Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[smargaret]

Umbrage, the way you're formatting your posts makes it hard to tell which bits are yours, and impossible to reply to just your responses. Would you consider ending the quote where you feel the need to reply and then re-quoting for the next bit of text please?

I'm not a fan of Shadow asking what happens when he flips town, largely because it sets up WIFOM based on the nightkill. However, since that's only WIFOMy if Shadow actually does flip town (and it would be just to weird to have a death godfather two games in a row), it's anti-town, not scummy.

IS, do you have any reason other than Shadow's activity level/the timing of the nameclaim to suspect him?

[chesskid3]

wow
so I can't call someoen who is obvtown town now?
because OMG IM TRYING TO GET TOWNCRED LOLOLOOLOL

NeroCain is town btw

[smargaret]

chess, how do you get Nero Cain as town from 12 posts with no content?

[chesskid3]

offering to replace out like that
town

[smargaret]

So, even though I bet I already know the answer to this, if I were to offer to replace out ... would I be town?

Is bristep town?

[chesskid3]

no

yes

[bristep123]

It doesn't matter what your thought process was, the post clearly suggested that one of us was scum.

Not one of you, just you. Now you're misrepresenting me.

LOL! You explicitly said that if I flipped town, you'd look at CK3!

Actually no, what he said was that he thought you were scum. He then went onto say that if he was wrong and you flipped town then he would have to look at CK3. You've taken his statement and twisted it to fit your argument, exactly what I've been showing you doing earlier. I like how at the end of your post you demand he SHOWS how you are misrepresenting, yet when he does show you, you ignore it AND DO IT AGAIN IN REPLY!

Show where I misquoted then.

Hasn't this already been done before? Fine. Here is your post:

@ Aurorus Vox:

Are you voting for me simply because I based my support for a mass claim on the reactions of other players?

That's just stupid.

The entire point of an early mass claim is to catch scum off guard.

Terrible.

No, Chesskid.

You don't think that's just a TAD scummy? Not even stopping to consider the benefits?

You did quote one of Shadow's post correctly, but he clarified it

in the very next post

.

And to clarify that, it'd be hard to organize everyone at once, and without that there's no way for anyone to tell what the flavor split is, as scum are just gonna follow the first couple claims' examples.

This is my first theme on this particular site, but do scum get a safelist? And is it common for there to be flavor attached or written by the host for that list? I know different sites have different opinions on this.

And here is the fullness of Nexus' post.

No, Chesskid.

I've played in Prana games before, and his flavour has nothing to do with alignment.

Nexus can certainly clarify this for himself, but I bet what he is saying (since God knows I can't know what other players are thinking) is that it would be unhelpful because we wouldn't know the alignment just by flavour (which he later equates to names). In fact, he's the one who posted this:

I know PranaDevil's theme games. I've played them before. I know that names have no bearing on anything.

Elizabeth Swann was a traitor in the last game he ran. Generally, names make jack difference.

I took the parts of the posts on which I based my suspicions. I was concerned with their original reactions to an MC proposal, not their given reasoning behind said reactions.

Really? Again he shows misrepresentation and you just ignore it. I mean you practically admitted that you took only the parts of the posts which fit your argument. I can understand slightly on Shadow, after all he provided his reasoning in a 2nd post but Nexus gave his reason RIGHT BELOW THE LINE YOU QUOTED. It's misrepresentation and you can try to validate your actions but ultimately it's misrepresentation. People have been calling you out on it and providing the proof you keep demanding and you just keep on refusing to make any admissions.

[AurorusVox]

Why isn't his analysis in context? I see his analysis of Chess as a way to make sense of what Chess is doing.

He didn't apply it to Chess. He just said engaging in meta defence is scummy. He only later went on to qualify it after he'd had pressure from Jedo, and later myself. He didn't show how Chess was using it in a scummy way, just suggested that all instances of meta defence are scumtells. Beyond this, it fits with his flinging buzzwords at Chess to see what sticks, following on from shouting WIFOM at him earlier in the game. It doesn't seem like there's content there, just the appearance of. Yes, we can infer what he means and why its scummy, but he doesn't say this and that's what makes it using a contextless scumtell.

---

Asking who you'd look at upon a Shadow-town flip, if he's legit town, is, as Smargaret says, pretty anti-town. If we all collectively say there's a player we wouldn't suspect, they'd draw the NK, whilst players who are universally suspected will be left alive. If he's scum, his scumteam get a bit more info out of his flip - who we think is town through association, who they need to be wary of tomorrow. So there's no motivation for him to ask as town; and a little motivation to ask as scum.

Refusing to claim is ridiculously anti-town to scummy. Again, noticing that there's no reason not to claim, unless he's scum as Bunny says.

---

Nero Cain: I'm either way towards you replacing or remaining. If you'll have time to offer your opinion on D1 before we get to night, then stay; if you won't but a replacement would, it'd be better to replace out. If your activity is going to be consistently low throughout, I'd prefer replacement, but if it's picking up and we can get a brief look at D1 from you then I don't mind waiting.

[PranaDevil]

Vote Count:

chesskid3 (2) - Nero Cain, smargaret
Shadow1psc (6) - Internet Stranger, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, Umbrage, bristep123, Jedo the Jedi
smargaret (1) - chesskid3
Internet Stranger (1) - Shadow1psc
AurorusVox (1) - Liar

Not Voting:

JoanBud

With 12 alive it takes 7 to make someone walk the plank!

Day phase will end at

2pm GMT on Friday January 21st

As a note, if JoanBud does not post in thread by 6pm GMT I shall begin looking for a replacement.

[Umbrage]

Of course he HAS to say to come after me. Thats the only tactic he has left. It would look useless and even scummier if he went after anyone else.
He even tried playing the martyr card already too.

I dont know what more evidence you need on someone to get them lynched.

This post makes me want to forget Shadow fully and vote you! There's still time in the day. Why are you so impatient?

Regardless of Shadow's flip, I'm going to take a good long look at you tomorrow. You could be lynching your buddy for towncred, I've seen that happen.

[Umbrage]

Actually no, what he said was that he thought you were scum. He then went onto say that if he was wrong and you flipped town then he would have to look at CK3. You've taken his statement and twisted it to fit your argument, exactly what I've been showing you doing earlier. I like how at the end of your post you demand he SHOWS how you are misrepresenting, yet when he does show you, you ignore it AND DO IT AGAIN IN REPLY!

He then went onto say that if he was wrong and you flipped town then he would have to look at CK3.

You explicitly said that if I flipped town, you'd look at CK3!

That's the exact same fucking thing. No misrepresentation. Please stop making me bang my head against the wall, there's a dent in the wall.

Really? Again he shows misrepresentation and you just ignore it. I mean you practically admitted that you took only the parts of the posts which fit your argument. I can understand slightly on Shadow, after all he provided his reasoning in a 2nd post but Nexus gave his reason RIGHT BELOW THE LINE YOU QUOTED. It's misrepresentation and you can try to validate your actions but ultimately it's misrepresentation. People have been calling you out on it and providing the proof you keep demanding and you just keep on refusing to make any admissions.

If you feel that's misrepresentation, I can't convince you otherwise. All I wanted was to show the exact things that bothered me, so I cut out most of Nexus' post to save space and avoid confusion. If you really think that makes me scum, well, I clearly can't change your mind no matter what I say.

[bristep123]

Save space and avoid confusion? 2 lines! What space were you saving? I've seen plenty of evidence, and I've presented it. You've responded, denial and sidestepping in my opinion but anything else now is just arguing the same point into the ground. The posts are there, the rest of the players can take whatever they think from it.

[Umbrage]

Fine I admit I cut out 2 lines of text. If you feel these two lines really take away from my argument, you could've claimed my argument was invalid. But you saw it as a tell? Saying that I intentionally butchered a quote to make some sort of point is ridiculous. Effectively, you are saying that I claimed Nexus made a reaction simply to voice my support for an MC, only to withdraw my support from the MC later on. What part of that makes sense to you?

And I love how when I counter your arguments, you just throw your hands up in the air and try to smear me. Who's sidestepping now?

[bristep123]

Do you love it do you? As I said, There is little to be gained by me repeating the same facts and you repeating the same response. All this has descended to is a "No, I didn't" "Yes you did". I mean do you want to have to keep going over the same information? I don't.

[Shadow1psc]

A lot of this game feels like that Bristep.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Thanks for your assistance, bristep. I have decided to cease responding to Umbrage in this matter. If he somehow manages to convince people of his innocence despite the things we have demonstrated, so be it.

I'm stopping because it has become pointless. Also, I'm aggravated. Look it up in a dictionary if you don't know what I mean.

Asking who you'd look at upon a Shadow-town flip, if he's legit town, is, as Smargaret says, pretty anti-town. If we all collectively say there's a player we wouldn't suspect, they'd draw the NK, whilst players who are universally suspected will be left alive. If he's scum, his scumteam get a bit more info out of his flip - who we think is town through association, who they need to be wary of tomorrow. So there's no motivation for him to ask as town; and a little motivation to ask as scum.

Refusing to claim is ridiculously anti-town to scummy. Again, noticing that there's no reason not to claim, unless he's scum as Bunny says.

Agreed. Shadow, if you want to demonstrate even a shred of townieness at this point, a role claim would be the way to go.

[Shadow1psc]

Fine. As I said, I'm Captain Jack Sparrow. I'm a Vanilla Pirate.

[Umbrage]

If Jack Sparrow is in the game, I doubt he'd be vanilla. This, coupled with Shadow's reluctance to claim makes me feel good about a hammer.

@ Jedo: I think that's a good idea. I trust that the players will see though your hollow case.

[Shadow1psc]

Because name has everything to do with role. We had an entire discussion on this, based around the MC debate, wherein everyone ended up on the side of uselessness. Umbrage

still

pushing scummy.

[Shadow1psc]

You're also ignoring the fact that if I'm not Jack Sparrow, there's a counter. But wait, no one is going to counter because

I'm

Jack Sparrow, and it'd be scum suicide.

[Umbrage]

The things that bug me are:

If Jack Sparrow is in the game, he is likely not a VT. He may not be in the game, and the role is a safeclaim for scum. I think Shadow knows this, so it would make sense that he would claim something that sounded like a PR, by choice or by force, and avoid claiming his role unless needed. The alternative is that Shadow is Sparrow, which means nothing in terms of alignment, but again, scum would be more likely to postpone claiming to keep the illusion they are a PR.

[AurorusVox]

Fine I admit I cut out 2 lines of text.

Why do you cut 2 lines out to save space when you often put your responses inside quotewalls?

Umbrage is once again becoming one to watch.

[Umbrage]

Now who's misrepresenting? I cut out those lines to avoid confusion, so my argument would be clear. I was concerned with clarity, not showing the quotes in their entirety.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I can believe Jack Sparrow is a vanilla townie. I guess it all depends on what the setup is like. If this is a straight PotC setup (which I don't suppose we will know any time soon), Sparrow was definitely not the bad guy in those movies. *shrug* There's only one way to find out...

[bristep123]

I've already said, I'm not PotC based I'm from a video game (and not a PotC video game)