Nexus replacement anyway.

[Shadow1psc]

Well, I figure if I'm going to put a vote on someone, I still don't want to lose town. It was my intention (maybe not stated clearly) that it started as PL with intent to either prove why CK was scum, or an extreme enough detriment to town to warrant losing town, and that I was still trying to find things in other people. Reading back through the thread, I realize there was really only content from about 3-4 people anyway, and I started tunneling CK (not purposely, but a feeling of pressure to stick to my guns I guess).

Umbrage is still on my list, especially with his post on me, but IS takes precedent at this point. I skimmed, hard, and just wanted to jump back into the topic instead of analysing (circa yesterday morning). There were some downright stupid walls put forth by Umbrage, and CK's general lack of good posting structure. I remembered IS posting at the beginning (his avatar jumps out at me), and kind of assumed he was contributing. He has not, and makes a case on me for the very things he has done himself. I don't care if you've got a busy weekend, it appears to be the norm of this group of people as it were, but IS just outright stepped in it there.

pre-post-edit @ bunny;

I realize he said mid level posters, but there isn't much a difference from me saying once on saturday/sunday that I'm busy, and him just not posting at all. Same content level of posting, and this goes about the same for you and Nero.

[Internet Stranger]

What Bunny is saying is that despite your weekend excuse, despite your nonchalantness and your lack of interest, you still ended up in the mid-level post range. Thats not lurker scum, thats slightly below the radar scum, which is what attracted my attention to you, which in turn lets me take a look at you and determine youre scum.

I know the popular style in this game is to psychoanalyze every syllable uttered in a wall-o-text format, but I dont need to do that to catch scum. I point at who is the scum, if others agree, they vote. If they need a big analysis, they can do it themselves.

(Shadow is scum, lets lynch him)

[Umbrage]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a huge reply to Jedo and now it's gone FUCK!

Anyway, a few things I want to clear up:

1: My post on Shadow was in the works for a long time, and I wasn't keeping up with the thread properly. I didn't realize until afterward that a lot of what I said had already been pointed out.
2: When someone makes a case on me, I feel responsible to respond to each point. I think this is the basis for the 'won't admit he's scummy' arguments made against me. It's a difference in play style, that's all.
3: I've been accused of contradiction a lot, and the only thing I see that could be construed as that is the MC debate. I was for the MC for one reason, that became weak when compared with the mounting evidence against an MC. I do not believe that is a contradiction, at least it wasn't in my mind.

My favourite lynch is still CK3. I will settle for a lynch of Shadow, Internet Stranger, or Jedo.

Request votecount!

[Shadow1psc]

That's BS. 3 posts constitutes mid-level? Because I was gone by page 2, about the same time you were. If you're gonna call anyone out for lurky activity, my point is that you're closer to lurky than anyone, as you clearly read enough to know who was 'mid level posting' and did no posting or contributing yourself. You're full of it.

[PranaDevil]

Nero Cain has been prodded

[Umbrage]

Chesskid.

You are trying to convince us to vote for smargaret because we this Umbrage is scum and he hasn't gone after her.

But you yourself think Umbrage is town, therefore you negate your own argument.

smargaret is on my radar, but I'm not going to be pushed onto a wagon by you with flawed logic.

I think smargaret is scum and umbrage is town yes
but whatever logic I can use to get more smargaret votes I will use.
I see nohting wrong with that

I can't believe this post hasn't made a bigger stink. Could you get any MORE scummy?

[smargaret]

I actually haven't seen anything from chesskid about WHY he thinks I'm scummy, just that he does. As in, he's never posted a case against me, and it's kind of baffling why not, since he seems so desperate to get a wagon going on me.

Bristep: The position on a scale from one to ten thing is something I do in most games because my brain just works quantitatively like that. I don't really see the difference between saying you're at a 7/10 and saying I have a slight scumread on you (which, by the way, I don't any more - between Nexus being ill and your recent posts, you're less scummy than you were earlier).

Everyone: I live in the northeast, in a building that loses power if you look at it funny. We have a blizzard warning tomorrow. If I'm not online tomorrow, that's why. And I would also like a votecount, please.

[PranaDevil]

Ask and ye shall recieve ship mates.

Vote Count:

Umbrage (2) - Jedo the Jedi, bristep123
chesskid3 (3) - Nero Cain, Umbrage, smargaret
Shadow1psc (2) - Internet Stranger, AurorusVox, Doombunny9
smargaret (1) - chesskid3
Internet Stranger (1) - Shadow1psc

Not Voting:

JoanBud, Liar

With 12 alive it takes 7 to make someone walk the plank!

Day phase will end at

2pm GMT on Friday January 21st

[Internet Stranger]

CK: 64 posts
Umbrage: 51 posts
Vox: 22 posts
Liar: 18 posts
Nexus: 16 posts

Shadow: 13 posts

Nero Cain: 11 posts (all of them in some way related to PL on CK, but that's besides the point)
Doombunny: 9 posts
Smargret: 8 posts
Jedo: 3 posts
IS: 2 posts
Joan: 1 post

who sees the problem?

Clearly Shadow is being evasive. I never said 3 posts. I never said lurkerhunting. Again, its mid-level posting. And you were right in the middle. Why do you keep hankering on that point and nothing else? (Hint: Its because Shadow is scum).

[Doombunny9]

IS still not posting any reasons on me+cain other than that we're mid-level posters...You know what? Why am I even trying? It's obvious that he's not going to answer and he's basically lost any and all chances to lose the scumpoints he gained from refusing to answer. I'm done

Vote Count:
Umbrage (2) - Jedo the Jedi, bristep123
chesskid3 (3) - Nero Cain, Umbrage, smargaret
Shadow1psc (2) - Internet Stranger, AurorusVox
smargaret (1) - chesskid3
Internet Stranger (1) - Shadow1psc

Not Voting:
JoanBud, Liar, Doombunny9

As of post 425 Doombunny is voting shadow (Hay look gusy! I'm the third on a wagon!)

[Shadow1psc]

CK: 64 posts
Umbrage: 51 posts
Vox: 22 posts
Liar: 18 posts
Nexus: 16 posts

Shadow: 13 posts

Nero Cain: 11 posts (all of them in some way related to PL on CK, but that's besides the point)
Doombunny: 9 posts
Smargret: 8 posts
Jedo: 3 posts
IS: 2 posts
Joan: 1 post

who sees the problem?

Clearly Shadow is being evasive. I never said 3 posts. I never said lurkerhunting. Again, its mid-level posting. And you were right in the middle. Why do you keep hankering on that point and nothing else? (Hint: Its because Shadow is scum).

I made 10 posts from the start of the topic 'til about noon on Friday, mostly RVS. I made 3 posts thereafter. That still doesn't make me feel any better about the fact that you only posted 2 therein. You're basically saying it's ok to lurk for 3 days, but it's not ok to post a couple times in that same period. You also ignore the fact that basically, anyone who wasn't Umbrage or CK was in the same realm of post count if that's all you're going on, because if you're talking about post

content

then again, that just means you were sitting there and lurking while everyone else 'mid level' was at least trying to get a post in. Jedo outright said the same thing I did (though his post was a good one). I'm not being evasive, your point is moot, and then you decided to follow it for another moot reason (I attacked CK, which i'm also not the only one to do, I just did it more vehemently than others for reasons stated).

[chesskid3]

bleh
no smargaret support?

Unvote

Vote: shadow

[Shadow1psc]

UNHAND ME

I am

Captain Jack Sparrow, pirate

. Yes, I realize meta-ing whether or not that could possibly mean I'm town or scum is partly useless. I bread crumbed it (blah blah, only scum breadcrum), but if you're gonna follow IS, and continue to lynch me, you'll know what to do come sunrise. Here's two things you can surmise for certain, though;

1) Captain Jack Sparrow is most assuredly in the game. You can meta yourself in circles all you want over a safe list, I don't care. WIFOM yourselves to death.
2) If you lynch me now, I will come back more powerful than you can... wait, wrong theme. If you lynch me, you need to take a real hard look at just how much bullcrap IS has pulled. CK is an idiot, maybe worth looking into. Umbrage is quick to jump on my wagon and derail any possible lynch on himself, also needs looking into. Doombunny is the most town looking person on my lynch, and I'm ok with that.

[chesskid3]

SO
I'm WILL TURNER
DIE

[chesskid3]

MASSNAMECLAIM GOGOGOGO

[Shadow1psc]

God damnit chesskid -_-

[chesskid3]

God damnit chesskid -_-

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote: Smargaret

claiming at l-3 is a towntell yo

[bristep123]

Four more pages to go through... Well... Here I go... (Skipping/skimming walls for the time being so if I miss anything important in them please point them out)

Again, very focused on Nexus and although his explanations weren't the best and the "Die scum" comment was dumb in his first vote I really don't think there's a strong enough case to be so focused on.

You're saying that voting Umbrage for bullshit reasons (And keeping that vote until he replaced without giving anything new), posting without giving anything new to go on, only talking about things that are related to him etc. isn't scummy enough for you? And that he's just "not the best"?

You also rubbished IS's theory that one of the mid-active posters is likely to be scum because there was no explanation behind it. While there wasn't an explanation it is still a valid point because a scum tactic is to sit in the pack, not too little and not too much. I saw it in the last game I played so it's definitely a valid claim. For you to instantly rubbish it simply because IS didn't provide detailed reasoning behind his words.

1. If this is his only reason, then it is definately not enough to go on
2. As I stated before, I try to post 3 times a day. The only times I don't is when I'm V/LA or there hasn't been much since my latest post. No matter the amount of activity, I always do this, town and scum.
3. The amount of posts doesn't matter unless you're lurking. Any other time its quality over quantity (For example, which one would you consider to be more "sitting back": Someone who is more of a mid level or borderline lurker that when he does post, posts clear, helpful, lenghty, and contributing posts or someone who posts a lot but posts almost only fluff and pointless stuff)

First off, yes I do think it wasn't enough to go on. Not to be so focused on him that you ignore the other cases building (or make little reference to them). Remember I can look at your behaviour towards Nexus with a key difference to anyone else. I know that he was a town player. I know that me saying doesn't make it a fact in the scheme of the game, and I wouldn't expect anyone to think I'm town because I've said I am. With that said, I know I'm telling the truth so I know that Nexus's motives, however it looked, came from an honest town place.

Secondly regarding the mid-pack lurker point, you misinterperet what I am saying. I'm not saying "You look scummy because you are sitting in the middle of the pack", I'm saying that I've seen it in another game, mid-pack lurking and it was very successful. IS said that it was likely that someone in mid-pack was a scum lurker, you, Smargaret and shadow were the mid-pack and from that IS has gone after shadow. You say "As I stated before", as if your word should be believed whole-heartedly without being questioned? Just because you say your posting level is due to your own personal preference, doesn't mean that it actually is. It's a question of whether your claim is believed or not. Same as my town claim, it's about the larger opinion of your play with ALL factors considered.

Also @chesskid - Town tells can be used by scum to fool people who are hung up on town tells to trick them into thinking that they are not scum. Since you rarely post your workings, I wanted to throw that in. Irrational logic and flip-flopping will make it harder for you to convince people to lynch the person you think is scum. Tell me, if smargaret claims at L-3 would that make her town as well, since you are so certain she is not?

[chesskid3]

no
that would be scum throwing a fakeclaim down early to look town.

[bristep123]

@Chesskid But when shadow does it, it's a town tell? You can't have it both ways.

[smargaret]

^^ this. I do not understand how chess is drawing these conclusions.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote

Vote: Smargaret

claiming at l-3 is a towntell yo

Orly? Imo claiming early is a scumtell. Or a stupidtell. Shadow's not stupid so.

[Internet Stranger]

I believe that whatever Chesskid is doing is deliberate. So unless he is scum, he will come through for the town in the end anyways. Considering that, his refusal to maintain a vote on Shadow despite all the arguments and the beliefs of others is a lot more suspicious than foolish.

If he was just playing dumb and just waiting to get to lylo, he shouldnt be concerned as much regarding who gets lynched. Its quite possible that them two are a scumteam as someone had theorized.
(Lets lynch Shadow first anyways)